pitterpatter Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I've been thinking about this for some time, but I'm so reluctant to give up the AAS rules (and sound cards). The program makes so much sense to DH and me. DH is an undiagnosed dyslexic and wishes he had AAS when he was a child. I'm not dyslexic, but wish the same thing. We are extremely reluctant to give up the explicit rules-based spelling approach, but it's becoming quite clear that using the AAS program as written is not working for DD. She's 8 and is undoubtedly dyslexic as well. I'm trying to adapt the program for her, but it's wearing me down. I've received a lot of great ideas from Merry and other board members, and I've been working on implementing those, but I feel so unqualified. And frankly, I don't want to (don't have the time to) spend countless hours reworking a curriculum. I just want to use one as written that works. I'm worried that if we give up explicit rules-based spelling, DD won't have anything to fall back on when she gets to a word not taught in a program like Apples & Pears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I wonder if she's just too far along right now. Level 3 is pretty far for an 8 year-old with dyslexia. Maybe she's just not ready for that level yet. When I adapted for my kids, I didn't spend any extra time prepping. We just reviewed the cards within our lesson time, or went back to review lessons if needed, and so on. Most of what I did just meant letting a lesson stretch over more days so that they had time to absorb the material. Anyway, hope you get good feedback on Apples & Pears as you decide how to proceed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirstenhill Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm doing Apples and Pears with my 8 year old DS this year after using rule-and-phonogram based instruction in K - 2nd with Logic of English (and using LOE methods with other lists as well). He specifically requested a workbook for spelling this year and I've been curious about Apples and Pears for a while so I decided to give it a try. While the method is very different, I feel like the foundation of having learned rules and phonograms was a great base for continuing on and practicing with Apples and Pears. Not sure if you would experience quite the same thing making the transition from AAS. He was exposed to all the rules and all 74 basic phonograms, he just needed continuing practice. I point out what rules and phonograms are involved in each lesson for A and P, even though that's not part of the program. Too soon to say if this is effective or not, but he is liking it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 I'm halfway wondering whether there might be a way to add rules to the A&P program. Today, I tried to somewhat model A&P using AAS. I had DD sort, read and then copy the green word cards while sounding them out. After that, I dictated them to her, along with a couple of sentences. She didn't miss any of the new words. I guess tomorrow I'm going to have her read through the same green cards and then dictate them to her. Afterward, I'll have her read through the "more words" and then I'll dictate those to her and a couple of sentences. Last week, I tried having her read through a small group of green cards from past lessons that she consistently gets wrong right before I dictated them to her. That didn't really help...she still missed all but one. What's kind of weird, we had a couple of lessons in R&S English where she was supposed to identify the correct spellings of some words (each from a group of two misspelled and one correct), she nearly got all of them correct and they were well beyond what we're studying in AAS (calendar, animals, etc.). I couldn't believe it. I'm doing Apples and Pears with my 8 year old DS this year after using rule-and-phonogram based instruction in K - 2nd with Logic of English (and using LOE methods with other lists as well). He specifically requested a workbook for spelling this year and I've been curious about Apples and Pears for a while so I decided to give it a try. While the method is very different, I feel like the foundation of having learned rules and phonograms was a great base for continuing on and practicing with Apples and Pears. Not sure if you would experience quite the same thing making the transition from AAS. He was exposed to all the rules and all 74 basic phonograms, he just needed continuing practice. I point out what rules and phonograms are involved in each lesson for A and P, even though that's not part of the program. Too soon to say if this is effective or not, but he is liking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I also have an 8 year old dyslexic in Level 3 of AAS. When you say it is not working, what exactly do you mean? Retention of spelling will be very low for dyslexics in general, that is part of the dyslexia, so if you are not seeing retention or the spelling doesn't transfer over to writing, that is to be expected. I see slow and steady improvement with my dyslexics using AAS, but spelling will always be a struggle for them. They are not likely to recognize that they have spelled a word wrong, for example, and need a specialized spell checker when they write. There is not spelling program in the world that would make them fabulous spellers though. ;) *gently* Do you have appropriate expectations for teaching a dyslexic (especially a young dyslexic) spelling? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Probably not, as this is my first time on this pony. DD is an only child too. I think part of my struggle is figuring out when to go on. I am very much a box checker. I thrive on clear paths of progression. I feel like DD needs to spell each word correctly three times in a row without hesitation/massive self-correcting (spread out over a number of days/weeks) before I put it in the mastered pile. However, she understand the lessons/rules, etc. just fine, so if we spend any more than about four days per step, she starts getting annoyed, frustrated and bored. It doesn't take long before we have a goodly stack of green cards. While I sprinkle light review in throughout the week, we do nothing but review on Fridays. Last Friday, I was able to transfer a whopping three cards to the mastered section (and I was being a wee bit generous because I know she can spell them correctly outside of spelling). I do see some slow progression and she does spell some/many words correctly outside of spelling, but she spells a whole lot of words she should/is supposed to know incorrectly too. For reference, we use AAS 15-20 minutes a day, five times a week. Just for yucks, I gave DH (an undiagnosed dyslexic who is just now realizing just how dyslexic he really is) a spelling test of 16 words DD has been having problems with lately. He missed two. I just about fell over because they are really easy words. That gave me some perspective. I also have an 8 year old dyslexic in Level 3 of AAS. When you say it is not working, what exactly do you mean? Retention of spelling will be very low for dyslexics in general, that is part of the dyslexia, so if you are not seeing retention or the spelling doesn't transfer over to writing, that is to be expected. I see slow and steady improvement with my dyslexics using AAS, but spelling will always be a struggle for them. They are not likely to recognize that they have spelled a word wrong, for example, and need a specialized spell checker when they write. There is not spelling program in the world that would make them fabulous spellers though. ;) *gently* Do you have appropriate expectations for teaching a dyslexic (especially a young dyslexic) spelling? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Fwiw, I would not measure the success of AAS by spelling the word correctly three times and expecting it to be mastered. Dyslexics can spell a word correctly five times one day, and blow it the next day or week. Dyslexia is a whole different processing system for language and it just doesn't work linearly. I don't actually use the AAS cards for mastery at all. We work through the book, making sure the content & rules are learned. We review with dictation and Ginger turned on. If there are issues with spelling a word, we review the *rule*, fix the word visually, either with Ginger or re-writing, talk about AAS strategies to imprint that word visually, and then move to multi-sensory with finger spelling or spelling on backs or arms. IMHO, I'm not sure AAS will work for a dyslexic if you expect mastery of each word as you progress through the steps. Yes, the spelling should get better as you proceed, but spelling mastery is just not how it works for dyslexics, no matter what program you are using. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Apples & Pears teaches spelling rules. It's just very different than an O-G or Spalding program. Rules aren't memorized as a separate activity, they are learned in the process of the lesson. You would not be giving up learning the spelling rules if you switched. Don't let that be the reason to switch or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thank you. I'm giving AAS one more shot. DD did pretty well this week with the new method of allowing her to visually see and copy the words before spelling them. She only missed one or two the first day and none the section, but perhaps she just knew this step's words to begin with. We're going back to test the method on some older, more troublesome words today. Keeping my fingers crossed... Apples & Pears teaches spelling rules. It's just very different than an O-G or Spalding program. Rules aren't memorized as a separate activity, they are learned in the process of the lesson. You would not be giving up learning the spelling rules if you switched. Don't let that be the reason to switch or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Thank you. I'm giving AAS one more shot. DD did pretty well this week with the new method of allowing her to visually see and copy the words before spelling them. She only missed one or two the first day and none the section, but perhaps she just knew this step's words to begin with. We're going back to test the method on some older, more troublesome words today. Keeping my fingers crossed... Some kids need more visualization than others. Making them stop and take a mental picture, cover the word, spell it aloud, then copy helps a great deal. That, and keep a very tight spiral review. Apples & Pears has a ton of visualization built into the lessons. It also has the teacher spell a word aloud, the student then says the word and then writes. That makes them hold that visual memory of a word from a different angle. You could mix it up with that trick too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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