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And funny how the older generations of spectrum kids that did not have the Social Thinking Company or Zones of Regulation didn't turn into that either!

 

I GET wanting to prove our choices are the best! What I don't get is over-generalizing about a population of people that are primarily non-violent, just to prove a point. Still scratching my head on that one, but that's ok. We believe what we choose to believe!

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Note: The post that my comments are referring to has been deleted, and the relevance of my comments following it, is not as apparent. The post was talking specifically about those on the spectrum and did not turn into the church concerns until a few posts later.

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Note: The post that my comments are referring to has been deleted, and the relevance of my comments following it, is not as apparent. The post was talking specifically about those on the spectrum and did not turn into the church concerns until a few posts later.

There was no those on the spectrum.  There was only one teenage boy acting very disruptive and causing a ton of hurt feelings among my son's friends.  I later found out that he was on the spectrum and doesn't even know it himself.  Yikes!  How this turned into a slam on Cricket or her boys, I have no clue.  This child is very B&W.  OhE stressed grace towards the child and his family.  Again, I don't see the issue.  

 

At the outset of my post, I stated please don't quote because I am going to delete it.  Thank-you OhE and Lecka for the book rec.  I need to purchase the book and figure out a way to tactfully approach the cover with the information.  The kid is generally a nice boy.  It frustrates me that more people cannot come alongside him to support him eta:  because they don't know.

 

ETA.  After the first posting, I quickly went back and edited my post.

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Heather, I'm confused.  Why are *you* buying the book??  This is therapy stuff, and it's meant to be implemented by a therapist.  Some things a motivated mom can pick up and teach at home.  It would be HIGHLY out of line to try to do it to someone else's kid without the parent's permission, and frankly I wouldn't try because it's their JOB.  I'm not thinking you would try, but even for some well-intentioned person in the co-op to try, that's a nope. To me this is really in the category of mention it to them, help them find the directly online of BCBAs (certified behaviorists) and WALK AWAY.  

 

There are lots of people in life who aren't going to get the services we think they need.  Sometimes we have to walk away.  It's the parents' job to decide to get that intervention, not ours.  Even in the ps, the intervention process is dependent on parental permission.  There are plenty of kids who are getting NO social therapy interventions AT ALL for their ASD, even in the ps.  If the parent doesn't ask, doesn't push, it doesn't happen.  

 

Does your co-op have a process for handling problems?  Are they structured to provide for SN and IEPs and services?  I wasn't sure what they do in your state.  In our state, it's a loose conglomeration of women and kids hanging out, no authority, no services.

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Lecka provided a link to Amazon.  I was thinking about picking up that book for the cover and handing it over.  Mercy, no!  I cannot act as therapist to someone else's child nor do I want to.  So, you are saying to pass on the info and walk away?  Yes, I can do that.

 

Yes, the cover has been dealing with the issue using the Bible, but the situation is very uncomfortable for DS right now.  No, there are no trained therapists or specialists.  The cover is a bunch of moms and volunteers pooling resources.

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For the book I linked, I think it is a kind of material that is written as a book for an older student to read on his/her own, and then discuss with an adult. 

 

I think it is written more for parent use than for therapist use.

 

That is my impression from hearing about it at a parent meeting. 

 

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Heather, I have your post in my email notifications and it does not say that you were going to delete or not to quote you. I was not going to and did not mention the details of the case as I do not make it a point of discussing other people's affairs, especially when they are not there to share their part of the story. As for my family, I was the one that spoke about moral standards in this thread and about using discussion with my children to teach social skills. I am just more direct than most.

 

In any case, no worries about me. I am walking away from this thread and board.

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Heather, that's a tricky situation, because you're wanting to teach them and expand their horizons.  I'm sure you'll handle it well, whatever you do.  It's still kinda tricky, like you know the mom is there and some co-op person hands her kid a book and says yeah your social skills suck, read this...  kwim?  Ouch.  And yet to come in and say *Do you realize there are tools actually MEANT for ASD*...  That is a service and educating them.  

 

And maybe for your kids when they're with him, lots of boundaries and things they can say.  Because of course that can happen anywhere, with many SN and situations, that someone is doing something where the dc needs to assert a boundary, have some private space, say no that makes me uncomfortable, etc.  Not that it's your kids' fault, but it at least gives them more tools when they can't change what the other person is doing or dealing with.

 

What happens if you just talk with the mom directly?  Do you even need to go through this (inept) co-op board??

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Apologies... Anna's Mom, I didn't get to reply to your post last night as I had intended! I just wanted to say that I didn't post Alex Mont's story to say that working on social skills is pointless. I think we ALL could use some work in that area! What I was trying to show was that some on the spectrum choose a more solitary life and this right should be respected, without having assumptions and judgements made about their social skills and theory of mind from those who don't understand. Alex was fortunate to be raised by parents that, while doing the best they could, still respected their son's right to make his own choices. Temple Grandin has also chosen to live a solitary life. So, it's not just about teaching social skills, but also about respecting differences, and remembering that parents cannot change their child's nature, regardless of how hard some may try or what methods they may use. Most ASD kids are taught to show respect to others. It would be nice if someone developed some programs for those that need social skills training on how to respect those with special needs and differences!

 

Anyway, all the best!

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Most ASD kids are taught to show respect to others. It would be nice if someone developed some programs for those that need social skills training on how to respect those with special needs and differences!

 

Anyway, all the best!

 

I think that exactly what many schools are trying to do with bringing in programs like Zones and many social thinking programs into the entire school and not just for special needs. Everyone has their own social blind spots and the more we educate all children about being better social thinkers the more everyone will benefit.

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I think that exactly what many schools are trying to do with bringing in programs like Zones and many social thinking programs into the entire school and not just for special needs. Everyone has their own social blind spots and the more we educate all children about being better social thinkers the more everyone will benefit.

I sincerely hope so!

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But kids will be kids...Education on respect for differences needs to start at home, and unfortunately that's not being done in many cases. Even if it is, having parents/teachers try to teach children respect won't change kids who are inclined to be a certain way (and most likely won't change the friends of those kids from mimicking the teasing.) Anti-bullying programs have been in schools for quite awhile, and I don't know how much difference they're making.

 

It's one of the reasons I've kept DD home, because I know she'd probably be subjected to it, and also that she'd be much more sensitive to even small doses of bullying than a neurotypical child, it would just destroy her. (This also goes back to teaching our kids social nuances in the hopes that they won't stick out.)

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I think that really does not do justice to what a good school culture can do. 

 

I don't believe "kids will be kids."  Kids see what is acceptable, and that is what they do. 

 

I think it is unfair to kids, to assume they will be bullies.  I think it is fair to assume they will be curious about differences, and to assum they will ask questions.  I think it is fair to assume they will copy behavior they see around them, too.

 

But none of that is the same as assuming kids will just naturally be bullies. 

 

But, I agree, parents are the most important influence!  It does need to start at home!

 

I do know I accept my kids to hold certain values as they are able, and I think my values are the same as for others in my community. 

 

I live in a small town, though.  It is really pretty homogenous. 

 

I have lived places where I don't think I would say anything like this, because I have felt like the community values around me were not values I thought were acceptable. 

 

Edit:  This is one of my pet peeves, b/c locally my kids are in a school that does have a good school culture.  The school culture is more desirable than the education level, I think.  I do not like to hear local homeschoolers, who do not know anyone in the school, tell gossip about how schools are these days, drawn from national news or national internet posts.... they have nothing to do with the school my kids attend.

 

And, on the flip side, I have spent a lot of daytime hours at parks and at the local library, and I have seen some very cliquish homeschoolers.... one time I watched two women discuss and discuss how great their Lego club was, and another woman with them asked if she might be able to join.  They looked her up and down, and then went "no, I don't think so." 

 

But I have met some great homeschoolers, too, mostly I meet great ones. 

 

But I prefer for people to say they like the family environment for their kids, or the personalized education.  Or, the opportunities to do a lot of activities without being overscheduled.  Or, the ability to make a lot of visits to grandparents and cousins.  Or, the freedom to not be tied down to the public school schedule.  Adjusting family time around a parent's work schedule.  Meeting kids where they are, following their interests.  Etc. 

 

 

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Good points Anna's Mom! My son is also very sensitive to bullying and would be highly affected emotionally. He may not always get that expecting other kids to like or want to listen to what you like is not considerate, or that he is talking too much about the things he likes. He would never bully another kid though! He has been my greatest help with his little brother when daddy is at work! I wonder how many of the kids that were bullying Alex Mont got social skills training! Anyway, the sad realities :(

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I think that really does not do justice to what a good school culture can do. 

 

I don't believe "kids will be kids."  Kids see what is acceptable, and that is what they do. 

 

I think it is unfair to kids, to assume they will be bullies.  I think it is fair to assume they will be curious about differences, and to assum they will ask questions.  I think it is fair to assume they will copy behavior they see around them, too.

 

But none of that is the same as assuming kids will just naturally be bullies. 

 

But, I agree, parents are the most important influence!  It does need to start at home!

 

I do know I accept my kids to hold certain values as they are able, and I think my values are the same as for others in my community. 

 

I live in a small town, though.  It is really pretty homogenous. 

 

I have lived places where I don't think I would say anything like this, because I have felt like the community values around me were not values I thought were acceptable. 

 

Maybe I'm just paranoid...But I know what I saw growing up, in a reasonably good area with mostly concerned parents, and I know what I see in the news. I believe people are inherently good, but I also believe that in most schools there are at least a handful of kids who will act a certain way, either because of their own social issues (we had that problem with a kid in the camp I sent DD to last summer, a counselor actually told me he had "his own issues" as a kind of excuse for how he was treating her), because of problems at home, or because he wants to lift himself up by putting other people down. Most kids won't follow that lead, but most won't try to protect the kid being bullied either.

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Well, honestly I would worry, but my son who is at risk for bullying (in generall) has an older broth and twin sister in the same school, and they both watch out for him. 

 

But I have not heard anything of concern, with my oldest son in the 5th grade. 

 

The principal is very committed to the anti-bullying program.

 

I think it has to do with the principals.  If the principal thinks it is a joke and just goes through the motions, it is hard for the teachers. 

 

If the principal and the teachers both value all children, then it can be a great atmosphere.

 

All 3 of my kids got a character award at the same assembly last year... my younger son for sharing toys, my daughter for helping a classmate pick up spilled crayons, and my older son for inviting kids to play with him at recess.  I am very proud. 

 

It is also nice b/c my older son is not one who would be recognized for academics or athletics, but the character awards are very valued, too. 

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Oh, in response, many kids would go home and tell their parent, and then the parent would contact the teacher. 

 

Your child told you.

 

The camp just had a totally inadequate response. 

 

The camp sends a message that the behavior is acceptable. 

 

That is how I see it.

 

The camp could make other choices that allow them to be compassionate to the child in question, while also showing the other children that the behavior is not acceptable or rewarded.  It is possible to do that without shaming that kid as a bad kid. 

 

Of course -- lots of places do one of those.  But it doesn't have to be that way. 

 

I also see horrible things in the news, and one of my kids is at risk of restraint and seclusion.  His school has policies and training in place.... but I still watch this and I have been in and out of the more private areas many times, just to "drop something off," so I can see how things are going. 

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AM, I think you have separate issues there.  One is how the dc will be treated in the ps.  I don't have a dc in the ps right now, but my impression, from working with our local ps (which is not glitzy, just normal/middle of the road with a fair chunk of kids in poverty in the district) is that they make EXTREME effort to nip bullying.  So it would really depend on the school culture, as Lecka says.

 

Your 2nd issue there is the camp, the counselor, and who is allowed to teach your dc.  You didn't have evals at the time.  You now have evals and know that your dc has a set of labels that almost no teen is qualified to handle.  Your dc should not be supervised by someone unqualified to handle them, because that's not setting EITHER of them up for success.  I'm EXTREMELY picky about who supervises my ds, because it makes a difference.  So yes that boy counselor had weaknesses, but he was not qualified to handle what was thrown at him.  I leave my ds with specific adults, people who have the maturity and mental/emotional reserves to handle the unexpected.  I can think of only *2* times my ds has been with a teen.  One was the swim class where the teen was ghost teaching (apprenticing) in a situation with three teachers, and she nearly let him drown, letting him go under so much that she was traumatized.  NOT qualified to handle, and they axed that and kept him with other teachers in the class after that.  He's also in a gymnastics class with a teen teacher.  It's a low level class, and she does a fabulous job with him in general but *cannot handle* the unexpected.  For instance, he wet in the class (like it was all over the mats), and she was right on the edge of freaking out.  She didn't, but he had maxed out her ability to handle the unexpected, kwim?  Like she could handle him for an hour, but she could never handle him for a longer time or overnight or something.  

 

As Kbutton told me one time, we're so close to it we forget how challenging he is and how different from the norm he is.  We're just used to it and don't realize how much we're constantly compensating for.  

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Maybe I'm just paranoid...But I know what I saw growing up, in a reasonably good area with mostly concerned parents, and I know what I see in the news. I believe people are inherently good, but I also believe that in most schools there are at least a handful of kids who will act a certain way, either because of their own social issues (we had that problem with a kid in the camp I sent DD to last summer, a counselor actually told me he had "his own issues" as a kind of excuse for how he was treating her), because of problems at home, or because he wants to lift himself up by putting other people down. Most kids won't follow that lead, but most won't try to protect the kid being bullied either.

Good points again Anna's Mom! Especially the last one. I experienced that growing up. I did not see color differences, nor did I notice that my first best friend and her sister were the only black kids in our school. She was bullied and I dealt with it with her. We were about 8. I got really close to giving up the friendship but followed what I felt God was directing me to, without guidance from my parents or the school. I stuck by my friend and was her only friend that year. Her family moved after schools closed for the summer. I think to a certain degree we are born with it, nature and nurture. Once that is the case, there's only so much social skills training will do.

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All 3 of my kids got a character award at the same assembly last year... my younger son for sharing toys, my daughter for helping a classmate pick up spilled crayons, and my older son for inviting kids to play with him at recess.  I am very proud. 

 

It is also nice b/c my older son is not one who would be recognized for academics or athletics, but the character awards are very valued, too. 

That's awesome!!  I would be proud too!!  :)

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I think to a certain degree we are born with it, nature and nurture. Once that is the case, there's only so much social skills training will do.

Maybe you're missing that a huge component of "social skills" is about self-monitoring and executive function?  EF is developmental and responds to intervention. 

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Oh, in response, many kids would go home and tell their parent, and then the parent would contact the teacher. 

 

Your child told you.

 

The camp just had a totally inadequate response. 

 

I actually saw it happening firsthand...Anna had told me two of the boys were mean, I stayed one morning just to hang out because I wanted to see how she was doing with socialization and this kid started calling her "Thing." She told him her name was Anna and he repeated, "No your name is THING," after which his "crony" joined in. There was NO response from either counselor (either because they were young, or because they didn't hear.) The kid also laid on top of her later that morning, she kept saying "I don't like that," but nobody made a move until I physically pulled the kid off. I talked to the camp director later, and that was the response I got.

 

Luckily she was only there for 2 weeks, mornings only, or I would have pulled her out. But yeah, this is what I'm scared of. I know there would be more oversight in school, more controls, but I also know there are things that go on that teachers don't see, they don't have 20 eyes to watch 20 kids.

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My oldest son also got an award at an all-school assembly when he improved in reading in 1st grade (though still below grade level).  His teacher thought he had worked really hard and made a lot of progress.  He got his picture up on a poster outside the cafeteria for the rest of the school year. 

 

It was really special. 

 

Believe me, I know a lot of places do not have any award for a child who is below grade level in reading..... no matter if that child is working harder than some other kids who are more advanced. 

 

I just also know that people in my town will not send their kids to my kids' school b/c of things they watch on the news, that I also abhor, but that are not present here. 

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Oyi, the realities are a lot harsher than most of you think! Especially in the big cities and area does not make too much of a difference. My oldest was bitten at two different daycares when I was working. The last one, in the face. These were both private daycares and paid by my employer. The last one was on his 2nd birthday while he was passing out coloring books and crayons that I sent with him as gifts for all the other kids. The care provider said to me "Eventually they learn to defend themselves." Really? I kept him home a month after that.

 

Please don't tell me about the harsh realities you may not know anything about! My husband was bullied all throughout school because of his color, height (very tall), and being quiet and into his books. He had to fight his way all throughout middle school. There isn't an aggressive bone in his body now, just like there wasn't one then.

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AM -- I would have got my money back.  Totally unacceptable.  Totally, totally unacceptable. 

 

And, I do have a 5th grader who is definitely old enough to have judgment and tell me what goes on at school.  We are actually pretty close. 

 

I don't know if I will feel this way about middle school, I may not, but I am confident about the elementary school. 

 

I also feel like I have spies, b/c my younger son has a home ABA program that employs a lot of people who also work as paras in the schools at times.... I feel like I have got a lot of inside gossip. 

 

So ----- these are just factors for me, in feeling like it is not an impersonal place where nobody cares what goes on or bothers to supervise the children or intervene in problems.  That is not what I see.

 

I also know how my son is treated when we see classmates out and about. 

 

Kids come up to him to say hello or ask him for a high five.  If he does not respond (and I try very hard to get him to!) then they say "that is okay" and will still be happy to see him again.  That shows what is modelled for them at school.

 

Earlier this year, a boy from his Kindergarten came up to him and hugged him after school, and told me "he was in my class last year." 

 

Things like this also contribute to me thinking it is a nice place. 

 

It has taken kids at church a lot longer to get used to him, they are still more shy around him, because they only see him once a week at church.  It is better at school. 

 

The kids at church are extremely nice and well-brought-up kids, too, they just do not have the same exposure.   

 

 

 

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I have not said one thing about anyone else's harsh realities. 

 

I am just sharing my kids' very nice reality.

 

I agree, there are horrible things going on in many places. 

 

I am not denying things that happen other places.  I also am sharing ways to investigate and try to make sure that it is NOT a situation where it looks good on the surface, everything clean and shiny, but underneath it is not a nice place.  That is a real concern to me, too. 

 

Edit:  I also would think, for an adult who was bullied or had a bad school experience, it would be nice to hear about changes in schools that have taken place in at least some schools, so that they may be much nicer places. 

 

It is very healing for me.  It means a lot to me that my kids can be in this nice environment, b/c it is not what I had growing up, either. 

 

But I do not have any agenda of wishing a harsh school to appear nice. 

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I am also not sure when I turned into one of "those parents," but if I see kids misbehave, I get onto them.  I tell them what they should do. 

 

I will tell the directors if I don't think their bored college student employees are doing their jobs.

 

But I am mostly not putting my boys in very much right now.  It is kind-of sad.

 

I am also one of those people who asks around and only signs up for things that are special-needs friendly, or very structured, or have an experienced teacher, etc. all that boring stuff. 

 

My daughter is one where she can do anything if she wants to, but my sons cannot just be thrown in to sink or swim.  They have to have the structure and the things taught by classroom teachers instead of college students in the summers. 

 

So I would both not put up with it, and probably have heard about the set-up and not thought it was an option in the first place for either of my boys. 

 

I hear people say they are worried about speaking to other people's kids, but I speak very respectfully.  I have not had a problem.  I also live in the kind of place where a mother of 3 kids can talk to kids and not worry about being told off. 

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Maybe you're missing that a huge component of "social skills" is about self-monitoring and executive function? EF is developmental and responds to intervention.

Perhaps, due to my interest in criminology, I have a bit more insight on these matters than you may have?

 

Anyway, take care everyone!

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Lecka, I have to admit that I didn't speak respectfully to him, my emotions probably got the better of me. I'd do it again, though, my blood is still boiling.

 

Luckily she loved the program anyway (even though she had a number of difficulties there, with bolting and not following directions.) She's gotten much better now that I know what the issues are and we've been working together, so I do wonder how she'd do now. It was a great program in other ways, I hate for her to miss out on these kinds of things...That makes me sadder than anything else these differences have done to her really.

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Lecka, I have to admit that I didn't speak respectfully to him, my emotions probably got the better of me. I'd do it again, though, my blood is still boiling.

 

Luckily she loved the program anyway (even though she had a number of difficulties there, with bolting and not following directions.) She's gotten much better now that I know what the issues are and we've been working together, so I do wonder how she'd do now. It was a great program in other ways, I hate for her to miss out on these kinds of things...That makes me sadder than anything else these differences have done to her really.

When you put her in programs like that, disclose her challenges and be blunt.  Let them up their supervision and assign someone to her.  It can be done discretely.  For instance, if they have two counselors assigned to a group, they might chose the more advanced person and have them keep an extra eye on her.  And then each day you can show up afterward and get a recap of how things went, showing that you're checking and want to know.  I ALWAYS follow through like this.  I show the level of care I want them to have and keep their attention appropriately on him.  I send updates before therapy sessions too, so the therapist knows what state he is in.  

 

Yes, if a dc is bolting and needs extra environmental controls and support, whoever is working with her needs to know that.  Random teens are not capable of handling that.  That's WAY beyond the norm for what a dc would be doing.  I worked in K5 for 3 years and we regularly had 30-35 kids in a class.  We had NO problem controlling our classes, but we did not have many with SN.  (it was a university school)  We just get used to our kids and lose our frame of reference to realize other kids don't need these supports to function.

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Btw, I'm not discounting the process you (AM) are going through.  It is very hard for me to walk up to some new teacher/scenario and say oh btw he has ASD.  I don't even bother if it's someone who doesn't have enough experience to process that information.  Like with the teen gymnastics teacher, I'll just say he has some SN, if you need anything I'm here, his change of clothes is in his bag, he may have trouble self-advocating and asking for things or feeling pain and to watch him extra carefully.  But with an adult, I'll say he has a mixture of diagnoses including apraxia and ASD, and they'll reply with their usual "Oh, he seems normal to me!" which then puts me in the awkward position of either saying YEAH HE DOESN'T HAVE HORNS ON HIS HEAD or saying Thanks that means our interventions are working.  I usually go for the latter.  

 

I'm just saying, it IS awkward.  The more you use the labels, the more you say you know this isn't going away, the more you can advocate for her.  Because reality is as she acquires skills she's STILL behind her peers.  She's improving relative to herself, but she's still behind relative to her peers.  So as the expectations increase, she's just moving forward, never actually catching up.  And maybe your kid has.  I'm just saying time doesn't stand still.  So I advocate.  I go in and use whatever word it takes to get ds as much extra eyeballs in that situation as it will take to help him function properly.  And I try only to leave him with qualified people.  And until I know they're qualified, I hawk him in the class.  Because if he makes a situation they can't handle, it ain't gonna be pretty.  One incident is all it takes to shift our kids to refusing to do a sport, an activity, a location, an anything.  They have brains like eagles and incredible memories.  My ds spent MONTHS after that dunking saying he would drown, refusing to try to go under.  It was horrible.  All because one 16 yo girl was in-ept for 2 seconds.  That's all it takes.

 

Wow, what a tangent, lol.  

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My younger son is at a level where he honestly needs aide support through his ABA agency, AND he needs to be in something that is a realistic choice. 

 

Right now we are using those hours for church.  This means he participates in Sunday School and Kids' Worship.  This means he will be in the Christmas Pageant. 

 

I agree totally with the need to coordinate with people. 

 

It is hard to get started with.

 

I am maybe a little too pulled-back and just wanting to do things where others have blazed a path before me with their kids participating, I don't know.  But even if I pick the things where I know they will do their best, and be pro-active, and listen, that might not be enough.  I have to have that, though!  That is a minimum! 

 

I need to be realistic about what is a good choice, too, though. 

 

Last year I didn't think I needed support for him at church (where people are nice and make an effort!) and he was going to boys and girls club.  It was nice, but even with supports, his participation was a little bit limited.  At the same time, it was a great experience for him and he did have new opportunities.  But it was less than what I wished it would be. 

 

Then I realized I really do need support for hiim at church and that is my priority for now.

 

This is part of why I like public school ---- he can have his needs really met at public school (this is with his situation, b/c he qualifies for aide support at school ----- so this is pretty specific for him), but it is harder to meet them other places.  So he can have a lot of good experiences at school, and then other than school, I am free to do family things and church.  So, we do errands and little trips, we go to the pumpkin patch, etc, but I am not trying to involve him in formal activities right now, and it is a relief for me that I don't have to, b/c it would be very hard. 

 

He does also have drama therapy twice a week after school right now, which he loves, and Thursday night he comes to church and it is playtime so he does not need aide support for that. 

 

At this point, for any activity, he would start out with aide support (through our agency) and then fade back to not needing aide support.  So, we would already be involved by the time it got to that point.   So, that is a different situation, too, and it means the aide support person can tell me if things are run well or not. 

 

I also went and observed at Boys and Girls Club, in addition to talking to some people there.

 

If you know some things that tend to work well or not, observing can be really helpful. 

 

If you don't know, and you observe, at least you can be figuring it out for the future. 

 

But I do recommend observing in the prior session.  I have done this with summer programs just b/c many of them do community outings and I have seen them out in the community.  For other things, you can observe in the previous session. 

 

I think there a lot of people who WANT for kids to participate and want to help them to have a good experience.  You just have to find them!  For a lot of things, that is not enough for my sons.  My older son just does not do well with a lot of transitions, so no matter how nice it is, if there are a lot of transitions, it is going to be hard for him, and it is not going to be a good option for him.  Not always, it is certain kinds of things that I know, b/c sometimes he can do fine with transitions.  But I know what has been a problem for him in the past.  And I do want him to be challenged with a little more, but it is something I take into account for him to be set up for success and a litlte bit of growth. 

 

 

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Oh, I also think, at a certain point, I do have to prioritize the neat program that is ALSO well-run.  I need both, sometimes.

 

For my daughter, I can overlook some things that truly would either not bother her, or that she would be able to handle herself.  She is a great self-advocate, lol, she has two brothers!  I see that with some kids who have to speak up for themselves in the family.... It is not always the best, there are drawbacks, but she does speak up for herself and she can generally hold her own.  I wouldn't want her to be in a situation not appropriate for her, but she fits into age-level expectations very well, and I think a borderline well-run program would be fine for her. 

 

But I would always prefer a very well-run program.

 

For my older son, it either needs to be a really, really good fit for him, or it needs to be very well-run and have someone looking out for him.  If it is a really, really good fit, then that kind-of takes care of everything.  But few things are.  Then, he does need it to be particularly well-run. 

 

I would encourage you to ask around and look around. 

 

It can be worth it to look for the 2nd-choice program, if it seems like it is run in a better way, sometimes. 

 

You also want something that is a good fit for her personality.  She sounds like she might like some more music or acting type things, just because maybe that will fit her personality, maybe.  (Maybe!)  When there are kids with her personality, that is a lot easier. 

 

If you sign her up for an active, outdoors activity, well, of course that is attracting some rowdy kids in a way that music or acting may not. 

 

Some parents are going "indoors, no, we need outdoors" and it is b/c their kids are rowdy.

 

If your daughter's attention was captured by the music or whatever, b/c that is her interest, it could end up being a good fit. 

 

But it is hard to say!  I think sometimes you just have to try things!  And try to look and see what factors are present, that either help or hinder.  B/c it may be little things like how their time is structured, transitions, how some things are supervised, etc, more than the activity. 

 

You also may want a more gentle thing, or a more competitive thing.  If she thrives with one or the other, it is very important to get the right fit, or kids can feel very out of place. 

 

But I think it is worth it to keep trying things out, and finding out what works and what doesn't! 

 

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