Help me navigate this issue with my DS6...

[kirstenhill]

We have an issue right now with DS6's lack of willingness to participate in Gym/PE class at co-op. Our co-op is "all or nothing" in the sense that all the kids who are 1st-2nd grade age take the same classes -- no options.  So, since our family does co-op, he has to participate in this gym class even though he totally doesn't like it at all. He is doing fine in all his other classes and the combined preK/K class for younger kids that he was in the last three years would definitely be boring for him and cause other problems if he had to not be with his friends who are his age. 

 

I was talking through it with the teacher today to try and figure out how to help DS6 participate even though he "hates" every game they play.  DS6 is possibly ADHD, definitely immature in some ways for his age and has a hard time overcoming the issue of not liking something.  (We don't have any official diagnosis or help right now -- we have an eval in February).  She really didn't have any ideas on how to get him through this and I am not sure I like any of the ideas I have either.

 

I have talked through it with him before class, but when push comes to shove, he doesn't want to play the game he hates, be on a different team from his friend, play by the normal rules, lose, etc. 

 

I have been really hesitant to do any kind of reward system because it is just not how I parent.  We don't really do rewards for anything except maybe m&ms for potty training.  I want to just freely give my kids screen time, treats or special outings for fun, not because they have to earn it in some way.  On the flip side of that, my told older kids (as bad as this sound) generally respond really well to negative consequences -- time outs, losing privileges, extra chores, etc.  DS6 is totally different and has never responded as well to negative consequences.  Maybe he would respond to rewards, but I can't for the life of me figure out how I could "reward" him for good behavior without having to switch everyone to that system.   I can't imagine how DS-almost-4 would possibly understand why DS6 gets extra screen time, a fun sticker or a piece of candy when he doesn't.  But I don't "need" to do anything like that for DS4 because he responds pretty well to the methods of discipline that we already use.

 

I feel like DS6 needs some other kind of support to help him learn to participate in class.  On the other hand, I am not sure that I am consistently able to really be there in class (I am supposed to be prepping for my class that I teach when he is in PE class -- and some of it can't really be done ahead, like writing on my classroom white board, etc).   And even if I am there, I am not sure how to talk him into participating in class. 

 

The teacher really, really doesn't want him to "get out of" participating if at all possible.  There is another kid in class who "conveniently" has a stomach ache/headache/twisted ankle, etc as soon as class begins and tries to get out of playing every time.  The teacher said that if my DS gets to sit on the sidelines or come sit with my in my classroom while I prep, she is afraid this other kid will keep trying even harder to get the same privilege of not participating.  Yet my DS6 is certainly not making it easy or enjoyable for anyone else by his class behavior. 

 

Thoughts?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We have an issue right now with DS6's lack of willingness to participate in Gym/PE class at co-op. Our co-op is "all or nothing" in the sense that all the kids who are 1st-2nd grade age take the same classes -- no options.  So, since our family does co-op, he has to participate in this gym class even though he totally doesn't like it at all. He is doing fine in all his other classes and the combined preK/K class for younger kids that he was in the last three years would definitely be boring for him and cause other problems if he had to not be with his friends who are his age. 

 

I was talking through it with the teacher today to try and figure out how to help DS6 participate even though he "hates" every game they play.  DS6 is possibly ADHD, definitely immature in some ways for his age and has a hard time overcoming the issue of not liking something.  (We don't have any official diagnosis or help right now -- we have an eval in February).  She really didn't have any ideas on how to get him through this and I am not sure I like any of the ideas I have either.

 

I have talked through it with him before class, but when push comes to shove, he doesn't want to play the game he hates, be on a different team from his friend, play by the normal rules, lose, etc. 

 

I have been really hesitant to do any kind of reward system because it is just not how I parent.  We don't really do rewards for anything except maybe m&ms for potty training.  I want to just freely give my kids screen time, treats or special outings for fun, not because they have to earn it in some way.  On the flip side of that, my told older kids (as bad as this sound) generally respond really well to negative consequences -- time outs, losing privileges, extra chores, etc.  DS6 is totally different and has never responded as well to negative consequences.  Maybe he would respond to rewards, but I can't for the life of me figure out how I could "reward" him for good behavior without having to switch everyone to that system.   I can't imagine how DS-almost-4 would possibly understand why DS6 gets extra screen time, a fun sticker or a piece of candy when he doesn't.  But I don't "need" to do anything like that for DS4 because he responds pretty well to the methods of discipline that we already use.

 

I feel like DS6 needs some other kind of support to help him learn to participate in class.  On the other hand, I am not sure that I am consistently able to really be there in class (I am supposed to be prepping for my class that I teach when he is in PE class -- and some of it can't really be done ahead, like writing on my classroom white board, etc).   And even if I am there, I am not sure how to talk him into participating in class. 

 

The teacher really, really doesn't want him to "get out of" participating if at all possible.  There is another kid in class who "conveniently" has a stomach ache/headache/twisted ankle, etc as soon as class begins and tries to get out of playing every time.  The teacher said that if my DS gets to sit on the sidelines or come sit with my in my classroom while I prep, she is afraid this other kid will keep trying even harder to get the same privilege of not participating.  Yet my DS6 is certainly not making it easy or enjoyable for anyone else by his class behavior. 

 

Thoughts?

 

This is probably not what you want to hear, but my little boys' inability to succeed in a school setting is one reason that I homeschooled them.

 

Co-ops, when attendance and participation are compulsory, are exactly like school.

 

[Melissa B]

I wouldn't make a six year old participate in games in which he wasn't interested. I wouldn't let him sit out either. I would have him jog/walk laps during PE if he wasn't interested in the game. I would offer the same option to every child. Sitting isn't an option, but if the game isn't interesting, jogging is always available as a second choice.

[freesia]

It is really hard to run a class of 6 year olds (or any age) when participation is optional. How doesn't he respond to negative consequences? If he lost all screen time for the day, he wouldn't change his behavior?

 

I taught six year olds for a decade--plus 4 of my own--and they tent to like to check expectation and to set the agenda. Honestly, it would be very good for him if he is required to participate as everyone else is.

 

But Tibbie is right--a classroom in co-op is like one in school b/c the necessary management techniques are the same.

 

And, with regard to your 4 yo, if you want to have a reward system you could do the same for him. If he is a good participator at co-op, he gets screen time, too.

[PeterPan]

I'd take him out, because it's not (merely) adhd causing that reaction.  

 

When you get his evals, you'll get it explained.  Until then, the best thing to do is to listen to what he's telling you.  Could be dyspraxia, a vision problem, whatever, but until then keep him out.  Who in the WORLD does that woman think she is to tell you how to parent?!?!  The ONLY response she should have is "I'll go with whatever you think is best."  That's IT.  

[kirstenhill]

I'd take him out, because it's not (merely) adhd causing that reaction.

 

When you get his evals, you'll get it explained. Until then, the best thing to do is to listen to what he's telling you. Could be dyspraxia, a vision problem, whatever, but until then keep him out. Who in the WORLD does that woman think she is to tell you how to parent?!?! The ONLY response she should have is "I'll go with whatever you think is best." That's IT.

The problem is there is no way to pull him out of just that class. I mean, I guess I could bring him to sit with me, and see what happens...but technically thst's against the co-op rules. But it feels like a huge punishment to my other kids (and to DS6, who likes his other classes) to say we're pulling everyone out of co-op because of this one class. Everyone else loves it, and he loves his other classes, just not this one. I doubt they will kick us out if I "break the rules" to let DS not do gym class, but...who knows. They have the rules they have, and I don't know that anyone has purposely broken them in that way that I know of.

[kirstenhill]

It is really hard to run a class of 6 year olds (or any age) when participation is optional. How doesn't he respond to negative consequences? If he lost all screen time for the day, he wouldn't change his behavior?

 

I taught six year olds for a decade--plus 4 of my own--and they tent to like to check expectation and to set the agenda. Honestly, it would be very good for him if he is required to participate as everyone else is.

 

But Tibbie is right--a classroom in co-op is like one in school b/c the necessary management techniques are the same.

 

And, with regard to your 4 yo, if you want to have a reward system you could do the same for him. If he is a good participator at co-op, he gets screen time, too.

In a situation where he is overcome by negative emotions so to speak (in the heat of the moment angry or upset that he has to participate, that he won't be on the same team as a friend, etc), if I can't respond with a negative consequence immediately, it doesn't have much effect. So, me saying he won't get to watch a show when we get home at 3:30 doesn't have much sway with him at 1pm. If I had a negative consequence I could pull right away it might work. But he WANTS to not do it so telling him to sit out doesn't really work as as a consequence in this case.

 

I don't really want to do a reward system with my 4 year old. I guess if it were what would make the most sense for DS6 and the only way to make it work was to do it with both I might consider. I think the older two would "get it" and be okay with it.

[ashamama]

My boy doesn't respond so well to negative consequences either. He has some issue with time sequence where he loses track when he gets emotionally upset and cannot piece together whether the behavior or the time out came first. At a PE co-op we went in circles for an hour trying to get him to say why he in time out, but he kept going in circles. If he can't remember what he was in time out for, then it wasn't affective. We do lots of redirecting and "talking through " behavior. If he needs to calm down I have him do 5 push ups (for heavy work) come back and try again.

 

Part of what you say reminds me of my boy to a point. He has SPD and ADHD and a convergence insufficiency. He has lots of anxiety too. There was a lot to deal with at once..., the need to wait, the need to follow multi-step instructions, the outside things (wind and grass bug him). Certain games he couldn't see the ball well because of his convergence issues (wanting to see how this has improved with therapy.) His body awareness and motor planning are lacking so sometimes it can be hard to get his body to do just what he wants it to do, and he gets frustrated. That and the ammount of kids shorts his focus. (He plays t-ball great one on one or two on one with my dad as coach, add 2 more kids and suddenly he can't function.) One thing that helped him was having a "buddy." He finds one kid he can "latch on" to to be in the group with. It makes things much easier for him. He learned this strategy at OT and uses it in new classes, sports, and group settings. Perhaps there is a kid there who can be in the group with him? Get the teacher in on it? Also, stemming off the "buddy" idea, my guy responds more to peer-suggestion than adult correction. When he was in gymnastics class if he wandered away, the teacher would ask him to come back and he didn't care. If she gave him a partner and asked the other kid to bring them to whatever spot, he would go gladly. Still today, working with a partner helps him stay focused. And from the days when I was teaching extracurricular stuff, if there was a kid who didn't want to participate or had trouble staying on task, i'd make that kid my "best friend" any time I needed a helper or someone to demonstrate, I used that kid. After a couple weeks, they'd be really excited about class and wanted to participate more. You may want to come up with some non-verbal signals and let the coach know what they are. My guys knows a two finger tap to the shoulder means get on task. It's not spoken so he doesn't have to feel embarrassed in front of other kids that he needed a reminder how to pull back.

 

As for the rewards...perhaps he can earn the reward for everyone? For instance, one of ours recently was if he did a certain thing, we would all get to play a certain game (that he had already picked out usually Sorry or Trouble) Another one was if he wrote well all week, we would do popcorn and a movie night on the weekend. His goal this week was to finish Stuart Little in one week, so we are all going to get ice cream tomorrow. This way everyone gets to enjoy the reward and he feels special for earning our fun thing. we work the benefit into our plan. So our routine is usually to get Frostys after co-op so I can remind him that having a 100% attitude means we get a Frosty (Wendy's is in the next plaza and we got one of those free Frosty jr key chains lol). So he knows the routine is that we do something challenging then something fun right after.

 

Nutrition plays a huge part for us too. We have to supplement with Fish Oil (omega 3/DHA). When we do, he can function much better on these comolicated group tasks.

[ashamama]

In a situation where he is overcome by negative emotions so to speak (in the heat of the moment angry or upset that he has to participate, that he won't be on the same team as a friend, etc), if I can't respond with a negative consequence immediately, it doesn't have much effect. So, me saying he won't get to watch a show when we get home at 3:30 doesn't have much sway with him at 1pm. If I had a negative consequence I could pull right away it might work. But he WANTS to not do it so telling him to sit out doesn't really work as as a consequence in this case.

 

I don't really want to do a reward system with my 4 year old. I guess if it were what would make the most sense for DS6 and the only way to make it work was to do it with both I might consider. I think the older two would "get it" and be okay with it.

if you are looking for an immediate negative consequence, you could give him something like a clothspin (or a couple). So if you gave him three say, he has to check in his clothspins in after class. So if he loses one he won't have the clothspins to check in and he doesn't get the whatever it was he wanted. But he has to keep playing the game, the consequence is losing the pin. The teacher would have to know that he might need to lose a clothspins if he didn't participate. That is the only way we can stretch a negative consequence to a later time is if there is a visual reminder.

 

ETA: I agree that you shouldn't have to lose the co-op for everyone because he dislikes one class. There are things we like to do and things we have to do. We have that talk frequently. Often I use the example, "I don't like cooking, so I guess I won't make dinner." "But Mommy, you have to make dinner." "No I don't feel like it, you do it." "I cant do it!" "You cant? Oh, well I guess we don't have to eat it. I'm not that hungry anyway." "But that's not fair, I'm hungry." "Oh, it isn't fair that we all have to miss something just because one person dislikes something? That's right, we are a team and we have to think about all of us." Or we use laundry or cleaning as the example and we make sure he knows that it is just a scenario that there is always dinner and clean clothes because adults know we have to do things even if they aren't our favorite. In the same token. There are tasks that we

might not like to do, and we may choose not to do them. I make sure we know which ones those are and he has the freedom to say no to certain things so he doesn't feel like everything is forced.

[Plink]

I'd call the co-op director and tell her that you are waiting for testing, but your son is obviously dealing with some special needs.  Ask for an exception to the rule, and get permission to have him sit with you rather than participate in the gym class. 

[Heathermomster]

Your DS is getting evaluated in the spring. You obviously suspect something or would not be going to the trouble and expense of the evaluation. How does the co-op handle kiddos with special needs? Perhaps the co-op needs to start figuring out how to deal with your boy. If they insist that he participate, the least they can do is scaffold him so that he can.

[KSinNS]

Not sure if this relates to you, but my kid could never cope in gum class because of the whistle. Ear plugs helped some. He still hated it, but he could cope. 

[Innisfree]

My older dd was able to learn and behave based on negative consequences, too. Like your six-year-old, my younger dd was not able to do so.

 

It is indeed a pain.

 

But-- my younger dd was. not. able. to learn with negative consequences. They sent her straight into emotional overdrive.

 

Life got better when we learned to adjust our parenting to her needs and abilities.

 

We switched our approach because we had to, but we ended up preferring rewards to punishments. I understand being reluctant to hand out an endless succession of m&ms, or get sucked into endless negotiation, but as it turned out for us, learning to negotiate was a really positive thing. It helped dd develop flexibility and problem-solving skills which she needed very badly.

 

You are right that using positive reinforcement for one kid and negative for others is not a winning proposition. For us, again, rewards turned out to be good for everyone. Life is just hard enough for kids with extra challenges, and for their siblings and parents too. Rewards help keep the atmosphere positive.

 

My only caveat is that rewards work best for us when they are small and incremental: I wouldn't set up a big reward for getting through the whole PE class, for example, but a small one for each activity ds takes part in. Reward small successes, don't make it an all-or-nothing deal, or in our case we'd be setting dd up for disappointment and a cascade of negative reactions. YMMV.

 

And, like Tibbie said, co-ops wouldn't have worked for us, certainly not if a teacher couldn't be flexible (and I can sympathize with the stresses teachers face). But thankfully homeschooling does allow flexibility.

 

Good luck, and hugs. It's hard adjusting when one child has different needs from what you are accustomed to and expect.

[fdrinca]

As a teacher in a casual co-op, I understand the all-or-nothing problem. There is a cascade effect if class is optional - especially if it is optional on an ad hoc basis. It makes planning very difficult! And it's potentially dangerous to have unsupervised kids running around.

 

I'd emphasize the testing, suspicion of underlying issues - possibly, as a PP mentioned, types which make a PE class unpleasant and even dangerous for your kiddo - and a reassurance that DS will be under your care during that period. 

[kirstenhill]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas so far. I'm going to have to give it some more thought, I think. The co-op is fairly small (used to be bigger, but lots of families moved on for various reasons while only gaining a few new ones), and is run by a board w/o one person "in charge" as the director, so to get official permission to "break the rules" and have DS not participate, I would have to explain the situation to the whole board. Without going into a lot of details, I'll just say our group is not very special needs friendly, though if we get an actual diagnosis some might treat our situation a bit differently. The year will be half over before we get that information though. Despite how much we love everything else about the co-op and it is great for the other kids, I know we might have to think about something different next year. It is hard that co-op is a good fit and really helpful for my other kids, and DS6 likes everything else about it. I think we might need to find a group that allows choosing classes though to avoid this kind of thing in the future. If DS6 could do something else entirely during that time it might work, but I don't really have any place else for him to go on co-op days.

[kirstenhill]

 

You are right that using positive reinforcement for one kid and negative for others is not a winning proposition. For us, again, rewards turned out to be good for everyone. Life is just hard enough for kids with extra challenges, and for their siblings and parents too. Rewards help keep the atmosphere positive.

 

My only caveat is that rewards work best for us when they are small and incremental: I wouldn't set up a big reward for getting through the whole PE class, for example, but a small one for each activity ds takes part in. Reward small successes, don't make it an all-or-nothing deal, or in our case we'd be setting dd up for disappointment and a cascade of negative reactions. YMMV

 

i think a thing that is hard for me too is how to even go about rewarding one kid and not the others if only one kid earned a reward, or worse yet, rewarding three but not the 4th that didn't earn it. I mean, if three earned going out for ice cream does the 4th have to stay home? So much for family time in that case. If it is screen time, the non screen time earner would pretty much be getting a bedroom time out as well since it is the only place you would t be able to see the TV or a sibling on the computer. We already do a lot of really fun family stuff with no rewards attached, and it makes me sad to think about getting to only do those things if our kids behave well enough to earn it.

 

The "negative" currency that works super well for my older two is losing playing with neighbor friends. But DS6 has no neighbor friends his age so no currency there.

[LaughingCat]

FWIW, neither of my kids has done well with negative -- and the more the 'currency' involved the more the meltdown (or stubborness for younger) not the more likely to improve behavior.  OTOH, neither has done well with the fun activity 'reward' either -- that is too big and usually involves holding it together to long/perfectly OR doing well over enough time that it seems too far off.   So no worry about whether both will get to go for ice cream because that type of big reward doesn't work here.  They do much better with lots of tiny little rewards -- sticker type is how I think of them.  So little that it barely seems like a reward (to me).    Of course that also means they have to be rewarding much smaller behavior changes as well (as Innisfree says, small and incremental).     The small little rewards are far harder for me though (due to distractation/memory/etc)

[Innisfree]

Yes, exactly! Ice cream trip sorts of things would be impossible for us, for all the reasons you list. Laughing Cat is talking about the sort of thing we have done, small stickers leading to a bigger reward later. For us at the moment, it's two chocolate chips after a row of math problems. If a row is a big challenge, we go down to a chip after two problems, or whatever works.

 

It's really important with this sort of system that the kid experience some success as soon as possible. But it doesn't need to be a huge payoff, and in fact works better if it's a small payoff that leaves them wanting more.

 

For your situation, could the teacher quickly and fairly discretely give ds a sticker on a little chart for each activity he takes part in? Maybe also giving him a private signal that he's earned it and a smile? Then, at the next convenient moment, he gets to show you the chart, get affirmation of how well he did (you took part in three games! Great! I'm so proud of you!) and confirm the reward that's coming (that's three spoonfuls of ice cream when we get home!). If we use ice cream, we're talking teaspoons, by the way. No negative remarks (you only took part in three games!), by the way.

 

For the other kids, you can choose how to approach things. If, as you say, the older kids will understand, great. Explain: "Look, we all love co-op. But ds is having a really hard time with this class. We're trying to find out why, but in the mean time, we need to help him get through it, so we're supporting his efforts."

 

For the little one, if there's something which is hard for him, consider a similar system. Or just let him and everyone share a congratulatory bowl of ice cream when ds gets through the whole class: a "we celebrate each other's successes" model.

[Innisfree]

But regarding the congratulatory ice cream: that would be a surprise, not something to anticipate and possibly fail to achieve.

[PeterPan]

I wouldn't explain a thing. Merely ask the if they'd prefer you pull him from the whole program or just that class. You don't need to defend yourself or get a formal diagnosis. They're protecting THEIR interest (in keeping enrollment) not yours.

[kiwik]

If two kids are that keen to avoid taking part i would wonder apart the class and the teacher.

[kirstenhill]

I wouldn't explain a thing. Merely ask the if they'd prefer you pull him from the whole program or just that class. You don't need to defend yourself or get a formal diagnosis. They're protecting THEIR interest (in keeping enrollment) not yours.

 

The thing is, these people aren't just some random moms I just met.  This is our sixth year in the co-op, and I would consider many of them friends. They may not see eye to eye with me (or the moms on this board) about how to best handle DS6's issues, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't want to burn my bridges with them.  I am really not prepared to offer up some kind of ultimatum about leaving if i don't get "my way" about DS6 not participating.  My other three kids all love co-op, and it would be heartbreaking to them to leave at this point.  Next year is a different story and if it looks like we just can't work anything out, we can do something different next year, as we would have plenty of time to discuss and find a different co-op situation that is a better fit. 

 

If the situation became truly dire, I could pull out just DS6 and hire a sitter for him on co-op days.  But that would be a last resort (as I said, he like his other classes and it would hurt him to be left out), and I would like to think that all being adults, we can be reasonable and figure something out.  But if I were in the shoes of the mom's on board, looking at a long-standing policy that says, "all students must participate in all classes," I would have a hard time granting an exception to the policy if the mom doing the asking wasn't prepared to explain herself and give a good reason.   I want to work to find a solution that ideally allows DS6 to grow in his willingness to participate, or secondarily would give him permission to opt out.  Pulling him out is a distant third choice option.

 

If two kids are that keen to avoid taking part i would wonder apart the class and the teacher.

 

The mom teaching gym is new to teaching that class, and I do want to give her some grace as she finds her groove.  On the other hand, I think it is a bit of a coincidence.  My DS6 is really a pretty active kid and would dance, run, bike, kick a ball, etc all day long if doesn't involve losing a game and/or being told he has to follow someone else's specific rules.  He wants to run around and pretend to be a shark eating the fish while he is supposed to be playing freeze tag (giving the excuse that he can't be frozen "because sharks are more powerful than people who are 'it' in tag"), or wants to make goals in soccer on the side of the gym instead of the goal...he is marching to the beat of his own drummer.  LOL! The other child who doesn't want to participate seems to be a very sedentary child who just doesn't like to run around, etc.  I am making a bit of an assumption here, but when I observed class and this child was participating, this child seemed to be moving just the minimum amount, if that makes any sense.

[Junie]

We have an issue right now with DS6's lack of willingness to participate in Gym/PE class at co-op. Our co-op is "all or nothing" in the sense that all the kids who are 1st-2nd grade age take the same classes -- no options.  So, since our family does co-op, he has to participate in this gym class even though he totally doesn't like it at all. He is doing fine in all his other classes and the combined preK/K class for younger kids that he was in the last three years would definitely be boring for him and cause other problems if he had to not be with his friends who are his age. 

 

I was talking through it with the teacher today to try and figure out how to help DS6 participate even though he "hates" every game they play.  DS6 is possibly ADHD, definitely immature in some ways for his age and has a hard time overcoming the issue of not liking something.  (We don't have any official diagnosis or help right now -- we have an eval in February).  She really didn't have any ideas on how to get him through this and I am not sure I like any of the ideas I have either.

 

I have talked through it with him before class, but when push comes to shove, he doesn't want to play the game he hates, be on a different team from his friend, play by the normal rules, lose, etc. 

 

I have been really hesitant to do any kind of reward system because it is just not how I parent.  We don't really do rewards for anything except maybe m&ms for potty training.  I want to just freely give my kids screen time, treats or special outings for fun, not because they have to earn it in some way.  On the flip side of that, my told older kids (as bad as this sound) generally respond really well to negative consequences -- time outs, losing privileges, extra chores, etc.  DS6 is totally different and has never responded as well to negative consequences.  Maybe he would respond to rewards, but I can't for the life of me figure out how I could "reward" him for good behavior without having to switch everyone to that system.   I can't imagine how DS-almost-4 would possibly understand why DS6 gets extra screen time, a fun sticker or a piece of candy when he doesn't.  But I don't "need" to do anything like that for DS4 because he responds pretty well to the methods of discipline that we already use.

 

I feel like DS6 needs some other kind of support to help him learn to participate in class.  On the other hand, I am not sure that I am consistently able to really be there in class (I am supposed to be prepping for my class that I teach when he is in PE class -- and some of it can't really be done ahead, like writing on my classroom white board, etc).   And even if I am there, I am not sure how to talk him into participating in class. 

 

The teacher really, really doesn't want him to "get out of" participating if at all possible.  There is another kid in class who "conveniently" has a stomach ache/headache/twisted ankle, etc as soon as class begins and tries to get out of playing every time.  The teacher said that if my DS gets to sit on the sidelines or come sit with my in my classroom while I prep, she is afraid this other kid will keep trying even harder to get the same privilege of not participating.  Yet my DS6 is certainly not making it easy or enjoyable for anyone else by his class behavior. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

The thing is, these people aren't just some random moms I just met.  This is our sixth year in the co-op, and I would consider many of them friends. They may not see eye to eye with me (or the moms on this board) about how to best handle DS6's issues, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't want to burn my bridges with them.  I am really not prepared to offer up some kind of ultimatum about leaving if i don't get "my way" about DS6 not participating.  My other three kids all love co-op, and it would be heartbreaking to them to leave at this point.  Next year is a different story and if it looks like we just can't work anything out, we can do something different next year, as we would have plenty of time to discuss and find a different co-op situation that is a better fit. 

 

If the situation became truly dire, I could pull out just DS6 and hire a sitter for him on co-op days.  But that would be a last resort (as I said, he like his other classes and it would hurt him to be left out), and I would like to think that all being adults, we can be reasonable and figure something out.  But if I were in the shoes of the mom's on board, looking at a long-standing policy that says, "all students must participate in all classes," I would have a hard time granting an exception to the policy if the mom doing the asking wasn't prepared to explain herself and give a good reason.   I want to work to find a solution that ideally allows DS6 to grow in his willingness to participate, or secondarily would give him permission to opt out.  Pulling him out is a distant third choice option.

 

 

The mom teaching gym is new to teaching that class, and I do want to give her some grace as she finds her groove.  On the other hand, I think it is a bit of a coincidence.  My DS6 is really a pretty active kid and would dance, run, bike, kick a ball, etc all day long if doesn't involve losing a game and/or being told he has to follow someone else's specific rules.  He wants to run around and pretend to be a shark eating the fish while he is supposed to be playing freeze tag (giving the excuse that he can't be frozen "because sharks are more powerful than people who are 'it' in tag"), or wants to make goals in soccer on the side of the gym instead of the goal...he is marching to the beat of his own drummer.  LOL! The other child who doesn't want to participate seems to be a very sedentary child who just doesn't like to run around, etc.  I am making a bit of an assumption here, but when I observed class and this child was participating, this child seemed to be moving just the minimum amount, if that makes any sense.

 

As to the bolded statements:  It sounds like your first statement is not quite correct -- that he is not willing to participate.  According to the second quote, it sounds like he is not willing to follow the rules, which, imo, is not the same thing.

 

I'm sorry that he's not having fun in the class, but I think that he might once he learns to play the game the way it is meant to be played.  It sounds like he likes to play lots of active games like sharks and minnows and freeze tag.  Maybe you could talk to the teacher about playing your ds's favorite games sometimes, or letting the students take turns choosing.

[kirstenhill]

As to the bolded statements:  It sounds like your first statement is not quite correct -- that he is not willing to participate.  According to the second quote, it sounds like he is not willing to follow the rules, which, imo, is not the same thing.

 

I'm sorry that he's not having fun in the class, but I think that he might once he learns to play the game the way it is meant to be played.  It sounds like he likes to play lots of active games like sharks and minnows and freeze tag.  Maybe you could talk to the teacher about playing your ds's favorite games sometimes, or letting the students take turns choosing.

 

I guess I see it as a subtle difference.  You are right that he is willing to be active, which is a form of participating.  BUT, he doesn't really have a "favorite game" so to speak that involves other people (unless he gets to make up the rules and thereby somehow insure himself of winning!).   He would also like to play a  standard game by "his own rules", but you can see the problem that arises when the teacher tells him that it is unfair to the other players if DS6 is playing in a way that is disruptive to the other players (i.e, not allowing himself to be tagged).   Or he says he would like to play his own game by himself while the other kids play something else...fine at home but not in PE class.

 

Besides attempting to play games by his own rules, his other common response (both in a class or with his siblings) is to ask if there are rules to follow and if it is a winning and losing game.  If they say there are specific rules and/or it involves winning and losing, at that point he'll say he "hates that kind of game" and won't play.  He also won't play "pretend play" games that involve winning and losing (like when his brother and the neighborhood boys all play aliens vs. space cops or something like that, and it is a nerf gun battle to see who is going to win...since he might end up on the losing side, he just won't play).

 

I know he needs to grow out of this at some point in his life, and we have worked on it in small ways at home...but we haven't made a lot of progress yet. 

 

ETA:  I did know that gym class might be a problem for DS6 ahead of time, and probably should have given more thought to it.  But when we had to "re up" on our commitment to co-op way back last spring, I did feel like there was a chance we would mature out of it.  I wasn't at the point last april/may of deciding we were going to pursue evals.  (Hence, why I didn't even make the appointment until August and we are not on the calendar for it until Feb).  By this fall I suspected it might be a problem, but at that point I thought I needed to at least see what happened once he was in the class before assuming it would definitely be an issue.

[Junie]

I guess I see it as a subtle difference.  You are right that he is willing to be active, which is a form of participating.  BUT, he doesn't really have a "favorite game" so to speak that involves other people (unless he gets to make up the rules and thereby somehow insure himself of winning!).   He would also like to play a  standard game by "his own rules", but you can see the problem that arises when the teacher tells him that it is unfair to the other players if DS6 is playing in a way that is disruptive to the other players (i.e, not allowing himself to be tagged).   Or he says he would like to play his own game by himself while the other kids play something else...fine at home but not in PE class.

 

Besides attempting to play games by his own rules, his other common response (both in a class or with his siblings) is to ask if there are rules to follow and if it is a winning and losing game.  If they say there are specific rules and/or it involves winning and losing, at that point he'll say he "hates that kind of game" and won't play.  He also won't play "pretend play" games that involve winning and losing (like when his brother and the neighborhood boys all play aliens vs. space cops or something like that, and it is a nerf gun battle to see who is going to win...since he might end up on the losing side, he just won't play).

 

I know he needs to grow out of this at some point in his life, and we have worked on it in small ways at home...but we haven't made a lot of progress yet. 

 

ETA:  I did know that gym class might be a problem for DS6 ahead of time, and probably should have given more thought to it.  But when we had to "re up" on our commitment to co-op way back last spring, I did feel like there was a chance we would mature out of it.  I wasn't at the point last april/may of deciding we were going to pursue evals.  (Hence, why I didn't even make the appointment until August and we are not on the calendar for it until Feb).  By this fall I suspected it might be a problem, but at that point I thought I needed to at least see what happened once he was in the class before assuming it would definitely be an issue.

 

I see.  So, if it's a win/lose game he won't participate.  I wish I knew how to help you with that one.  It's too bad that the co-op is all or nothing.

 

My dd7 wouldn't participate in the games at Awana.  I found out later that she had severe vision issues and couldn't see well enough to participate.  (She couldn't see the ball or whatever.)  Her problem was fixed with a couple of eye doctor appointments and some glasses.  Your son's issues are entirely different, but just as valid.  I just don't have an answer. :(

[MomatHWTK]

I wouldn't push him to do anything until you've had the evaluation.  There may be an underlying psychological reason why he objects and if so you may need help to navigate through it.  (BTDT)  

[Innisfree]

Are you comfortable talking with the teacher and explaining that you're pursuing evaluations? Is she open to trying some other activities which aren't focused on winning and losing? Since physical activity isn't the problem, perhaps she could include fewer win/lose games and more activities which would let kids exercise in other ways if she understands that there are real reasons your ds is having trouble.

 

And, you know, these kids are six, right? I'm not sure perfect compliance is to be expected at that age, special needs or not. I think perhaps the fact that this teacher is new has significance here. She may need to learn to expect a few outliers in a class. I'm trying to remember when my kids were that age... Seems like there were often a few kids with their own agendas/ ideas/ needs.

[kirstenhill]

Are you comfortable talking with the teacher and explaining that you're pursuing evaluations? Is she open to trying some other activities which aren't focused on winning and losing? Since physical activity isn't the problem, perhaps she could include fewer win/lose games and more activities which would let kids exercise in other ways if she understands that there are real reasons your ds is having trouble.

 

And, you know, these kids are six, right? I'm not sure perfect compliance is to be expected at that age, special needs or not. I think perhaps the fact that this teacher is new has significance here. She may need to learn to expect a few outliers in a class. I'm trying to remember when my kids were that age... Seems like there were often a few kids with their own agendas/ ideas/ needs.

It's a class of first-second graders, so they are going to be in the 6-8 range this year depending on birthday. I have these kids in the class I teach, and one or two are on the more mature end of that spectrum (if not 8 yet, turning soon), while a couple are barely six.

 

That's a great idea to suggest the teacher look for activities that aren't win/lose. I'm sure it is hard to think outside the box beyond the "typical" gym games. I did mention to the teacher that we have concerns and are pursuing an evaluation. She seemed really surprised, and it didn't seem to change her thoughts about things much as we were talking. Among people I know IRL (not just at co-op...kind of just the general culture among homeschoolers I know), they are generally not as positive toward seeking evaluations and interventions in situations like DS's. The unsolicited advice that people want to give is that either it's just a discipline issue, we should be changing his diet or "he'll grow out of it." Those attitudes won't stop me from getting an eval and doing what i need to do for DS, but I don't expect that telling anyone I know IRL that "we're getting an eval" is going to change much of how his situation is perceived.

[prairiewindmomma]

I see a subtle difference in the examples you give. Pretending to be a shark is open free play. Gym is directed work requiring the ability to hear, process, and follow instructions by coordinating movement.

 

My kid can't handle gym class. To place him in one is unfair because the expectations are way above his abilities. It is inconvenient to have a kid with SN. Really, it is. I would hire a sitter or drop the co-op.