A Natural/Reluctant writer, need advice

[ForeverFamily]

I am at a loss as to what to do with my almost 10yo Dd with regards to writing. I am hoping someone on here may have some advice.

 

She is a natural writer and a reluctant writer. She loves writing stories. By choice she will sit down for an hour or two at a time and type up or write stories. But writing for school assignments is a whole different ball game. She will cry and become anxious at a simple request of please write one or two sentences about the story you just read, or two things you read about in science, etc. She says she doesn't know what to write. However, I know she is perfectly capable of doing this as she has before, and on rare occasion has done this by choice. But it is a battle every time I ask her to write about something. I am at a loss as what to do. I feel completely inadequate when it comes to teaching writing, so I feel like I need the hand holding of a curriculum. My plan was to use Classical Writing with her this year, but before I invest in that should I be considering something like IEW? I own the Writers Jungle and have read through part of it but I don't know that I could be dedicated enough to make it work. I have tried CAP W&R but it was a fail, it asked her to write an expanded form of a story and she broke down. She loves creative writing, but not on demand. She has done WWE 1&2, but they were also a battle to get through. I am trying to find the balance between teaching her writing while not pushing so hard as to crush her desire to write. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Thank you! :-)

[Susan in TX]

Don't teach her writing. Just do grammar. I recommend Rod and Staff. Rod and Staff does have some writing assignments. You could have her do some of those, but I just wouldn't push it at this point. As long as she is learning grammar, composition can wait until middle school...for that matter so can grammar...but I think 4th grade is a good time to start.

 

Susan in TX

[mamaraby]

For a natural writer who is also reluctant, then I'd suggest BraveWriter. I think that sort of approach would help free her up and overcome her reluctance. For a non-natural, reluctant writer, BW ime is likely the worst possible program out there. In that case, more structure and systematic instruction seems to work well. Again, ime. YMMV.

[shinyhappypeople]

Something like Write On might work.  It has a nice, gentle progression for learning academic writing, with a ton of creative assignments in between.  

 

In the meantime, have her narrate her answers to you and you scribe for her.  

 

I really do not suggest making this a hill to die on.  As I'm sure you and almost everyone else already knows  intuitively, adding pressure doesn't ease anxiety.  I mention it because it took me a while to have my "duh" moment regarding that concept.

[Farrar]

I think BW can work for kids for whom writing doesn't come naturally too (or kids like mine who are okay with and about writing...) but the profile of kid that it's really made for is definitely the kid who can write but is unsure of herself.

[Ellie]

I am at a loss as to what to do with my almost 10yo Dd with regards to writing. I am hoping someone on here may have some advice.

 

She is a natural writer and a reluctant writer. She loves writing stories. By choice she will sit down for an hour or two at a time and type up or write stories. But writing for school assignments is a whole different ball game. She will cry and become anxious at a simple request of please write one or two sentences about the story you just read, or two things you read about in science, etc. She says she doesn't know what to write. However, I know she is perfectly capable of doing this as she has before, and on rare occasion has done this by choice. But it is a battle every time I ask her to write about something. I am at a loss as what to do. I feel completely inadequate when it comes to teaching writing, so I feel like I need the hand holding of a curriculum. My plan was to use Classical Writing with her this year, but before I invest in that should I be considering something like IEW? I own the Writers Jungle and have read through part of it but I don't know that I could be dedicated enough to make it work. I have tried CAP W&R but it was a fail, it asked her to write an expanded form of a story and she broke down. She loves creative writing, but not on demand. She has done WWE 1&2, but they were also a battle to get through. I am trying to find the balance between teaching her writing while not pushing so hard as to crush her desire to write. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions? Thank you! :-)

 

I wouldn't require her to do it, because (1) she is already capable of writing, and (2) it just isn't worth the pain.

 

Have her do Rod and Staff's English and call it good. Which it will be.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yep. My younger dd is very similar. We're doing BW Partnership Writing and it's going very well, so much better than anything else I've tried with her.

 

And oddly, the Spectrum Language Arts grade 4 workbook is a hit, and she's actually doing daily writing in it.  This is such an odd thing to be working with this child. I think I bought it on a whim one day because I knew I wanted to hit grammar plus mechanics this year and I was feeling unsure about doing MCT Town level, I'm thinking that will go better in 5th grade. So I grabbed this workbook with the idea that it would be a serviceable grammar review. But each lesson has a little writing assignment - write a few sentences, write a paragraph, given a specific topic, and using a specific grammatical construction.  My dd does it without even blinking!  It makes me realize that it isn't the writing that is the trouble, or the thinking of something to say: her problem is putting those two things together in a very open-ended context, as opposed to writing for a very specific, meaningful purpose. She writes just fine when she has something to say.  

 

So, if I want her to write about history or write about a book, I scribe for her while she speaks, and then use her own created sentences for copywork or dictation. Otherwise, it's all short, purposeful assignments - write in your nature journal about something we observe outdoors. Or write a caption to go with this picture for your Personal Timeline (BW) project.  She loves that stuff.

[mamaraby]

I think BW can work for kids for whom writing doesn't come naturally too (or kids like mine who are okay with and about writing...) but the profile of kid that it's really made for is definitely the kid who can write but is unsure of herself.

I'm dubious on the first part ;) but really wish the second part were more up front. BW is sold as if it's a "solution for all writers," when the reality is much what you've said.

 

Regardless, I think that stepping back and *not* teaching writing for any kind of writer can be a very good idea. At least for a time. Then you can come back later and try something new with some distance from the thing that was causing so much distress.

 

So, I'll ammend my recommendation to "take time off, then consider something like BW." Or what about taking October off and then seeing if she's intersted in the NaNoWriMo YWP? Find other ways of creating output for other subjects. It will be ok if she doesn't write a summary for a book read or science learned for awhile. If you absolutely need that output then what about picture journaling or lapbooking? Or? Be creative. It's not forever. It's just for now.

[Farrar]

I'm dubious on the first part ;) but really wish the second part were more up front. BW is sold as if it's a "solution for all writers," when the reality is much what you've said.

 

Regardless, I think that stepping back and *not* teaching writing for any kind of writer can be a very good idea. At least for a time. Then you can come back later and try something new with some distance from the thing that was causing so much distress.

 

So, I'll ammend my recommendation to "take time off, then consider something like BW." Or what about taking October off and then seeing if she's intersted in the NaNoWriMo YWP? Find other ways of creating output for other subjects. It will be ok if she doesn't write a summary for a book read or science learned for awhile. If you absolutely need that output then what about picture journaling or lapbooking? Or? Be creative. It's not forever. It's just for now.

 

There are definitely families who have really struggling writers who feel it has worked for them posting on the BW group. I think it can potentially work for many writers. The one profile of kid I think most of BW is probably wrong for is a kid who needs super broken down parts to whole instruction with a ton of scaffolding. Even those kids I think could benefit from some BW elements, like having a poetry tea now and then. But the whole approach would probably be wrong for them in gaining fluency and competence as a writer.

 

I second your advice to take a little time off. One of the BW ideas for getting started is to do a ten minute freewrite every day, but all of them go in a folder and are not shared with the parent (unless the child wants to). Then, at the end of the month, she picks one to show and potentially revise into a short piece of presentable writing - even if it's just a short description of something or a little personal anecdote. I'm thinking the "write but mom can't look" element might be a good starter for the OP.

[ForeverFamily]

Thank you all so much for your help. It sounds like bravewriter is probably the best option. I have to be realistic with what I will actually get done, I have been so scatter brained at the moment with a very busy toddler and infant. I have come to accept that I do best with open and go curricula or at least curricula that explain step by step what I need to do. I haven't been able to wrap my mind around how to do that with bravewriter, has anyone been able to do this? Would bravewriter's patternership with writing help with that? My Dd had a pretty good break from "academic" writing over the summer, so I feel like I need to do something with her. I agree that pushing her isn't going to fix her anxiety over this. I really like the idea of stepping back and doing the actual physical writing for her for a while, this is what I ended up doing the other day with her TC assignment, it made a huge difference. When she is ready to step back up to the plate I am sure she will let me know. In the meantime I am really going to take on the challenge of trying to figure out how to make bravewriter work. I would love to hear how others are able to make bravewriter work for their family, and your schedules/routines that you have. Thank you all again, all of you have given me a lot to think about and more confidence that I can do this. 😀

 

ETA: I am also going to look more into R&S grammar, Write On, and Spectrum Language Arts. Thank you for all of these suggestions. 😀

[TerriMI]

I every time I ask her to write about something. I am at a loss as what to do. I feel completely inadequate when it comes to teaching writing, so I feel like I need the hand holding of a curriculum. My plan was to use Classical Writing with her this year, but before I invest in that should I be considering something like IEW?

  I agree with the posts about studying grammar thoroughly either before or alongside of.

 

I disagree with the post about CW causing too much pain.  On the contrary, everyone I know that has done CW's Aesop, the program's easiest level,  has LOVED it. I myself have used it with students who range as young as 4th grade and as old as Srs in high school. The writing portion of Aesop takes away the problem of invention by having students imitate fables and other short stories.  Students are free to embellish or to change up elements of the story as long as the message of the story remains the same.

[Piper]

Have you been in my house? :p You just described my dd (just turned 10) quite accurately!  She has written her own poems and stories since she was quite little, but trying to do narrations for history and also the WWE answers was like pulling teeth.  Painful!  And I'm also someone who is not super confident with teaching writing - in fact, I feel like I've been floundering with this for years!

 

That said, here's how things have gone down for us. We worked our painful way through WWE 1 & 2, but gave up very quickly on WWE3. It was not a good fit.  We did TC for half a year, which was OK but not brilliant for her.  

 

For this year I bought BW Partnership Writing, which we are not using totally religiously: we are using the projects (worked on once a week), Friday freewrites (once a week), and poetry teas (about once a week), and I have to say that it has really injected a lot of the "fun" spirit back into writing (as a school subject) for dd.  She gets to have the fun in creative writing that comes naturally to her, while at the same time learning some of the important composition skills that are not always so fun to learn. I do recommend BW for this.  I love that dd (and ds, who is tagging along) will have these fun projects to look back on, while learning something in each project. We all get a kick out of the freewrites, and that approach is totally suited to dd's style. And everyone loves the poetry teas! I'm really happy with how BW is fitting into our school, and the results it's getting in terms of dd enjoying her writing. So that's my 0.02c on BW. :001_smile:

 

I'm also working slowly through CAP W&R with dd. I like the structured teaching, and it's going pretty well with her - I see her slowly developing skills that she has struggled with a lot, so that's a good thing. We're almost ready to move into Narrative I, so we'll see how that goes.

 

And I do echo what other posters have said - R&S Grammar is a must-do around here. Yes, R&S also teaches some composition skills, which is an added bonus. I can't say how well those concepts are sticking with dd, as the teaching is pretty dry, but I do see the grammar portion being really useful and well-retained.

 

Anyway, as you probably figured out, I'm no expert in this, but your dd sounds so like mine, and I just wanted to share what seems to be working here...for today at least!  :p  Hope it helps some!  Good luck!

[Targhee]

Have patience.

 

At 9 my dd hated IEW - it was insulting to her creative nature to have to rewrite someone else's story. And she had fine motor issues from the time she was 1.5 years old, which meant writing was slow, painful, and tedious. We stopped, focused on handwriting, and listening to read alouds and reading great books.

 

At 10 my dd balked at WWE - it was too difficult for her to summarize. Although she could see the forest for the trees, she was so enamoured by the "tress" that she couldn't leave a single species or speciment out. Asking her to winow down the story to a 3 sentence summary was like me asking you to envision a great, detailed, masterwork of art (think a Bruegel village scene) and tell me what is the most important part of the painting. We did OT for the fine motor issues, stopped WWE and didn't replace it with anything except more time to read.

 

At 11 we tried Write@Home, which she did write for, but the grading was easy and the teaching was light. She had weekly creative writing assignments for an online leadership class, which she did and loved, and learned to type. And read and discussed books.

 

At 12 she began a Shakespeare class with weekly opinion papers - grading was non-existant (only positive feedback give, no corrections and no rewrites) and the teaching of composition was nonexistent. BUT, she also started NaNoWriMo and was writing a lot, her own story. And still reading a great deal (including Shakespeare and other great works).

 

At 13 (now) she is doing a condensed syllabus of WWS 1 & 2, and she can do the summaries and outlines - it took her much less time to learn it at this age and catch up to the level expected of those using WWE 1-4. She was cognitively ready for this task. And we managed to preserve her love for writing, and develop her voice, vocabulary, and creativity through all that reading and creative writing.

 

Have patience.

[Kat w]

I agree with Susan in tx.

 

She's only 10 and....she DOES write :) be happy with that. Very happy. Technical writing will come in time.

 

Focus in grammar. I love a combo of things . FLL and easy grammar for page practice.

 

Really she's doing g good doing her creative writing. The goal at this point is to foster the LOVE of writing. You don't want to squelch thst.

:)

[Kat w]

FWIW,

MY oldest would only write creatively til about age 12 or 13.

She'd write about her cat, plays with her friends and act them out....

Then, I gave her writing strands. She BLEW through it.

 

She is now in college with a GPA of 3.9 and change. I forget the smal percentage point , and hoping to go premed.

 

College is ALL writing. Except for math and science.

 

She'll get there. Jjs let her love it for now :)

Edited December 4, 2015 by Kat w