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Help! 3rd grade girl grammar (speaking and writing) issues...? dyslexia


marylandhsmom
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I don't think my 8 yr old DD is dyslexic -- she can usually spell just fine.  But, sometimes her thought processes aren't clear, and her sentences, or responses to questions, don't come out clearly, or are missing a few words (like a, or the).  Other times she speaks and writes just perfectly fine!  In the cases of her mistakes, she'll go back to reread her sentences and immediately find her error and correct it.  But I can't help but think that she shouldn't be doing this at the third grade level.  We had been using CLE English, and then moved on to BJU and then finally a more CM-ish approach with copywork... but I'm starting to think she needs more drill and practice with basic sentence structure.  AM I wrong in thinking this?  If not, what curriculum would you recommend?  If yes, do you think I should I get her tested for dyslexia?  Or some kind of auditory processing disorder??  Because she doesn't always make grammatical errors, I've hesitated to seek out professional evaluation.  Just trying to see if anyone else out there has had similar experiences?

 

TIA!

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I've seen this problem (the writing example that you gave in your first post) all the way up through high school.  It happens when the brain moves faster than the hand can keep up with.  IME, it's not really something to worry about.

 

As to your second post, sorry.  I don't have experience with this.

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Having read a ton of vintage teacher's manuals, according to Waldorf, CM, and a bunch of others your daughter is normal to advanced.

 

I see a lot of modern CM suggestions that are using vintage 3rd through 5th grade texts with 1st and 2nd graders.

 

Oral sentence composition is traditionally still taught to 3rd graders. Often still in 4th. Sometimes still for early 5th.

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If you want to set your mind at ease, an SLP eval would take care of it.  They will have the CELF or CASL, which look for language problems, and they can talk strategies.

 

Adding: Dyslexia is a phonological processing problem and affects reading.  Is she having issues with reading?  You only mentioned speech and writing.  My ds' dyslexia affects his speech, but it affects it through the phonological processing (errors with multisyllable words, hearing correct sounds in words, etc.).  If you have any ADHD concerns, that would be another way to look.

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Do you read aloud to her and have her listen to lots of audio books? Sometimes kids need to hear many, many great sentences to be able to produce great sentences.

 

You could pull some sentences from her reading and, instead of having her copy them, have her write a sentence with the same pattern but her own words. That way she has to think through agreement between subject and verb (or whatever she's struggling with) but doesn't have to invent a completely new pattern which adds a level of frustration. 

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Yes we read aloud and do audio books... that's a great idea, OvercomingSchool, about the copywork!  Thanks!

 

Thank you so much ladies!  I really do appreciate the feedback and the advice.  I think you're right, we just need to work on specific grammar points, as my DD reads and sounds out new words without difficulty.  

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Fast forward a year and half later, and my DD was diagnosed with "stealth" dyslexia, in case anyone sees this.  :(  Reads fine (only secondary to a great visual memory), spells decently enough but has very poor decoding skills...  Has anyone used Dancing Bears to help with this?

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I have heard good things about Dancing Bears, but haven't used it.  I'm surprised you got that diagnosis.  That is what we are dealing with too.  

 

For what it is worth, interventions are great and important, AND so is accepting that a kid is who they are, and they will have to work a lot harder than others in some areas (and that difference may never go away).

 

For us, phonological processing targeted interventions, as well as metronome type work, have helped quite a bit.  We continue to do copywork, and the Spelling You See program has been good for us as it uses coloring and looking at words and their parts (and is very positive/work-together kind of learning).

 

It is hard to hear that our kids have obstacles and it doesn't feel "fair", but another "for what it is worth" - my child who has this struggle is SOO much better at pushing through difficult things than my other kids are.  It is great training for the hard things that life does throw at all of us, and since they are putting in the hard work of persevering and getting back up again from failures, they reap the reward of being able to do that more gracefully when they need to in other areas of life.

 

ETA: It is interesting that you said that your daughter could read and sound out words without difficulty, but then in testing she had very poor decoding skills.  Why do you think there is this difference between what you have observed in life and what was observed in testing?

Edited by Incognito
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Nonsense words:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

 

Do the optional nonsense words in teachers folder, 50 a day, chart accuracy and wpm rate. Also, select nonsense word version of everything when there is a choice.

 

Phonemic awareness test, you may have to start with something like LiPS to build phonemic awareness before phonics will work.

 

https://www.spelfabet.com.au/2013/02/free-phonological-awareness-test/

Edited by ElizabethB
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I have heard good things about Dancing Bears, but haven't used it.  I'm surprised you got that diagnosis.  That is what we are dealing with too.  

 

For what it is worth, interventions are great and important, AND so is accepting that a kid is who they are, and they will have to work a lot harder than others in some areas (and that difference may never go away).

 

For us, phonological processing targeted interventions, as well as metronome type work, have helped quite a bit.  We continue to do copywork, and the Spelling You See program has been good for us as it uses coloring and looking at words and their parts (and is very positive/work-together kind of learning).

 

It is hard to hear that our kids have obstacles and it doesn't feel "fair", but another "for what it is worth" - my child who has this struggle is SOO much better at pushing through difficult things than my other kids are.  It is great training for the hard things that life does throw at all of us, and since they are putting in the hard work of persevering and getting back up again from failures, they reap the reward of being able to do that more gracefully when they need to in other areas of life.

 

ETA: It is interesting that you said that your daughter could read and sound out words without difficulty, but then in testing she had very poor decoding skills.  Why do you think there is this difference between what you have observed in life and what was observed in testing?

 

Thanks for your response and sorry for the delay!  The dyslexia specialist who evaluated my daughter said that her visual memory of words was very strong and that was compensating for her lack of phonological awareness and ability to decode words.  I think she was nervous during the testing, and that made her "not do as well"... but again the hallmark of dyslexia is inconsistency... even if it is stressors that bring out the inconsistency...  And I'd love to know, what "Phonological processing targeted interventions" did you all do?  

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We have been fortunate enough to have an umbrella-type school which has a large department for kids with different learning needs, and they helped pay for the Fast ForWord program.  It isn't for everyone, but it helped my child make amazing connections and progress a TON, both in reading and in ability to converse with others (my child had before been extremely slow to respond because they were processing the sounds - they are still not lightning fast responding, but they are conversational).  So if samples look like they target your needs, and you can access it, I HIGHLY recommend it.  Tedious as anything, but it really did great things for my child (our umbrella school makes us promise to bribe the kids to do it - I didn't need to purely because of who my kid is, but I understand most people do end up bribing).  

 

 

Violin has helped with a lot of things (metronome work is integrated, as is careful sound discrimination).  We did a number of those dyslexia workbooks as well.  And trampoline and different things suggested by vision therapists - I think trampoline play has been very helpful (but that is not phonological processing in itself).  I love it when "therapies" are just a part of life instead of separate intervention-type things.

 


TBH I don't recall the name of the other online intervention we did - it was pretty hard to tell if it made any positive difference, so I haven't thought about it for a couple of years.   

 

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