Chloe Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 My 7th grade son struggles with math. We are using TT for the first time this year. He tested into the grade 7 book, but I feel like he's not doing well. I don't like the second chances the program gives. He's dyslexic and has focus issues anyway, so I feel like having a second try at each problem gives him liberty to not pay close attention to his work. For that reason, I have a rule that if he has to redo three or more problems or gets three or more wrong in a lesson, he has to redo the lesson again the next day. Am I being unreasonable? He's only on lesson 17 so far and he's had to do the past four lessons a second time. Some of the errors are silly, not paying attention mistakes and some are forgetting how to work the problem. For example, today he forgot how to do long division. He's a kid who needs lots of repetition in a given concept, but also lots of review so he doesn't forget. Is TT not the right math program for him? It took him two hours to do his lesson today. He missed two practice problems and had to redo three of the lesson problems, still getting one of them wrong on the second try. I have Saxon, but feel like it would be too wordy for him due to his dyslexia. I could teach him the lesson, but he prefers to do most of his work independently. Any advice? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You might consider CLE. Less wordy, lots of review and repetition, etc. I would absolutely give the placement test. FWIW, I have two dyslexics. I like TT but it actually turned out to be a fairly poor fit here. CLE worked much better. I do add in things like Math In Focus enrichment problems and sometimes stuff from Beast Academy as well as Math Detective activities upon occasion but honestly CLE is a solid program. Sometimes there is too much review, though, so feel free to cross out some of the review problems. Also, my kids tend to do better if we do new material together on a dry erase board or with real life application scenarios, then they do the rest of the lesson on their own. Very independent. I recommend the CLE reference charts and the TM, too. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Oh and I did want to address the comment about silly mistakes in particular. Honestly, it may seem that math mistakes can be "silly" but for many kids all the steps involved in math can overload working memory. That means trying to even remember which number you are carrying or whether you are adding or subtracting or whatever can be quite challenging. Even doing simple addition successfully and with understanding means you have to have a basic sense of subitization, be able to link the number symbols to quantities, remember that the plus sign means you are combining amounts of things, that each number symbol represents a different quantity, that when you combine those quantities there is a specific amount that will result from that combination, etc. When you increase the complexity of the math problem, it can genuinely overload a brain that does not efficiently process all of that. The mistakes need to be dealt with, yes, but I wouldn't call them silly. I have seen how hard my DD tried to do math. Her mistakes aren't silly. They occur because many of these processes are not automatic and her brain goes into overload. CLE helped quite a bit, but no math program is going to solve every aspect of the struggles her brain goes through with math. You might consider reading How the Brain Learns Mathematics by David Sousa. Possibly run your son through the Ronit Bird e-books as well, if it looks like he needs them. Have you looked at Hands On Equations? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Teaching Textbooks is the only program that has worked for my dyslexic son. I agree with the previous poster that math mistakes aren't "silly." My son makes mistakes because he is dyslexic and because he has poor working memory. He works hard; his mistakes aren't careless. When my son misses problems, I go into the gradebook and delete them. He has to do those again the next day before he starts the next lesson. I wouldn't see the point of making him redo a whole lesson just to correct a few missed problems. And honestly, I don't teach my son math so he can work a bunch of problems with 100% accuracy. I teach him math so he can learn to think mathematically. For my son that will only come with repetition, which is why I like the spiral approach of TT. But it would be defeating to him to wipe out a whole lesson of work because he made a few mistakes. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Independent doesn't have to mean alone. You might make the policy that he has to do math with you in the room. You can sit in the back and knit or something. That way you can snap him back when his mind wanders, keep him from switching over to FB for breaks, whatever. Is his testing fresh? Is it possible he has SLD math as well? You might provide some support for things that involve sequencing. (Write out the sequence of steps on a card.) You mentioned attention issues. Is it an option to get that diagnosed and do meds? Mondays are ugly, and today is Monday, yes? You might try giving shorter assignments (half a lesson, whatever) on Sat and Sun. That way he'd be fresh on Monday and not have to transition back in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Teaching Textbooks is the only program that has worked for my dyslexic son. I agree with the previous poster that math mistakes aren't "silly." My son makes mistakes because he is dyslexic and because he has poor working memory. He works hard; his mistakes aren't careless. When my son misses problems, I go into the gradebook and delete them. He has to do those again the next day before he starts the next lesson. I wouldn't see the point of making him redo a whole lesson just to correct a few missed problems. And honestly, I don't teach my son math so he can work a bunch of problems with 100% accuracy. I teach him math so he can learn to think mathematically. For my son that will only come with repetition, which is why I like the spiral approach of TT. But it would be defeating to him to wipe out a whole lesson of work because he made a few mistakes. Awesome post. I recently talked to a dear friend about how she does math with her kids. She presents a lesson, works through every problem in the textbook and workbook, every mistake has to be corrected, and then she tests every few days. I'm glad that that method worked for her family, but my first thought was that my own kids would have smoke coming out of their ears if I took that approach everyday, and they would hate math for forever. Thinking about it more, I started to think, as a former professional educator, that her goal seems to be to make a perfect ___ grader while mine is to make kids who are lifelong learners. Her approach works for her kids but I have to work out what will meet my goals. I think it will turn out well in the end for both of us, in any case. FWIW, I do have my kids correct mistakes, but I also see what those mistakes are and how any issues might be efficiently addressed without causing frustration and depleting their valuable mental energy. I don't test on a regular basis or in the early years because I'm involved in their work and I know what the problems are. We don't have dyslexia here but SPD and ADHD. Because of the ADHD, I know there will a good amount of errors, and I have to look at all mistakes and judge if it's just a brain glitch or true lack of understanding. I will overlook isolated brain glitch errors but work on anything that reveals a lack of understanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 My 7th grade son struggles with math. We are using TT for the first time this year. He tested into the grade 7 book, but I feel like he's not doing well. I don't like the second chances the program gives. He's dyslexic and has focus issues anyway, so I feel like having a second try at each problem gives him liberty to not pay close attention to his work. For that reason, I have a rule that if he has to redo three or more problems or gets three or more wrong in a lesson, he has to redo the lesson again the next day. Am I being unreasonable? He's only on lesson 17 so far and he's had to do the past four lessons a second time. Some of the errors are silly, not paying attention mistakes and some are forgetting how to work the problem. For example, today he forgot how to do long division. He's a kid who needs lots of repetition in a given concept, but also lots of review so he doesn't forget. Is TT not the right math program for him? It took him two hours to do his lesson today. He missed two practice problems and had to redo three of the lesson problems, still getting one of them wrong on the second try. I have Saxon, but feel like it would be too wordy for him due to his dyslexia. I could teach him the lesson, but he prefers to do most of his work independently. Any advice? TIA! How many questions are in a lesson? (I haven't used TT.) If he is missing 3 out of 50 (94%), I think it is unreasonable to redo the lesson. If he is missing 3 out of 10 (70%), it seems that he may need to do the lesson again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Each lesson has five practice problems and between 20-24 lesson problems. So if the kid missed 3 out of (for example) 29 problems, that's still 89.6% correct. If me missed 3 out of 25, that's 88%. My personal threshold for math is if my kids get 85%, I am satisfied that they understand the concept. Since TT is spiral, you have to pay attention to which problems are missed. If the kid gets every problem from the concept presented that day correct but misses every problem that relates to something learned 4 weeks ago, then you know that he needs review of that specific concept, not a re-do of the whole lesson. At least, that's my opinion. It's a lot of wasted time to make a kid re-do problems he already got correct so that you can address the few he got wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbakos Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I might consider switching to TT6 to see if that makes a difference. He can always work through it faster if it ends up being mostly review. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I might consider switching to TT6 to see if that makes a difference. He can always work through it faster if it ends up being mostly review. There have been times when my son has done two or even three lessons a day, depending on how easy he felt the material was. Right now he is back to one lesson a day, but his pace has varied over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You might consider CLE. Less wordy, lots of review and repetition, etc. I would absolutely give the placement test. FWIW, I have two dyslexics. I like TT but it actually turned out to be a fairly poor fit here. CLE worked much better. I do add in things like Math In Focus enrichment problems and sometimes stuff from Beast Academy as well as Math Detective activities upon occasion but honestly CLE is a solid program. Sometimes there is too much review, though, so feel free to cross out some of the review problems. Also, my kids tend to do better if we do new material together on a dry erase board or with real life application scenarios, then they do the rest of the lesson on their own. Very independent. I recommend the CLE reference charts and the TM, too. I'm so glad to read this. I just quit TT and have CLE on the way. I wanted err needed to like TT. I wanted something to be independent!! But TT is just not working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Repetition is important for dyslexics. For that reason my dd has always thrived with horizons math because of all the repetition. She might not like it but it works. Mastery math would not work. I would suggest Cle or horizons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Either way be sure to use the placement tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I'm so glad to read this. I just quit TT and have CLE on the way. I wanted err needed to like TT. I wanted something to be independent!! But TT is just not working. CLE is actually not too terribly teacher-intensive. It's served us extremely well and I hope you guys have success with it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 When my son misses problems, I go into the gradebook and delete them. He has to do those again the next day before he starts the next lesson. I wouldn't see the point of making him redo a whole lesson just to correct a few missed problems. How do y do this? I'd like to delete the wrong ones in the grade book so that ds can redo it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 You get into the gradebook, click on the lesson, click E for edit on the problems your son got wrong, and select Delete. HTH! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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