Trying to get DD to accept slower (more boring) activities during OT

[nature girl]

So my DD associates OT with climbing/swinging/bouncing, etc., which of course she loves. But since I'm able to do sensory activities at home, really the main reason I have her there is for the other activities they'll be able to introduce her to (like Zones and The Listening Program.) The therapist started talking to her about Zones yesterday, showing her the happy/contented faces in the green zone, and she just wouldn't sit still for it, she kept pulling away to try to go into the rooms with all the equipment. Understandably so, but our time there is so limited, and I don't want to be paying all this money and driving all that way for what's basically a playground.

 

Have any of you had this problem? There are probably no easy answers, but do any of you have thoughts on how I can get an ADHD kid to sit still when she just wants to run around on all the colorful equipment and have fun? Both the therapist and I tried bribery and ultimatums, but oh my word, the fuss she raised...  :closedeyes:

[Starr]

Start with some of the quiet learning and then some time with the equipment. Cut back the active time incrementally. ?? Or plan a trip to the park after you are finished.

[EKS]

Our OT used the swings and things as a reward for focused work on less exciting activities.

[kbutton]

And remember, she's on the young side for Zones. I think the same company has a program for younger kids. It may be something that you introduce and work on over time. Just getting them to identify with help what the zones mean and then being able to talk about them and apply it at home is good (and you need to apply it to everyone, not just her). 

[gingersmom]

I used to bribe my son to behave at OT by letting him pick out anything he wanted at 7-11 on the way home.

[PeterPan]

Not what you're wanting to hear, but I'd be focusing on her body.  Then, when her body has slowed down a bit, she'll be ready for talk stuff.  

 

With duct tape (kinesio tape) *and* Therapeutic Listening *and* neurofeedback *and working on his reflexes, my ds is almost stable enough to have some of these conversations.  They're still really short.  Like today the OT brought out just one page from Zones where it was the 4 zones, and they just discussed for a minute as a functional thing like what zone do you feel like you're in, how do you think you'd need to feel for school work, what choice could we make to get in that zone... So he suggested a choice, they did the activity, and then they went to the thing the OT wanted to do (writing on a piece of paper).  But the point is, same age kid, very similar labels, and that's about all we get, just like 1-2 minutes of interaction.  And I had already done zones stuff with him at home months ago, building this foundation of names for emotions, nuances of emotions, etc.  

 

To sit there and just try to have a session just would not fly.  Talking is way easier for the OT than DOING.  I know we want to think well of our therapists, but don't.  Be cynical and ask why she's spending any significant time when that time would be better spent doing things that actually deal with the physical problems.  My ds is about as physical and volatile as it gets, and we're getting him to calm down.  That's what you want to see.  THEN do some of that talk therapy.  Or, as we say with our first/then chart, FIRST get the body calmed down, THEN do talk therapies.  :)

[Guest]

Anna's Mom, I remember you talking about the calming effect that nature walks have on your girl. Have you tried perhaps doing the nature walk prior to OT, then doing the concentration stuff next, and finally the fun stuff?

 

I have been looking into nature study as a form of therapy for better focus, stress relief, working on observation skills etc. Still not sure how I will implement it in our home but I came across a mention that getting in touch with nature can be very calming and help ADHD kids with focus so I thought I would mention it after reading your post.

[geodob]

Though does she have the muscle control, to sit still?

Which involves muscle stasis control.

( Stasis: the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.)

All of our muscles exist in teams, where they contract and extend in coordination with other.

 

Then when they stay still?

They don't go 'floppy'?

Rather they establish and maintain a balanced state of tension.

So that when you 'sit still'?

A whole network of muscle teams throughout your body, head and limbs.

A held in a balanced state of tension.

 

But if one is unable to achieve and maintain this network of stasis/ balanced muscle tension?

Then the muscles need to kept constantly active.

Siting still, requires more muscle control than movement.

[nature girl]

Not what you're wanting to hear, but I'd be focusing on her body.  Then, when her body has slowed down a bit, she'll be ready for talk stuff.  

 

To sit there and just try to have a session just would not fly.  Talking is way easier for the OT than DOING.  I know we want to think well of our therapists, but don't.  Be cynical and ask why she's spending any significant time when that time would be better spent doing things that actually deal with the physical problems.  My ds is about as physical and volatile as it gets, and we're getting him to calm down.  That's what you want to see.  THEN do some of that talk therapy.  Or, as we say with our first/then chart, FIRST get the body calmed down, THEN do talk therapies.   :)

 

 

Though does she have the muscle control, to sit still?

Which involves muscle stasis control.

( Stasis: the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.)

All of our muscles exist in teams, where they contract and extend in coordination with other.

 

 

She really is able to sit and have long conversations when she finds something interesting, with very few extra movements. Conversations about animals/bugs or inspired by books, for example, can go on forever without her needing to get up. The problem is when there's something else exciting around, she's too distractible. Which of course is an ADHD issue, you can only focus on what you want to focus on, and if there's anything more appealing around you, that's where your mind goes.

 

Cricket, your idea is a great one, there's actually woods out behind the office so we could try taking a walk to get her in the right frame of mind...And if I prepared her by saying the therapist was going to talk to her for awhile before she got on the equipment, she might be more prepared to realize it's not all going to be fun.

 

We've been doing a lot of identifying zones, the states we're in, and she's gotten a pretty good grasp of it I think. Like...we were watching Songs of the Sea last night, she was sobbing for the last 10 minutes of it...It's a pretty powerful ending, but I was kind of amazed by how profoundly it affected her. (The last few minutes actually are sad, but she started crying well before that.) So I asked if she could think about how she was feeling and she thought a minute, and then she said, "I feel partway happy green, but also a little blue and also lots of ways that aren't a color or a word." Which I thought was a decent understanding of herself.

 

But I have no idea where to go from here with it...I guess the point is for her to not just recognize her own feelings but to understand how her reactions to moods affect other people, and find ways to get back into green, and that's something I don't think I can do without a trained therapist. I guess I'm just impatient, the emotional issues have been the hardest thing for her (for all of us really) and I guess I was hoping for tools to work on it all sooner rather than later.

[PeterPan]

The neurofeedback (Zengar) sessions take sort of a baseline as the session begins and then repeat at the end to see changes.  With dd the line went from jagged to smooth.  What's interesting is ds, with his tape on, STARTS with smooth lines.  Without the tape (like he was this week), bumpy, crazy bumpy.  It's sort of weird, but it's actually imprecise demonstration (for whatever the machine is worth for accuracy) that the crazy kinesio taping actually is chilling him.  

 

Similarly, the Therapeutic Listening is chilling things down and making him less reactive.  I'm starting to get comments about him from people seeing the difference.  Actually, what they're commenting on is the change in motor planning (improvement) and the decrease in sensory seeking.  That's WILD.  

 

Keep sorting through things, trying things.  For ds it's like each thing gives him 10%.  It seems puny, but you get enough 10%s and eventually you start to get a whole child or at least a functional child.  So that's Zones + this + that +...  kwim?  

 

For us, the therapy things are what puts him in a better state. (zones, moving from blue to green, etc.) BalavisX puts him in a better state.  His sensory tent puts him in a better state.  So it has taken some time to figure out those things and for him to learn how to use those things and realize they do that for him and that he likes them.  

[ktgrok]

Though does she have the muscle control, to sit still?

Which involves muscle stasis control.

( Stasis: the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.)

All of our muscles exist in teams, where they contract and extend in coordination with other.

 

Then when they stay still?

They don't go 'floppy'?

Rather they establish and maintain a balanced state of tension.

So that when you 'sit still'?

A whole network of muscle teams throughout your body, head and limbs.

A held in a balanced state of tension.

 

But if one is unable to achieve and maintain this network of stasis/ balanced muscle tension?

Then the muscles need to kept constantly active.

Siting still, requires more muscle control than movement.

 

Huh. This explains why kneeling on the floor at church last week (got to Mass late, so standing room only, which translates to kneeling on the floor instead of having a cushy kneeler) was so hard! I'd worked out and the fronts of my legs were very sore, and I kept feeling my muscles twitching as I tried to stay still and upright. It was really hard!

[Guest]

I have not tried any of the things OhE mentions here and we don't have ADHD in the mix but I agree that it's a combined effort that helps in the long run. It has been my approach from the start as well.

 

I remember when my youngest would sleep for about three hours at a time and then be up for 6 or more. Since he was a newborn he slept much less than other babies and children. 6 months after we went gluten and casein free he finally started sleeping for 9 to 10 consecutive hours. Prior to that, I thought I was going to lose my mind it had been going on for so long! Then we had the impulsivity along with other behaviors of ASD. Things are getting to a point where our life is becoming more normal, now. Not what NT families would call normal I suppose but normal for us. We can function more as a family when we are out now and the behaviors have reduced. We can actually let go of my youngest son's hand (in safe places of course) and not have him run off.

 

Anyway, OhE has mentioned nutrition in other threads and it has been my focus here as well. We use oatmeal a lot and I add in banana and almonds (I make it with half water/ half almond milk, also). To sweeten it I add pure maple syrup which boosts the immune system. I add some dairy free chocolate chips on top and will sometimes add berries too. My boys love it :) It all helps!

 

ETA: I also make homemade oat waffles since oatmeal everyday would not work here.

[nature girl]

You're making me hungry, Cricket!! Who would've thought my mouth could water at a description of oatmeal toppings?

 

We've always had a healthy diet, mostly organic, lots of fruits and veggies. Since June Anna's been gf and df, and on high EPA fish oils, and I don't know if it's related but she isn't showing as many of the extreme behaviors we were seeing previously...Definitely less impulsivity, she's only hyperactive when she's over-excited (e.g., OT) and after dinner when tired, and we only see one meltdown a week rather than 4-5. Things aren't perfect, she ran off to the bathroom at the grocery store the other day without telling me (which freaked me out), she still has focus issues and she did hit DH last week when she was angry, but she used to hit or bite us unprovoked, or do things like throw sand on other kids when excited, then get upset at herself...her impulsivity was THAT bad.

 

It's amazing how subtle improvements add up, I can't even imagine her acting like that now. She also is much more likely to do things the first time we ask. Is it her sensory diet? The food restrictions and/or supplements? Or that we're responding to her differently now that we have a diagnosis? Maybe all of it together, but the more I think about it the more I'm beginning to see signs of hope. 

[Guest]

The oatmeal experiments originally started when I was pregnant. I never ate oatmeal prior to that. I later had to get even more creative to get my oldest to eat it. It was a texture thing for both of us so it really had to taste good to overpower that issue. I mash the banana in it. I mash banana in most of my pancake recipes also. My boys don't eat candy or chocolate bars, so pancakes and some chocolate chips on top of oatmeal are their treats. I bake cookies etc about once a week. I limit the use of sugar, replacing it with honey, and occasionally use some organic raw or brown sugar.

 

I remembered that you ate nutritious food prior to going gfcf. We did also. What I meant was using food to help in certain areas. I put a lot of focus on our immune system. I use honey and maple syrup as sweeteners. I use spices like cayenne pepper. I then use oatmeal, bananas, almonds, etc for their calming effect.

 

Yup, I never started the gfcf diet as a miracle cure. It's the subtle improvements I was at least hoping for, other than my main reason for cutting gluten. For our family it was the predisposition to hypothyroidism, mine from Hashimoto's (an immune system disorder) that was the main reason for putting us on the diets.

 

A combination of things helped here. Another was moving out of the city, the big backyard, quiet environment, nature all around us... Getting the diagnosis helped also. I learned how to tackle certain behaviors. The list goes on...

[PeterPan]

You're making me hungry, Cricket!! Who would've thought my mouth could water at a description of oatmeal toppings?

 

We've always had a healthy diet, mostly organic, lots of fruits and veggies. Since June Anna's been gf and df, and on high EPA fish oils, and I don't know if it's related but she isn't showing as many of the extreme behaviors we were seeing previously...Definitely less impulsivity, she's only hyperactive when she's over-excited (e.g., OT) and after dinner when tired, and we only see one meltdown a week rather than 4-5. Things aren't perfect, she ran off to the bathroom at the grocery store the other day without telling me (which freaked me out), she still has focus issues and she did hit DH last week when she was angry, but she used to hit or bite us unprovoked, or do things like throw sand on other kids when excited, then get upset at herself...her impulsivity was THAT bad.

 

It's amazing how subtle improvements add up, I can't even imagine her acting like that now. She also is much more likely to do things the first time we ask. Is it her sensory diet? The food restrictions and/or supplements? Or that we're responding to her differently now that we have a diagnosis? Maybe all of it together, but the more I think about it the more I'm beginning to see signs of hope. 

My guess is it's the subtle effect of the OT.  It builds up like that.