Jump to content

Menu

algebra woes....please help me


Recommended Posts

Please tell me what to do.

 
Integers....4 operations.
 
My 9th grade daughter. Doesn't have learning issues....very smart girl...just has a math block in her m in. 
 
I have made her a cheat sheet with all of the rules.
 
In Pre-algebra she did FABULOUS.....nothing has changed...but now she can't seem to remember the rules, even with them in front of her...she is making mistake after mistake.  this is still chapter 1 and there is NO WAY she can take the chapter one test and pass.  I have pretty much exhausted all of the on line worksheets I can find...she works 5-6, I check them...and usually she misses at least 1-2 in each set.  She can usually find the mistake and fix it...but then in the next set, she misses 1-2 more.  This has been going on for nearly a week now...
 
she is getting frustrated.  I am getting frustrated.  I feel like we need to get moving...or we won't finish this book before next year.  It's not that she doesn't understand the steps...she just forgets to apply all of them....
 
I could take her back to pre-algebra...but then she feels like she is dumb....I know this because I copied a page from her pre-algebra book....just looking for more practice problems yesterday and that was her reaction.
 
UGH!!!!  What do I do????
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's noble to work towards perfection, but mistakes are part of learning. Right now, you say she getting between an 83% (5 out of 6 -- or a B) and 60% (2 out of 5 -- or a D) on her work, but she's able to fix her mistakes? If so, it doesn't seem hopeless and like she's in way over her head and needs to return to pre-algebra. I'd just keep at it, perhaps give her an extra review day before the chapter test with all the problems she missed from the chapter.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

problems are: remembering that when you have 3 to the 4th power...it's not 3 x 4 (but she will sometimes remember this...and sometimes not), or applying the "add the opposite rule" (again not all of the time), or remembering to bring down the -4 (instead she will copy +4)....or problems with things like -5 + 8.  (I have drawn number line after number line for her trying to get her to visualize this.)  Again, last year in pre-algebra she got this so well...in fact I was shocked (pleased and proud, but still shocked)...because Math is NOT her subject...

 

so this year...I am baffled by this issue.  The first chapter was supposed to be a review...sigh!!  I will check out "dragonbox"  thanks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What curriculum are you using?

I'm asking because Saxon has a prealgebra program that drills that stuff all year, but it's called 'Algebra 1/2' which she might find less insulting than 'going back to pre-algebra'.  It's Saxon, though.  Circular, spiralling Saxon.  That was the very best curriculum for my math-hating daughter, because without constant review of everything her math knowledge flowed out of her brain like water through a sieve, but it would have driven me nuts personally.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curriculum:  for pre-algebra we used College of the Redwoods.  We would have used this same program for Algebra except the program didn't come with any quizzes or tests and since my dd is in 9th grade, I felt like I needed to change so I would something to grade and record.  (I even asked on this board what I should do and I was advised to find a new program).  So I did...we switched to "A fresh Approach Algebra".  

 

we tried Saxon many years ago and that was a total bust.  My kids needed a mastery type program.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that my older dd did NOT master operations with positives and negatives at first exposure. We did go on, though still continuing to drill these problems. It did click eventually, just not at first. I'm okay with moving on while still working toward 100% accuracy through drills, warm-ups, quizzes, etc. I do expect 100% accuracy on basic operations with signed numbers eventually or you'll never be able to simplify and solve equations accurately.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I work the problems with DS.  I work one or two while he watches then I ask him to tell me what to do each step for the next few.  We do this over several days and often go back to repeat worksheets later as a refresher.  I have a  huge dry erase board that I usually use to work the problems.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

problems are: remembering that when you have 3 to the 4th power...it's not 3 x 4 (but she will sometimes remember this...and sometimes not), or applying the "add the opposite rule" (again not all of the time), or remembering to bring down the -4 (instead she will copy +4)....or problems with things like -5 + 8.  (I have drawn number line after number line for her trying to get her to visualize this.)

 

Force her to slow down and focus.

Have her write one equation per line, no run-on equations. Next equation underneath, equal signs aligned.

Use colored pencil for plus and minus signs.

Talk about math and have her explain the problem solutions to you.

 

I do not know what the "add the opposite" rule is. I am concerned about the "rule sheet". If she has to rely on a rule sheet, it means she has not conceptually understood what is going on. Go back and fix prealgebra with a program that does not just drill algorithms, but explains the conceptual "why", because that cannot be forgotten once understood.

 

I teach college, and any student who has troubles with math has them because prealgebra is not solid. Any time spent on remediation now will be worth it. Moving on means all subsequent math stands on a shaky foundation.

 

  • Like 19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, the mention of her having trouble remembering the rules made me think that maybe she doesn't understand why the "rules" exist - what the concept is that the rules capture.  Is she really verbal? Does she like having math explained in words? If so, you might take a look at the Arbor School math books - Jousting Armadillos, Crocodiles & Coconuts, and Chuckles the Rocket Dog.  The first one is focused on PreA topics like working with single-variable equations, but it does a fantastic job explaining the why behind the rules, particularly for integers.  It has really worked well for my super-verbal girl.  She doesn't always remember formulas, but she does have a good grasp of the "why" behind them so she can figure out how to solve the problems even if she has forgotten some particular formula. I think this is invaluable.  JA isn't for every kid, but seems to work well for a reader, a whole to parts big-picture thinker who can't remember things unless she understand why they are how they are, and where they fit in to the bigger picture.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The entire first booklet of the Key to Algebra books is integers and it reviews exactly what you're talking about. And those books are really good for struggling learners. They're often called not conceptual enough (and, indeed, the algebra program is perhaps not up to snuff for a full algebra I program) but they're really understanding concepts through repeated practice and through well chosen example problems. They're really good.

 

I might take it back to earlier materials about integers too. MEP had a nice visualization about a car on its number lines that I had not seen or thought of before. If the operation was negative, the car goes backwards, but if the operation was positive, the car goes forward. But there's also what direction the car is facing to start with (the house was forward, the tree was backward). There was a really nice set of explanations in Jousting Armadillos too - he had a nice visual with black and white dots.

 

Dragonbox is really great, though it doesn't really cover integers all that well. Ditto to Hands on Equations, though that's a little better maybe. But both could up her algebra confidence in general.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old is she?  Is she suffering from brain fog in other subjects, too? How about with chores and other things? (Maybe it's there, just more noticeable in math.) Given her (general) age and sex, I can't help but wonder if hormones could be playing a role.  If not, maybe you could take a break from this general topic and move on (it sounds like there really isn't a comprehension problem; more like a concentration one.)

 

In any event, :grouphug: .  This parenting/educating gig can be HARD sometimes!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love the ideas for lining up problems & using colored pencils for + & - signs.

 

My suggestion (and that's all it is) is to skip the Ch 1 test right now & move onto Chapter 2.

I'd definitely still have her fix all her mistakes as she goes along. I'd also build in five (5) review problems every day (picked from all her missed ones in the past - you'll have to go through & find them & copy them on a separate piece of paper each day). If she gets any of review problems wrong, she needs to explain OUT LOUD what she did wrong (once she figures it out) and talk through the problem as she re-solves it.

 

Once she stops getting the review problems consistently wrong (Chapter 2, Chapter 5, whenever), have her take the Chapter 1 test.

Having her talk through OUT LOUD what her thought process is will help YOU understand what she is thinking. Does she not understand conceptually? Is she just doing the teenage brain-fog thing? Is it just a different stupid mistake each time? Is there something causing her to see the problems wrong (eye tracking, visual issue)? 

 

Alternately, you can have her explain her thinking out loud as she works the five review problems right in front of you. The important thing is that she absolutely hasn't to verbalize her thoughts. (This is really hard for some people. However, sometimes you have to hear what you are saying with your outer ear to make your brain realize your mistake.) Don't shirk on the review problems. Every Day. If you run out of problems she's missed before, reuse the ones she got right the first time. :-)

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am good with the above suggestion...however, won't the following chapters assume she is strong with the concepts in chapter one and build on them???  How can she be weak on those concepts and continue on???

 

thanks to all of you who have given me suggestions and encouragement.  I so appreciate it.  This is a great group of people and I couldn't homeschool with you.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am good with the above suggestion...however, won't the following chapters assume she is strong with the concepts in chapter one and build on them???  How can she be weak on those concepts and continue on???

 

thanks to all of you who have given me suggestions and encouragement.  I so appreciate it.  This is a great group of people and I couldn't homeschool with you.

 

 

PLEASE read and study the suggestions regentdude gave you in her reply. She teaches Calculus based Physics. She knows why some of her students are lost with the Math. It goes back to Pre Algebra and/or Algebra 1... 

 

GL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds like she understands the concepts, but struggles with keeping track of everything. This is more an issue with working memory than comprehension.

 

A quick review might be useful, but complete reteaching is probably unnecessary. She also probably needs periodic, mixed review of concepts to build familiarity and speed.

 

With my daughter (doing prealgebra), I stress doing only one thing at a time and writing out each step. She complains about how much paper it takes (up to half a page for one problem!), but I point out that it takes less paper than having to redo the problem. She is also much faster when she writes out each step because she has to think of only one thing at a time.

 

I think a cheat sheet is fine as a reference at first, as long as it isn't a list of procedures but more of a checklist of things to watch out for. She should wean herself off it as she builds familiarity.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it a conceptual problem or a memory problem? Would a week off help? Have you looked at math mammoth's topic books - she could do a few pre-algebra ones but they are not labelled that. They cover the concept and the algorithm slowly and thoroughly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been a while since I took algebra, but I don't think that the Key to books would be equivalent to a full algebra course. What they do is take the scary out. The first book on integer operations is really, really good for building confidence and for understanding what is happening when you work with negative and positive integers.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so would you recommend that I buy just the first book...and then go back to our regular algebra book...or what???  My dd is in 9th grade...so I don't want to put her any further behind in math...but math is not her strong suit...so I can't see her going further than algebra 2 unless college would require that...so I guess, if we did algebra this year and next, geometry 11th grade, and alg 2 in 12th...but I don't know. 

 

What would you all do here???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I'd just concentrate on the problem at hand and not worry too far ahead. Grab books 1-4, because your answer key will be books 1-4 and see where you are after that. Book 1 is Operations on Integers, Book 2 is Variables, Terms and Expressions, Book 3 is Equations and Book 4 is Polynomials. Books 5-7 are fraction territory, with everything involving rational numbers. Books 8-9 go together, because those are about using graphs to solve systems of equations. Book 10  is square roots and quadratic equations.

You could have her cover book 1, then work back through that first chapter that was so tough. Then go ahead with your regular program and do a page or two of Key to along with the program if she needs it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so would you recommend that I buy just the first book...and then go back to our regular algebra book...or what???  My dd is in 9th grade...so I don't want to put her any further behind in math...but math is not her strong suit...so I can't see her going further than algebra 2 unless college would require that...so I guess, if we did algebra this year and next, geometry 11th grade, and alg 2 in 12th...but I don't know. 

 

What would you all do here???

 

It's going to be a lot better for her in college (even if she starts at a community college) to complete algebra 1 and geometry and actually be able to *do* it and understand what she's doing, than to work through without really understanding what she's doing, graduate high school, and then get put in algebra 1 in college anyway.

 

If she completes algebra 1 and geometry and understands what she is doing, she should need at most one remedial math class because she should place into intermediate algebra. If she completes algebra 2 as well and understands what she is doing, she should place into college-level math.

 

If she starts catching on after getting remediated in algebra and wants to move faster, she can take algebra 2 and geometry concurrently to get back on schedule, but the most important thing now is to figure out a way to remediate her so that she can understand algebra, not hurry to stay on track. Haste makes waste.

 

I *do* recommend working year-round. This will accomplish two things -- firstly, she will be able to get through more math in a year, and secondly, she will remember better because she will not have the summer to forget.

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son tries to do complex problems in his head. What helped him was to mandate he write out all steps, skipping none, and show all work. So 3^4 would be:

 

3^4 =

3x3x3x3=

9x9=

81

 

 

Just so PEMDAS (order of operations rules), become:

(4^2 + (24 / 3 + 3^2)) =

(4^2 + (24 / 3 + 3 x 3)) =

(4^2 + (24 / 3 + 9)) =

(4^2 + (8 + 9)) =

(4^2 + 17) =

4x4+17=

16 + 17 =

33

 

Tedious? Yes! But it makes problem solving the same as following a cooking recepie. Eventually it becomes habit and the pace really picks up. At least it did for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so would you recommend that I buy just the first book...and then go back to our regular algebra book...or what??? My dd is in 9th grade...so I don't want to put her any further behind in math...but math is not her strong suit...so I can't see her going further than algebra 2 unless college would require that...so I guess, if we did algebra this year and next, geometry 11th grade, and alg 2 in 12th...but I don't know.

 

What would you all do here???

The first book is VERY gentle, starting with showing all the ways multiplication can be represented. Positive and negative integers are covered, and order of operations is covered gently.

Book 2 actually has a quick review of book 1 (as they all do in the subsequent book) so if you think she has the above topics covered you could start there. It sounds as though she needs review and confidence building, with a focus on details rather than starting over completely:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...