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I don't know. I sort-of unschooled science because I *wasn't* passionate about it but my daughter was. I found that she learned more when I stepped back out of her way. I let her choose books, activities, experiments, science fair projects etc... with minimal guidance from 5th-8th grade. (Minimal guidance means I did put some boundaries up--I suggested options for the main year's curriculum and she narrowed down the choice to one she wanted. I told her to work for 30 minutes minimum on science per day, but she chose what to do. I asked her to tell me what she was doing at least once a week, and to write, record, or draw something in her science journal at least once a week. Otherwise, she chose what to read or what experiments to do, found materials to substitute for things we didn't have or put things on a "to purchase" list if needed, and basically taught herself from a variety of resources. One year she won a year's subscription to Supercharged Science with her science fair project. In high school she won a copy of Apologia Advanced Biology, which she'll probably opt to use next year.

 

I do think that to be a successful unschooler, you have to be diligent about strewing and have some technology boundaries in place. I think the idea of having passion to help them get interested is helpful if your version of unschooling is more modeling-based. 

 

Bloom where you're planted. If your passion is family and faith (awesome!), then instead of trying to make your school into something completely foreign, major on your passions. Time spent together is so important, and passing on your faith is important. Make sure your kids get a good, well-rounded education in whatever way you prefer and that works for them too, and then make sure they have time to pursue THEIR passions. That's more the way I approached things--what did my kids want to learn? How could I incorporate that, either "formally" or "informally?" Other than that one subject I wouldn't consider anything I did as "unschooling," but I would definitely say I paid a lot of attention to interests and did some interest-led schooling as well as a lot of eclectic things (putting together resources or whole courses because of their interests). 

 

My passions were in the areas of reading aloud, family, faith, helping others (serving a neighbor or visiting an elderly friend and seeing how we could help, etc..., baking treats and taking them to various people, etc...) I tried to open horizons to other interests through reading aloud and service. I may not want to do science experiments, but I can say "Wow, I never knew that!" as I'm reading something history or science related...and so on. My oldest had an interest in history, and I often let him choose research topics that were history-related. One semester in high school I made a whole curriculum around his interest in Japanese History. We also studied sharks in 2nd grade because of his interest (and found a local class that did a dissection!) There are all kinds of options and opportunities if you are watchful--and as a mom who is interested in family, that's something you CAN do.

 

In their spare time, my kids have explored painting, sculpture, music, modifying nerf guns, games that require some knowledge of probability like pokemon and bakugon (hey, I found something those are good for, LOL!) legos, imaginary play, exercise routines (my oldest is into learning kendo moves through you-tube currently--he's in college this year but the interest started in high school)...

 

All that to say that if your concern is wanting your kids to develop and pursue interests, that doesn't mean you have to switch to unschooling. Consider other ways to make those things happen. Have fun and let your school be a unique reflection of YOU and your family :-).

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I read your post before you deleted it (why?!) but hadn't responded because I was mulling.

I do think unschoolers tend to have over-arching themes to their lives which generally correspond to their passions. I liken it to a TV sitcom: there is the BIG storyline that carries over season after season but the may be several episodes that have their own smaller storyline, etc.

One of my favorite unschooling blogs is by a single mom and her son (like me); in fact, our sons have the same name. Their BIG storyline is travel and cultures so they live wherever life takes them and learn how to make money like indigenous people's do and it's amazing.

My goal this year is to get more and more on the unschooling boat (because i think that is really what would fit our personalities the best) so I'm mulling over how exactly I want that to look like with my need to work and our other commitments, how to fully embrace my passions and help DS find his and just in general how to unschool WELL. I think it's going to take some times to figure out how to transform my passions-in-an-ideal-world into passions-in-the-real-world.

 

I don't know if that's what you are talking about and I'm kind of rambling a bit...

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Yeah, I went to bed last night thinking about it. It was a good post! So what about passion? Good thing? Bad thing? Indifferent? 

I think the answer lies in an understanding of what passion looks like in different people. It's not the same for everybody. I think it's easy to look at someone doing or acting "passionately" and to admire it, because passion is an emotional response and invokes an emotional response. It's pragmatism that comes in later and reminds us of just how much fuel is needed to keep that blaze going. 

But here's what I think about passion. If we consider passion to be like a fire, we have to remember that there are different kinds of fires. There are wildfires, bonfires, hearth-fires, and candle-fire. All have their purposes. A hearth-fire doesn't look like much-just a few sticks, a good bed of coals, a gentle glow, steady warmth. A person with this kind of passion won't "look" passionate. They have great warmth in their spirits for a few things, and do many things well, because they don't take huge amounts of energy to make more fire than they need. And yet, they make everything warmer, brighter and more conducive to a peaceful, creative environment. 

I do think a certain amount of passion is needed to educate--in whatever way that is chosen. But I don't think one has to blaze with passion to be a passionate individual. 

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I'm sad I missed your original post!  This is a great discussion.

 

I was thinking the same thing!

 

Some thoughts:  who decides which passions are legitimate and which aren't?  Why would faith and family be any less valuable than STEM?  

 

I am happiest when we homeschool authentically, when I'm like, "Hey this is who I am, this is who my kids are, and we're not going to try to be any other family out there."  

 

For us, faith, family, art in all its forms, and the belief that we are each wonderfully unique with something important to offer to the world are our core values (passions).  How this plays out is kind of up to the season of life, what the kids are up to, what DH and I are into, etc.  I like that it doesn't box us in.

 

And I have NO idea if any of what I just wrote was even relevant but it's what popped in my head. :)

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I, too, went to bed last night pondering this post.  Why, oh why did you delete it, Sahamamama!? 

 

I've been pondering this moreso as I watch my kids lately.  My oldest I can understand--he attacks anything that interests him with his whole being.  He loves math, maps, and guitar, so he spends hours obsessing over those passions, pursuing them, practicing them.  He gives them his all and keeps at them if he hits a stumbling block, working until he's past.  If I take away some of the time he usually spends on those passions, he's positively brokenhearted.

 

DD has passions, but she seems to...I guess "settle" more.  Meaning she'll be excited to do something, but she's fine not giving it her all.  Frankly, she's fine not doing it at all.  This past week she broke her arm.  I thought she'd be devastated that she'd have to forego the last five weeks of the soccer season and miss a bunch of dance classes...but she's not.  She asked to do those activities, enjoyed them, was always excited on the day they occurred...but she's perfectly fine not doing them.  I just can't wrap my mind around that.

 

For that, I wonder how DD would do unschooling.  I think ODS would focus mostly on his passions, but he's always asking questions and pursuing answers, so I think he'd end up with a pretty well-rounded education.  Would DD?  I fear that she'd just float from one thing to the next, scratching the surface but never going deeper.  Maybe she'd surprise me.  I do think we all have an innate drive to master difficult things.  Her difficult things seem to be physical.  She rarely seems to be interested in mental challenge, though she has a perfectly capable mind.  Then again, perhaps without me supplying the challenge, she'd seek it on her own?

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 I thought she'd be devastated that she'd have to forego the last five weeks of the soccer season and miss a bunch of dance classes...but she's not.  She asked to do those activities, enjoyed them, was always excited on the day they occurred...but she's perfectly fine not doing them.  I just can't wrap my mind around that.

 

Random: So, while my daughter, who is talented at violin but who has not yet developed passion for it (she's six), practices, I listen to the boy in the next room. I think he's nine. He sounds way better than my child for so many reasons. He's Korean and it's hard for me to tell his age but he must be in the upper elementary grades. He's very talented and on top of it it sounds like he practices. He really sounds good. Sometimes you can hear real style and feeling coming from him. Once I even mentioned to his teacher (not my daughter's teacher, but in the same group) how much I enjoyed hearing him play--how I hoped my daughter would get to that stage. She said his mother was dedicated and that he was too and how much they practiced. Anyway, this kid always kind of hopped into class and I thought, "What a gift. I wish my kids had that passion."

 

WELL. The other day there was a scheduling error with his teacher, I guess. And as the teacher said to his mom, "I'm so sorry but his slot was at four--I have someone else right now--" this huge grin spread across his face and he literally skipped right out of there through the store without missing a beat. I thought it was amusing and adorable, that childish, impish grin as he evaded class. "Mom screwed up! WOOHOO!" I imagined him to be such a dedicated student, and he is, he must be, to play so well. But he is still an eight-nine-ten-year old boy.

 

I think we forget what it was like to be children. Even those who grow up to be so dedicated, most of them are still kids at heart, and the idea of a bunch of free time is so exciting to them. :)

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Sorry. :blushing: I suppose I was embarrassed to admit that I have struggled with this all my life. I enjoy so many things. I am reasonably good at quite a few things, but not exceptional with much of anything. My husband just walked by and he contests this. He says I am amazing at a lot, LOL. Well, shucks.... :blushing:

 

Still. When I read unschooling articles (gleaning ideas, more on that below), it seems as though the driving force for successful unschoolers is "finding your passion." And then I think, "Well, I'm nearly 49 and I can't say I've ever found mine!"

 

I like to cook. I cook because I have a family to feed. I am NOT a foodie. I enjoy cooking, but it isn't my passion.

 

I like to craft, at times. I craft because sometimes we need a skirt, a costume, a new wreath for the door, a gift for someone who likes homemade things. I enjoy crafting, but it's not my passion.

 

Same with gardening, yard work, cleaning, traveling, and so much more. I do those things, I can be reasonably proficient in those areas, but I am not passionate about them. Behold, the weed. I pull it. I throw it away. I hope and pray it wasn't poison something. Yard work is yard work, you know? But some people are insane about their yards! Some people are nuts about crafting or cooking or photography or animals or _____. The amount of energy that goes into some blogs or projects... when do these people sleep?

 

I suppose I am passionate about sleep. Huh. So there's at least one thing. :biggrinjester:

 

Even with work-before-kids, I had jobs, I had degrees, I was good at what I did, but I wasn't exactly passionate. Not even about social work, though I did put some heart into that. But, a job is a job, you know? I had bills, work equals money. Therefore, I worked. But it's just a job. I could take it or leave it. Oh, yeah, I did leave it, LOL. Never missed it, either, not for a moment.

 

I don't actually remember most of my OP, but it was along the lines of "finding your passion." I have been pondering something about our homeschool lately, something I think is missing. I cannot figure it out. The girls are happy, I am happy, we do our work, we enjoy it, we are all learning and growing, but...

 

But what? It's as though, having been on these boards for so long, I feel I have a blind spot. I know I am not seeing something, something that -- for my family -- will turn out to be vitally important. 

 

No offense to these boards, though. This has been a (mostly) safe place for me for years (and I hope it stays that way). ;) These boards certainly don't create the expectation to do the "one right way" of homeschooling! No, there is a good diversity here that is refreshing, so it's not that I feel hemmed in by board pressure.

 

It's just that... well, how I formulate "school" in my thinking is too much (?) of one kind of thing, I think.

 

We get up, we get ready for school, and we... sit. We stay home and we sit. We sit and we work. We sit and we sit and we sit. And that is how we conceptualize "learning," that is how we have framed our (almost) entire definition of "school." We sit and do Math. We sit and do Grammar. We sit and do Composition, Spelling, Vocabulary, History, Latin, French, Music, Science, Geography, and so on. Then we go to Awana and sit some more. Church midweek, sit some more. Choir... oh, well, they stand up in choir.

 

When the girls were younger, the workload was less, so they sat less. I suppose we either have to (1) adjust to the increased time-in-seat, or (2) figure out other ways to learn. So this was probably part of the impetus for posting, "I would be a (part-time) unschooler if... I could find my passion." ;) Sorry I deleted it.

 

Anyway, you all are just so tolerant of my musings! I am happy with what we are doing this year, and can see this rolling into at least a part of next year (4th/4th/6th). We have solid work lined up, and we are all enjoying it. I truly have no worries about at least the next 12-15 months, but at some point in our next school year, I know that something will need to meaningfully change, though only for a season. So that was the question at the heart of this post, also by me.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/566861-middle-school-gap-year-have-you-ever-heard-of-this/

 

I think that, because I am slow to change conceptually, and have a hard time shifting gears in the day-to-day running of things, it would be better for all of us (here) if we just came to a screeching halt on "school work" (except for math) for about six months halfway through next school year. So, I was looking for ideas for putting together something substantively different from the seat work way of learning. We really do need to just stop doing seat work and do other things for half a year. I have no doubt whatsoever that we will jump right back in when that season is over. We are naturally seat workers, LOL. We just love a good day of checking off boxes.

 

Am I giving my children the impression that learning is "getting work done" or "checking off boxes?" For the record, I have no problem with getting work done, or requiring it to be done, or making us all just buckle down and do what we don't necessarily have a passion for, but is there something built into this approach that sends a message to the children in it? And, what other ways are we never even exploring or trying, because we are locked down so tightly into this way?

 

I suppose, in the end, I am passionate about something. I am passionate about finding wisdom for mothering and teaching our three daughters, and following God's way for our family.

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I don't know. I sort-of unschooled science because I *wasn't* passionate about it but my daughter was. I found that she learned more when I stepped back out of her way. I let her choose books, activities, experiments, science fair projects etc... with minimal guidance from 5th-8th grade. (Minimal guidance means I did put some boundaries up--I suggested options for the main year's curriculum and she narrowed down the choice to one she wanted. I told her to work for 30 minutes minimum on science per day, but she chose what to do. I asked her to tell me what she was doing at least once a week, and to write, record, or draw something in her science journal at least once a week. Otherwise, she chose what to read or what experiments to do, found materials to substitute for things we didn't have or put things on a "to purchase" list if needed, and basically taught herself from a variety of resources. One year she won a year's subscription to Supercharged Science with her science fair project. In high school she won a copy of Apologia Advanced Biology, which she'll probably opt to use next year.

 

I do think that to be a successful unschooler, you have to be diligent about strewing and have some technology boundaries in place. I think the idea of having passion to help them get interested is helpful if your version of unschooling is more modeling-based. 

 

Bloom where you're planted. If your passion is family and faith (awesome!), then instead of trying to make your school into something completely foreign, major on your passions. Time spent together is so important, and passing on your faith is important. Make sure your kids get a good, well-rounded education in whatever way you prefer and that works for them too, and then make sure they have time to pursue THEIR passions. That's more the way I approached things--what did my kids want to learn? How could I incorporate that, either "formally" or "informally?" Other than that one subject I wouldn't consider anything I did as "unschooling," but I would definitely say I paid a lot of attention to interests and did some interest-led schooling as well as a lot of eclectic things (putting together resources or whole courses because of their interests). 

 

My passions were in the areas of reading aloud, family, faith, helping others (serving a neighbor or visiting an elderly friend and seeing how we could help, etc..., baking treats and taking them to various people, etc...) I tried to open horizons to other interests through reading aloud and service. I may not want to do science experiments, but I can say "Wow, I never knew that!" as I'm reading something history or science related...and so on. My oldest had an interest in history, and I often let him choose research topics that were history-related. One semester in high school I made a whole curriculum around his interest in Japanese History. We also studied sharks in 2nd grade because of his interest (and found a local class that did a dissection!) There are all kinds of options and opportunities if you are watchful--and as a mom who is interested in family, that's something you CAN do.

 

In their spare time, my kids have explored painting, sculpture, music, modifying nerf guns, games that require some knowledge of probability like pokemon and bakugon (hey, I found something those are good for, LOL!) legos, imaginary play, exercise routines (my oldest is into learning kendo moves through you-tube currently--he's in college this year but the interest started in high school)...

 

All that to say that if your concern is wanting your kids to develop and pursue interests, that doesn't mean you have to switch to unschooling. Consider other ways to make those things happen. Have fun and let your school be a unique reflection of YOU and your family :-).

 

Merry, I just want to hug you! Thanks for this, it means a lot to me that you took the time to post it.

 

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Thinking about this a little more....I think unschoolers are passionate about *living*. Not compartmentalizing learning into 9-3 or 5 workbooks. But beyond that, it looks different for every family because every family has different priorities, faiths, dynamics...ya know?

If you like checking boxes, great! Then find ways to apply what you've learned in unschooly ways. Two years ago, we stopped "schooling" for a bit while I built a much-too-big chicken coop. DS helped with the math and had an intro to geometry, he got to practice handwriting with a sharpie on the wood, and so on. Lately we've started doing math at dinner time, on the couch next to the easel/whiteboard. I'll write problems on it (usually from BA) and we just sit and discuss and figure things out and sometimes even follow some rabbit trails. It's absolutely wonderful.

I think that's been the big thing for me: not being a passive observer...for lack of a better phrase. There are a lot of easier ways to get through mandatory education, but for me, I feel like they happen to us, not us making them happen. If that makes sense. I feel like I need to find opportunities - and make them! - otherwise weeks and months pass by and I wonder what we've done with ourselves. Of course it's easier because I live in a zero accountability state, so I don't have a portfolio looming over me or anything.

(And finding out that really deep down I'm confident that this is the best path for us. As long as I have doubts about whether I'm ok with non-traditional, unschooling isn't going to work for me.).

And I'm rambling again...

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I have been listening to a lot of the Brave Writer Periscopes and in a way while my interest is abundantly piqued, it has made me a bit discontent in our schooling experience. We look more like WTM homeschoolers overall than BW lifestylers, though we do incorporate much of the BW lifestyle for LA.

 

In the end, I see that unschooling looks so "breath of fresh air", so lovely. And in the end I know it can work....but for me, I began to think, with unschooling you have a much broader vision of success. Will you be ok with that? Julie Bogart shared about two of her children, how one went into human rights and one learned Clingon and was a successful video gamer. I really am not judging them at all, it worked for them, she is thrilled with the result -- but I asked myself would I be ok with that result? The true answer is no. (I understand children grow up to be adults and make their own choices, I am simply referring to choosing those as "the passions" we follow that are "homeschooling."

 

After listening to that Periscope I listened to one by SWB and yes, that is where I am naturally. So my take away? Just because I am naturally inclined to be more like SWB, I can learn a lot from those like Julie Bogart to balance me out and make our experiences richer.

 

We may not be an unschooling family, because I am too much of a control freak ;) but I get delight led learning and I can jump on the bandwagon of my kids healthy interests and show them that learning is engaging, fun, and a life long process. Yes sometimes we have to do difficult things-- that's life, but learning should not be drudgery. But I have found that is more a result of attitude (mine and their) than method.

 

I guess I am a fan of parent directed/ child invested learning-- but real life learning is amazing and worth it. We do at least two field trips a month and my kids love them. I need to do more to build off of those experiences and go deeper. If we could go travel for 6 months, yes please! Keep a journal, do some math and love the experience!

 

As for passions....I have had passions in life, but then I got married, had kids, homeschool them...besides my passion for God and church and the Gospel, my passion for my family and educating them right now takes up so much of my time and energy there isn't room for more at this time.

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I have been listening to a lot of the Brave Writer Periscopes and in a way while my interest is abundantly piqued, it has made me a bit discontent in our schooling experience. We look more like WTM homeschoolers overall than BW lifestylers, though we do incorporate much of the BW lifestyle for LA.

 

In the end, I see that unschooling looks so "breath of fresh air", so lovely. And in the end I know it can work....but for me, I began to think, with unschooling you have a much broader vision of success. Will you be ok with that? Julie Bogart shared about two of her children, how one went into human rights and one learned Clingon and was a successful video gamer. I really am not judging them at all, it worked for them, she is thrilled with the result -- but I asked myself would I be ok with that result? The true answer is no. (I un derrotad Children's gris up to ve adultos and make their Owner choices, i amo simple referĂƒÂ­ gato choosing those as The pasiones that are "homeschooling."

 

:iagree: :iagree: :lol: :lol:  LOL, not sure what happened here, but I heartily agree! ROFL. I amo simple referi gato, too. (I think it's supposed to be: I understand that children grow up to be adults and make their own choices, I am simply referring to choosing those as the passions that are "homeschooling." Did I translate it?)

 

Seriously, though, I have had the same thoughts about this. While it looks like a "breath of fresh air," I also wonder about the results. Where does all that "we are free" kind of approach to life take a developing person? TBH, some of the "success stories" in the unschooling community do not impress me. Or, at least I can say, I don't think that that end result would be enough for a long-term satisfying life for the girls. It might be possible to find something that works in your twenties (e.g., living over a coffee shop and being a low-paid barista, or traveling from farm to farm, or living at home with parents and being a freelance whatever), but how will that set up a person for a stable, comfortable, independent, and financially responsible adult life as time goes by? So I do have questions about throwing off restraint, and how much, and how often, and to what end. I suppose that, in a way, this is why I prefer the idea of a "gap year" or "alternative learning season" (call it what you will, I don't mind) in the middle school years, when the parent can still have authority over what that entails and how long it lasts, and can still bring the student back to the norm of disciplined, structured studies. IOW, we try this approach for a while, glean what we can from that season, and then move back towards our norm of structured studies.

 

After listening to that Periscope I listened to one by SWB and yes, that is where I am naturally. So my take away? Just because I am naturally inclined to be more like SWB, I can learn a lot from those like Julie Bogart to balance me out and make our experiences richer.

 

You might be my long-lost twin. We both listened to the JB scopes, and we probably both just listened to the same SWB lecture. ;) My take away was the same as yours, too -- that is where we are naturally. And, yet, we can also learn from another perspective.

 

We may not be an unschooling family, because I am too much of a control freak ;) but I get delight led learning and I can jump on the bandwagon of my kids healthy interests and show them that learning is engaging, fun, and a life long process. Yes sometimes we have to do difficult things-- that's life, but learning should not be drudgery. But I have found that is more a result of attitude (mine and their) than method.

 

I guess I am a fan of parent directed/ child invested learning-- but real life learning is amazing and worth it. We do at least two field trips a month and my kids love them. I need to do more to build off of those experiences and go deeper. If we could go travel for 6 months, yes please! Keep a journal, do some math and love the experience!

 

Yes and yes! I will also say that I think my children are fans of parent-directed/child-invested learning. They know that they are learning, they appreciate the effort that we all put into this journey, and they are in no way shut out from enjoying life because I make them do their math lessons. ;) At the same time, real life learning is amazing and worth it. That is why I am... considering, mulling over, gathering ideas for... a season of putting most of the seat work aside, and forcing ourselves to pursue learning in other ways. We really would have to move out of our comfort zone for that!

 

For us, it wouldn't be like, "Oh, goody, let's escape the dreaded and dastardly Seat Work and go climb the Appalachian Trail today." No. For us, it would be like, "Oh, Seat Work, how I truly do miss thee. But Mommy says we have to hike over these rocks, because it develops character." :lol:

 

As for passions....I have had passions in life, but then I got married, had kids, homeschool them...besides my passion for God and church and the Gospel, my passion for my family and educating them right now takes up so much of my time and energy there isn't room for more at this time.

 

True. I could write the same thing, it applies here, too. Yes, we really do put effort into this, don't we? :) Thanks, Nicole (ByGrace3). I enjoyed your post.

 

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Oh, a mystery.

 

You know I always felt guilty that I never did have one passion, anything I'm really good at, instead I flit from this to that, here while back I had a conversation with someone and they were talking about how some people are dabblers and I thought, oh that's me, well that's ok, we'll embrace it, so we just follow our interests. 

 

I say there are a lot of different ways to live life, lots of ways to school successfully, capitalize on your own strengths and as was said bloom where you are planted, don't devalue your own interests, there isn't some right way, just whatever way is right for you guys. I know I've felt guilt because although I first found SWB inspirational I don't fit the mold to do school classically, in the way she describes, furthermore my son doesn't fit it either. It has been hard for me at times to be here because I don't feel we are doing it right or rigorous enough. I've pushed at times I shouldn't, I let this thought of what I should do stop me from doing what was best for my own at times, so it goes both ways, we just can't be all things. Solidly and thoroughly educating your children is an accomplishment, don't forget that, this is hard work, no matter how you do it, we all just spend our energy and time in different ways.

 

I've know for me this is the year I've felt I've come into my own, a combination of things I'm sure but delving into Bravewriter makes me feel like I've finally found my tribe, now she isn't for everyone or some perfect guru, just like SWB isn't either. Julie had a bit she said that I think would be good for anyone, she says if some homeschooling group or guru is just making you feel guilty about what you are doing then you need to move away from them/it. 

 

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I don't know, it sounds like your way of homeschooling is working for you, and it's working for your kids, and this might just be a case of "grass is greener." October is the month for it.

 

Not everyone is an unschooler, and that's really ok. Goodness knows I'm not. I need my routine and my boxes because I have plain too many balls in the air as it is. At least my balls are all planned and uniformly sized and predictable, ya know? I don't have the energy for all that strewing, and honestly it would drive me AND my kids crazy after the first week.

 

That's hard, because I too see all these gorgeous passionate unschooling families and there's that thought, "I want to be like that!" One of my closest homeschooling friends is an unschooler. But doing what they are doing won't make me like that. Because I'm not them. My kids aren't their kids.

 

I AM a fairly passionate person, with the tendency to throw myself into a project for 3-5 years before veering wildly into the next. That's personality, though, not a learned behavior. My husband has 0 hobbies or passions. He's a devoted father and church member, sure. But he's not passionate in the way you are describing. That's ok. It's personality. Only one of us was ever homeschooled and it wasn't me ;).

 

If the BW videos are inspiring you to stretch and grow, fine. Use that. We all have weak spots to develop. But it sounds to me like they are making you despair, and feel bad about yourself, and consider throwing the baby out with the bath water. Don't let them do that!

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I guess I am a fan of parent directed/ child invested learning-- but real life learning is amazing and worth it. We do at least two field trips a month and my kids love them. I need to do more to build off of those experiences and go deeper. If we could go travel for 6 months, yes please! Keep a journal, do some math and love the experience!

 

I've been referring to it as parent-led, child-driven. I bring up the topics and the general order, my daughter brings the level of interest. If she has minimal interest in the topic I bring up, we cover the quick basics and move on. If she is very interested, we may dwell for months. On the spectrum, I'm closer to BW than WTM, but not by a lot. BW attitude plus WTM goals, maybe? I try to keep my requirements on educational minimal so there is plenty of non-school time for my daughter to explore all the things she likes.

 

We are able to travel often. Last year, we spent 4 weeks doing Spanish immersion in Guatemala. I went to a Spanish language-learning school, DD went to a local child care center that only spoke Spanish, and we both lived in a homestay together. We both learned SO MUCH Spanish, not to mention all the new cultural elements. She still swears she learned no Spanish because she was not given direct instruction in Spanish. The learning apparently doesn't count unless there is direct instruction in her own mind. :huh:  We're planning another trip and she is so happy that she gets to go to the Spanish school and take formal classes.

 

I've occasionally come up with full days worth of field trips or experiential learning, only to have her complain at the end of the day that I didn't "do school" with her. For us, it's easiest to maintain the basics and do our exploring in content subjects.

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Oh, a mystery.

 

You know I always felt guilty that I never did have one passion, anything I'm really good at, instead I flit from this to that, here while back I had a conversation with someone and they were talking about how some people are dabblers and I thought, oh that's me, well that's ok, we'll embrace it, so we just follow our interests.

 

I say there are a lot of different ways to live life, lots of ways to school successfully, capitalize on your own strengths and as was said bloom where you are planted, don't devalue your own interests, there isn't some right way, just whatever way is right for you guys. I know I've felt guilt because although I first found SWB inspirational I don't fit the mold to do school classically, in the way she describes, furthermore my son doesn't fit it either. It has been hard for me at times to be here because I don't feel we are doing it right or rigorous enough. I've pushed at times I shouldn't, I let this thought of what I should do stop me from doing what was best for my own at times, so it goes both ways, we just can't be all things. Solidly and thoroughly educating your children is an accomplishment, don't forget that, this is hard work, no matter how you do it, we all just spend our energy and time in different ways.

 

I've know for me this is the year I've felt I've come into my own, a combination of things I'm sure but delving into Bravewriter makes me feel like I've finally found my tribe, now she isn't for everyone or some perfect guru, just like SWB isn't either. Julie had a bit she said that I think would be good for anyone, she says if some homeschooling group or guru is just making you feel guilty about what you are doing then you need to move away from them/it.

I couldn't agree more.

 

Who says living above a coffee shop, working as a barista isn't successful? Does it change if you own the building? The shop? Whaf if you're deliriously happy working for room and board above the shop and a small stipend, just to see and serve the customers every day because you love serving the people? Is that only successful if you're serving as a preacher in a church?

 

Or if you move from farm to farm, blowing with the wind? Is it only success if you stay in one place? Where does personality or happiness play into it? Is the drifter only successful if they are "a consultant" with a "home-base" and helping the farmers out? How about if they just love the land and feel most alive while working directly with it?

 

Who am I to define success for any other person? Even my kids? I educate them so they have options, but overall I want them to be HAPPY and CONTENT, no matter what they choose or how much money they make, whether they choose marriage or single life, kids or not. Those are not my decisions to make.

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I have always found this topic fascinating because my two children are as different as two kids can be.  I unschooled them when they were young, and in some ways I still unschool my older.  But I think that unschooling does not have to be learning through life; it can also be defined as child led.  My older boy has that passion that you referred to upthread -- he is passionate about math.  He also loves violin, physics, literature, and badminton.  His passion and his loves mixed with his schedule-loving personality, means that unschooling for him is working at school work for 6 hours a day. As kids get older, unschooling/child led looks different, and for my boy differentiating it from traditional school is impossible.

 

My younger boy, in contrast, is a generalist. He is passionate about hanging out with his friends, and about reading, but not about anything else.  I guide him much more closely than I ever did with my older. This boy does not make habits or keep to schedules, and hates the feeling of being directionless or being required to figure out what he should do.  I do not think he would actually like to be unschooled, because of these personality traits.  So we share leadership of his schooling -- I plan and encourage and he has the right to say no or change course.  I work hard to help him with internal goals so he can own his studies.  Some days this feels like an uphill battle, but in the end, I believe that owning it will help him achieve his dreams so much better than me forcing him to finish a set amount of work.  

 

Success for these boys is reasonably easy to define.  I agree that success does include a large element of happiness, and I have always worked with a triangle of ideas.  People are happy in their work if 1) they are good at it, 2) they like it, 3) there are job opportunities in the field.  If you only have 2 of the 3, it is harder to be happy.   Try taking one of those 3 out, and imagine how you would feel, and it is not good.  So I work with my  kids to define success for them.  I have steered my older boy away from high-energy physics, because he may be good at it and like it, but CERN is pumping out 100PhDs a year into a job market with no jobs.  There is more than one path that will work for this child, so now he is considering quantum materials, which is a growing field with jobs. I think there is nothing wrong with using our wisdom to help guide kids into paths where success links to happiness, rather than just saying the sky is the limit.  I am currently tutoring a student who wants to be a neurobiologist but has discalculia.  She may like it and there may be jobs, but she is certainly not good at it.  If I were her parent, I would encourage her in other areas because she will never find happiness or success in the one she is focused on. 

 

Just my random musings.  I'm enjoying the other responses.

 

Ruth in NZ

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Ok, if you do podcasts, there is one called "TheLively show" that you must hear. Her most recent episode has Elizabeth Gilbert, of Eat Pray Love fame, and they talk about "the fetishization of passion."

 

Liz Gilbert's new book Big Magic is great too. It's about "living creatively" and she talks a lot about how it doesn't have to be your whole life.

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Oh, a mystery.

 

Hi, Soror. Yes, I posted something personal, and then I chickened out. ;) It was basically about finding one's passion, and the relationship of that to being able to learn out-of-the-box. Do we have to be passionate in order to learn well in alternative ways? Do certain personality types gravitate towards "school equals seat work" because it's safer, more orderly, less risky?

 

You know I always felt guilty that I never did have one passion, anything I'm really good at, instead I flit from this to that, here while back I had a conversation with someone and they were talking about how some people are dabblers and I thought, oh that's me, well that's ok, we'll embrace it, so we just follow our interests. 

 

This is me, too! Dabbler Central. ;) Most of the time, I'm okay with it, but every once in a while I think the reason we dabble is because we try to fit it all in. DO ALL THE THINGS! I want a clean and orderly house, home-cooked meals, a happy husband, healthy and well-adjusted children, and a solid home education in 20 subjects (LOL) for all three girls. I want to support my aging parents, connect with my church and community, and continue to grow as a person. I want to sleep and exercise and be healthy (and increasingly healthier).

 

I say there are a lot of different ways to live life, lots of ways to school successfully, capitalize on your own strengths and as was said bloom where you are planted, don't devalue your own interests, there isn't some right way, just whatever way is right for you guys. I know I've felt guilt because although I first found SWB inspirational I don't fit the mold to do school classically, in the way she describes, furthermore my son doesn't fit it either. It has been hard for me at times to be here because I don't feel we are doing it right or rigorous enough. I've pushed at times I shouldn't, I let this thought of what I should do stop me from doing what was best for my own at times, so it goes both ways, we just can't be all things. Solidly and thoroughly educating your children is an accomplishment, don't forget that, this is hard work, no matter how you do it, we all just spend our energy and time in different ways.

 

True. I do think that we have found our groove with the academics, the traditional school work. We do know how to diligently get it done. We have routines and habits in place, and they get stronger all the time. That is to say, through consistently practicing things like school routines, organization, time management, independent work habits, teacher check-ins, and due dates, the girls have become stronger students and much more efficient and productive. I think that these are good things to have worked on, along with all the skills and content. The girls have all said that this year is the "best year so far." They are happy with what we're doing.

 

What we don't do automatically -- what I think we need to intentionally "practice" -- is a certain kind of alternative learning, the kind you don't do sitting in a school room. ;) We are not good at non-paper-based learning, if that makes sense. We are also not very good at bouncing back and forth between these types of learning (i.e., from seat work to "other things" and back again) on a daily basis. I think that a longer season of intentionally practicing other ways would serve us all well, but not this year. This year is up and running. We are not messing around with that. And my twins aren't really ready for an extended period of diligent unschooling, if that's what we end up doing. But I think that in just over a year -- fifteen months or so? -- everything will be aligned for us to experiment a bit.

 

I plan to set aside a season, halfway through next school year. The reason I don't want to incorporate all of these unschooly things into our present structure is because, well, they don't fit! There is only so much time in a week. If we try to do too many things, then everything feels too diluted. And, in a way, the whole point of setting aside a season would be to shift gears -- to try an entirely different approach to learning, not just an occasional, different activity.

 

I also don't have either the money or the energy for maintaining both a structured school routine and an intentional out-of-the-box learning experience. And I wouldn't want our tendency to prefer structure to sabotage our newborn efforts to get out of our seats and live a little, you know? And, I wouldn't want to prematurely try to squeeze in more "out there" activities now, and have that undermine what is working so well this year.

 

I've known for me this is the year I've felt I've come into my own, a combination of things I'm sure but delving into Bravewriter makes me feel like I've finally found my tribe, now she isn't for everyone or some perfect guru, just like SWB isn't either. Julie had a bit she said that I think would be good for anyone, she says if some homeschooling group or guru is just making you feel guilty about what you are doing then you need to move away from them/it. 

 

I feel that way, too. The praying, researching, planning, and prepping that I did for this year's work has paid off so much. It is all going so well, we are thriving. It still feels like we have plenty of space, plenty of room to breathe, enough free time (for all). And yet we are doing a solid, satisfying, structured work load that has already produced noticeable growth in just these few months (we began in late August). So I feel I've come into my own.

 

It's good (after all) to put this out there, and get some feedback. Thanks for posting.

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I don't know, it sounds like your way of homeschooling is working for you, and it's working for your kids, and this might just be a case of "grass is greener." October is the month for it.

 

Not everyone is an unschooler, and that's really ok. Goodness knows I'm not. I need my routine and my boxes because I have plain too many balls in the air as it is. At least my balls are all planned and uniformly sized and predictable, ya know? I don't have the energy for all that strewing, and honestly it would drive me AND my kids crazy after the first week.

 

That's hard, because I too see all these gorgeous passionate unschooling families and there's that thought, "I want to be like that!" One of my closest homeschooling friends is an unschooler. But doing what they are doing won't make me like that. Because I'm not them. My kids aren't their kids.

 

I AM a fairly passionate person, with the tendency to throw myself into a project for 3-5 years before veering wildly into the next. That's personality, though, not a learned behavior. My husband has 0 hobbies or passions. He's a devoted father and church member, sure. But he's not passionate in the way you are describing. That's ok. It's personality. Only one of us was ever homeschooled and it wasn't me ;).

 

If the BW videos are inspiring you to stretch and grow, fine. Use that. We all have weak spots to develop. But it sounds to me like they are making you despair, and feel bad about yourself, and consider throwing the baby out with the bath water. Don't let them do that!

 

Hi, Coco. I had to LOL about "I need my routine and my boxes." Same here! :)

 

I did start thinking about this during the summer, though, so I don't think it's October or Bravewriter scopes or anything like that. I only just saw the BW scope the other day. No, this mulling and musing started this summer when my 8 year old daughter said, "Mommy, someday, when I grow up, I want to have a whole day for doing crafts. All day, all crafts." Something about that hit a chord, I don't know why. It was so heartfelt, so sweet. It expressed her pure delight in making things. We have since, of course, had a day of all crafts. ;)

 

Then, another time, I was snuggling this same daughter (and I have three!), and she said, "Mmmmm, I'm soaking in the love." She said it like "luve." It was hilarious. It drew me back to mothering.

 

It's hard to explain. It isn't despair (at all), but I appreciate your encouragement to not go there! :)

 

No... it's just thinking about my children in terms of their whole beings, of them as the people they are, not only the students I teach. I am their mother, you know? And sometimes, when I teach so much, I miss mothering them.

 

It's that for us, at some point, there will have to be a season of another way of doing things, another way of learning -- a break from diligent seat work, with intention to pursue other avenues with the same diligence.

 

I suppose I just answered my original (and deleted!) question -- Do we need passion to successfully take a less structured path? I think the answer is no, but we do need diligence, which we have in good measure.

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sahamama- it is funny we are having opposite years, this is the year I decided that we would loosen up here and go more out of the box and some things had to give because I didn't don't have the energy and time to do all this seat work and the out of the box/alternative stuff. As you said there has to be down time. 

 

You know I find it ironic because your post made me think of this thing we did at church, we did this big survey to find out our areas of interests and talents. I can't remember the exact labels now but my big things are organization and compassion(social worker degree). I have 2 halves that constantly fight, I'm a bit type A, yet I like to have freedom to do what I want, I think I've finally figured out when I overschedule and plan I feel hemmed in and although I like the idea of it, I don't like the practice of it.

 

I think you are right that passion or specialization isn't required to do out of the box well. We're not unschoolers here but with all the different stuff we are doing I think it is more the persistence to keep doing it than anything else, we are fairly loose but I have general guidelines for what I want us to hit each day and week so I have to keep us on track, that feels right for us(I wouldn't be able to do it if I wasn't able to keep track of all these threads mentally, although I guess for those who aren't really bothered by order they can just let it all go and let it fall where it may). Coco talked about passions being 3-5 yrs for her, shoot, I'm more like 3-5 months, if I'm doing good. I decided we are just going to consider it like unit studies. So, we have passions for the moment, or the week or the day, does that count? One of my mottos this year has been do all the fun stuff, we are just trying all kinds of stuff(I guess I'm training little dabblers OR maybe I'm just giving them lots of options, who knows). I keep a perpetual mental list and some physical list of cool stuff to study or try(birds, dinosaurs, astronomy, evolution and Shakespeare are on my spring plans- not much history there huh- and that is why it is scheduled!) I guess what I did was to cut our core work down so when there is something we want to do it gets put into the extra slot. I don't see us ending up like the one family Julie talked about that were unschooler's spawning fish, we arent circumnavigating the globe either.  

 

I was thinking as well of what Merry said up thread about how she isn't big into Science so they kind of unschooled it, History is that subject for me. I like it just fine, I just like Science more so I feel pretty comfortable being looser with it because we just hit it a lot naturally; I'm a wannabe naturalist and dh is an engineer and jack of all trades. History I schedule the minimum I want to do and science nearly always ends up being twice as much, I try to even it out with little luck. Science stuff is natural for us, history stuff, well we do some just on our own but not enough for me to consider it good enough.

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I struggle to know to what extent we should follow passions and to what extent we need to buckle down to the basics. My kids seem to crave and thrive on structured physical activities--swimming, gymnastics, tumbling, soccer, basketball... It's not that they have exceptional talent or that I am pushing them into sports, it just seems that these are the things that bring them alive. There are other interests we have followed as well--science, music, foreign language...

 

The Three R's tend to be what gets less attention, it is a constant struggle to keep those going.

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No... it's just thinking about my children in terms of their whole beings, of them as the people they are, not only the students I teach. I am their mother, you know? And sometimes, when I teach so much, I miss mothering them.

 

You know, whenever I read an unschooling thread (and I read and enjoy them all!), I often see this theme running through them. Moms make wonderful educators, but it comes at a cost. . . the cost of mothering time and a well-run household. The other day I was holding our 2yo. He's getting into trouble so much these days, and he's SO cute. And he's probably our last one. I had the sudden realization of how little time I spend with just him, and I suddenly wanted to chuck the schooling and be a "full-time mom." I also get this feeling when I see a room that needs to be overhauled, or a bushel of apples I want to make into sauce with the kids. 

 

It is natural for us to want to raise our children holistically. And I think that's why we tend to be drawn to things like unschooling and morning baskets. I have more thoughts, but I have to run. Maybe I can post back later.

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You know, whenever I read an unschooling thread (and I read and enjoy them all!), I often see this theme running through them. Moms make wonderful educators, but it comes at a cost. . . the cost of mothering time and a well-run household. The other day I was holding our 2yo. He's getting into trouble so much these days, and he's SO cute. And he's probably our last one. I had the sudden realization of how little time I spend with just him, and I suddenly wanted to chuck the schooling and be a "full-time mom." I also get this feeling when I see a room that needs to be overhauled, or a bushel of apples I want to make into sauce with the kids.

 

It is natural for us to want to raise our children holistically. And I think that's why we tend to be drawn to things like unschooling and morning baskets. I have more thoughts, but I have to run. Maybe I can post back later.

As I hold my two-year-old, I have come to the same realization. It's convicting. And it makes me sad. There is only do much of me, and he gets short changed.

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Yes, homeschooling while being a parent and homemaker is really like trying to do two full-time jobs as one person. Even if you can organize your time well enough to fit it all in, it's hard to have the energy and mental focus for everything. And so we cast about for an answer to preserve our peace and sense of balance: unschooling, LCC, Circe, Waldorf, Robinson, Self-propelled, online, etc, etc. Which will allow us to both rear and educate our children as whole people? We each need to find what works for us and our families. I'm convinced that there is not one right answer, except the general advice to simplify.

 

As far as passion, I think that much of the time, the work precedes the passion. There's a book on this. I probably heard about it here on the boards. :)   So I agree with you; I don't think you need pre-existing passions to leave behind the checklists. You need a few interests, a little diligence, and love. It sounds to me like you are well set.

 

I have Bonnie Landry's booklets next to my bedside and I have been feeding on them (again) the last few weeks. Especially the green one, "What Matters Most." Her approach is not unschoolish, but it is simple and interest-led. The series is entitled "Homeschooling, Simplified." I just thought I'd mention them as another option for those looking to simplify, since they are not well-known.

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Yes, homeschooling while being a parent and homemaker is really like trying to do two full-time jobs as one person. Even if you can organize your time well enough to fit it all in, it's hard to have the energy and mental focus for everything. And so we cast about for an answer to preserve our peace and sense of balance: unschooling, LCC, Circe, Waldorf, Robinson, Self-propelled, online, etc, etc. Which will allow us to both rear and educate our children as whole people? We each need to find what works for us and our families. I'm convinced that there is not one right answer, except the general advice to simplify.

 

As far as passion, I think that much of the time, the work precedes the passion. There's a book on this. I probably heard about it here on the boards. :) So I agree with you; I don't think you need pre-existing passions to leave behind the checklists. You need a few interests, a little diligence, and love. It sounds to me like you are well set.

 

I have Bonnie Landry's booklets next to my bedside and I have been feeding on them (again) the last few weeks. Especially the green one, "What Matters Most." Her approach is not unschoolish, but it is simple and interest-led. The series is entitled "Homeschooling, Simplified." I just thought I'd mention them as another option for those looking to simplify, since they are not well-known.

Can you tell me more about these books? I'm intrigued! Thanks!

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I was thinking about interests/passions recently - having the usual internal debate about free time vs structured extra curriculars. And it occurred to me that I don't have any interests outside the ones I developed in a structured way during my own school years - as a result of lessons, club, group, training, classes, etc. Maybe that's sad, but I don't think it's terrible.

 

Also, I think resistance is always an issue - even with activities and pursuits we love.

 

Just thinking "out loud" here.

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Many ideas from this thread resonate with me. I am a by-the-schedule box-checker who looks wistfully at unschooling, while knowing it isn't for us. Last year I decided to do most of our scheduled work on Monday-Thursday and spend Friday focused on music, art, poetry, and extra reading. We still did a few schooly things that didn't get finished during the week, but for the most part the day was spent painting, dancing, snuggling on the couch, and laughing together. It was wonderful. Near the end of the school year ds said "I wish every day could be Friday." It really got me thinking. He didn't say Saturday or Sunday, when we had no school and he was free to do whatever. He liked Fridays better, with their "structured freedom" (I still planned the art projects and announced when it was time to switch to music or poetry, etc.)

 

When planning this year I decided to do something daring (to me) and set aside Thursday for limited seat-work as well. Thursday is science/nature day now. We go on an adventure somewhere outdoors, rain or shine. I bring along a book on a topic related to where we are (this week we talked about migration when we visited a bird sanctuary). Ds' best friend and her mom join us each week and we all really look forward to it. The kids spend at least an hour hiking, exploring, and observing nature. We spend another hour or so reading together, being naturalists and identifying various life, and making journal entries. We all have journals and we sketch and use watercolour pencils to note whatever we find of interest (I do not require the kids to journal about our topic of the day, they are free to draw what they want). In the afternoons ds does computer science, engineering, or other projects he chooses. Thursday has now become a favourite day!

 

I have to run, but I just wanted to say that you may not have to completely unschool every day for months to try to ignite passions or explore new activities. Two days a week of relaxed, less-scheduled, and differently-focused topics works really well for us. We still have three days of our traditional subjects, but we balance it with two fairly organic days. I also find it gives me a bit more time to "be mom" instead of just the teacher.

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