Moxie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If you have no idea who I am talking about, thank your lucky stars and move on with your day in blissful ignorance. I have teens who listen to the radio so I know more about this carp than I wish I did. First, I do not get that family. They are the highest followed women on IG, because???? Honestly, I don't get it. And, putting on my judgey pants, I'm having trouble finding sympathy for this guy who signed up to be part of the circus, couldn't deal with it and was found will all the drugs in his system. At the Bunny Ranch. AND do people really believe that, out of all the people in and out of his hospital room, it was Kim Kardasians hand that he squeezed?? Please. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 He had problems long before. Mother died at 10 or 12. Father heroin addict. While successful in the NBA it was predicted based on his troubled past, he would never show his full potential in basketball. That was all before he met his wife. It is just sad 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 PSA: Three days on a Viagra substitute is a BAD IDEA. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have sympathy for him, his kids, and his loved ones. I don't wish addiction or a young death on anyone. From all accounts, he is/was a very nice guy. His former teammates and coaches have all praised his personality (as well as basketball skills). He had an addict for a father and lost his mother young. That's tough. Unfortunately, he's also lost two friends this year to addiction, so that doesn't look good. As much as I dislike the Kartrashians, it did really appear that in spite of their quick marriage, Khloe loved him. Apparently, the breakdown of his marriage was a major cause of his depression. Do I think their support is all for show? No (although perhaps some family members are looking at their image.). It seems like her younger sisters also liked him a lot. As for where his demise happened, not my cup of tea...but at least he went to Nevada where prostitution is legal, and there are some checks regarding health, STDs, etc. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I was just reading an article about this yesterday. Crazy circus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If you have no idea who I am talking about, thank your lucky stars and move on with your day in blissful ignorance. Oh, how I wish!!! And as long as we're on the subject...I think it's disgusting that Cosmopolitan has put them on the cover, calling them America's First Family! I didn't vote for Obama, but the President and his family are the First Family, not the Kardtrashians! I don't read Cosmo, but if I see it at the grocery store check-out I'm going to cover it with some other magazine as my pathetic little silent protest. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter's Moon Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think it's tacky to talk crap about someone as they lie in the hospital on life support. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think it's tacky to talk crap about someone as they lie in the hospital on life support. I don't see how it's any different than talking crap about them when they're fine and healthy? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I feel so bad for him. I have no love lost for the Kardashian clan but they're only a small piece of his story. I wouldn't wish parental death, marital collapse, addiction, poverty, a failed career, or an overdose on anyone. He had both immense talent and dogging demons to manage, and the latter bested him repeatedly. It's just tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter's Moon Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't see how it's any different than talking crap about them when they're fine and healthy? Well, I don't agree with that either. But if he does die, you think his loved ones won't see all the nasty things said about him while he was dying? What's the point in making others feel bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It's just very sad all the way around. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't see how it's any different than talking crap about them when they're fine and healthy? When a person is "healthy" he presumably has the ability to make decisions and change his direction. When a person is on life support he cannot change his direction. Additionally, grieving family don't need crap heaped upon them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Additionally, grieving family don't need crap heaped upon them. Nobody on the internet can heap more crap upon the grieving family than the man himself, simply by the manner in which he was found, the place in which he was found, the substances that police say were found in his blood, the amount of money he spent on his binge and the people he surrounded himself with for days while he declined. I find the story icky. I cannot believe that a man who had a superstar career with the Lakers at their peak of fame, superstar friends, multi million endorsement deals, a loving wife, loving kids, TV shows etc. thought that he did not have enough to fight for. He overcame great adversity to achieve so much, but in the end, he seemed to think that the negatives in his past outweighed all the positives :( truly sad. I believe that even if he makes a miraculous recovery, his quality of life would be very poor due to the damage that he has done to himself. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nobody on the internet can heap more crap upon the grieving family than the man himself, simply by the manner in which he was found, the place in which he was found, the substances that police say were found in his blood, the amount of money he spent on his binge and the people he surrounded himself with for days while he declined. I find the story icky. I cannot believe that a man who had a superstar career with the Lakers at their peak of fame, superstar friends, multi million endorsement deals, a loving wife, loving kids, TV shows etc. thought that he did not have enough to fight for. He overcame great adversity to achieve so much, but in the end, he seemed to think that the negatives in his past outweighed all the positives :( truly sad. I believe that even if he makes a miraculous recovery, his quality of life would be very poor due to the damage that he has done to himself. Wow, that's harsh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 When a person is "healthy" he presumably has the ability to make decisions and change his direction. When a person is on life support he cannot change his direction. Additionally, grieving family don't need crap heaped upon them. I think people should talk about him and his behavior. He had to be carried out of a whorehouse on a stretcher...he'll have to live or die with the consequences. (And I don't wish death on him!) I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel sorry for this guy, Josh Duggar, etc. And they are the ones who should feel ashamed of themselves for the pain they've caused their families. But I always forget...no one is ever responsible for their behavior anymore. We're all victims. And shaming/finger pointing is a no-no. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nobody on the internet can heap more crap upon the grieving family than the man himself, simply by the manner in which he was found, the place in which he was found, the substances that police say were found in his blood, the amount of money he spent on his binge and the people he surrounded himself with for days while he declined. I find the story icky. I cannot believe that a man who had a superstar career with the Lakers at their peak of fame, superstar friends, multi million endorsement deals, a loving wife, loving kids, TV shows etc. thought that he did not have enough to fight for. He overcame great adversity to achieve so much, but in the end, he seemed to think that the negatives in his past outweighed all the positives :( truly sad. I believe that even if he makes a miraculous recovery, his quality of life would be very poor due to the damage that he has done to himself. Again, it was predicted before his career even started that he would not reach his potential because of his past. While some people do overcome difficult ( really, really difficult) pasts many do not. Family history of addiction and depression are powerful demons. And yet he was known as a really nice guy. Yes it's sad when people seem to throw talent away. At the same time you have no idea what this person was fighting against in the first place. That is why is I think it is in bad taste to criticise while he remains sick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 As someone who has been affected by family members who have addictions, I have very little sympathy for anyone involved in this story. He had obstacles to overcome, fine. But he also was given more in the way of money and opportunities than most people. He has children. Just because he had an addiction does not mean he had to spend 4 days at a brothel, with instructions that two blondes be provided to him every 6 hours. That is gross and disrespectful to his family and children. And I wonder ..... everyone is at his bedside hoping he pulls through and I just think "For what? So he can continue to abuse drugs and women?" I know I sound really harsh but I have had more of my life compromised by people who have addictions. To me, they should give those 30-day tokens and 1-year tokens not to the addict, but to the family members affected. They are the ones who should celebrate 30 days without having their lives screwed over by someone. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yes it's sad when people seem to throw talent away. At the same time you have no idea what this person was fighting against in the first place. That is why is I think it is in bad taste to criticise while he remains sick. This is no ordinary guy - what he has achieved is something even one in a million cannot do (drafted by the Lakers at their peak) - meaning that he did not lack will power and discipline. It is a shame that he did not appreciate the good things that were in his life - and threw it all away - I cannot even imagine what his teen kids are going through when they see report after report of their father's misdeeds on their Facebook or instagram or on TV. Through no fault of theirs, they are going to carry this stigma for life :( My sympathy is more with the victims of this episode than the perpetrator. ETA: What I said is not PC, but the truth. There is no criticism, just the facts as I see them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mom2alily Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Wow! The lack of emotion and compassion here is sad:( Is it possible to delete this thread? It's spreading rumors and hatred about someone who is suffering on life support. He is a fellow human... This is a beautiful place to share about learning and encourage one another. Let's keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If you have no idea who I am talking about, thank your lucky stars and move on with your day in blissful ignorance. That would be I. I have never been able to comprehend why people get invested in the lives of celebrities. This thread has not enlightened me either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 When is it ok to criticize someone for making horrible choices that harm themselves and cause the people in their lives immense pain? After they die? While they're in recovery? After they're already recovered? Maybe it's not particularly "nice" to say, but it's also truth and yes, it's ok to point that out. Out of respect for his hurting family, I think everyone should avoid tweeting to them directly or calling names or attacking him verbally (or in writing) but I don't consider it attacking him to say (on a corner of the internet his family is unlikely to stumble on) that what he did was not ok and that even with so many disadvantages in his life, he also had a lot going for him. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Wow! The lack of emotion and compassion here is sad:( Is it possible to delete this thread? It's spreading rumors and hatred about someone who is suffering on life support. He is a fellow human... This is a beautiful place to share about learning and encourage one another. Let's keep it that way. There are forum police. If you think this thread violates the rules, report it. But, talking about a celebrity that is in the news isn't against the rules on the Chat board. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mom2alily Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ok, thank you. It just felt like bullying and I know some teens read these boards too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ok, thank you. It just felt like bullying and I know some teens read these boards too. Like bullying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ok, thank you. It just felt like bullying and I know some teens read these boards too. Here's the Wikipedia definition of bullying - I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mom2alily Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm sorry I just saw some name calling of his family members and I think I am too sensitive to participate on this board. Respectfully stepping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm sorry I just saw some name calling of his family members and I think I am too sensitive to participate on this board. Respectfully stepping out.This thread is definitely ugly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I can feel sadness and disgust at the same time. I didn't know who this man was until he showed up on the national news, and then I got a quick education. He had a very sad childhood; he also had more opportunities given him than the majority. Is hard for me to find what is worthwhile about the Kardashians underneath all the crap printed about them, which they fuel. I hope there was real love in the marriage. Just looking from the outside, the Kardashians and those connected with them appear to be on a collision course. What a mess. And if you put yourself in that position, you're going to be talked about, healthy or fighting for your life. I don't get the whole celebrity thing and how they merit national news time. But I feel I'm the minority. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I feel certain no Kardashian or anyone associated with them is frequenting a classical homeschooling board.....not even our chat board. The thread is not ugly. It is an honest discussion of addiction and the very real chaos it heaps upon innocent victims as well as the addicted. His life makes me very sad. Mom dies when he is 12. Grandmother raises him....then she dies....his father is a heroin addict. He lost a child at 6 months old. And yet he had so much opportunity that most people in that situation would never get. We are all responsible for our choices. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 And if you enter the Kardas-a-circus, you go into it looking to be talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 We can be sad about the fallout of addiction, substance abuse, and poor choices without condoning those behaviors. Sympathy for suffering doesn't mean not dealing with the poor choices leading up to that. If he survives, there is much to work on in his life. If he doesn't, his tale is a powerful one. Money doesn't solve problems, it buys access and new temptations that much easier. Incredible skill or personality doesn't make one immune to consequences of choices. I guess I think there is a way to be cautioned on this without demeaning the man and his friends as they suffer. That doesn't help anything or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateMomster Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I feel sorry for him. He's a person, and every life is a precious one. Hope he survives and turns his life around. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I just saw he is awake and talking. Maybe this will be what he needs to get his act together. Btw, all I know about the Kardahians I know from this board or references in the news. I did try to watch the show one time. That is 15 min I can never get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropymama Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nobody on the internet can heap more crap upon the grieving family than the man himself, simply by the manner in which he was found, the place in which he was found, the substances that police say were found in his blood, the amount of money he spent on his binge and the people he surrounded himself with for days while he declined. I find the story icky. I cannot believe that a man who had a superstar career with the Lakers at their peak of fame, superstar friends, multi million endorsement deals, a loving wife, loving kids, TV shows etc. thought that he did not have enough to fight for. He overcame great adversity to achieve so much, but in the end, he seemed to think that the negatives in his past outweighed all the positives :( truly sad. I believe that even if he makes a miraculous recovery, his quality of life would be very poor due to the damage that he has done to himself. To the first, people on the internet most certainly can add to the crap pile. Salt in the wound. To the second, if you believe all those wonderful things can protect a person from depression and anxiety, to the point of being suicidal, I think you must never have suffered from either, or known anyone well who has. All the fame and money in the world, even a loving family, aren't enough sometimes to pull a person from a deep depression. Neither of these statements are directed at Lamar Odom himself - I don't know much about him or his story. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 The thing that bothers me about all of this is all the "breaking news." I feel bad that his life has spiraled out of control so badly, and hope that his loved ones are finding some comfort, but our local NBC affiliate is posting updates on Facebook several times a day about the Kardashians flying to his bedside and that he opened his eyes. The PR machine from the reality show family is just disgusting. And the supposedly serious news media that is giving this so much attention is even worse. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I feel certain no Kardashian or anyone associated with them is frequenting a classical homeschooling board.....not even our chat board. The thread is not ugly. It is an honest discussion of addiction and the very real chaos it heaps upon innocent victims as well as the addicted. His life makes me very sad. Mom dies when he is 12. Grandmother raises him....then she dies....his father is a heroin addict. He lost a child at 6 months old. And yet he had so much opportunity that most people in that situation would never get. We are all responsible for our choices. You are suggesting that gossip is fine so long as the target won't hear about it. No, gossip is not ok whether or not the target hears about it. It is ugly and this board is public. Let the man rest and his family be at peace. It will sort itself out one way or the other. It is true we are all responsible for our choices, yet it is also objectively true that a rotten childhood environment with parents who died or were uninvolved predisposes one to making unwise decisions. He certainly had an uphill battle in life. Let's hope he can get over this hill and make better decisions in the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If you have no idea who I am talking about, thank your lucky stars and move on with your day in blissful ignorance. I have teens who listen to the radio so I know more about this carp than I wish I did. First, I do not get that family. They are the highest followed women on IG, because???? Honestly, I don't get it. And, putting on my judgey pants, I'm having trouble finding sympathy for this guy who signed up to be part of the circus, couldn't deal with it and was found will all the drugs in his system. At the Bunny Ranch. AND do people really believe that, out of all the people in and out of his hospital room, it was Kim Kardasians hand that he squeezed?? Please. Actually, it was reported that he squeezed KHLOE Kardashian's hand and that it may have just been an involuntary movement. But it sounds like he and Khloe are still very close, so it would make perfect sense that she would have been holding his hand. I wouldn't doubt that you read that it was Kim's hand, though -- the media reports are all over the map about this story. You sound so bitter toward Lamar Odom. It sounds like he is a very nice person who couldn't find a way to control his addictions. And I am certainly no fan of the Kardashians, but it does sound like they love the guy and that they did everything they could to help him overcome his addictions, so in this particular case, I am not going to judge them, just as I wouldn't judge any other family with a loved one in the hospital in such critical condition. Do I think Lamar Odom made very poor choices? Yes. Absolutely. But I still don't want him to die because of those choices, and I don't want his children to lose their father. And do I feel sorry for Khloe Kardashian, because this man was her husband and she is clearly incredibly upset and worried about him. I would hate to see anyone be in her position right now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 We can be sad about the fallout of addiction, substance abuse, and poor choices without condoning those behaviors. Sympathy for suffering doesn't mean not dealing with the poor choices leading up to that. If he survives, there is much to work on in his life. If he doesn't, his tale is a powerful one. Money doesn't solve problems, it buys access and new temptations that much easier. Incredible skill or personality doesn't make one immune to consequences of choices. I guess I think there is a way to be cautioned on this without demeaning the man and his friends as they suffer. That doesn't help anything or anyone. This. Some things just speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 People were pretty negative about Josh Duggar being caught by the consequences of his actions. Why is that okay, but talking negatively about Lamar Odom not? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 People were pretty negative about Josh Duggar being caught by the consequences of his actions. Why is that okay, but talking negatively about Lamar Odom not? I think it is because Lamar Odom may not survive, and also because of the lack of sympathy for the Kardashian family simply because they are the Kardashians. Personally, I can't stand the Kardashians. I think they are complete and utter trash and I wish they would go away. But when a member of their family is in the hospital in a coma, fighting for his life and they are scared and worried and upset about it, they are no longer "the Kardashians" to me. They are just like any other family with a loved one whose life is hanging in the balance. So I feel sorry for them, even though I realize that Lamar Odom's own behavior was what put him in this situation. I would feel very sorry for the Duggars if any one of their kids was in a coma in the hospital, even if it was Josh. I wouldn't wish that kind of pain and fear on anyone. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 People were pretty negative about Josh Duggar being caught by the consequences of his actions. Why is that okay, but talking negatively about Lamar Odom not? I don't know Lamar Odam from Adam, but did he profit from and support an infrastructure that seeks to identify innocent people as dangerous villains while secretly embracing many of the very behaviors he attributed to them and warned others about? If not, there would be your answer. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I feel certain no Kardashian or anyone associated with them is frequenting a classical homeschooling board.....not even our chat board. The thread is not ugly. It is an honest discussion of addiction and the very real chaos it heaps upon innocent victims as well as the addicted. His life makes me very sad. Mom dies when he is 12. Grandmother raises him....then she dies....his father is a heroin addict. He lost a child at 6 months old. And yet he had so much opportunity that most people in that situation would never get. We are all responsible for our choices. It may be an honest discussion about the opinions of members of one community regarding what they understand and experience addictions to be, but it's not reflective of many of the actual facts about addiction. One doesn't simply choose to avoid or stop addictions. One doesn't simply decide what kind of temperament they will be born with or develop, what circumstances will contribute to their behavior, or how they will respond to stress (or even what constitutes as stress). One doesn't simply determine how resilient they will be to spontaneous and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. There are so many unknown variables that stand in the way of our understanding why some people are more resilient to addiction, stress, or trauma than others. Our brains are not fully under the control of our minds, and as many (most?) of our actions are reactions, determined before we are aware of even the event, it's inaccurate to suggest we are all responsible for our choices in the way this phrase implies. While we do have varying degrees of control over agency (some more than others), our behavior does not work through a simple if/then process whereby we determine the consequences before making choices. The facts simply do not support this hypothesis, as familiar as it is, and as normal as it may seem. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlossom Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think it is because Lamar Odom may not survive, and also because of the lack of sympathy for the Kardashian family simply because they are the Kardashians. Personally, I can't stand the Kardashians. I think they are complete and utter trash and I wish they would go away. But when a member of their family is in the hospital in a coma, fighting for his life and they are scared and worried and upset about it, they are no longer "the Kardashians" to me. They are just like any other family with a loved one whose life is hanging in the balance. So I feel sorry for them, even though I realize that Lamar Odom's own behavior was what put him in this situation. I would feel very sorry for the Duggars if any one of their kids was in a coma in the hospital, even if it was Josh. I wouldn't wish that kind of pain and fear on anyone. It seems there's a lot more sympathy for Odam (who I never heard of before today) because of his childhood and the challenges his faced. I agree that it's a sad situation all around. And I do feel bad for him. I hope he recovers and can get on with his life. However, I'm not sure that I consider Odam's actions (soliciting prostitutes, spending days in a brothel doing drugs) any less icky than Duggar's extra marital affairs. It seems to me the media is much more critical of the hypocritical conservative than the guy who spent much of his life making bad choices. I agree that our childhood and life experiences affect how and why we make various choices throughout adulthood. However, I don't think we do anyone any favors when we imply that a person can't overcome their past or that somehow their past limits them. (Not referring to you Catwoman, just the overall tone of this thread) At some point we all have to be accountable for what we do. And I think we can have sympathy for both Odam and Duggar. Both have caused serious damage to their families and relationships because of their poor choices. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBlossom Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It may be an honest discussion about the opinions of members of one community regarding what they understand and experience addictions to be, but it's not reflective of many of the actual facts about addiction. One doesn't simply choose to avoid or stop addictions. One doesn't simply decide what kind of temperament they will be born with or develop, what circumstances will contribute to their behavior, or how they will respond to stress (or even what constitutes as stress). One doesn't simply determine how resilient they will be to spontaneous and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. There are so many unknown variables that stand in the way of our understanding why some people are more resilient to addiction, stress, or trauma than others. Our brains are not fully under the control of our minds, and as many (most?) of our actions are reactions, determined before we are aware of even the event, it's inaccurate to suggest we are all responsible for our choices in the way this phrase implies. While we do have varying degrees of control over agency (some more than others), our behavior does not work through a simple if/then process whereby we determine the consequences before making choices. The facts simply do not support this hypothesis, as familiar as it is, and as normal as it may seem. Does this apply to both Odam and Duggar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 People were pretty negative about Josh Duggar being caught by the consequences of his actions. Why is that okay, but talking negatively about Lamar Odom not? Because I look at addiction differently than I do being a pompous jerk. Lamar was high as a kite when he was using prostitutes. I hold him less accountable for those reasons. And because I don't believe Lamar Odom was trying to lie to people about having a second life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 This is a chat board. If we can chat about Josh Duggar's failings, then we can chat about Lamar Odom's. I know nothing of Odom (other than what is here) and I am NOT a Duggar fan. Both of them demonstrated a serious lack of respectable and responsible behavior, in my opinion. That is what people here are talking about. If I recall correctly, Luanne was criticized in a past thread for saying that people should not gossip about the Duggars. BTW, I disagreed with her comments in that thread. I thought she was out of line, so I'm definitely not defending her. I'm just saying, if it was okay to talk about one, why not the other? The only reason people are talking about Odom now, while he is unconscious, is because that is what brought attention to his behavior. His choices were wrong regardless of if they landed him in the hospital or if he continued on his merry little way of using drugs and women. ETA: I have a feeling that if Josh Duggar was in a coma when we found out about his exploits, people would have been just as hard on him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It may be an honest discussion about the opinions of members of one community regarding what they understand and experience addictions to be, but it's not reflective of many of the actual facts about addiction. One doesn't simply choose to avoid or stop addictions. One doesn't simply decide what kind of temperament they will be born with or develop, what circumstances will contribute to their behavior, or how they will respond to stress (or even what constitutes as stress). One doesn't simply determine how resilient they will be to spontaneous and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. There are so many unknown variables that stand in the way of our understanding why some people are more resilient to addiction, stress, or trauma than others. Our brains are not fully under the control of our minds, and as many (most?) of our actions are reactions, determined before we are aware of even the event, it's inaccurate to suggest we are all responsible for our choices in the way this phrase implies. While we do have varying degrees of control over agency (some more than others), our behavior does not work through a simple if/then process whereby we determine the consequences before making choices. The facts simply do not support this hypothesis, as familiar as it is, and as normal as it may seem. The more I read about consciousness and the brain, the less I believe this to be true. The more I read, the more I think science is telling us that consciousness is a type of perception, a way to perceive what is happening chemically in our brains, and not a way we control or have agency over our actions. An interesting topic, to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It may be an honest discussion about the opinions of members of one community regarding what they understand and experience addictions to be, but it's not reflective of many of the actual facts about addiction. One doesn't simply choose to avoid or stop addictions. One doesn't simply decide what kind of temperament they will be born with or develop, what circumstances will contribute to their behavior, or how they will respond to stress (or even what constitutes as stress). One doesn't simply determine how resilient they will be to spontaneous and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. There are so many unknown variables that stand in the way of our understanding why some people are more resilient to addiction, stress, or trauma than others. Our brains are not fully under the control of our minds, and as many (most?) of our actions are reactions, determined before we are aware of even the event, it's inaccurate to suggest we are all responsible for our choices in the way this phrase implies. While we do have varying degrees of control over agency (some more than others), our behavior does not work through a simple if/then process whereby we determine the consequences before making choices. The facts simply do not support this hypothesis, as familiar as it is, and as normal as it may seem. Maybe Josh Duggar has a sex addiction. And to be clear, I'm not defending his behavior, but I am following your logic on addictions. Perhaps his brain didn't have full control of his mind. I do understand what he did was in direct contradiction to what he stood for and made a living doing, but addicts aren't known for making wise choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Actually, it was reported that he squeezed KHLOE Kardashian's hand and that it may have just been an involuntary movement. But it sounds like he and Khloe are still very close, so it would make perfect sense that she would have been holding his hand. You sound so bitter toward Lamar Odom. It sounds like he is a very nice person who couldn't find a way to control his addictions. And I am certainly no fan of the Kardashians, but it does sound like they love the guy and that they did everything they could to help him overcome his addictions, so in this particular case, I am not going to judge them, just as I wouldn't judge any other family with a loved one in the hospital in such critical condition. Do I think Lamar Odom made very poor choices? Yes. Absolutely. But I still don't want him to die because of those choices, and I don't want his children to lose their father. And do I feel sorry for Khloe Kardashian, because this man was her husband and she is clearly incredibly upset and worried about him. I would hate to see anyone be in her position right now. You have accused me of sounding 'bitter' before. I find that an odd choice of words. I'm not bitter towards LO. I'm disgusted that these idiots and their idiocy are "news". I'm tired of having to censor all the media that comes into my home in case this is the day one of those women decided her a$$ should be public consumption (again). I'm amused by all of the people "praying for Lamar". Really? Did you (general) actually say a prayer or do you just want your name connected to this train wreck? I'm concerned about what social media is doing to the next generation. I have lots of other feels about this issue. But not bitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It may be an honest discussion about the opinions of members of one community regarding what they understand and experience addictions to be, but it's not reflective of many of the actual facts about addiction. One doesn't simply choose to avoid or stop addictions. One doesn't simply decide what kind of temperament they will be born with or develop, what circumstances will contribute to their behavior, or how they will respond to stress (or even what constitutes as stress). One doesn't simply determine how resilient they will be to spontaneous and sometimes insurmountable obstacles. There are so many unknown variables that stand in the way of our understanding why some people are more resilient to addiction, stress, or trauma than others. Our brains are not fully under the control of our minds, and as many (most?) of our actions are reactions, determined before we are aware of even the event, it's inaccurate to suggest we are all responsible for our choices in the way this phrase implies. While we do have varying degrees of control over agency (some more than others), our behavior does not work through a simple if/then process whereby we determine the consequences before making choices. The facts simply do not support this hypothesis, as familiar as it is, and as normal as it may seem. I disagree with all your words in this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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