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Red-shirting study: better mental health


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“We found that delaying kindergarten for one year reduced inattention and hyperactivity by 73% for an average child at age 11,†Thomas Dee, one of the co-authors and a Stanford Graduate School of Education professor, said in a release.

 

As a mother of boys especially,  I appreciate this study and the resulting articles. http://qz.com/546832/stanford-researchers-show-were-sending-many-children-to-school-way-too-early/

 

 

I don't believe all children should be red-shirted, but I do believe red-shirting shouldn't be looked down upon if a parent decides that's what's best for their child.  If we public schooled, I would have red shirted three out of my four boys. Three have late summer birthdays and will be graduating at 17, and the other has a late fall birthday. While we're relaxed in the early elementary years, the three older ones are doing grade level work now (what they would be in public school), except grammar. My boys do grammar two years behind, and they'll either just stop at 9th or go until 11th with it.  My other son is in a grade earlier than what he would be in public school (due to him not making the cutoff by a few months). He's a quick learner and studious by nature. He's also the one reading in his free time, while the other boys are out building forts or wrestling.  Observing the aforementioned things are what played into what grade I ended up putting him in. I love the flexibility with homeschooling to  meet individual needs! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't judge individual families for this choice particularly as I have an October girl and April girl so I really don't know what they face.

 

I will say that if red-shirting is across the board, then it doesn't work. What works is being the oldest. Everyone can't be the oldest. So the question is, does the effect apply to people who just start school late with no advantage?

 

I think there are ample studies showing being the youngest has a negative effect for many performance metrics.

 

The problem is... someone's always the youngest. So while moving your kid to the front of the line makes sense, and as parents we all do that for our kids because we are the only ones who can, as a policy question it's not helpful information. It's one of those "more money and resources helps". Well, yeah... if you have more, you feel better about yourself. But poverty and performance is always relative.

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The articles I read from the study seemed to me to be saying that it wasn't about not being the youngest. I have read that in older articles though. From what I understand, the recent research hints it's more about the developmental maturity that takes place from year to year.

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I read the article and looked at the abstract for the study you posted. They only looked at children whose parents entered them later than the norm in this study. Given what we know about being older, it would be very hard to tease out the difference.

 

To me, that is interesting data and useful to an individual parent, but not at all useful to help us better educate children. Someone will always be youngest.

 

Children in many countries start school as late as 8, 9, and 10 when they are poor and generally suffer from it. Clearly, just starting at an older age doesn't help. Maybe there's a "magic starting point" around age 7, but this doesn't show that.

 

I don't have access to the full article, but my guess is, being from a family where they prioritize your mental health and psychological well-being, being the oldest, having a family with resources to delay school entry--these are all huge confounding factors and I don't see that they're addressing them.

 

For those in the thread that have made that choice for their boys, their suspicion that their boys will be better off older is confirmed.

 

But again, it's literally logically impossible for this to work for everyone if the effect is relative to the other kids in the school.

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Yeah, there are many factors involved with education. I know that two of my sons especially would not have done well in a classroom setting or at least not unless red-shirted. They need the tutor type setting that homeschooling lend itself to. My husband went to private school growing up, and though he did well grade wise in school, his mom was constantly going to bat for him because he just wasn't the studious, sit still, learn it the first time around type. He probably would have benefited from being red-shirted, I believe. I know it was exhausting for his mother. 

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We own this book, and it's a great read about how our educational system could be better for boys: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Boys-Fail-Educational-Leaving/dp/0814420176

 

ETA: My husband also didn't go to college even though it would have been 100% paid for by his parents, even if he took 6 years to get a bachelor's degree. :)  I do think there's something to the article in the OP about how starting later can lend itself to some actually feeling successful in school and increasing your confidence and well being.  I think my husband would have gone to college if his other schooling years were filled with more positive, successful feelings, but, of course, there's not way to know for sure. The above book addresses this problem too. Only 40% of college graduates are men. 

 

ETA: He did go to flight school and get his pilot's license (private not commercial) though. 

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I agree that there are many, many things that we could be doing for boys and girls. I understand that parents of boys feel particularly hard done by with the emphasis of getting girls into science and especially with boys doing so poorly in higher ed and I myself am very concerned for my stepson who is very bright but uninspired by school. It's painful to watch and we can't do it for him. But I think in the long run the most successful measures will be more child-friendly period, and part of that would involve starting at 7.

 

But then, it would be great if we could also have universal play-based nursery "school" like in parts of German, so that mothers and fathers could work and both sexes could have the freedom hey need to grow as well as inspiration for hope of a career choice when they grow up.

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This doesn't surprise me one bit.  We red-shirted our DS and it's now starting to pay what I consider to be big dividends in maturity and ability.  Wish I had red-shirted DD; I think most kids can benefit from more childhood playtime.

As a mother of boys especially,  I appreciate this study and the resulting articles. http://qz.com/546832/stanford-researchers-show-were-sending-many-children-to-school-way-too-early/

 

 

I don't believe all children should be red-shirted, but I do believe red-shirting shouldn't be looked down upon if a parent decides that's what's best for their child.  If we public schooled, I would have red shirted three out of my four boys. Three have late summer birthdays and will be graduating at 17, and the other has a late fall birthday. While we're relaxed in the early elementary years, the three older ones are doing grade level work now (what they would be in public school), except grammar. My boys do grammar two years behind, and they'll either just stop at 9th or go until 11th with it.  My other son is in a grade earlier than what he would be in public school (due to him not making the cutoff by a few months). He's a quick learner and studious by nature. He's also the one reading in his free time, while the other boys are out building forts or wrestling.  Observing the aforementioned things are what played into what grade I ended up putting him in. I love the flexibility with homeschooling to  meet individual needs! 

 

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We were encouraged by many to redshirt DD.  We decided against it and now that she is in college we think we made the correct decision.  What we did decide to do was send her to a 1/2 day, old fashioned kindergarten rather than to PS kindergarten.  She would not have been able to sit still all day doing worksheets.  She was not reading when she left kindergarten (again we were warned not to put her in first grade).  She would have gone crazy being 18 and still spending another year in high school.  

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If a child is on the edge, I think keeping them back that year is usually best.  

 

My ds9 is a summer b-day.  If he went to PS in elementary, I would consider holding him back a year...to be with his buddies who are only 2-4mo younger.  

 

My ds12 is dyslexic and behind in writing/spelling.  Holding him back would not change the dyslexia, but it would give an extra year to remmediate before hitting high school.

 

 

If we continue homeschooling, it's a non-issue.  They will begin outside courses as they are ready.  I am thinking of my oldest as a 6th grader for the sake of not pushing him beyond a healthy point right now even though he should be 7th.  But, I will keep good transcripts that 8th grade year just in case he finds he's ready to leave home the minute he turns 18yo.  

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This doesn't surprise me one bit.  We red-shirted our DS and it's now starting to pay what I consider to be big dividends in maturity and ability.  Wish I had red-shirted DD; I think most kids can benefit from more childhood playtime.

 

 

We were encouraged by many to redshirt DD.  We decided against it and now that she is in college we think we made the correct decision.  What we did decide to do was send her to a 1/2 day, old fashioned kindergarten rather than to PS kindergarten.  She would not have been able to sit still all day doing worksheets.  She was not reading when she left kindergarten (again we were warned not to put her in first grade).  She would have gone crazy being 18 and still spending another year in high school.  

 

So I'm just going to honest here. I probably would have used more rigorous math curricula if I would have had the guts to red-shirt. But trying an Asian math approach with my first two boys on grade level in their early years was a total fail. Now their math education is on par with or better than public school. We do regular testing too, so I know they're doing well. I think though it would have been better to do and advanced math a year behind rather than the traditional approach we're doing now, but there is just something in me that felt it was better to do something on grade level.  I'm bummed now that I didn't take that unconventional road.  

 

Our kid will be dual enrolled their 10th grade year, so it wouldn't have been a problem if I had red-shirted them homeschooling.

 

I just want to open up the discussion about options. We have more than the traditional ones, and as this study seems to say, it can be really important for some kids.

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Most of the stuff i have read lately say the gains are short lived and the overall effect is negative as kids who do well put it down to being older and kids who do poorly feel extra stupid.

Can you link some info?

 

This study here is looking at a time span of several years which IMO is not short-term, especially in terms of being diagnosed and medicated as there are life-long implications.

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I've started one early, one on-time, have one on a Jan-Dec timeframe who could go either way, and two are red-shirted. All are homeschooled.

I'm still on the fence on whether it was the right choice to red shirt or start the one early. Only time will tell.

It is really strange to have two who are so 'behind' where the others were at the same or earlier ages. It makes the siblings think the red shirted ones are dumb when they really aren't. They just have one (or two) less formal schooling years under their belt at the same age. Since I don't have kids who are natural spellers, teach-themselves-to-read, or are gifted academically, it stands out.

 

I'm glad to have the flexibility to make such decisions, even if I screw them up.

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Reading the article what I read is that with the current model of school the default should be starting late, not just to start some late. Or we could go back to having k not being the new first grade(my personal vote).As it is parents don't have the option of changing how schools are run so they do what they can, which is starting their kids later. My son has a b-day the day before the local cut-off, which I found funny because the study was of kids like him, comparing the ones who fell right before to those who fell right after the cut-off. In our hs I consider him both grades, for extra-curricular activities he does the earlier grade because that is where boys his age are, time will tell what the best option is for highschool and graduation but it is sure a blessing to be able to decide that as we go. Personally, I hope that we figure out that our continually pushing of more and more work on younger and younger kids is only hurting them in the long run and having the exact opposite result we are trying to achieve.

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I essentially did that with both of mine.  However it doesn't really apply because I homeschool.  It's just that I list them a grade below their age based grade.  I do so essentially because of the way the homeschooling regs work here.  So at this point I will be essentially skipping my older kid next year.  Skipping eighth to start ninth.  It's not really skipping because most of what he does for school work is above his grade level.  But then my other kid, granted he is only 10, I will probably keep a grade behind.  I don't see him as being quite mature enough to be in the next grade.  That might change of course, but for now it seems spot on.  The cut offs are odd here though.  My older kid was born at the end of January.  So he would have been the oldest even without holding him back.  But then my younger kid was born in June.  He would have been one of the younger ones.

 

 

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As always choose whatever is the most appropriate at that point in time for your individual child.

 

DS9 missed the official cut off by 3 days. He asked to be grade skip since K because he didn't want to be oldest in grade. I put in the request for grade skip when he was in 2nd to the public school and they are fine with it.

 

DS10 was born just before cut off. He was offered a grade skip twice but I didn't want to put him in middle school at 9 years old so I rejected twice.

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Not having read the study yet, just skimming the article:

 

One interesting hypothesis is posed: did attending school later allow kids more time to develop through unstructured play? Developmental psychology research emphasizes the importance of imaginative play in aiding children’s emotional and intellectual self-regulation. “Children who delay their school starting age may have an extended (and appropriately timed) exposure to such playful environments,†the study noted.

 

IMO, all this suggests is that the demands of K may be developmentally inappropriate, in particular non-academic demands.  If this hypothesis is correct, I don't think that implies anything about always being older *than the other kids* in the class as opposed to being older than traditional age-for-grade.

 

It might also suggest that the demands even of the later grades are developmentally inappropriate for some portion of the kids, as kids do develop on different timetables (also not referring to academics but aspects involving attention and executive function - a big can of worms, to be sure).

 

Ill try to read the study later...

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Thanks for the discussion, ladies. I'm enjoying it.

 

 

Not having read the study yet, just skimming the article:

 

 

IMO, all this suggests is that the demands of K may be developmentally inappropriate, in particular non-academic demands.  If this hypothesis is correct, I don't think that implies anything about always being older *than the other kids* in the class as opposed to being older than traditional age-for-grade.

 

It might also suggest that the demands even of the later grades are developmentally inappropriate for some portion of the kids, as kids do develop on different timetables (also not referring to academics but aspects involving attention and executive function - a big can of worms, to be sure).

 

Ill try to read the study later...

 

With kids that are the youngest they could possible be for their grade and, for the most part, average students, I tend to agree with this. I wish I  could do it all over again with the hindsight that I have now. I do wonder if we could have been a more classical, conceptual math homeschool had I red-shirted them.  I certainly tried those approaches in the beginning. It just wasn't worth the stress, tears, and apathy to continue for us.  I know we're doing better than what public school has to offer, at least. 

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I do wonder if we could have been a more classical, conceptual math homeschool had I red-shirted them.

It depends on the teachers and the public school. My district only cares when the state testing starts in 3rd. So K-2nd is very relaxed which is probably why no one redshirts. Some other districts are "results oriented" from K.

 

Hindsight is always tricky. Hubby and I can only make whatever is the best decision at that point of time and move on.

 

ETA:

DS10 could write but don't want to. He handed in blank paper to his K and 1st public school teacher. Handed in one long sentence paragraphs to his 2nd-4th grade teachers if he write anything at all.

 

No writing required for state testing so beyond a mild nag a few times a year, teachers didn't bother him about it.

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With kids that are the youngest they could possible be for their grade and, for the most part, average students, I tend to agree with this. I wish I  could do it all over again with the hindsight that I have now. I do wonder if we could have been a more classical, conceptual math homeschool had I red-shirted them.  I certainly tried those approaches in the beginning. It just wasn't worth the stress, tears, and apathy to continue for us.  I know we're doing better than what public school has to offer, at least. 

 

FWIW, for homeschoolers, I don't think redshirting would be necessary for most average kids, because the parent can design the environment to allow for the types of development that the article suggests may be the issue in K (or later, for that matter), without holding back academics.  One aspect that I think Montessori got right is the emphasis on the adults preparing the environment for appropriate development.  Bringing that idea over to homeschooling at the K level, that idea would extend from the home environment and activities to curriculum choices.  You teach the child you have, or as Montessori would say, "follow the child," or suit the learning environment to his needs.

 

With regard to the bolded, I might say that yes, it might be easier to use "classical" methods with an older student than a younger one, but in such case I'd be referring to neo-classical, trivium, WTM sorts of methods and not how I'd ordinarily use the term classical education.  I think to myself, so what - those methods aren't the only way to teach and/or in the home environment, methods and curricula can be tweaked to suit the student.  It just so happens that my kids would need a lot of tweaking if they were to follow such methods as they may not be ideal for them.

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I think if Kindergarten had been like you describe (1/2 day, play-based), and early elementary was less intense and stressful, I might have considered otherwise.  The expectations these days for early elementary are ridiculous, though, and all in preparation for state tests.

We were encouraged by many to redshirt DD.  We decided against it and now that she is in college we think we made the correct decision.  What we did decide to do was send her to a 1/2 day, old fashioned kindergarten rather than to PS kindergarten.  She would not have been able to sit still all day doing worksheets.  She was not reading when she left kindergarten (again we were warned not to put her in first grade).  She would have gone crazy being 18 and still spending another year in high school.  

 

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I'm not sure anyone can make a call for sure either way, as there are no blind and controlled studies, with kids randomly assigned to one group or another, about this.  I can only say that once DS was red-shirted, he was not pushed to do what he was not ready to do, is now mature and has sound judgment, and is now socially adept, where he was not any of those things before being red-shirted and when he was at "grade level".  I can't see any controlled, peer-reviewed studies ever coming out of this debate, however, and the decision to red-shirt will probably always be a judgment call without a clear and defined answer.  I also think "gains" are very subjective and can mean academic gains, social gains, or more long-term (30 years or so) gains.

Most of the stuff i have read lately say the gains are short lived and the overall effect is negative as kids who do well put it down to being older and kids who do poorly feel extra stupid.

 

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This expresses my sentiments exactly; later should be the default age.

Reading the article what I read is that with the current model of school the default should be starting late, not just to start some late. Or we could go back to having k not being the new first grade(my personal vote).As it is parents don't have the option of changing how schools are run so they do what they can, which is starting their kids later. My son has a b-day the day before the local cut-off, which I found funny because the study was of kids like him, comparing the ones who fell right before to those who fell right after the cut-off. In our hs I consider him both grades, for extra-curricular activities he does the earlier grade because that is where boys his age are, time will tell what the best option is for highschool and graduation but it is sure a blessing to be able to decide that as we go. Personally, I hope that we figure out that our continually pushing of more and more work on younger and younger kids is only hurting them in the long run and having the exact opposite result we are trying to achieve.

 

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Not having read the study yet, just skimming the article:

 

 

IMO, all this suggests is that the demands of K may be developmentally inappropriate, in particular non-academic demands.  If this hypothesis is correct, I don't think that implies anything about always being older *than the other kids* in the class as opposed to being older than traditional age-for-grade.

 

It might also suggest that the demands even of the later grades are developmentally inappropriate for some portion of the kids, as kids do develop on different timetables (also not referring to academics but aspects involving attention and executive function - a big can of worms, to be sure).

 

Ill try to read the study later...

 

:iagree:

 

I have a problem with this. I think all it's really suggesting is that we're making too many demands on kids. And there have been so many studies suggesting *that* recently while previous to this study all the things I had seen seemed to suggest that holding kids back usually doesn't actually help them long term.

 

I also think it's so elitist that it hurts my head. Poor families cannot afford to pay for another year of a parent out of work or another year of preschool. Or they don't have the ability (time and money) to advocate for their child to repeat the public preschool program they managed to get into. As far as I can tell, this is purely an affluent family choice to redshirt. And then the more people who redshirt, the more the standards get raised because the middle rises (schools teaching to the middle, as always). And then the bigger the gap between the kids who have and the kids who have not and now look dumb compared to the other kids in the class. Except they're not dumb... they're a year and half younger is all.

 

That said, I think it's not an issue in a homeschool context and thank goodness. My kids are on the cusp and just meet the cut off. I registered them as the grade they are legally (there was no method to legally redshirt a k'er here and kindy is required by law so it was a moot question anyway). If at some point they need an extra year, we can insert one if we have to.

 

I also, like Tsuga said, don't have judgement for individual families who choose to redshirt. I really am only speaking from a general trends perspective. Individuals are always going to do whatever they can do for their kids and should have the right to try to (obviously, since I homeschool instead of sending my kids to a school where my involvement might "make a difference").

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Hmm, I can't agree that it's a nonissue homeschooling.  I wouldn't feel comfortable skipping a year of math later on to advance my kid into the grade or book he "should" be in had I red-shirted. You could do spread that extra year over the red-shirting years I suppose, but that doesn't sound ideal for all kids either. 

 

It seemed the kids in the study didn't feel dumb, actually the opposite. ETA: The study doesn't cover this exact situation, but it does appear that for some, red-shirting is better for them in the long run.

 

Interesting conversation, I appreciate the discussion.

 

 

 

 

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Hmm, I can't agree that it's a nonissue homeschooling.  I wouldn't feel comfortable skipping a year of math later on to advance my kid into the grade or book he "should" be in had I red-shirted. You could do spread that extra year over the red-shirting years I suppose, but that doesn't sound ideal for all kids either. 

 

It seemed the kids in the study didn't feel dumb, actually the opposite.

 

Interesting conversation, I appreciate the discussion.

 

But in a homeschool context, you don't have to worry about what grade level means. I have waited a year or gone ahead a year in something and not adjusted the child's grade. The grade is borderline irrelevant to the work I give my kids. I give them work that makes sense for them, not that is what their grade "should" be doing. If someone feels attached to the grade level, I think that's on the individual homeschooler. It really doesn't have to matter at all.

 

I'm saying that if you're a newly 5 yo kid, entering a class full of kids who are 6 yo and a few months - sometimes even kids who will turn 7 while they're in kindergarten with you while you won't even turn 6 until the summer, then there is a good chance you'll end up feeling dumb. If a large portion of the class is redshirted then it has a potentially negative effect on the kids who are not redshirted.

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FWIW, my perspective is that child development isn't as linear as school grade levels suggest.  Development includes leaps and plateaus.  I am not of the mind that a homeschooling parent needs to decide whether a child will graduate at 18 or 19 (or 17) when the child is only 5.

 

For math specifically, I would agree that skipping a level isn't always a good idea.  In a one-on-one homeschooling situation, math is not difficult to slow down - or speed up and compact - as needed at any point but especially around grades 6-8.  B&M school typically isn't capable of the individualized compaction that would be involved and students have to sit on tracks, though even with B&M tracks there tends to be some switching up around the middle school level.  For a student who develops later in this subject, even without any compaction, at an ordinary pace, a parent can cover a grade level's worth of math in 2 or 3 summers if the student is otherwise ready to learn the material (I say 2, because summer work reduces the amount of needed review at the start of the fall; very efficient).

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Since testing is required in our state, I have to pick a grade that my kids will get tested at every other year. I feel that's it's best for homeschooling as a movement if kids score decently on these tests. The interesting this is  in OR, you get to decide what grade your young child is in legally, and that has to be decided by 7 years old. So when your child turns 7 they must be registered legally, and a parent can pick K, 1st, or 2nd grade to register them in.

 

Also, because we want to take advantage of DE being free for kids only in 11th and 12th grade here, what grade we decide to put them in early on matters to their college success and funding. This is probably the biggest reason I wish I had red-shirted legally. I do intend for my kids to go to college rather than graduate high school typically. ETA: DE and kids graduating high school or a year after with an associate's degree is really popular here, perhaps because it is fully funded (unless you do you AA in 3 years. then it would be partially)

 

 

You can accelerate your kid once you're in the system, but  it's not easy or even doable for the average child to skip a grade within the system. 

 

 

 

 

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Wapiti, if you have access and can share I'd love the text via pm.

 

I would if I could :)  I hadn't noticed that it costs five bucks - not worth it IMO

 

It seemed the kids in the study didn't feel dumb, actually the opposite. ETA: The study doesn't cover this exact situation, but it does appear that for some, red-shirting is better for them in the long run.

 

The abstract seems to state that the inattention/hyperactivity angle was significant but doesn't give details on "other mental health constructs" so I'm not sure whether it goes into issues regarding feeling dumb:

In many developed countries, children now begin their formal schooling at an older age. However, a growing body of empirical studies provides little evidence that such schooling delays improve educational and economic outcomes. This study presents new evidence on whether school starting age influences student outcomes by relying on linked Danish survey and register data that include several distinct, widely used, and validated measures of mental health that are reported out-of-school among similarly aged children. We estimate the causal effects of delayed school enrollment using a "fuzzy" regression-discontinuity design based on exact dates of birth and the fact that, in Denmark, children typically enroll in school during the calendar year in which they turn six. We find that a one-year delay in the start of school dramatically reduces inattention/hyperactivity at age 7 (effect size = -0.7), a measure of self regulation with strong negative links to student achievement. We also find that this large and targeted effect persists at age 11. However, the estimated effects of school starting age on other mental-health constructs, which have weaker links to subsequent student achievement, are smaller and less persistent.

 
The author also states:
 
“It’s not just a question of when do you start kindergarten, but what do you do in those kindergarten classes?†Dee said. “If you make kindergarten the new first grade, then parents may sensibly decide to delay entry. If kindergarten is not the new first grade, then parents may not delay children’s entries as much.â€

 

FWIW, that alone tells me what I need to know about this study.  The study's conclusion might potentially be interesting from a sensory development angle; to me, that depends entirely on whether the attention and executive function demands are age-appropriate at the later measurement points that showed a difference.  However, assuming most homeschoolers aren't producing an environment that renders "kindergarten the new first grade," I don't think this study is something for homeschoolers to be concerned about when making a decision on the right time to start K-level work with their individual child.
 
Here are a couple of other articles that take a different view (I just happen to have them; not a fresh search - I have no idea what might be out there in either direction), ETA, though again, I really see this as a B&M school issue rather than a homeschooling one (and I'm sure if we try we can find things we don't agree with in these studies too):
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We were encouraged by many to redshirt DD.  We decided against it and now that she is in college we think we made the correct decision.  What we did decide to do was send her to a 1/2 day, old fashioned kindergarten rather than to PS kindergarten.  She would not have been able to sit still all day doing worksheets.  She was not reading when she left kindergarten (again we were warned not to put her in first grade).  She would have gone crazy being 18 and still spending another year in high school.  

I think this would be a great option - if 1/2 day kindergartens were still available. To the best of my knowledge, there are no local public OR private schools that offer 1/2 day kinder any longer (in my area). In fact, even most of the pre-k programs here are full day (8-2ish).

I pointed this out to my husband when he lamented on that he had "no problem" behaving in kindergarten as a child. He attended kindergarten over 40 years ago - and it was a 1/2 day program WITH (relatively) long recess and snack periods. Our boys would be able to pull that off, too, because the reality is that it was only about an hour of "seat time" broken up over a few hours of "on campus" time. 

That isn't the reality now. The kindergartens keep the same hours as the rest of elementary school (8-2:30 or so), have 20-30 minute recess periods daily, weather permitting, and a 20 minute lunch period. 

 

I'm kind of, on the down-low, "redshirting" DS6 at home. Shhh ;)

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Also, because we want to take advantage of DE being free for kids only in 11th and 12th grade here, what grade we decide to put them in early on matters to their college success and funding. This is probably the biggest reason I wish I had red-shirted legally.

Could you repeat a grade on paper? My local public school have kids repeating a grade if parents and teacher agree. Not common but not unusual either.

 

My district pays for DE only if my boys are enrolled in their high schools.

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Could you repeat a grade on paper? My local public school have kids repeating a grade if parents and teacher agree. Not common but not unusual either.

 

My district pays for DE only if my boys are enrolled in their high schools.

 

I'll def. look into that. 

 

We are really thankful that homeschoolers can take part in funded DE here!

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So I'm just going to honest here. I probably would have used more rigorous math curricula if I would have had the guts to red-shirt. But trying an Asian math approach with my first two boys on grade level in their early years was a total fail. Now their math education is on par with or better than public school. We do regular testing too, so I know they're doing well. I think though it would have been better to do and advanced math a year behind rather than the traditional approach we're doing now, but there is just something in me that felt it was better to do something on grade level.  I'm bummed now that I didn't take that unconventional road.

 

FWIW, I hope you don't have regrets - you made choices to suit your children as they grew.  One way wasn't working so you sought another way - makes sense!  Different kids develop at different rates in different ways.  Some kids may be ready for more or less depth at different stages of development, some earlier and some later.  Just because the depth didn't work earlier on doesn't mean you can't now supplement, even if your deeper supplement is a level behind a main program.  Also, there are different ways to add depth.  A student learning from a traditional approach can arrive at middle or high school and get involved in math contests (the type that offer some depth) or add in an online problem solving course of one sort or another.  There's more than one way to skin that cat :)

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FWIW, I hope you don't have regrets - you made choices to suit your children as they grew.  One way wasn't working so you sought another way - makes sense!  Different kids develop at different rates in different ways.  Some kids may be ready for more or less depth at different stages of development, some earlier and some later.  Just because the depth didn't work earlier on doesn't mean you can't now supplement, even if your deeper supplement is a level behind a main program.  Also, there are different ways to add depth.  A student learning from a traditional approach can arrive at middle or high school and get involved in math contests (the type that offer some depth) or add in an online problem solving course of one sort or another.  There's more than one way to skin that cat :)

 

I have my good days and bad days. :)  Thanks for the ideas and support! I'll look into those  ideas. We were going to do Beast this year as a supplement, but after realizing the price (I was floored), it wasn't in the budget this year. Maybe we can make it happen next year.

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I have my good days and bad days. :)  Thanks for the ideas and support! I'll look into those  ideas. We were going to do Beast this year as a supplement, but after realizing the price (I was floored), it wasn't in the budget this year. Maybe we can make it happen next year.

 

If I was put off by the price, I'd look at just getting the workbooks and skipping the guidebooks.  But take that with a grain of salt, as I have only used very tiny bits of BA here and there with one of my kids.

 

For your older child, you could add the beginning topics in Alcumus - free :)

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I've got two littles. They both have summer birthdays and they both started kindergarten at approximately five at our local private Montessori school. My oldest turned 5 on June 19 so was five when school started. My youngest turned 5 on August 25th and so was four when school started in early August.  The cut off date for enrollment in Georgia currently is September 1. Both of my children were among the very youngest in their class. I never really considered red-shirting because I knew I would be homeschooling first grade. I knew I would teach to whatever their level was and I knew the Montessori school  would do the same. In GA, I only have to declare the age of my student and not pick a grade, which is nice. I do, however, have to administer a standardized test at the end of 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th grades. To that point, I guess I have until the end of third grade to determine what grade my child is in. Even then, I don't have to submit the results of the test to anyone, so I suppose that in my own little bubble, it doesn't really count until I announce we've begun high school and a 9th grade standardized test is taken and a transcript is kept.

 

To the point of the article, my thoughts are that of course the older children have an advantage. How can it not be true that,

 

“We found that delaying kindergarten for one year reduced inattention and hyperactivity by 73% for an average child at age 11,†Thomas Dee, one of the co-authors and a Stanford Graduate School of Education professor, said in a release.

 

It seems obvious to me that young kindergartners aren't prepared for the type of seatwork that we currently expect for kindergarten now that kindergarten is the new first grade. On the other hand, I do want to make one comment specifically about ADHD. I do believe that a young child in kindergarten would be more likely misdiagnosed with ADHD when compared to the older kindergartners in the same class. On the other hand, I do believe that ADHD is a "real" thing and it doesn't go away with age. So while a young kindergartner might be misdiagnosed because he is the youngest in the class, some small percentage of kids in the same class will actually have ADHD and that will NOT go away regardless whether they start kindergarten at five or six.

 

My oldest has ADHD. She started Montessori kindergarten at a young age five and her (very experienced) teacher noted that she had some different learning needs. She never once ever ever said ADHD. It wasn't until I brought her home that I though wow, this is what ADHD (inattentive) must look like.  She is and always has been advanced in several areas of learning, especially math and science. She lags in writing and spelling. If I were to try to place her in public school, I would be in a difficult position. Placing he in 4th grade math and science because her writing and spelling skills lag behind would be a disservice to her. At the same time, she wouldn't really be served in a 5th grade classroom because of her writing and spelling skills. Truly, she wouldn't be served in either classroom because she couldn't pay attention and it wouldn't matter if the classroom was labeled 4th, 5th or even Kindergarten. Starting a child too early doesn't cause ADHD. Having unreasonable expectations for young children certainly makes them appear to have ADHD when maturity might make a big difference.  I'm so glad I homeschool because that's a hard decision I don't have to make.

 

 

 

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From a policy perspective, what it says to me is that schools are not developmentally appropriate for the full range of ages that are eligible for a given grade.  Making some of the kids wait a year to go to school doesn't seem to me like the right way to deal with it - on a group basis.  Of course we as parents need to do what meets our individual kids' needs.

 

I do think the logic is often flawed when people give personal anecdotes about why red-shirting was right for their kid.  "He's near the top of his class."  Well, he's the oldest, so where else would one expect him to be (assuming no learning problems)?  Similar comment to "he's youngest, and he has to work harder to keep up."  Well, why wouldn't he, unless he was gifted?  I personally think it is good for kids to have to work hard in school.  Given a choice, I would rather my kids not be in a class that is easy for them.  I think they learn more when they have to work hard for it.

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I also don't understand what a 73% decrease in hyperactivity/inattention for an average child at age 11 means.  Perhaps someone could translate for a dummy like me.  :)

 

Most of my family has been young for their grade, including my two daughters.  Hyperactivity hasn't been an issue.  Inattention, yes I guess, for those of us who were still ahead of the classes we were accelerated into.  I can't imagine that being less of a problem if we were in a lower grade.  "Oh goodie, we're going over verb tenses again.  What shall I daydream about today?"  (This hasn't been a problem for my kids, but was for my sibs and me.)

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Maybe I missed something but I didn't read this article to be espousing starting later so kids could get some academic boost by being older. Personally, that really chaps my hide. My primary concern for when I started ds with school was the behavior issues, specifically attention and hyperactivity, just like the article mentioned, it is so much bigger than who has the best grades. It is about the fact that our pushing of developmentally inappropriate expectations is leading to an explosion in ADHD diagnosis, as has been stated ADHD does truly exist but a chunk of our problem now is mislabeling normal behavior as abnormal and pushing kids beyond what they can handle, which is such a bigger issue than my kid is the biggest kid on the team or the smartest person in their class, those things never even entered my mind and from the parents I've spoken too are similarly minded, we don't want our kid to become one of the statistics. I don't know what the hell was wrong with the standards we held previously for early education, if one has a kid that is ready early then great but don't make the exceptions to the rule the default, most kids aren't ready for what we are pushing on them. 

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I read an article today in which a public school mom wasn't sure whether to do K at 5 or 6, but after talking to other parents who had gone with the later age, not one regretted their decision. She did the same and has not regretted her decision either.

 

I don't know how I feel about this -- ie, I'm not sure if I regret our decision or not.  Our daughter has a September birthday and her preschool teachers were heavily in favor of redshirting all kids with September birthdays.  We were surprised and just dumb, at the time.  We went along with it because we allowed ourselves to think the idea of giving our child "the gift of time" was a good one.  However, it became very evident in kindergarten and then even moreso in first grade, that my dd was miles ahead of her classmates, both socially and academically.  We ultimately pulled her and her sister out to homeschool in the second half of her first grade year.  

 

Having homeschooled ever since, I just don't place that much importance on grade level.  I still call her an 8th grader, even though the work she does is far more advanced.  It doesn't really matter when we homeschool, so I haven't worried too much about it up to this point.  I'm not sure what to do with her for the future though....early high school graduation?  Or take an extra year to explore more deeply before college?  Both options have their appeal.   I'm still not sure if we did the right thing to hold her back a year.  Time will tell.

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I don't know what the hell was wrong with the standards we held previously for early education, if one has a kid that is ready early then great but don't make the exceptions to the rule the default, most kids aren't ready for what we are pushing on them.

State testing from 1st grade may have worsen the problem. Like I wrote earlier, my kids' public school did not care until 3rd grade because that is when state testing starts. Science is on a backburner because there is no state testing for science.

 

Parents want schools to produce good state testing results. So it becomes teaching to the tests' expectations.

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Maybe I missed something but I didn't read this article to be espousing starting later so kids could get some academic boost by being older. Personally, that really chaps my hide. My primary concern for when I started ds with school was the behavior issues, specifically attention and hyperactivity, just like the article mentioned, it is so much bigger than who has the best grades. It is about the fact that our pushing of developmentally inappropriate expectations is leading to an explosion in ADHD diagnosis, as has been stated ADHD does truly exist but a chunk of our problem now is mislabeling normal behavior as abnormal and pushing kids beyond what they can handle, which is such a bigger issue than my kid is the biggest kid on the team or the smartest person in their class, those things never even entered my mind and from the parents I've spoken too are similarly minded, we don't want our kid to become one of the statistics. I don't know what the hell was wrong with the standards we held previously for early education, if one has a kid that is ready early then great but don't make the exceptions to the rule the default, most kids aren't ready for what we are pushing on them. 

 

But they do get a boost. I mean - it's all one piece. Kids who are older naturally are more likely to be developmentally ready for other tasks AND be more able to be still and pay attention. Kids who are naturally gifted with traditional academic intelligence like memory skills and so forth will do better... but also kids who are naturally gifted with the ability to be still will do better too.

 

Our expectations for academics are too high in the early grades. AND our expectations for kids to be able to be still and already have their motor skills formed are too high. And both are leading to explosions of diagnoses.

 

I share your frustration. If I had been sending my kids to school, I think I would have thought about red shirting them (or maybe not... their class year is weird because they're the year they changed the cut off from Dec. 30 to Sept. 30). I'm glad I didn't have to think about that. When it comes to your own kids, you have to do what's best for THEM - or, at least, I think that's how most of us think. But when I think about the effects of this trend on schools in general, I don't think it's positive. It's pushing academics and behavior expectations into even more unrealistic territory (yes, along with testing, but it's another factor in the cycle). It's an elitist trend, IMO. It's not good for schools as a whole, even if it's good for individual kids.

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My kids are in music class with 6 kids who are in public school.  5 out of 6 are in K even though they are 6 yrs old.  Moms were very open about their reasons - they wanted their kids to be the "oldest" so they would be "better".  4 out of those 5 kids are girls.  All 5 of those kids have summer bdays.

 

I am probably more judgmental than some of you, but I can't imagine holding my kid back a year just so he is "the best" in his class.

 

That being said, I think it's crazy that school starts this early in US.  I've mentioned this before, where I am from, 1st grade started at 7 and even then you weren't expected to know ANYTHING academic.  Our schools started slow but then definitely made up for it quite nicely at the higher grades.

 

I can't imagine such young kids (5 and 6 yr olds) having the attention span and retention to be able to do the things that are expected at K and 1st grade.  For those reasons I think parents are totally justified to hold them back.

 

Who knows, may be if enough people did that - the G-ds would listen and drop the expectations and change the curriculum for those grades.

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