Tips for discriminating blends

[susanfh]

I'm on level 3 of Barton with my son, and he is doing pretty well.  He is suspected to have apraxia but none of his SLPs have ever given him a firm diagnosis. He has a really hard time hearing some sounds in many CVCC and CCVC words. He also has a hard time articulating many blends correctly and they are working on those in therapy.

 

So, for example, when we are working on spelling - if I say star, he hears sar.  Any ideas on how to work on this other than lots and lots of practice?  I was thinking minimal pairs, but I wouldn't sure if that would be helpful.  Most of the minimal pairs change the first letter - like star vs tar.  

 

Thanks so much,

Susan

[Lecka]

This is just one thought.  

 

Have him repeat back spelling words to you.  Have him look at your mouth.  If he doesn't say 'star," slow down your pronunciation and do the sssTar kind of pronunciation.  

 

Ask the speech therapist if that is good.

 

Does the speech therapist use any kind of hand signals to prompt sounds, if so, use the same prompts.  

 

Like -- maybe for t they will point at their tongue to show "hey, your tongue is supposed to be up in the front of your mouth."  Maybe they have some kind of prompt like that you can use, too.

 

It is just a thought.  

 

That is one kind of prompt.

 

Another prompt would be, for known errors like this, hold up a picture of a star as you say the word.  Then she will know what word you are saying and want her to spell.  

 

Those are two ideas for a prompt.

 

I think minimal pairs could work if he is advanced enough at the skill to distinguish between minimal pairs and just needs to practice the discriminating.  If he is not hearing it in the first place, I don't think it is ready for the discrimination step, maybe.  But maybe it would work.

 

I would ask the speech therapist, too.

 

Sometimes they can print stuff off for you from some book they have in their file cabinet to work on something s blends.  I would ask them.  Is he ON s blends in speech?  Are they working on s blends with him?  If it is not yet a therapy goal, I would try to work on other blends that are current therapy goals.  Like -- if they are not a therapy goal yet in speech, it doesn't necessarily make sense to be targeting for him to hear the sounds in spelling.  

 

But overall -- with a lot of practice and feedback he can improve. 

 

If he is able to say "star" correctly ----- have him look in the mirror.  Have him look at your mouth.  That can help sometimes, if he can see your tongue go up for the "t" sound.  If he can start with seeing/feeling his tongue for the "t" sound that can lead to also hearing the "t" sound and associating it.

 

I think it can just take time ----- think how long it takes kids to associate their sounds and their articulations.  It is something that takes time.  If he is newer to saying it, he will be newer to building up those associations, too.

 

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Just throwing out some ideas.  

[PeterPan]

A PROMPT therapist should be able to sort out whether it's apraxia or something else.  

 

Did you do LIPS with him?  How far did you take it?  With my ds, I felt like Barton's instructions for how to use LIPS and when to jump were going to be inadequate.  I used LIPS + PROMPT all the way to spelling through 5 letter words.  I *made sure* he could hear EVERY LETTER, every sound, every position, in a 5 letter word (initial blend, vowel, final blend) before we jumped over exclusively to Barton.  And I used LIPS with Barton well into Barton 2.  

 

LIPS plus PROMPT (the physical inputs for the sounds) is extremely powerful.  I would get back out LIPS and use it.  Go back through all the steps.  Feel the sounds, go from sound to LIPS pictures, go from pictures to tiles, go from tiles to letters.  All the steps.  For all the sounds.  For all positions.  And do that with 3, 4,5, 6 letter words.  Whatever it takes.

Edited November 21, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[susanfh]

That's a really good idea to pull out the LIPs pictures again.  We just went through until he could identify three individual sounds.  He did that, levels 1 and 2 with a Barton tutor.  I can see how integrating lips with blending the sounds could be really helpful.  He is working on S blends in ST.  So I can pull some of the practice things she's given us and work on those using the LIPS materials. 

 

I was also going to print out some CVCC picture cards for him to practice spelling with the visual cue.  

 

He sees a therapist that does PROMPT once a week (the other he sees through the school system).  I am hoping to get her to do a major evaluation before we move in a few months so we can get a firm diagnosis nailed down.  

 

I am a major box checker and have a hard time doing things out of order -- like moving on from one step in Barton before he masters it.  But I think it may make sense in this case.

 

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

 

 

[PeterPan]

Are you sitting in on the PROMPT sessions?  She should be teaching you the prompts.  Don't just hand him pictures and have him guessing, kwim?  Slow down and FEEL it.  Look in the mirror.  Do the prompts from his therapy.  

 

So like me, I would actually stop and say what does your mouth look like when you say /s/?  Where should you prompt me if you want me (mommy) to say /s/?  Have him do the prompt on you!  Doesn't matter if it's perfect or not. 

 

Yes, if someone did Barton 1 and 2 with him but they didn't give him physical input, didn't slow him down and use the LIPS pictures, dollars for donuts that is what is going on.  I didn't even let my ds out of Barton 1 till he could do all those skills with 5 letter words.  Barton's progression is only appropriate for typical dyslexics.  Our kids are MUCH more complex.  Barton assumes that if the skill clicks for 3, they'll have it for 4 or 5 or 6 letters.  We can't assume that, because we have so much more disability going on.  They're not separate disabilities but interwoven.  

 

I just let my PROMPT person borrow my LIPS materials.  It's surprising how much they don't know.  But it's because there's too much to learn, kwim?  Like they've already spent how many years getting a masters, then they go back and spend 2 years getting the PROMPT trainings and then more time to get certified.  So say yeah, I expect you to learn more techniques on top of this! is really rough, kwim?  That's why, to me, I felt like *I* was going to have to be the integrator.  

[PeterPan]

Btw, you do realize the phoneme deletion stuff is something they should have covered in Barton 1?  Or is it Barton 2?  Sorry, I forget. But I'm just saying, if they had done B1 and B2 *thoroughly* and with enough multi-sensory and to enough mastery (the severe amount it WILL take), he would be getting this.  Or he can do it in their settings but has more going on like CAPD.  I could buy that.  Not like kids just have one issue.  But if you've had him checked by an audiologist and screened for CAPD and there's not a physical reason for not hearing the sounds, then you're back to doing those basics thoroughly.  What you're describing should have already been done.  And like I said, every skill in those levels I would take FARTHER.  Because our kids need to FEEL it and do it, not just with 3, but with 4-6 letter words, just to get things to click.  So you may need to back up and repeat some lessons or levels even.  I wouldn't hesitate to do that.  Better to overlearn.

 

Btw, are you doing anything for working memory?  And is he getting OT?  You really can't go wrong adding in work for working memory.  It's essential, and it could be another reason why he's having trouble dropping letters.  Takes a lot of working memory to remember all those sounds and blend or manipulate.  

Edited November 21, 2015 by OhElizabeth

[LaughingCat]

Btw, you do realize the phoneme deletion stuff is something they should have covered in Barton 1?  Or is it Barton 2?  Sorry, I forget. But I'm just saying, if they had done B1 and B2 *thoroughly* and with enough multi-sensory and to enough mastery (the severe amount it WILL take), he would be getting this.   

Just want to say that for my DD, I could easily see her passing 1 & 2 and appearing to mastery (depending on your definition of mastery I suppose -- but passing the test anyway) -- and still not getting it.  Like the amount of work we did in LIPS - separating out word after word after word (and I did phoneme substitution/deletion/addition out the wazoo even before that).  But looking at her NP report 3 years later -- you'd think she'd never done a minute of it.

[susanfh]

Btw, you do realize the phoneme deletion stuff is something they should have covered in Barton 1?  Or is it Barton 2?  Sorry, I forget. But I'm just saying, if they had done B1 and B2 *thoroughly* and with enough multi-sensory and to enough mastery (the severe amount it WILL take), he would be getting this.  Or he can do it in their settings but has more going on like CAPD.  I could buy that.  Not like kids just have one issue.  But if you've had him checked by an audiologist and screened for CAPD and there's not a physical reason for not hearing the sounds, then you're back to doing those basics thoroughly.  What you're describing should have already been done.  And like I said, every skill in those levels I would take FARTHER.  Because our kids need to FEEL it and do it, not just with 3, but with 4-6 letter words, just to get things to click.  So you may need to back up and repeat some lessons or levels even.  I wouldn't hesitate to do that.  Better to overlearn.

 

Btw, are you doing anything for working memory?  And is he getting OT?  You really can't go wrong adding in work for working memory.  It's essential, and it could be another reason why he's having trouble dropping letters.  Takes a lot of working memory to remember all those sounds and blend or manipulate.  

 

He's had a CAPD eval and he passed it, although he couldn't complete some of it because he wasn't fully intelligible to the audiologist.  I'm in the process (getting on the waiting list) of getting him a new set of evals at a major teaching hospital so we can get more information.

 

I really wish I hadn't sold my Barton 1 and 2.  But I would think I should be able to go back without having the manuals, now that I've done it.  

 

We aren't doing anything for working memory.  Do you have any suggestions for that area?  

 

He receives OT through our charter school, but it is only twice a month, and is really only geared toward academic stuff -- fine motor control, being able to sit still, etc.  I'm hoping to get OT set up once we get to NC, but that won't be until March probably.  The only pediatric OT around here that takes our insurance is about 1 1/2 hours away.  We are already doing speech 3 times a week.  I'm always having to prioritize stuff.  I wish I could do it all. I also have two other kids, a 6 year old NT and a 2 year old who is likely to have apraxia also.  So he has speech twice a week and a teacher once a week. 

 

Thank you all so much for the helpful suggestions.  

[PeterPan]

Well doing LIPS and working through 5-6 consonants automatically works on working memory, mercy.  We did digit spans.  We did whole stuff, like giving a sequence of commands he had to repeat and obey.  We play games like A Fist Full of Coins.  

 

If you can get your OT to check for retained primitive reflexes, that would give you some information.  

 

Not that I've ever had the choice in spacing babies, but that has been my big gulp, to realize if we had more there could be more SN, sigh.  Carry on.  They're worth it, but after he started his therapy at 2 I pretty much ditched all dreams of lots more.  At this point, I dream of one.  That would be it for us, sigh.  It's just too long a journey.

 

Didn't someone say NC has disability funding?  You might check.

[susanfh]

 

Not that I've ever had the choice in spacing babies, but that has been my big gulp, to realize if we had more there could be more SN, sigh.  Carry on.  They're worth it, but after he started his therapy at 2 I pretty much ditched all dreams of lots more.  At this point, I dream of one.  That would be it for us, sigh.  It's just too long a journey.

 

Didn't someone say NC has disability funding?  You might check.

 

Ha yes, I wish we could have more babies, but my head is barely ahead of water as it is.  I do have some envy of really large families, though.  Alas, it is not to be.

 

NC does has disability funding, but to qualify the child has to have been in a NC public school for the previous semester (or be in K or 1st).  So I'd have to enroll him in school for 1/2 a year.  That's not going to happen, especially with the state of education in NC right now.   I've been so lucky to homeschool here in CA through a charter school.  They paid for his Barton tutor, some OT, and some good speech therapy.