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Rod &Staff or CLE for independence


Spillman6
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I am looking for the most independent curriculum I can get. I have a 2nd and 3rd grader moving from Abeka this year. I am really unsure about language. I am familiar with CLE as we use it for math already but I have only seen samples of Rod & Staff. I am leaning towards R&S for Language, and I am hoping it won't be much more teacher intensive than CLE. I am somewhat concerned after looking at samples of R&S Spelling as I think my 9yo son will fly through those lists. In fact I think he might test out of most of them w/o much difficulty. Samples of CLE spelling are even more concerning. What's a Momma to do? "Open and go" and being as independent as possible are my priorities....right along with cost.

 

I have an almost 16 yo daughter that is needing lots of "encouragement" right now. We are trying to finish up 9th grade from last year and my 2 littlest are very busy right now and need almost constant supervision. ( My one year old is hitting and biting and my 2 yo tries to carry little brother by picking him up by his neck... not good.. Like I said, constant supervision. ) We are also trying to get our house built before winter. I am very committed to homeschooling so please no discouragement there.

 

We already took a year off 2 years ago so that is not an option. Any ideas?

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I am looking for the most independent curriculum I can get. I have a 2nd and 3rd grader moving from Abeka this year. I am really unsure about language. I am familiar with CLE as we use it for math already but I have only seen samples of Rod & Staff. I am leaning towards R&S for Language, and I am hoping it won't be much more teacher intensive than CLE. I am somewhat concerned after looking at samples of R&S Spelling as I think my 9yo son will fly through those lists. In fact I think he might test out of most of them w/o much difficulty. Samples of CLE spelling are even more concerning. What's a Momma to do? "Open and go" and being as independent as possible are my priorities....right along with cost.

 

I have an almost 16 yo daughter that is needing lots of "encouragement" right now. We are trying to finish up 9th grade from last year and my 2 littlest are very busy right now and need almost constant supervision. ( My one year old is hitting and biting and my 2 yo tries to carry little brother by picking him up by his neck... not good.. Like I said, constant supervision. ) We are also trying to get our house built before winter. I am very committed to homeschooling so please no discouragement there.

 

We already took a year off 2 years ago so that is not an option. Any ideas?

 

Used as it is intended, most R&S texts can be used independently. Everything the children need to know is right in their books (exceptions for a few things--1-3 gr. arithmetic, at least the first two years of phonics/reading). There is a scripted oral class time in the teacher manual, but it only says exactly what is in the student text. Read through the lesson yourself the day before so you know what's coming, decide if your dc will do all of the activities or not, let him read through the lesson, do the oral exercises (if any) with him, send him off to do his assignment, make corrections. Rinse and repeat. :-)

 

Spelling by Sound and Structure from fourth grade and up is very good. It is not that the word list is very difficult; it is that the exercises are challenging. SSS is my favorite traditional spelling series. :-)

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R&S spelling isn't about memorizing lists of words. The meat is in the exercises. I'd place DC in the series at grade level, or ahead one grade level if they're really good at it. The only one of my DC who worked ahead of level was/is ahead in literally every subject. The exercises alone have value, and it keeps spelling a short 'n sweet yet effective lesson. My children do complete these books largely independently, asking me to call words at the end of the lesson as needed.

 

My 2nd and 3rd graders weren't effective at teaching themselves grammar with any book, so I'm no help there.

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WithR+S my oldest started being able to read the lesson and do the work in Grade 3. My daughter needs me to teach her the lesson (we're doing 3 in Grade 4) but, it takes about 5 minutes of my time. She reads the lesson aloud, we look at any examples, I make sure she understands how to do the exercises, and then I leave her with about 1/2 the exercises to do, and check them next day. So far, no problem, and she's getting the hang of how it works. 

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R&S Spelling is deceptive. It looks easy when you look at the word list, but the actual exercises make the kid think. Two of mine are using it alongside CLE LA. Third kid is just using CLE LA's spelling for now, since he is a natural speller. The other two are not.

 

The main differences between R&S English and CLE LA are:

- R&S is a textbook, CLE a workbook

- R&S takes a more mastery approach - learning about sentences, then nouns, then verbs, etc. You might have several lessons in a row on nouns. Plenty of review is included throughout, of course. CLE is spiral like the math is - learning small bits at a time from different topics. So one lesson might be about nouns, then the next is capitalization, then the next is using a comma in a series, then you might come back around to something else about nouns. Meanwhile, most of the lesson is reviewing previous topics.

- R&S puts spelling and handwriting in separate workbooks. CLE has them built in, though that can be an issue if your kid isn't on the same level in all LA subjects. My 3rd grade is mainly using CLE LA for grammar and writing. The spelling is a bit too much for him, so he uses R&S Spelling a grade behind. And hens not ready for the cursive handwriting in CLE grade 3 (we tried... I've ordered a separate workbook that will include more practice with individual strokes). My first grader, otoh, is doing fine with CLE LA spelling and handwriting. He'll start beginning cursive soon (he's in 203 now). I don't expect any problems for him.

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SchoolAid/Pathway would be another option. I'm using climbing to good English with my two older kids and like it. It is very independent and cheap (cheaper then either CLE or R&S). I'm using parts of their second grade math (conventional arithmetic with spunky the donkey) for my daughter, it's also pretty independent. I'm not crazy about it, but it's ok. it's a lot of problems per page and there are three pages a day. So it seems like way more writing then my kids can handle. But we're used to Singapore, lots of white space. Third grade and up has a different name, study time math, and has a totally different format.

 

You mention LA specifically, they have climbing to good English for grammar and writing, practical spelling (though R&S spelling looks better), pentime for handwriting, and readers with workbooks for vocabulary and comprehension. Milestones books has good samples.

 

Eta: I'm not just throwing more curriculum suggestions at you. Lol. SchoolAid is very similar to R&S, but it's in workbook format.

 

A-yep. CLE math, CTGE (and accouterments) are what I am using as our foundation as this is a new-baby year. I don't have them work independently, rather they sit next to me so we can chat about it as they go through their work. But it's a zero-prep, high-retention, slow and steady get me ready kid of curriculum choice!

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I am so glad I took the time to post this question. The feedback I get here is very much appreciated. I have looked a bit more closely at the two programs' samples online and I think we could make Rod and Staff work for us. I also read through a few other threads here.

 

Ellie, I read in a different thread where you wrote that if used as written, Rod and Staff English also teaches writing. I can see that from looking at the samples online. I also read that you recommend having the student write out the assignment as opposed to filling in answers in a workbook (like CLE) or doing work orally. Just wondering if I will be able to determine how much writing my boy can handle/needs and how much I can do orally while still getting the most out of this curriculum. (I do push at times/when needed and with discernment)  Sorry I did not take the time to find those exact quotes from you. And I realise this may be a question only I can answer. Anyhow. 

 

I have fleeting thoughts of trying WWE again (I have tried it in the past) and while my children did well, I had a hard time teaching. I think it was a slower pace than what I am used to and I was left feeling as though we werent  getting anything accomplished. I am so used to rushing through every day to finish each DVD lesson that if I am not exhausted and exasperated then I must not have accomplished enough. It is a terrible place to be, but I am learning.  With that said, and if Rod and Staff will take care of writing for us also, all the better.

 

Hope this all makes sense to someone. Thanks for listening!

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We have used Rod and Staff for English without a separate writing curriculum until now.  I did require copywork, narrations, and dictation from our literature, though.  In 4th grade we also began Classical Composition from Memoria Press, which is very classical and different from R&S.  Honestly, I still think R&S plus copywork/ dictation would still be enough, as long as you are writing some summaries or narrations for history or other subjects once in a while.

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Ellie, I read in a different thread where you wrote that if used as written, Rod and Staff English also teaches writing. I can see that from looking at the samples online. I also read that you recommend having the student write out the assignment as opposed to filling in answers in a workbook (like CLE) or doing work orally. Just wondering if I will be able to determine how much writing my boy can handle/needs and how much I can do orally while still getting the most out of this curriculum. (I do push at times/when needed and with discernment)  Sorry I did not take the time to find those exact quotes from you. And I realise this may be a question only I can answer. Anyhow. 

 

 

I don't know if there's any more actual physical writing in R&S's English than there is in a workbook. It is only that the children are writing on actual paper instead of filling in the blanks. It is that many people do the work orally instead of requiring the dc to write the answers, and then they skip the specific writing lessons, and so they miss R&S's genius. :-)

 

You can get the actual, physical samples by calling the company itself (the website is not owned by Rod and Staff Publishers) at (606) 522-4348. Also, the books are so inexpensive that you could go ahead and buy the book itself and read through it (again, buy directly from the company, because it might be easier to return materials, although I could just be making that up, lol).

 

Having to write on actual paper is better, IMHO, than filling in workbook pages. Besides the fact that it is what we mostly do IRL, handling a single piece of paper is easier than wrestling down a workbook, and it develops better penmanship skills because the children can turn the paper in the correct position--tricky to do with a workbook--and they have to think more carefully about how they are putting their words on the paper to make their assignments legible.

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We use rod and staff english, and I haven't used CLE. I actually let my boys use the textbook AS a workbook (!) as often as possible, if we aren't doing it orally. They aren't that expensive.....(can be if you have lots of kids I guess) Most things they can underline or circle the answer the exercise is looking for, if they have to write a sentence or diagram I have them do that on paper. This cuts down on the overwhelmed feeling they could get, it feels so much more doable when you just have to indicate somehow you know the answer. I understand the struggle getting them to write.

 

My kids don't work independently, but I would guess it would work if you kept them accountable. Maybe you could start each time with the 5 review questions from the teachers guide that start each lesson so you could gauge their retention/understanding.

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We have used Rod and Staff for English without a separate writing curriculum until now.  I did require copywork, narrations, and dictation from our literature, though.  In 4th grade we also began Classical Composition from Memoria Press, which is very classical and different from R&S.  Honestly, I still think R&S plus copywork/ dictation would still be enough, as long as you are writing some summaries or narrations for history or other subjects once in a while.

 

I agree with this.  There is plenty of writing in Rod and Staff.  For instance, even some of the grammar exercises contain hidden writing lessons.  They often have you re-write a sentence or come up with original sentences to practice the concept.  And there are assignments asking them to write about pictures.  Once you go through the lessons on paragraphs, outlining, book reports, etc., you can just assign them regularly for history, science or literature.

 

As far as how much to do written and how much to do orally:  Anything that asks for a 1 word answer, we do orally.  Anything that has them writing out complete sentences, we do in a composition notebook.  But I might not have them do every single sentence though.  And, we do the diagramming.  I make sure to always include any of the assignments that ask them to "write 4 sentences of your own".

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I have fleeting thoughts of trying WWE again (I have tried it in the past) and while my children did well, I had a hard time teaching. I think it was a slower pace than what I am used to and I was left feeling as though we werent  getting anything accomplished. I am so used to rushing through every day to finish each DVD lesson that if I am not exhausted and exasperated then I must not have accomplished enough. It is a terrible place to be, but I am learning.  With that said, and if Rod and Staff will take care of writing for us also, all the better.

 

Hope this all makes sense to someone. Thanks for listening!

 

Good luck this year!!  I know different seasons can be challenging, but I love how dedicated you are to your kids and what they need at this moment.  Just so you know, we are doing WWE here with my second grader.  It is our first year, so we are doing WWE 1 and I'm doing it double time.  She has never done formal narration so I knew starting out with the first level would be useful.  She has BLOSSOMED in her ability to narrate and I'm seeing this in other subjects (like science and history).  Anyway....we do the narration and the copywork all in one day.  So we end up getting through it more quickly and then I'll move on to WWE 2 around Christmas and will probably slow it down.  She LOVES her writing book, so the quicker pace works for us.  

 

I hope it all goes well for you!!

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I have fleeting thoughts of trying WWE again (I have tried it in the past) and while my children did well, I had a hard time teaching. I think it was a slower pace than what I am used to and I was left feeling as though we werent  getting anything accomplished. I am so used to rushing through every day to finish each DVD lesson that if I am not exhausted and exasperated then I must not have accomplished enough. It is a terrible place to be, but I am learning.  With that said, and if Rod and Staff will take care of writing for us also, all the better.

 

Hope this all makes sense to someone. Thanks for listening!

 

Good luck this year!!  I know different seasons can be challenging, but I love how dedicated you are to your kids and what they need at this moment.  Just so you know, we are doing WWE here with my second grader.  It is our first year, so we are doing WWE 1 and I'm doing it double time.  She has never done formal narration so I knew starting out with the first level would be useful.  She has BLOSSOMED in her ability to narrate and I'm seeing this in other subjects (like science and history).  Anyway....we do the narration and the copywork all in one day.  So we end up getting through it more quickly and then I'll move on to WWE 2 around Christmas and will probably slow it down.  She LOVES her writing book, so the quicker pace works for us.  

 

I hope it all goes well for you!!

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Rod and Staff can be used just as independently as CLE. The only thing you have to do with R&S is assign how much to do each day, while with CLE you just complete one lesson each day. My older kids even checked their own work when we used Rod&Staff.

 

In my experience, you don't really need to do any Language Arts (except phonics and reading) before 4th grade. You can just start Rod and Staff in the 4th grade book when they are in 4th grade and you will be fine. I also don't do a spelling program until 3rd grade. Before that we just work on phonics and reading.

 

Susan in TX

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