Tawlas Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Our dictation today: Crows are very smart. They can copy the sound of a human voice, but they can not sing very well. My daughter, nearly 9, has recently been recognized as possibly having auditory processing disorder. A lot of it fits her very well! I'm learning as I go here and I was wondering how people "do" dictations with a child with auditory processing disorder. I'm using CAP Fable and while I'm happy with the difficulty level as far as grammar and spelling goes (it's pretty compatible with her current spelling abilities), I've had to shorten the length to try and make it more manageable for her. She has a very hard time holding the sentences in her head. Still, she struggles, and with a very talkative 6 year old doing copy work with us and a toddler trying to join in with everything, it's not quiet and it's not easy for her to translate the sentences onto writing on the page. I would like her to practice this skill, I think it's important but I'm recognizing that it's tougher for her than it is for my next younger child. How do you do dictations with APD? Should I make her an exception and let her do it during our one-on-one time? Other recomendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliR Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Small chunks that make sense in isolation. For example, splitting subject and predicate. So it would be 'Crows' and then 'are very smart'. Enormous intakes of breath for a full stop, and an obvious pause for a comma. Some explaining if key words are not obvious from the context. So I would expect to say before dictating your passage to my daughter, "This is going to be about crows, you know the bird that goes caw and steals vegetables from the garden". Ask her to repeat back what she hears before writing it down. Saying out loud seems to help overcome some of the poor auditory memory that is bundled with CAPD. Fairly horrendous CAPD here with other language issues, and I could not have done dictation at 9 without tears from both of us (I confess to a ceremonial burning of WWE....) but it has got much better with age, now 13. But, and it is a big but as it is a skill that most would expect to acquire easily, dictating sentences in one go are still impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawlas Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Thank you AliR. subject/predicate split probably would make a lot of sense for her. We used WWE1 & 2, and they were getting really frustrating for her at the end. REALLY frustrating, even modified. Which is why I decided to use CAP Fable this year. Even with the much simpler AAS2 dictations, I have to get her to repeat it out loud, but with longer sentences this also doesn't reallly work. It's challenging before she even starts writing. I'll trying splitting the sentneces for her! Do you have other kids taking dictation at the same time? I've always had my two oldest do writing at the same time, but I suspect it gets to "noisy chaotic" for her. I'll help her through a rough spot, then help my son and as I speak to him I can practically see the words leaking out of her ears and she forgets what she was about to do . . . again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliR Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't think it is unreasonable to give your daughter a quiet work time for dictation. If you go the CAPD testing route, you will see that in most cases conflicting noise is bad, but conflicting speech pulls the performance level down a whole heap more. So it is better to change the environment to suit her needs. If she is going to succeed with writing, she does need to have the ability to hold her own thoughts as a sentence in her head, and dictation is a preparatory stage for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My husband has CAPD. From the time he was in second grade, he had partician fro. The rest of the class to do written work. It is such a struggle for him to focus when so much is going on around him. Even now, at 40, if he has majorly important work to write Ds and I leave the house. If we have a majorly important conversation to have we do it outside where there is very little to distract. He just has to focus all his energy on being able to uptake and process. I will say that the process of dictation more than likely would have greatly helped him. The act of physically turning the speech into words, then considering if those words make sense, would have been very helpful. If I could somehow convince him to repeat back to me what he thinks he heard me say, then have him consider if it makes any logical sense, we would have far fewer marital frustrations :) . Alas, I have a feeling that at the age of 40, he might consider that a bit insulting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My dd would with CAPD would have had smoke coming out of her ears and completely melt down if tried to do even a short dictation in a room with other people. Any noise interferes with her understanding, and visual distractions can be just as bad. Her auditory system works well when there are no distractions at all, so for someone like her the most benefit from dictation would be from being in a quiet room alone with the person reading the sentence or passage. Perhaps you could record it on a device and she could do it alone if you couldn't safely take yourself to another room and leave the other kids. I am using Spelling Wisdom with my 13 year old. I have her copy the passage as copywork, as the author recommends. Then she records it on her ipod herself and does dictation from it later. At first, I had her do the copywork in the morning and the dictation in the afternoon. But it's much easier for her to do the copywork one day and the dictation the next. This dd was tested for CAPD because she can show similar symptoms as my dd with CAPD, but in her case, it's ADHD distractiblity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Taking notes for later...newly diagnosed CAPD with DS 7. We're still unraveling what else might be afoot. (Probably ADHD at least.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawlas Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks so much everyone. Of course, giving her quiet one-on-one for dictation makes a lot of sense, not sure why I felt the need to ask. Just so unsure of myself right now! While I have you all here (I hope lol) can anyone share book or websites that they've found useful in raising/homeschooling a child with CAPD? I haven't found anything really stand outish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks so much everyone. Of course, giving her quiet one-on-one for dictation makes a lot of sense, not sure why I felt the need to ask. Just so unsure of myself right now! While I have you all here (I hope lol) can anyone share book or websites that they've found useful in raising/homeschooling a child with CAPD? I haven't found anything really stand outish. This isn't anything to do with homeschooling but I like the book by Terri Bellis, When the Brain Can't Hear. It was helpful for me because it discussed the subtypes of CAPD, and that information led me to much better understanding of her overall difficulties. I think what it said is that people with her type of CAPD often have visual and visual motor weaknesses, and the further testing we did spurred by what I read in the book confirmed that. Without figuring that out, I would have fallen into the trap of supplementing auditory instruction with visuals, which in her case does not work. Even though I had seen in real life that it would lead to frustration, it wasn't enough for it to click for me, and it was that further information and where it led that helped a lot. I realized that even if my dd has CAPD, she probably learns best by listening as long as there are no distractions. My dd never had any language, phonetic, or spelling problems, but things fall apart for her when there is noise and competing signals. That is true for academics but it's the day to day part of it that can affect her just as much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks so much everyone. Of course, giving her quiet one-on-one for dictation makes a lot of sense, not sure why I felt the need to ask. Just so unsure of myself right now! While I have you all here (I hope lol) can anyone share book or websites that they've found useful in raising/homeschooling a child with CAPD? I haven't found anything really stand outish. Have you seen this article on Auditory Processing? That has some tips that are very helpful for dictation. I started small and worked up (my dd could remember 4 words at a time when I started--realizing that also helped me to change how I gave verbal instructions both in and out of school time, btw). Over the years, that expanded to 10-14 words. She can still miss-hear things at times. Watch how you speak (not too fast, don't let the words run together so much--put a little separation in there as you do dictation or read aloud) and turn towards you so she can see your mouth--the sounds will be crisper that way. Do keep reading aloud--it's important to try to help this pathway improve, but you can include things like a recap, questions to help her track, related pictures to color, and so on. Since she's on AAS 2, it's possible that the words in the WWE dictation are too challenging right now, and that's part of the issue--many are above what she's studied so far. Here's another article on Improving Working Memory that you might find helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You wrote: "She has a very hard time holding the sentences in her head." But this 'holding sentences', uses something called; 'Sub-Vocalization', or Self-talk. You would be using Self-talk as you read this? Where you are probably hearing the words in your mind, without saying them out loud. If I asked you to read this sentence, and then recall it? You can probably recall it, using your Self-talk? Where you recall the sentence in your mind, without saying it out loud. But perhaps you might consider the situation, where you can't recall and hear the sentence in your mind? If you can't hear the sentence as you recall it? How could you recall it? So that what I wonder, is if your daughter hasn't developed the ability to use her Self-talk? Then when she tries to recall the dictation you gave her? That she can't recall and hear the dictation in her mind? But she would be unaware of this, as she wouldn't know that other people can recall and hear words in their mind. So perhaps you could talk about this with her, and ask her if she can imagine the sounds of words in her mind? Can she imagine and hear the words: 'Crows are very smart', in her mind. Without saying them out loud? Or does she wonder what you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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