Pedestrian Problems

[PeacefulChaos]

Is this the case everywhere?  Has it always been this way and I'd not noticed it until the past 10 years or so?  Is it worse in some places than others?

 

 

We live in a very small, rural town.  There are a couple small colleges here.  One is in town, one is outside.

 

People - and honestly, yes, they're mostly around campus - do NOT pay attention when they walk.  They step out in front of cars all. the. time.  And I'm not talking a reasonable distance from cars - I'm talking, people having to slam on their brakes in order to *hope* to avoid hitting them.  

 

The pedestrians *are* in crosswalks, but they're still crosswalks that are in the middle of the road with no stop signs or anything else.  

 

Last year someone did actually get hit.  It wasn't too bad, the person in the car had managed to get mostly stopped and basically just bumped into the pedestrian, but still, it's unfortunate.  The thing is, it got some people riled up because they're like, 'People around here aren't paying attention, they don't stop to let me cross in the crosswalk, they are not being pedestrian-friendly, etc, etc.'  And while I see their point, there are so many other things at play here.

First off, I do NOT think it is wise to just walk out in front of cars.  And I'm not exaggerating when I say it happens all the time.  It's a wonder, honestly, that no one was hit before last year, because they're not paying attention, either.  Most of them never even look up, much less pause, before stepping into the road.

DH has had students tell him that if someone hits them, it's *their* (the driver's) fault.  But we're like, 'Do you think you're invincible?'   :svengo:  I'm just floored by this line of thought.  Who gives a flip if it's going to be 'on them' if you're dead or injured?  Seriously?  SERIOUSLY?!

 

We aren't a town with a lot of traffic.  I'll stop for people to cross if they're waiting, a lot of times, especially if there are more cars behind me or if the weather isn't pleasant.  But it's not a requirement - it's common courtesy.  But I've seen people flip off drivers who don't, or yell after them about how 'I'm a pedestrian, you &*(*&(&!!  I have the )(*)(* right of way in the &**(& crosswalk!!'  And I'm just like, seriously?  There are no other cars on the road.  All you had to do is wait 10 seconds for the ONE car to pass.  

Seriously.

 

So does this happen everywhere?  I don't remember anything like this growing up, or when I was in college - but we were a small school so we didn't have roads through campus or around it, anyway (I mean, obviously there were roads around it, but all our parking and everything was located where we didn't have to cross in order to get to class).  Did I just not notice?  

 

 

 

And on another note, do people not learn that they're supposed to NOT wear dark colors if they're out at night walking?   :svengo:  I can't even count the number of times that I've not seen people walking ON THE ROAD because they're wearing black or navy blue.  It just baffles me.  

 

 

I'm just baffled.  It's like people don't have common sense when it comes to this stuff.   :blink:

 

 

 

 

ETA: I forgot to add that now the town has put in these flashing signs that people can push the button on before they cross, so that drivers will see them coming.  I'm not sure if there's a point to them, though, because some people sat out there for a day and watched, and maybe 1 in 50 people actually pushed the button.  So most likely they weren't the ones stepping out in front of cars to begin with - the rest just kept on doing exactly what they'd always done.  So it feels like a waste of $9000 dollars per sign... :rolleyes:

Edited November 21, 2015 by PeacefulChaos

[hjffkj]

I live in a college town and it was such a huge issue at one point they started ticketing students for jaywalking. A lot of people got ticketed before people learned that at certain crosswalks the pedestrian has the right of way, those places are marked very well, and some crosswalks the pedestrian must wait for the little red hand in the light to go away and the walking guy appear.

[hjffkj]

But we still have a problem of idiots runnign across the train tracks before the train crosses because they want to risk their life so they aren't late for class

[Sandragood1]

With our kids we talk about being "dead right." In certain situations you are legally right, it's not your fault if you are injured or killed. But that that fact is cold comfort when you have to spend time broken or are dead. I think it's difficult for young people to grasp.

[zimom]

I can't tell you the number of pedestrians hit (and often killed) by cars in my town.  Yes pedestrians might have the right of way some times but pedestrians need to have common sense and give the cars time to see them.  I agree, too many have the frame of mind that the cars have to stop but that way of thinking has caused many of them to become seriously injured and a large percentage of them dead.  

[regentrude]

What is the law? You say they are in crosswalks - here, drivers have to stop when pedestrians approach in a crosswalk. Most don't, not even near schools, which I got to see daily when walking my kids. The only way to get their attention is to step in front of their cars, hoping they eventually learn to obey the law instead of yakking on their phones. My guest would be that pedestrians are simply getting fed up with drivers not taking crosswalks seriously.

Of course, they should still be smart about it and be safe.

 

ETA: As for the pedestrian who did not wait to let the car pass the crosswalk: why did the driver not wait to let the ONE pedestrian pass?

Edited November 21, 2015 by regentrude

[UCF612]

Where I live pedestrians do have the right of way and you are required to stop to let them pass even if you're the only car driving down the road.  BUT it is on BOTH parties to do the right thing.  Drivers should stop but pedestrians need to protect themselves and LOOK first!  Make sure the car sees you and is stopping.   Sometimes you don't realize there is a person waiting to cross until you're right up on them because of cars/signs/trees/whatever.  No person should just assume that the driver is paying attention, or knows the law, or sees the person, or or or.   Pretty much a universal rule is to never assume a driver is going to do the legal or expected thing.  

Edited November 21, 2015 by UCF612

[gardenmom5]

if the town wants to stop the behavior - you ticket jaywalkers.  people who don't look before crossing should also be ticketed like a jaywalker.  seattle used to do that - and will occasionally go back to that.

 

they aren't clark kent.  the scene from the original superman movie with christopher reeve where he does just that, and doesn't even notice the cab that hits him (and the cab gets damaged.) is not real life.

 

 

eta: as a pp mentioned. even in crosswalks with walk lights, pedestrians are jaywalkers if they cross against the light.

Edited November 21, 2015 by gardenmom5

[PeacefulChaos]

What is the law? You say they are in crosswalks - here, drivers have to stop when pedestrians approach in a crosswalk. Most don't, not even near schools, which I got to see daily when walking my kids. The only way to get their attention is to step in front of their cars, hoping they eventually learn to obey the law instead of yakking on their phones. My guest would be that pedestrians are simply getting fed up with drivers not taking crosswalks seriously.

Of course, they should still be smart about it and be safe.

 

ETA: As for the pedestrian who did not wait to let the car pass the crosswalk: why did the driver not wait to let the ONE pedestrian pass?

 

That goes both ways, though - why is it so out there (in the pedestrian's mind) to imagine waiting a few seconds for one car to pass?  It's definitely a much shorter time than what the driver would be waiting.

 

 

I see both sides - I really do.  But it's not worth risking one's life over, just to be 'right'.  Wait a few seconds and go when there's not a car coming.  At the very least, look before stepping out into the road.  When we're the pedestrians, I'd much rather know for a fact that we won't get hit than care one way or another about whether or not I have the 'right of way'.  

 

It's never safe to assume that someone else will be the one to do the right thing (not in a safety situation like that, I mean).  

[QueenCat]

What is the law? You say they are in crosswalks - here, drivers have to stop when pedestrians approach in a crosswalk. Most don't, not even near schools, which I got to see daily when walking my kids. The only way to get their attention is to step in front of their cars, hoping they eventually learn to obey the law instead of yakking on their phones. My guest would be that pedestrians are simply getting fed up with drivers not taking crosswalks seriously.

Of course, they should still be smart about it and be safe.

 

ETA: As for the pedestrian who did not wait to let the car pass the crosswalk: why did the driver not wait to let the ONE pedestrian pass?

 

Same here. It is expected that you will slow down enough to see if anyone is even close to enter the crosswalk.

[Hikin' Mama]

I visited my son's college town last weekend and noticed this problem, but with bike riders. Most didn't have lights and they are hard to see at night. Many were riding as if there were no cars on the street; one went through a red light (at night) and I had to stop at my green. I was so glad I saw him. I had a biker whiz past me in the bike lane (at night) when I had had my right blinker on for awhile indicating a turn, as if he was going to race past me before I made the turn. Fortunately I saw him right by the front of my car and could wait for the turn. I did NOT see him approaching in my mirror (no bike light). I absolutely do not want to hit a person! But when I am running or biking, I am extra careful in traffic, because regardless of who has the right of way, I will be the one with the damage to my person should I get hit. I was actually kinda shocked at how people were riding, and I was stressed both nights I was out driving.

 

I went to college in a bike friendly town and don't remember this kind of biking behavior.

[Slache]

This is another reason I shouldn't drive, because I would just hit them. I have no patience for crap like that.

[hjffkj]

That goes both ways, though - why is it so out there (in the pedestrian's mind) to imagine waiting a few seconds for one car to pass? It's definitely a much shorter time than what the driver would be waiting.

 

 

I see both sides - I really do. But it's not worth risking one's life over, just to be 'right'. Wait a few seconds and go when there's not a car coming. At the very least, look before stepping out into the road. When we're the pedestrians, I'd much rather know for a fact that we won't get hit than care one way or another about whether or not I have the 'right of way'.

 

It's never safe to assume that someone else will be the one to do the right thing (not in a safety situation like that, I mean).

Well as a pedestrian who grew up in a college town before they dealt with the situation I will say that you learn the patterns of the town. My town used to be very terrible for pedestrians. Cars would never stop for a pedestrian and that is why people took it upon themselves to just start walking. That forced the cars to follow the law or hit someone. Eventually, it got out of control so the city took measures to reduce the need for anyone to do risky behavior like that. They ticketed jaywalkers, they ticketed people who didn't stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, and they made it very clear who had the right of way with lights and tons of signs.

 

A driver should be aware of pedestrians close to a cross walk and assume they are going to cross soon even if they don't look up. That is a responsibility you take when you accept the privilege of driving on public roads.

[PrincessMommy]

It's become a problem here too.  I think it's because there are more "Pedestrian" laws requiring cars to stop if a pedestrian is in the cross walk.  They are good laws, but the problem is that pedestrians seem to walk right into the crosswalk without even looking first.  I don't know that I'd be so bold.  Someone might not see me, might not know the laws, not care, etc.etc.   Like someone said,  you can be "dead right" but you're still dead.  I would rather wait to make sure the cars are actually stopping before walking into a crosswalk.

 

But, we also have many more people crossing illegally/jaywalking.  I also see a lot of people walking into the street when oncoming traffic has a green light.  The walk signal is clearly RED but they ignore because of one car (me) that they can go faster than.   There's also a lot of people walking down the middle of the aisle in a parking lot, completely obivious to drivers.  And people who drive too fast in parking lots.  It's a deadly combo. 

[UCF612]

I visited my son's college town last weekend and noticed this problem, but with bike riders. Most didn't have lights and they are hard to see at night. Many were riding as if there were no cars on the street; one went through a red light (at night) and I had to stop at my green. I was so glad I saw him. I had a biker whiz past me in the bike lane (at night) when I had had my right blinker on for awhile indicating a turn, as if he was going to race past me before I made the turn. Fortunately I saw him right by the front of my car and could wait for the turn. I did NOT see him approaching in my mirror (no bike light). I absolutely do not want to hit a person! But when I am running or biking, I am extra careful in traffic, because regardless of who has the right of way, I will be the one with the damage to my person should I get hit. I was actually kinda shocked at how people were riding, and I was stressed both nights I was out driving.

 

I went to college in a bike friendly town and don't remember this kind of biking behavior.

 

I've noticed this a lot.  Cyclists who don't follow the rules of the road AT ALL.  It is scary! 

Edited November 21, 2015 by UCF612

[Annie G]

It's a problem in our town. At the hospital there's a crosswalk but people stand there and chit chat and just when you think they aren't going to go, they bolt.  But they stand there for like 30 seconds talking...and don't hit the button that gives me a red light.   

 

I get that pedestrians have the right of way but some seem to be downright aggressive with it- jumping out into the crosswalk just as I'm turning into it. With a Do Not Walk sign flashing. And then they get mad at me. 

 

I value my life way too much to rely that the driver of a 2000 pound car is paying attention to what I'm doing.   

[MEmama]

It's state law here that drivers must stop for pedestrians in crosswalks. It works.

 

State law also dictates that vehicles must give at least 3 feet to cyclists. For the most part, this works too.

 

There has been huge publicity here about these laws and honestly most drivers abide by them. Cars stop as soon as pedestrians even come close to the curb; it's fantastic. Mind you, that's not necessarily the case if there isn't a crosswalk, but pretty well guaranteed if there is. Most walkers wear a headlamp and reflective gear at night; a major local outdoor retailer does a tremendous job raising awareness about night safety which is no doubt a huge influence. As for cyclists, the students can't always be trusted to know and understand the rules but the serious cyclists sure are and I'd say they outnumber the lesser informed bikers.

[albeto.]

Is this the case everywhere?  Has it always been this way and I'd not noticed it until the past 10 years or so?  Is it worse in some places than others?

 

I think different places have different cultures with regard to pedestrian traffic. We have lots of pedestrians and bicyclists where I live, and for the most part, they do follow the rules of the road. By the same token, these rules are made more convenient for pedestrians and bicyclists. In the city I went to college, my friends and I didn't pay attention to cars, figuring we had the right of way. Also, I suspect we just didn't think about it. Being young means you're invincible, and I recall feeling that myself. Now that I drive, my perspective is different. They may have the right of way, but I have multiple hundreds of pounds of steel against a 120-200 pound bag of flesh, held together by bone. Fragile piece of construction, the human body.

 

I'm far more cautious a driver now that I was in an accident and found myself on the losing end. Even though I had the right of way, the driver of the car had more power. I was vulnerable to the laws of physics, and cause and effect being what they are, I got hurt. My husband even more so. Fortunately we're both very much on the mend, but right of way means jack sh*t when you're up against an automobile. Btw, I do lay on my horn now. I don't do it as a means of communicating my anger or frustration, but as a means of snapping someone out of whatever daydream they're in. I also leave myself much more time to travel so I don't feel rushed or distracted when driving. I won't drive tired. An accident can happen at any time, and lives can be changed forever or lost. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by albeto.

[Garga]

I live a bump up the road from Gettysburg.  Gettysburg is a teeny-tiny little town with relatively narrow roads.  And thousands and thousands of tourists descent upon this tiny little town every summer.  Some of the locals here do their best to bypass Gettysburg in tourist season because the pedestrians DO NOT LOOK where they're going.  People on vacation forget basic safety rules and meander across the street right in front of traffic.  You've got to be on the lookout if you're driving in Gburg.

 

I have to admit that when I'm somewhere new on vacation, it feels different to walk around than when I'm walking at home.  Somehow it feels like the rules aren't the same.  It feels as if traffic should stop to let the vacationers through.  People on vacation often don't really know where they're going and they bumble around and hope the cars will be understanding and realize they're not sure where they're going.

[Hikin' Mama]

It's state law here that drivers must stop for pedestrians in crosswalks. It works.

 

State law also dictates that vehicles must give at least 3 feet to cyclists. For the most part, this works too.

 

There has been huge publicity here about these laws and honestly most drivers abide by them. Cars stop as soon as pedestrians even come close to the curb; it's fantastic. Mind you, that's not necessarily the case if there isn't a crosswalk, but pretty well guaranteed if there is. Most walkers wear a headlamp and reflective gear at night; a major local outdoor retailer does a tremendous job raising awareness about night safety which is no doubt a huge influence. As for cyclists, the students can't always be trusted to know and understand the rules but the serious cyclists sure are and I'd say they outnumber the lesser informed bikers.

I'm all for following the law, but when you can't see the bike, it is hard to do so.

[MEmama]

I'm all for following the law, but when you can't see the bike, it is hard to do so.

Right. Thus the need for supporting night safety--lights, reflective clothing and so forth. Does your state have a cycling advocacy group? Perhaps they can be a larger presence in your town. Safety has to be a huge issue, and drivers have to understand it isn't all about them. It goes both ways, for sure.

[Hikin' Mama]

Right. Thus the need for supporting night safety--lights, reflective clothing and so forth. Does your state have a cycling advocacy group? Perhaps they can be a larger presence in your town. Safety has to be a huge issue, and drivers have to understand it isn't all about them. It goes both ways, for sure.

There aren't alot of bike riders in my town. :( The experience I had with bikes this past weekend was actually in another state.

[MEmama]

There aren't alot of bike riders in my town. :( The experience I had with bikes this past weekend was actually in another state.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't reading carefully. Sounds like a scary experience! Yikes! :(

[skimomma]

I live in a small college town as well.  I am on the other side of this argument.   Drivers here do NOT respect the laws for pedestrians.  Part of the problem is that I live in a state and town that does not require drivers to yield to pedestrians in a cross walk unless they are in the crosswalk before the car gets there. That is awfully subjective and almost impossible to prove after the fact.  But we have students who come from all over the country and world....many from areas where traffic comes to a full stop any time anyone sort of even thinks about looking at the crosswalk.  This results in much confusion, hostility, and accidents.  Everyone is "one-upping" each other in risky behavior because both sides think they are right. The cops are oblivious....bigger fish to fry they will tell you.  It makes it very difficult for me to teach my 12 yo how to navigate safely as a pedestrian.  I cannot just tell her the laws and expect all to be well.

 

Our drivers are actually awful and our town has a lot of visible obstacles that make watching for pedestrians hard, even if you want to.  My dh has been hit TWICE in a crosswalk with a WALK signal.  In each case, the driver was turning on a green light (meaning they have to make sure the crosswalk in clear).  Both times, the driver was furious and did not acknowledge their mistake, despite the fact that they just HIT another human with their car.  Luckily, there were witnesses both times.

[TeenagerMom]

My sister was killed as a pedestrian who was hit by a car in the crosswalk.  She was 23 years old.  She followed the law.  She was in the crosswalk on a 4 lane road.  A car in the outer lane stopped for her.  A truck coming down the road swerved AROUND the stopped car and hit my sister in the inside lane.  She lived for 3 days on a ventilator before her brain stem stopped functioning.

 

 

I stop at crosswalks.  Always.  I slow down near them to make sure there isn't a person trying to cross.  That's someone's life.  It doesn't matter to me if I am the only car on the road for 6 miles.  I will stop.  My sister might be alive with children of her own and watching her nieces and nephews grow up if someone else hadn't been in too much of a damn hurry.

[Tanaqui]

I get that pedestrians have the right of way but some seem to be downright aggressive with it- jumping out into the crosswalk just as I'm turning into it. With a Do Not Walk sign flashing. And then they get mad at me.

 

I hate it when cars turn, because they hardly ever stop and lots of times they aren't paying much attention to who might be crossing.

 

But this is a structural issue more than anything else. There's an easy solution that doesn't require retraining drivers OR pedestrians, and that's either a scramble cycle or a variation thereon where you have a short period for pedestrians to cross BEFORE you allow cars to turn. Then people just follow the lights, as they're already accustomed to doing.

 

I'd really like to see that at all intersections with a high volume of pedestrian traffic, at least during rush hours and school drop-off/pick-up times.

[Momofeat]

Just last week I was on campus at our local college coming out of a parking garage into a roundabout that had 4 buses and a UPS truck that was in the process of backing up. Traffic was crazy, and I was being bombarded with things all around me. Apparently a pedestrian wanted to walk in front of me, but I didn't see him until I looked to my right & saw his angry face beside my passenger window. I was partly into the intersection at that point. Thank God he was paying attention and didn't step in front of me! (Or maybe he did & then stepped back?) I'm sorry that I didn't see him in time to let him have the right-of-way, but sometimes drivers simply don't see pedestrians--especially when there's a lot of traffic or they're out of their element, and both of those conditions were true for me at that moment. 

[MEmama]

My sister was killed as a pedestrian who was hit by a car in the crosswalk. She was 23 years old. She followed the law. She was in the crosswalk on a 4 lane road. A car in the outer lane stopped for her. A truck coming down the road swerved AROUND the stopped car and hit my sister in the inside lane. She lived for 3 days on a ventilator before her brain stem stopped functioning.

 

 

I stop at crosswalks. Always. I slow down near them to make sure there isn't a person trying to cross. That's someone's life. It doesn't matter to me if I am the only car on the road for 6 miles. I will stop. My sister might be alive with children of her own and watching her nieces and nephews grow up if someone else hadn't been in too much of a damn hurry.

((Hugs))

 

:(

[albeto.]

I'm so sorry, DrStix.

 

:(

[Caroline]

My sister was killed as a pedestrian who was hit by a car in the crosswalk. She was 23 years old. She followed the law. She was in the crosswalk on a 4 lane road. A car in the outer lane stopped for her. A truck coming down the road swerved AROUND the stopped car and hit my sister in the inside lane. She lived for 3 days on a ventilator before her brain stem stopped functioning.

 

 

I stop at crosswalks. Always. I slow down near them to make sure there isn't a person trying to cross. That's someone's life. It doesn't matter to me if I am the only car on the road for 6 miles. I will stop. My sister might be alive with children of her own and watching her nieces and nephews grow up if someone else hadn't been in too much of a damn hurry.

I am so sorry.

 

My niece wasn't killed, and is at the moment is doing ok, but she was hit by a car last week while crossing in a crosswalk with the light. Someone was in too much of a hurry running left. A four lane road with a boulevard in the middle.

 

Slow down. Let people cross the street. Nowhere you need to get to is more important than someone's life. Even if you think you have the right of way.

[Laura Corin]

That goes both ways, though - why is it so out there (in the pedestrian's mind) to imagine waiting a few seconds for one car to pass?  It's definitely a much shorter time than what the driver would be waiting.

 

 

Zebra crossings here are very serious items.  Drivers watch carefully to see if someone is approaching them, and slow if someone seems likely to cross.  It's wise for pedestrians to look both ways, but many don't and they should be safe on the zebra.  As both a driver and pedestrian, that seems fine to me.

 

Now, pedestrians on phones stepping out into the road outside of a zebra crossing, that's another matter.

 

As I live in a tourist town, I often see a misunderstanding happening: tourists will be standing chatting right next to a crossing.  British children are taught not to do that, as it gives mixed signals to drivers.

[ikslo]

The law here is that the driver must stop and allow a pedestrian in a crosswalk to cross. If the pedestrian is on the sidewalk, waiting, the driver doesnt have to stop. Ime 99% will not. The local police told the ladies walking club to take just one step off the sidewalk, into the crosswalk, and wait for the oncoming vehicles to stop.

That's what I was always taught, too.

[Farrar]

I feel like one of the best things towns can do for pedestrians is make it clear when they can cross and not be stingy with the right of way. Example: For about a year before they fixed it, there was a pedestrian light here that was red for part of the cycle when, in reality, there was zero way to be hit (barring a driver really breaking the law) - it was a one way street with no turn on red. When they had a red, the pedestrians should have had a walk. But they didn't. Instead, it was timed to go with a different, smaller part of the cycle. Well, of course, no one paid it any mind. Everyone just crossed despite the light. Except... that's cruddy because it led to a culture of just wandering out at that light because no one took it seriously. Soon it became a problem for the drivers because they were being blocked when they had the green.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that when pedestrians don't trust the signals to tell them the truth, they jaywalk. Yet I see this in so many places where the pedestrian lights are so much shorter. Sometimes it's to clear turning traffic, but much of the time it seems like it's because they didn't design the system thinking of pedestrian flow. A good intersection will be designed thinking of both.

[Hikin' Mama]

My sister was killed as a pedestrian who was hit by a car in the crosswalk. She was 23 years old. She followed the law. She was in the crosswalk on a 4 lane road. A car in the outer lane stopped for her. A truck coming down the road swerved AROUND the stopped car and hit my sister in the inside lane. She lived for 3 days on a ventilator before her brain stem stopped functioning.

 

 

I stop at crosswalks. Always. I slow down near them to make sure there isn't a person trying to cross. That's someone's life. It doesn't matter to me if I am the only car on the road for 6 miles. I will stop. My sister might be alive with children of her own and watching her nieces and nephews grow up if someone else hadn't been in too much of a damn hurry.

DrStix, I am so sorry for your loss.

[Little Women]

When I was growing up, only in California did pedestrians unquestionably have the right of way. There, many people did cross without looking, and you could generally get away with it, but it still seemed unsafe to me.  When I moved to my current state, most drivers did not think they had any reason to stop for pedestrians, but shortly thereafter there was a lot of publicity about pedestrians having the right of way.   Over the past 20 years, people here have pretty much adopted the CA idea when they are pedestrians, and cross without thinking, but cars sometimes do not.    The worst I've seen here are the teenagers, and they do get hit, a couple times a year.   Most adults do watch before they walk.

 

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah it's a problem here too, but in defense of pedestrians, drivers are very unfriendly towards them in general.  Pedestrians have the right away in most situations, but that is rarely followed.  So I think they just get tired of that and start acting as dumb as the drivers. 

 

 

[Caroline]

My niece was not on her phone when she got hit. Not saying the driver wasn't, though...

[Mergath]

My sister was killed as a pedestrian who was hit by a car in the crosswalk.  She was 23 years old.  She followed the law.  She was in the crosswalk on a 4 lane road.  A car in the outer lane stopped for her.  A truck coming down the road swerved AROUND the stopped car and hit my sister in the inside lane.  She lived for 3 days on a ventilator before her brain stem stopped functioning.

 

 

I stop at crosswalks.  Always.  I slow down near them to make sure there isn't a person trying to cross.  That's someone's life.  It doesn't matter to me if I am the only car on the road for 6 miles.  I will stop.  My sister might be alive with children of her own and watching her nieces and nephews grow up if someone else hadn't been in too much of a damn hurry.

 

I'm so sorry. :(

 

That's happened to me and dd I don't know how many times, where we're trying to cross at a crosswalk and all the other traffic stops but inevitably one asshole swerves around the stopped traffic and almost hits us. I'm always like, really dude??? Do you think all the other cars stopped simultaneously to take in the scenery? OBVIOUSLY there's someone in the crosswalk!  :cursing:

 

I tend to fall on the side of the pedestrians because where I live they have the right of way and it's the drivers who act like idiots and refuse to stop. Not all of them, but enough.

[Farrar]

The last accident I got into was because I stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk. I could have kept going - there was plenty of room. I mean, she was in the crosswalk but on the other side of the road and I was just approaching the crosswalk and it was a very wide road - most people probably would have treated it like a yellow light situation (or not cared) and just kept going instead of trying to stop. The main reason I stopped was that she looked super out of it. I thought she might have been drunk and I extra didn't want to mess with that. The car behind me clearly couldn't believe I had really stopped for this woman and rear ended me. While exchanging info, I spoke to the woman, who was clearly... mentally impaired or on something.

 

I get nervous stopping at big intersections. Once I stopped for someone and then the car behind me whipped into parking lane to go around me, nearly hitting the pedestrian. It was horrible. And I felt horrible because if the guy had been hit, I think I would have felt strangely responsible.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Farrar

[SparklyUnicorn]

The last accident I got into was because I stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk. I could have kept going - there was plenty of room. I mean, she was in the crosswalk but on the other side of the road and I was just approaching the crosswalk and it was a very wide road - most people probably would have treated it like a yellow light situation (or not cared) and just kept going instead of trying to stop. The main reason I stopped was that she looked super out of it. I thought she might have been drunk and I extra didn't want to mess with that. The car behind me clearly couldn't believe I had really stopped for this woman and rear ended me. While exchanging info, I spoke to the woman, who was clearly... mentally impaired or on something.

 

I get nervous stopping at big intersections. Once I stopped for someone and then the car behind me whipped into parking lane to go around me, nearly hitting the pedestrian. It was horrible. And I felt horrible because if the guy had been hit, I think I would have felt strangely responsible.

 

I am often nervous when I stop for a pedestrian because I'm afraid they will get hit in the other lane.  Too many people don't pay attention. 

[Valley Girl]

I'm careful to stop for pedestrians and give cyclists space. However, I am thoroughly fed up with cyclists who think they can coast through stop signs and traffic signals.

[Bluegoat]

Is this the case everywhere?  Has it always been this way and I'd not noticed it until the past 10 years or so?  Is it worse in some places than others?

 

 

We live in a very small, rural town.  There are a couple small colleges here.  One is in town, one is outside.

 

People - and honestly, yes, they're mostly around campus - do NOT pay attention when they walk.  They step out in front of cars all. the. time.  And I'm not talking a reasonable distance from cars - I'm talking, people having to slam on their brakes in order to *hope* to avoid hitting them.  

 

The pedestrians *are* in crosswalks, but they're still crosswalks that are in the middle of the road with no stop signs or anything else.  

 

Last year someone did actually get hit.  It wasn't too bad, the person in the car had managed to get mostly stopped and basically just bumped into the pedestrian, but still, it's unfortunate.  The thing is, it got some people riled up because they're like, 'People around here aren't paying attention, they don't stop to let me cross in the crosswalk, they are not being pedestrian-friendly, etc, etc.'  And while I see their point, there are so many other things at play here.

First off, I do NOT think it is wise to just walk out in front of cars.  And I'm not exaggerating when I say it happens all the time.  It's a wonder, honestly, that no one was hit before last year, because they're not paying attention, either.  Most of them never even look up, much less pause, before stepping into the road.

DH has had students tell him that if someone hits them, it's *their* (the driver's) fault.  But we're like, 'Do you think you're invincible?'   :svengo:  I'm just floored by this line of thought.  Who gives a flip if it's going to be 'on them' if you're dead or injured?  Seriously?  SERIOUSLY?!

 

We aren't a town with a lot of traffic.  I'll stop for people to cross if they're waiting, a lot of times, especially if there are more cars behind me or if the weather isn't pleasant.  But it's not a requirement - it's common courtesy.  But I've seen people flip off drivers who don't, or yell after them about how 'I'm a pedestrian, you &*(*&(&!!  I have the )(*)(* right of way in the &**(& crosswalk!!'  And I'm just like, seriously?  There are no other cars on the road.  All you had to do is wait 10 seconds for the ONE car to pass.  

Seriously.

 

So does this happen everywhere?  I don't remember anything like this growing up, or when I was in college - but we were a small school so we didn't have roads through campus or around it, anyway (I mean, obviously there were roads around it, but all our parking and everything was located where we didn't have to cross in order to get to class).  Did I just not notice?  

 

 

 

And on another note, do people not learn that they're supposed to NOT wear dark colors if they're out at night walking?   :svengo:  I can't even count the number of times that I've not seen people walking ON THE ROAD because they're wearing black or navy blue.  It just baffles me.  

 

 

I'm just baffled.  It's like people don't have common sense when it comes to this stuff.   :blink:

 

 

 

 

ETA: I forgot to add that now the town has put in these flashing signs that people can push the button on before they cross, so that drivers will see them coming.  I'm not sure if there's a point to them, though, because some people sat out there for a day and watched, and maybe 1 in 50 people actually pushed the button.  So most likely they weren't the ones stepping out in front of cars to begin with - the rest just kept on doing exactly what they'd always done.  So it feels like a waste of $9000 dollars per sign... :rolleyes:

 

So, a few things strike me. 

 

I live in a medium sized city, so more traffic and people.  Also - we have had real issues with car-pedestrian issues in the last number of years.

 

I find when I am at the university, the pedestrians are crazy.  I am generally of the view that cars should be limited and pedestrians not so much, but I find students are really very thoughtless.  They don't look out, and they just don't show much courtesy or sometimes even realize the limitations of the driver.

 

And I agreee, if you are dead or even really hurt, who cares if you are right?

 

More generally though, up until recently in NA, and still in many places on this side of the pond, the attitude of city planners has been that cars should be expedited, and pedestrians are worked in around that.  What this has means is that a lot of city infrastructure is designed in such a way that it is actually dangerous or inconvenient for people on foot or on bikes. And sometimes even attempts to make things safer have backfired, like removing trees.  If we are now seeing more walkers, what it may mean is there is a need to turn the tables, or at least give equal consideration to them, and change the traffic set-up in some way. 

 

as far as courtesy - the law here says that if you can stop for a pedestrian to cross, you much, unless you are very close to a cross-walk.  And corners all count a cross-walks too, even if they are not marked.

 

As far as the blinky signs - statistically they work, and as a driver I find them helpful as I don't need to rely so much on my peripheral vision which on wide roads is not always sufficient.  It may get better used over time, but it also may be that there needs to be some sort of encouragement for people to use the lights, like an advertisement campaign.

 

[Bluegoat]

Cyclists are a whole different issue. I wish they would stop putting them on the road with cars, to hell with this bike lane off to the side business. I never bike in my town, but recently I was in another place where the bikes are mostly on separate paths, or when they are on the same roadways they drive on the sidewalks.  I biked a lot and if I lived there I would rather bike than drive, at least in good weather.

 

I don't understand bikers who try and pass me on the inside at intersections - I am always scared I am going to run over one when I am making a right turn.  You can only spend so much time looking behind you, you have to look where you are driving, and bikers can come up so quickly.  We has a girl killed that way last year, she went under an oil truck turning right.

[regentrude]

Cyclists are a whole different issue. I wish they would stop putting them on the road with cars, to hell with this bike lane off to the side business. I never bike in my town, but recently I was in another place where the bikes are mostly on separate paths, or when they are on the same roadways they drive on the sidewalks.  I biked a lot and if I lived there I would rather bike than drive, at least in good weather.

 

These separate bike lanes (not to mention biking on the sidewalk) are actually rather dangerous, because cars making a right turn do not take cyclists who want to go straight and have the right of way seriously.

And on the sidewalk? Most sidewalks do not have an even surface that is conducive to biking at a commute speed - they may be fine for ambling along for a leisure ride, but definitely not for people who use the bike as a means of transportation. Also, there are the pedestrians. Putting bikes on the same sidewalk as pedestrians is a safety issue as well.

 

(DH has been biking to work for 20 years in different states and countries. I commuted by bike before kids when I did not have a car, and I just started recently here now that I no longer have to drive kids.)

Edited November 24, 2015 by regentrude

[Alice]

These separate bike lanes (not to mention biking on the sidewalk) are actually rather dangerous, because cars making a right turn do not take cyclists who want to go straight and have the right of way seriously.

 

 

I actually hit a cyclist this summer in one of those lanes. It was terrifying for me and I'm sure horrible for her, although she wasn't hurt. (I'm sure she was bruised and sore but she wasn't seriously hut.)  I was turning right and had my turn signal on. I turned right from a stop and she tried to pass me on the right. I stopped immediately and tried to exchange information with her and offered her a ride somewhere or if she wanted me to call someone. She insisted she was fine and didn't want to do anything. She hadn't even fallen off her bike and definitely hadn't hit her head or anything and she had a companion with her so I felt like the only thing I could do was say I was sorry again and leave it at that. 

 

I have to say until this thread, I thought I was in the right (although as someone pointed out being in the right doesn't really make you feel better in this kind of situation). I'm still not completely sure since I think I was clear about turning and I think she wasn't paying attention to my turn signal. The way we hit, I had already started my turn when she was trying to pass. However, after reading this thread I looked it up and found a biking site that said that around here the proper thing for a car to do was to merge over into the bike lane, to treat it like another lane of traffic. So, like you would never try to turn right across a lane of traffic you shoudn't turn across the bike lane but should sort of be in the bike lane. I had no idea that was the case, I saw the bike lanes as more like this protected space that my car wasn't supposed to go in ever. But I can see how it makes more sense to treat it like a narrow lane of traffic. 

 

We have a very popular bike trail that crosses our street. We are sometimes pedestrians, sometimes bikers and sometimes drivers. I teach the kids to always assume that cars aren't going to stop for them even though there is a flashing light now at the trail that can be pushed for crossing. As a driver, I think that sometimes the rules are confusing (as in my situation above). I think in general cars, bikes and pedestrians all need to show grace to each other but for their own safety assume that others either don't know the rules, don't care about the rules or aren't paying attention. 

[MBM]

If the pedestrians are in a crosswalk, in many states they have right of way. If drivers are not aware of these crosswalks, then the town needs to make them more noticeable. What will it take to do this? Someone's death?

 

I also live near a college town and in some areas they have had to put up permanent signs in the middle of the road and clearly-marked crosswalk stating that it is illegal to not stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk; yet time and again, I have seen drivers not stop for pedestrians in those crosswalks! At some of these areas, they have put up canisters with red flags to wave at the cars. It still doesn't work! I would love to see some cameras installed so that the drivers who do not stop would get ticketed.

 

FWIW, my husband was hit by a car in Chicago while he was legally walking in a crosswalk. Luckily he was not hurt too badly but was knocked on his can. He always looks over his shoulders before stepping into the street but in this case the driver had quickly driven up to the crosswalk and did not stop before making the right turn.

 

I was also hit by a car in Chicago as I crossed Chestnut Street, a one-way, from the Hancock to Water Tower Place. No one was on the road at the time and it was mid-morning. I was in the huge cross walk area and had my toddler in a baby jogger. An SUV had driven down the ramp into the Water Tower Place's underground parking lot and then drove quickly in reverse hitting me -- but thankfully not my son! I was knocked on my can after she hit my right thigh giving me a huge bruise and my son in the baby jogger lurched forward. The driver saw that she hit me and sped away. Nice. Luckily, people around came to help.

 

My youngest was hit by a car this summer on his bike while he was legally in a crosswalk. Ds had right of way and the other car was turning right but did not stop. Thankfully, the car *only* hit the front tire causing it to bend significantly and my son was okay but shaken up.

 

Yes, everyone needs to be aware but a driver of a vehicle weighing several thousand pounds and capable of moving quickly must be especially vigilant.

[Bluegoat]

These separate bike lanes (not to mention biking on the sidewalk) are actually rather dangerous, because cars making a right turn do not take cyclists who want to go straight and have the right of way seriously.

And on the sidewalk? Most sidewalks do not have an even surface that is conducive to biking at a commute speed - they may be fine for ambling along for a leisure ride, but definitely not for people who use the bike as a means of transportation. Also, there are the pedestrians. Putting bikes on the same sidewalk as pedestrians is a safety issue as well.

 

(DH has been biking to work for 20 years in different states and countries. I commuted by bike before kids when I did not have a car, and I just started recently here now that I no longer have to drive kids.)

 

I think you've misunderstood what I men bout separate bike lanes - I do not men the ones that are just painted on the road.  I agree those are in many cases dangerous, and not just if cars re not paying attention.  I don't think it is possible for bikes to have safe right of way at those intersections - even if the car driver checks diligently,  bikes can still come up very quickly once he has committed to the turn and must look ahead.

 

I mean separate, as in not on the same roadway at all, a  totally different system for bikes (and walkers in many cases) which usually is paved with  yellow line just like  road.  In some cases, they run parallel to the min road.

 

Sidewalks that are designed for bikes and people work well IME, but in the city I mentioned, old pedestrian sidewalks are only link-ups to sections of the larger bike network, and usually in suburban areas where they are not heavily used anyway.

[regentrude]

I think you've misunderstood what I men bout separate bike lanes - I do not men the ones that are just painted on the road.  I agree those are in many cases dangerous, and not just if cars re not paying attention.  I don't think it is possible for bikes to have safe right of way at those intersections - even if the car driver checks diligently,  bikes can still come up very quickly once he has committed to the turn and must look ahead.

 

I mean separate, as in not on the same roadway at all, a  totally different system for bikes (and walkers in many cases) which usually is paved with  yellow line just like  road.  In some cases, they run parallel to the min road.

 

No, I understood your meaning as the second. But even if the bike path/lane is separate from the road, if it runs parallel to the road, it must cross the side streets - unless they design a system of underpasses and bridges that avoids such crossings completely. Those are rare. In most cases of separate bike lanes, they would still be crossing the side streets at/near all intersections of the roads - and that's the dangerous part, because drivers pay even less attention than they do to bikes that are on the street.

 

Bike lanes on roads with right of way can work; it is done in many other countries. The most important thing is that drivers are educated about cyclists having the right of way. Back home, these issues are addressed in the mandatory drivers ed everybody has to take. It also helps that most people grow up biking themselves; schools back home do mandatory bikers ed in 4th grade. Having been a cyclist makes one a much more attentive driver.

 

 

 

Sidewalks that are designed for bikes and people work well IME,

 

We have those - but wherever I have seen them, they have a 5mph speed limit to make it safe for pedestrians. Which is fine for a leisure ride, but ridiculous for biking as transportation.

 

[Bluegoat]

No, I understood your meaning as the second. But even if the bike path/lane is separate from the road, if it runs parallel to the road, it must cross the side streets - unless they design a system of underpasses and bridges that avoids such crossings completely. Those are rare. In most cases of separate bike lanes, they would still be crossing the side streets at/near all intersections of the roads - and that's the dangerous part, because drivers pay even less attention than they do to bikes that are on the street.

 

Bike lanes on roads with right of way can work; it is done in many other countries. The most important thing is that drivers are educated about cyclists having the right of way. Back home, these issues are addressed in the mandatory drivers ed everybody has to take. It also helps that most people grow up biking themselves; schools back home do mandatory bikers ed in 4th grade. Having been a cyclist makes one a much more attentive driver.

 

 

 

 

We have those - but wherever I have seen them, they have a 5mph speed limit to make it safe for pedestrians. Which is fine for a leisure ride, but ridiculous for biking as transportation.

 

There were lots of underpasses (and overpasses) where I was, or, special crossing arrangements.  Many of the trails didn't seem to cross at the intersections at all.

 

For exmple in the neighborhood where I live, I think the main road would have to have a separate bike trial.  There is already one to dodge the traffic exchange and highway, but even the road into the residential area - it is very wide with fast traffic, and many places where cars are turning into businesses all long.  Bikes mixed with traffic there would be  bad idea.  That kind of ore-existing arrangement is common here.

 

Generally - my feeling is that a bike is far closer to  person than a car by weight, and even speed in many cases.