Scholé and Charlotte Mason in the High School Years and Beyond

[Another Lynn]

lewelma, so glad you posted your perspective as you've gone through American hoop jumping.  It's comforting to know I'm not crazy when I feel pulled this way and that.  I'm sure any admissions officer would be super impressed by your ds!!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

WMA, it is so interesting to see what I wrote a couple of years ago!  

 

 

I agree! 

 

A couple questions and a different perspective...

 

 

We are really struggling over here this year with a calm environment designed for learning.  DS has made an about face in March, and decided that he would apply to American universities as an American citizen, this entailed meeting all the requirements in a very condensed period.  Our peaceful, learning environment has required a switch to a strong testing element (SAT, SAT essay, SAT subject tests, university applications) that we never expected to have to do and were not prepared for.  This in addition to Government, economics, biology, and mandarin 4, which were not required for NZ but are now required for America. In addition, our somewhat unschooling approach has created a massive headache for me when preparing the school/counselor materials.  I've never kept particularly amazing records or really thought too hard about american-style classes as ds had already achieved NZ university entrance through his exam marks. This has led to some serious soul searching as to what constitutes a class, what is 'honors', what is an external requirement by national exams vs what he has done because he wanted to.  I have really struggled to create structure to a somewhat amorphous learning experience.  In the end, we both feel good about what he has accomplished, but the last 5 months have been about hoop jumping, not learning, and it has not been pleasant.  I am really glad that I did not spend 4 years doing this!  We will see soon if he is able to get in to where he wants.  And he is aiming at the top, so he may have overshot what is possible. 

 

I understand your situation is unique in many ways, but some of what you written still perplexes me. 

 

In blue...

In the second blue section you say, "the last 5 months have been about hoop jumping, not learning, and it has not been pleasant."  If I'm understanding correctly, he earned credits in government, economics, biology and Mandarin 4. Those are pretty important subjects, even for a specialist. Having a credit's worth of knowledge in each of those subjects -- government, economics, biology, and an important world language -- seems relevant for life. It's hard to believe no learning took place if he studied those long enough to get credit. (Or if he already knew all the information, the credit would be painless, wouldn't it?)

 

In red...

If you had known in advance that applying in the US was a strong possibility,  the record keeping would have been a bit easier than doing it under a tight timeline, right? I'm wondering if doing everything under such pressure was what made it particularly unpleasant.

 

Which leads me to some thoughts on hoop jumping...

 

 

What I am finding is that looking at my next boy and wondering if he wants to follow his brother to America has caused me to think about testing, classes, structure, and hoop jumping. And I am not much liking where my planning is leading me.  I don't want my younger boy to spend all of high school hoop jumping just because of the disaster that his older bother encountered by making the decision in March of his Junior year. Seems unfair, but yet my mind can't help going in the direction of more organization, more box ticking, etc.  sigh.  It is never easy. Not when you don't know or when you do know.  I think there is just too much pressure on a homeschool mom.

 

I am not a fan of hoop jumping. I recently had a mini meltdown on another thread regarding hoop jumping. There are times I want to toss the hoops into the great beyond or crush them into tiny bits...

 

Regardless, we started jumping quite some time ago and have been jumping and jumping ever since. There have been moments of absolute frustration, but the end result of starting so early is that now we are in a really good position with lots of flexibility, leeway, and options. Payoff. 

 

I also decided to keep track of how often we were actually jumping hoops. For example, when I feel like there is always a standardized test looming, I count the tests and subtract it from the days in the year. There really aren't that many days spent testing. Test prep? Well, just basic test prep doesn't take long if you start early.  A little here and a little there goes a long way. Learning the material takes time, of course, but that's what education is, isn't it? If I felt a school was asking for something unreasonable or for proof of credit in subjects that were totally worthless, I'd probably mark the school off the list. 

 

Most professions and trades require ongoing training, certifications, licensing, continuing education, etc. etc. etc. Hoops. Learning to play the game and jump the right hoops is, unfortunately, a life skill worth learning.

 

As much as I hate hoop jumping, it's worthwhile to keep it in perspective. 

 

As always, though, much boils down to personality. Deciding what path to take with your younger son won't be easy. Good luck as you navigate the waters! And congrats on seeing things through with your eldest! You have much to be proud of.   :cheers2:

Edited October 27, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I keep a commonplace book-- for me. Whatever strikes my fancy goes in.  It's just an old notebook, nothing fancy.

 

My oldest kept one last year as he worked through some lit from ancients and medieval times ;I didn't  dare call it a commonplace book, it was his reading log. ;)   I told him to write down 2 or 3 things each week that caught his fancy, such as a good description, nice phrasing, or even just something that sounded good to his ears.

 

He put a lot of Homer in that book.

 

I resisted the urge to turn it into literary analysis.  :)    I think that would have killed it for him.

 

Sadly, he is not keeping one this year; but he is willing to talk about his lit more, so I think the commonplace book last year helped him be more aware of the *art* of writing.

 

 

My Dd started a commonplace book in7th grade. She has filled several. It is totally free-reign, never assigned. She loves a couple of her books so much that a few weeks ago she contacted me and asked if I could send one specific one to her at school. Hers are works of art with calligraphy and drawings and annotated with her thoughts.

 

Thanks! After reading these posts, it occurred to me that my teen has been keeping a commonplace book -- it's just not in a book. It's a more scattered approach.  ;)   If all the writings and drawings were in a bound book, I wouldn't be wondering if a commonplace book is something we should be doing. Interesting!  Another example of how easy it is to miss the forest for the trees.

 

I'm trying to pin down my visions of scholé and CM in high school in an effort to make concrete goals and plans. The idea of rest is so alluring, but implementation takes effort. The commonplace book realization has reminded me to look at what we're already doing to see if I'm just calling a rose by some other name...  Which raises the question -- Does a rose by any other name smell as sweet?  A commonplace book sounds more worthy than a mass of papers and computer files. Nature study sounds more lofty than digging in the mud.  ;)

 

Charlotte Mason's schools had exams, but we don't often see that listed as a hallmark of CM education.  ;)

 

Instead of looking wistfully at what things would be like if we could just do what we wanted instead of jumping hoops, perhaps I should be looking for common ground. I might be a good deal closer than I realize. I might be missing opportunities for tweaking things just a bit to make them closer to my ideal because I'm too busy lamenting what might have been. 

 

Onward with eyes open. 

 

Anyone else have updates?

[8filltheheart]

Thanks! After reading these posts, it occurred to me that my teen has been keeping a commonplace book -- it's just not in a book. It's a more scattered approach. ;) If all the writings and drawings were in a bound book, I wouldn't be wondering if a commonplace book is something we should be doing. Interesting! Another example of how easy it is to miss the forest for the trees.

 

I'm trying to pin down my visions of scholé and CM in high school in an effort to make concrete goals and plans. The idea of rest is so alluring, but implementation takes effort. The commonplace book realization has reminded me to look at what we're already doing to see if I'm just calling a rose by some other name... Which raises the question -- Does a rose by any other name smell as sweet? A commonplace book sounds more worthy than a mass of papers and computer files. Nature study sounds more lofty than digging in the mud. ;)

 

Charlotte Mason's schools had exams, but we don't often see that listed as a hallmark of CM education. ;)

 

Instead of looking wistfully at what things would be like if we could just do what we wanted instead of jumping hoops, perhaps I should be looking for common ground. I might be a good deal closer than I realize. I might be missing opportunities for tweaking things just a bit to make them closer to my ideal because I'm too busy lamenting what might have been.

 

Onward with eyes open.

 

Anyone else have updates?

For our homeschool, the bolded points are the key to the everything we do. It is possible to meet required criteria through a backdoor approach. Fairy tales can be used for a literature course. Philosophy of religion and science as a humanities. Communism in the 20th century can be history.

 

Subjects can be studied in a way that appeals to their curiosity and desire to learn more. Establishing criteria for mastery is equally a good. Expecting it is not to their detriment. Nor is instilling the understanding that learning to mastery can be very hard work. Knowing that subjects outside their areas of interest are necessary for a well-rounded education is equally important is also not contrary to pursuing the good and the beautiful.

 

The sunshine and roses fluffy view that many of the Schole blog posts convey miss the fact that behind a beautiful rose garden there is sweat and labor in planting them, pruning them, and preventing bugs and disease. That beautiful garden also requires additional research in understanding soil, moisture, sunlight, and temperature conditions. Those "hoops" are what lead to the visible result. We may want the garden, but without the appropriate knowledge and effort, we may end up with nothing more than dead sticks with thorns.

 

From my perspective, the key is not getting caught up in the idea that learning has to happen according to a modern classroom definition. The outcome is the goal and there are many paths to that destination.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

As I've said in other scholé threads:  The missing piece about peace is the hard work. There doesn't seem to be much point in putting a ribbon on chaos or a bow on disorder. 

 

It's something to ponder...what is a hoop? Is it just something that to us doesn't feel relevant or worthwhile? Forget love...hoops are in the eyes of the beholder.  ;)

 

Some say hoop, I say ticket.  ;)  (These hoops are tickets my teen needs in order to get where she wants to go. I try to focus less on how I feel about them and more on what benefits they offer. If they don't offer any benefits --why bother? Clearly there is some reason that makes them worth doing -- some end result. Better to focus on that than how frustrating and meaningless they seem.)

Edited October 30, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[regentrude]

It's something to ponder...what is a hoop? Is it just something that to us doesn't feel relevant or worthwhile? Forget love...hoops are in the eyes of the beholder.  ;)

 

Some say hoop, I say ticket.  Or passport!   ;)

 

What is a hoop?

To me, a hoop in education is an action the students are required to take that does not further, or even hinders, their learning.

 

The hoops we encountered were mainly in the form of standardized tests. They do not contribute to understanding, take away valuable time, cause unnecesssary stress and pressure.

Other hoops, while the kids were still in ps, consisted of meaningless busywork to create output so somebody had papers to file.

 

Requiring a rigorous education covering the main subject areas is not, IMO, a hoop.

 

Aside from the standardized testing I did not feel that fulfilling the expectations US colleges have for their applicants too much of a restriction of  our schooling; we still had a fairly relaxed time (except for the application semester), and quite a bit of freedom.

Edited October 27, 2017 by regentrude

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I also feel like we have lots of freedom.

[8filltheheart]

What is a hoop?

To me, a hoop in education is an action the students are required to take that does not further, or even hinders, their learning.

 

The hoops we encountered were mainly in the form of standardized tests. They do not contribute to understanding, take away valuable time, cause unnecesssary stress and pressure.

Other hoops, while the kids were still in ps, consisted of meaningless busywork to create output so somebody had papers to file.

 

Requiring a rigorous education covering the main subject areas is not, IMO, a hoop.

 

Aside from the standardized testing I did not feel that fulfilling the expectations US colleges have for their applicants too much of a restriction of our schooling; we still had a fairly relaxed time (except for the application semester), and quite a bit of freedom.

Agree. That is my perspective as well. Standardized testing for me is the hoop that drives me crazy. Off the top of my head, I can't think anything else that we do that I wouldn't want to do regardless of any outside expectations.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I have mixed feelings about testing. I'm sure this varies depending on the student's relationship with tests. Depending on the student, tests are a significant stressor,  a nuisance, or an adrenaline rush.

 

(Ask me again the last two weeks of April and the first two weeks of May. I always think tests are absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for during those weeks. ;) )

[Another Lynn]

I'm still new at highschool stuff (oldest finished highschool at a private school), and I know some would disagree with me, but I'm beginning to think that the issue of how much time a study (or a credit) is supposed to take is an issue.  Or maybe what I consider credit-worthy just doesn't match the rest of the world.  

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Do you mean calculating how much time needs to be spent to constitute a credit or that so much time is needed for studying in general. Just want to make sure I understand.

[8filltheheart]

I'm still new at highschool stuff (oldest finished highschool at a private school), and I know some would disagree with me, but I'm beginning to think that the issue of how much time a study (or a credit) is supposed to take is an issue.  Or maybe what I consider credit-worthy just doesn't match the rest of the world.  

 

I wonder if your perception is based on the B&M approach to education.  I have witnessed some crazy amts of busy work amg my kids' friends.  Staying up until 1 am to complete an incredibly lame project was not unusual.

 

In terms of how much time my kids spend completing what I consider credit worthy, I think it is appropriate.  When they have gone to college, they have all thanked me for being well-prepared for their college workloads. 

[Another Lynn]

Well, I've always favored plans that were heavier on input and lighter on output.  But I think I mean that for subjects we intend to hit more lightly (say, my 9th grader's biology credit) where my goal is exposure, not the ability to recite a bunch of terms and processes from memory, I don't think we need a full hour per day.  

[Corraleno]

The only hoop DS jumped through was taking the ACT. No APs, no SAT2s, no government or econ credits (he's interested in both areas, has watched GC lectures and read things on his own, but no courses, no "output"). For the most part, he studied what he wanted to study, when he wanted to study it, and I assembled what he did into "courses" retroactively and stuck them into whatever grade level seemed most appropriate — sometimes that was the year he began studying that topic, sometimes it was when he finished, and sometimes it was the year he did the bulk of the work or the most significant work (essays or whatever).

 

My goal was to have a transcript looked fairly "normal" in terms of format, to make it easy for AdComs to read, but with coursework that would fully reflect who DS is and what his interests are. So, while he had the requisite 4x4 in the core subjects, many of them were specific to his interests. For example, his English credits included Epic & Saga in World Literature, Greek Literature, and Roman Literature. Everything else he did that counted as "English" got tossed into a generic English Literature & Composition credit that I put in 9th grade. History included 20th C. World, American, Ancient Greek, and Western Civ (DE). His science credits were Astronomy (Filippenko's GC course), Chem (co-op), Bio with A&P (co-op A&P class plus add'l bio at home), and Human Origins (DE).

 

He also had 11 credits in foreign language (Latin, Greek, Turkish, Old Norse), and electives that included World Languages (incorporated a coursera course on Endangered Languages as well as a lot of self-directed reading), Linguistics, History of English, Cognitive Science, Classical Art & Architecture, and World Music, all of which were essentially pieced together from various things he did over the course of 4 years of high school.

[Corraleno]

Well, I've always favored plans that were heavier on input and lighter on output.  But I think I mean that for subjects we intend to hit more lightly (say, my 9th grader's biology credit) where my goal is exposure, not the ability to recite a bunch of terms and processes from memory, I don't think we need a full hour per day.

 

A "Carnegie Unit" (120 hrs = 1 HS credit) is only 45 mins/day, 5 days/wk x 32 weeks.

 

It could also be:

90 mins/day, 5 days/wk x 16 weeks

90 mins/day, 2 days/wk x 40 weeks

2 hrs/day, 7 days/wk x 2 months (60 days)

 

I never counted hours with DS, since for us "lighter" generally meant less output, not fewer hours. But it's really not hard to accumulate 120 hours (or 60 for a half-credit) if you include the time spent reading, researching, discussing, etc.

 

If anything, I think the only courses that were a bit light on actual hours were his two DE courses. They were intensive 8 week, 3 credit courses and I don't think he spent 15 hrs/wk on either of them. He didn't do all the reading for the Western Civ course (still got an A) but he's also dyslexic and a very slow reader. On the other hand, he spent 8-10 hrs/wk or more on all of his Lukeion courses (so 250-320 total per year), and probably spent 300-400 hours on Greek history over the course of several years (still only got 1 "credit" for it).

[Another Lynn]

The only hoop DS jumped through was taking the ACT. No APs, no SAT2s, no government or econ credits (he's interested in both areas, has watched GC lectures and read things on his own, but no courses, no "output"). For the most part, he studied what he wanted to study, when he wanted to study it, and I assembled what he did into "courses" retroactively and stuck them into whatever grade level seemed most appropriate — sometimes that was the year he began studying that topic, sometimes it was when he finished, and sometimes it was the year he did the bulk of the work or the most significant work (essays or whatever).

 

My goal was to have a transcript looked fairly "normal" in terms of format, to make it easy for AdComs to read, but with coursework that would fully reflect who DS is and what his interests are. So, while he had the requisite 4x4 in the core subjects, many of them were specific to his interests. For example, his English credits included Epic & Saga in World Literature, Greek Literature, and Roman Literature. Everything else he did that counted as "English" got tossed into a generic English Literature & Composition credit that I put in 9th grade. History included 20th C. World, American, Ancient Greek, and Western Civ (DE). His science credits were Astronomy (Filippenko's GC course), Chem (co-op), Bio with A&P (co-op A&P class plus add'l bio at home), and Human Origins (DE).

 

He also had 11 credits in foreign language (Latin, Greek, Turkish, Old Norse), and electives that included World Languages (incorporated a coursera course on Endangered Languages as well as a lot of self-directed reading), Linguistics, History of English, Cognitive Science, Classical Art & Architecture, and World Music, all of which were essentially pieced together from various things he did over the course of 4 years of high school.

 

See, and part of me mourns that you didn't give him credit for this (the bolded).  

[Another Lynn]

 

A "Carnegie Unit" (120 hrs = 1 HS credit) is only 45 mins/day, 5 days/wk x 32 weeks.

 

It could also be:

90 mins/day, 5 days/wk x 16 weeks

90 mins/day, 2 days/wk x 40 weeks

2 hrs/day, 7 days/wk x 2 months (60 days)

 

I never counted hours with DS, since for us "lighter" generally meant less output, not fewer hours. But it's really not hard to accumulate 120 hours (or 60 for a half-credit) if you include the time spent reading, researching, discussing, etc.

 

If anything, I think the only courses that were a bit light on actual hours were his two DE courses. They were intensive 8 week, 3 credit courses and I don't think he spent 15 hrs/wk on either of them. He didn't do all the reading for the Western Civ course (still got an A) but he's also dyslexic and a very slow reader. On the other hand, he spent 8-10 hrs/wk or more on all of his Lukeion courses (so 250-320 total per year), and probably spent 300-400 hours on Greek history over the course of several years (still only got 1 "credit" for it).

 

Thanks!  It's helpful for me to remember that there is a range of time for a credit and it doesn't have to be 180+.  

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Counting credits is such a weird system.  I'm not sure what they're meant to measure, and I know they are necessary evils, but they seem so arbitrary -- even if you go by hours.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Another Lynn]

Counting credits is such a weird system.  I'm not sure what they're meant to measure, and I know they are necessary evils, but they seem so arbitrary -- even if you go by hours.

 

I'm outta likes.  Yes, thanks.  

 

And then writing the course description feels difficult if I don't have a lot to say about what we did, although in my opinion it was totally adequate.  

[Corraleno]

See, and part of me mourns that you didn't give him credit for this (the bolded).

 

But he didn't need those credits — he already had 30 credits in subjects he studied in far more depth and detail, most of which were more closely aligned with his interests. I could have also given him 4 PE credits for his sport and a health credit for first aid, CPR, and the test he had to pass to get his coaching license, but none of those help AdComs see him as a person.

 

Everything I've read about selective admissions says that a student's application needs to "tell a story." Adding in miscellaneous half-credits he didn't need and weren't related to his interests adds nothing to his story. I could probably have added another 10 half-credits if I wanted to count every interest in which he invested 60 hrs or more — heck, I could have added another 10 half-credits in just linguistics topics. But rather than pad the transcript with tons of extra credits, I felt like it was more effective to use the Counselor Letter to talk about all the things he studied on his own, for fun rather than "credit." IMO that's a more valuable asset, and something that will make his application stand out more, compared to just looking like he was forced to plow through 10 courses per year for 4 years.

 

To me, the whole concept of "credits" (for homeschoolers) is meaningless outside the context of a college application. The fact that something isn't on his transcript as a credit doesn't mean it was wasted time — DS is, and will always be, an auto-didact who sees learning as something that should be done for it's own sake, not so that some outside organization will give you "credit" for it.  

[Another Lynn]

But he didn't need those credits — he already had 30 credits in subjects he studied in far more depth and detail, most of which were more closely aligned with his interests. I could have also given him 4 PE credits for his sport and a health credit for first aid, CPR, and the test he had to pass to get his coaching license, but none of those help AdComs see him as a person.

 

Everything I've read about selective admissions says that a student's application needs to "tell a story." Adding in miscellaneous half-credits he didn't need and weren't related to his interests adds nothing to his story. I could probably have added another 10 half-credits if I wanted to count every interest in which he invested 60 hrs or more — heck, I could have added another 10 half-credits in just linguistics topics. But rather than pad the transcript with tons of extra credits, I felt like it was more effective to use the Counselor Letter to talk about all the things he studied on his own, for fun rather than "credit." IMO that's a more valuable asset, and something that will make his application stand out more, compared to just looking like he was forced to plow through 10 courses per year for 4 years.

 

To me, the whole concept of "credits" (for homeschoolers) is meaningless outside the context of a college application. The fact that something isn't on his transcript as a credit doesn't mean it was wasted time — DS is, and will always be, an auto-didact who sees learning as something that should be done for it's own sake, not so that some outside organization will give you "credit" for it.  

 

That makes a lot of sense.  And your last paragraph - so true.  Kudos to you and your ds!  

[Corraleno]

Counting credits is such a weird system.  I'm not sure what they're meant to measure, and I know they are necessary evils, but they seem so arbitrary -- even if you go by hours.

 

And if you look at the difference between what counts as an "English credit" at a really top private school and a really crap PS, it's not even comparing apples and oranges, it's more like apples and orangutans. I have several nieces and nephews who went through a really lousy PS system — not bad in the sense of inner city/drugs & violence/no discipline, just bad in the sense of incredibly stupid teachers and very low standards.

 

In 9th grade, my niece asked me to help her with a Flat Stanley project (something that's normally done in 4th or 5th grade, but OK). The kids used MS Word to draw & color a Flat Stanley figure (there's an important life skill!) and the assignment was to send it to someone in another state and have them take it around to various businesses; take photos of Stanley at the business; collect copies of flyers, brochures, and menus from the businesses; and then the student was to put together a Powerpoint presentation about the businesses. When I asked for clarification about the goal of the project, niece had no clue. I had assumed it was for some kind of business class, or Intro to Technology or something — nope, this was for Honors English 9.   :eek:

 

I took photos of Stanley at lots of unusual businesses and wrote a few sentences about each business and how they use technology, which is why none of them had "brochures," with links and screenshots of all the websites. She cut and pasted the photos and the text of my email into Powerpoint slides — and got an A+ on the assignment, with extra praise from the teacher for the fact that it was "head and shoulders" above every other student's presentation. She never read a single novel or wrote a single essay in that class, and she got an A. With extra weight since it was "Honors." :001_huh:   

 

For DS's Greek Literature credit, he read 2 epics, 10 plays, assorted poetry, and lots of critical analysis. He watched 108 Great Courses lectures, participated in HarvardX's 24-week Ancient Greek Hero course, engaged in many hours of serious discussion, and wrote a bunch of essays. And yet both of those courses, on paper, equal "1 high school English credit."

 

It's nuts.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Corraleno

[regentrude]

See, and part of me mourns that you didn't give him credit for this (the bolded).

Not everything a person learns must appear as a credit on a transcript. I don't see how this is anything to mourn.

My kids learned a lot more than their transcripts reflect. I am raising life long learners for whom learning is its own reward.

[Another Lynn]

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I'm bemoaning what a transcript is and what it is not.  

[8filltheheart]

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I'm bemoaning what a transcript is and what it is not.

My kids' transcripts are more a celebration of who they are. If you put my kids' transcripts side by side, younwouldnt think they had "attended the same school." ;)

 

My ds's transcript was dominated by science, math, philosophy, and literature courses that totally meshed with his personality. (Chesterton, for example, dominated one of his literature courses.)

 

My dd's transcript was dominated by foreign language, culture, and totally atypical literature courses. I doubt many high schoolers have entire literature courses focused on fairy tales or the legends of King Arthur or epic poetry. History was not you typical list of high school history courses. She studied French history, Russian history, communism in the 20th century, etc.

 

Yes, we have some subjects that are more along the lines of traditional school/get 'er done type courses. But what those are are different for each child. For my ds mentioned above, it would be history. For my Dd just described it would be science. Ds graduated with something like 11 science credits. Dd squeaked in her 4, but she had advanced credits for 3 languages.

 

High school can be a time for them to really explore areas of interests and have fun with designing courses that help them master what they want to learn. My kids work with me to design their high school credits. The help me select the resources and set goals. They are the owners of what they study and how they study it. Homeschooling opens up the door to so much freedom to study more than B&M a,b,c.

 

No lamenting here. The courses that they study bc they have to bc I say so vs out of pure interest.....those are the courses that make them more well-rounded, educated adults. My oldest Dd loved biology. My next 3 have detested it. Doesn't change that it is information that will be with them throughout their lives and that they will be able to draw on it as they read and evaluate news, medical info, etc.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I understand where you're coming from, but there is so much more to a person than what the space of a two dimensional transcript can hold, especially when we take into consideration how little time is spent judging the admissions packet as a whole. So although I'm confident my teen's transcript will reflect her interests and academic strengths, those are only part of who she is as a person.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I understand where you're coming from, but there is so much more to a person than what the space of a two dimensional transcript can hold, especially when we take into consideration how little time is spent judging the admissions packet as a whole. So although I'm confident my teen's transcript will reflect her interests and academic strengths, those are only part of who she is as a person.

 

Which leads us full circle back to Charlotte Mason's first principle. Children are born persons.

[regentrude]

My kids' transcripts are more a celebration of who they are. If you put my kids' transcripts side by side, you wouldnt think they had "attended the same school." 

 

I see transcripts as more limited and tailored to a certain purpose.

My kids' transcripts describe the academic side of who they are, but nowhere near capture who they are. Both have strong interests that did not find their way into the transcript. My DS is a dedicated athlete, and his athletic pursuits are as important for his personal development as his academic work; for a period he was seriously considering a professional athletic career. My DD is a gifted cook and baker, blog writer, and excellent teacher. 

 

To me, the transcript solely describes their academic preparation for college. Which, of course, is tailored to the student and mirrors the student's interests to some degree. But I do not intend it to come even close to 8FillTheHeart's goal. There is so much more to celebrate, and so much that does not fit, or belong, on an academic transcript.

 

I see transcripts a bit like a CV that I would submit with a job application. The CV would capture my professional development and job related skills. But  I am not defined by being a physics professor; that I am a mother, homeschooler, outdoor enthusiast and poet are equally important, yet irrelevant for this particular document.

Edited October 28, 2017 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

I see transcripts as more limited and tailored to a certain purpose.

My kids' transcripts describe the academic side of who they are, but nowhere near capture who they are. Both have strong interests that did not find their way into the transcript. My DS is a dedicated athlete, and his athletic pursuits are as important for his personal development as his academic work; for a period he was seriously considering a professional athletic career. My DD is a gifted cook and baker, blog writer, and excellent teacher.

 

To me, the transcript solely describes their academic preparation for college. Which, of course, is tailored to the student and mirrors the student's interests to some degree. But I do not intend it to come even close to 8FillTheHeart's goal. There is so much more to celebrate, and so much that does not fit, or belong, on an academic transcript.

 

I see transcripts a bit like a CV that I would submit with a job application. The CV would capture my professional development and job related skills. But I am not defined by being a physics professor; that I am a mother, homeschooler, outdoor enthusiast and poet are equally important, yet irrelevant for this particular document.

Huh? You are reading way too much into it. It is a celebration of who they are as students. Obviously there is so much more to who they are as individuals. I take that as a given. But their yrs as high school students are not lock step with some predetermined path created by bureaucrats. They select and create the classes they take, so the courses are reflection of who they are as students.

[lewelma]

In blue...

In the second blue section you say, "the last 5 months have been about hoop jumping, not learning, and it has not been pleasant."  If I'm understanding correctly, he earned credits in government, economics, biology and Mandarin 4. Those are pretty important subjects, even for a specialist. Having a credit's worth of knowledge in each of those subjects -- government, economics, biology, and an important world language -- seems relevant for life. It's hard to believe no learning took place if he studied those long enough to get credit. (Or if he already knew all the information, the credit would be painless, wouldn't it?)

 

In red...

If you had known in advance that applying in the US was a strong possibility,  the record keeping would have been a bit easier than doing it under a tight timeline, right? I'm wondering if doing everything under such pressure was what made it particularly unpleasant.

 

WMA, so long since we have chatted. I clearly muddled up my description.  Government, Econ, Biology, Mandarin 4 are all requirements that he is set to do next term, that was not the hoop jumping.  However, even those credits are needing to be completed in a collapsed time frame because he has final exams in November for the courses he started in February.  I had to make a choice on time shifting his transcript, which is making for a muddle.  He couldn't apply 6 months after graduation or he couldn't attend the IMO, and he couldn't apply 6 months before graduation because he actually already had his NZ high school diploma.  So I shifted his transcript by 6 months, which means that some of his year long classes finish in November and he has final exams in 2 weeks, but then he has to do his senior classes in a collapsed period of time as he has all his summer activities in December and January.  So it is just like rush rush rush, even for the stuff he wants to learn. This is because of the need to put his learning into "courses," learning that he would be happy to do, but just not in a rushed sense. I just could not find any other way to handle it.  

 

The hoop jumping was the SAT.  He had 1 month to practice taking the SAT as he had never done a reading comprehension test, did not know the grammar/writing rules in the way they were tested (in fact NZ does some stuff differently so he had to learn the american way), and then to pull off the essay.  This child had never written an essay under time pressure in his life, and had never done this kind of analysis.  So a month was barely enough time given that as he said " I just don't have the same stamina for writing as I do for maths."  And I would say I was over the moon with a 19 on the essay. And in NZ the only other time he could retake it was in November right in the middle of final exams for NZ, so he felt that he had to get it right on the first shot (thankfully, he did), but that added to the pressure he was putting himself under.  Then it was prepping for the SAT2 physics and math. Physics he had not taken in 2 years, so had to go back and relearn everything in 3.5 weeks, and math was just horrible for him because he just doesn't do math at that low a level and it felt like a waste of time. We were working with the Barron's book which we were to find out later was not timed right.  So he thought that basically the test was impossible to get a perfect mark on in the time allotted, because if he couldn't do it then who could?  This led to so much frustration and anger at the process.  Finally, someone here told us that the Barron's test were way to long, so try the real one, and he did and it was short and easy.  So then he quit studying.  But it was just a horrible 2 months.  Especially, because he was trying to prep for the IMO at the same time.  Then he had to come back and deal with all his NZ classes that had been running all this time that he was studying for American tests and gone for the IMO and college tour.  And when he came back, it was all about the essays for the college applications.  7 schools is a lot of essay for a kid who certainly does not like writing essays about himself. Now it is final exam time, and all the courses are just rush rush rush.  

 

Basically, all of the hurry this year has been about applying to American universities, and it has been somewhat of a nightmare for both him and me.  Not only was it a last minute job, needing to be done at a high level since he is applying to elites, but there has also been the hemisphere calendar differences, which are a big fat mess.

 

All this boy wants to do is read his economist, do his math study, play his violin, and write some english papers because he knows he should.  He is exhausted.  And there has been no Schole over here since April.

Edited October 28, 2017 by lewelma

[lewelma]

As much as I hate hoop jumping, it's worthwhile to keep it in perspective.

 

I agree.  The way I got my ds through this period was to focus on the positive aspects of hoop jumping.  So for example "ds, you really love physics. Yes you have to relearn it, but don't you want to know it well. Won't restudying the basics really solidify your knowledge?  It actually is kind of a good use of your time."  So same with the SAT, "isn't it good to finally have to know all the punctuation rules.  This test has forced you to just get the job done.  Learning how to anayzed passages will help your own writing, won't it?"  I really tried hard to push the positives, because kids (or anyone really) are more motivated when it seems like a worthwhile endeavor. 

 

As for my younger boy.  I'm not so sure how to handle it because he may not want to go to America for university, or he may want to follow his brother when he hears all the stories.  However, the SAT will be a major major problem, and he will need accommodations.  He is 2e with dysgraphia.  So I'm trying to decide if we start prepping now, so for 3 years.  That just seems wrong, really.  Obviously, I'm covering the material that would be on the test, but yet, I'm not.  Reading comprehension questions under time pressure?  I'm not covering that as just a normal thing in our homeschool.  Editing, yes, but editing someone else's writing with strict questions under time pressure?  no. So I'm just not sure.  The NZ system just works differently.  And as a homeschooler, we are kind of out of the system and yet still have to be in it. So it makes it hard to shine in either country without a bit of foresight and planning.  But which country do I plan for?  

Edited October 28, 2017 by lewelma

[Woodland Mist Academy]

So it makes it hard to shine in either country without a bit of foresight and planning.  But which country do I plan for?  

 

Yes, foresight and planning are key. Reading through your description about those stressful months, it seems the SAT was only a small part of what was going on, albeit a critical part for sure. The good news is that whichever country you decide to give priority with planning for your youngest, right now you have the precious commodity of time. I'm sure you recognize it for the gift it is. 

 

Congrats again on making it through with your eldest. What a whirlwind!  

 

(ETA: I reread your posts and realized I missed a few things. I didn't realize he is still in the midst of finals. Hang in there!)

Edited October 29, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

All this boy wants to do is read his economist, do his math study, play his violin, and write some english papers because he knows he should.  He is exhausted.  And there has been no Schole over here since April.

 

And this raises a good question. How much is too much? At what point do we say  -- ENOUGH!   

 

Obviously this will vary from student to student, but it's a question that might be worth time answering well before you need to know the answer. Once the stress and pressure hits, sometimes there is no time to make a rational decision. 

 

One way our family says enough is to do fewer credits than many students. We do what feels right and sane for us. What allows time, space, and energy for other areas of life. Time for scholé.

 

In what ways do you say enough? Anyone care to share how you nurture scholé in the midst of the madness?

[lewelma]

To answer the question about enough: we said no to any university courses this year knowing that when he self studies he can do it on his own time and he doesn't have to travel to the uni three times a week. We also made his government class a tick the box class and his Econ class into something that he wanted to do - read piketty's Capital. No output required, just reading and discussing, which he loves. There is no 'homework' at our homeschool, so all school has to be done before dinner, and only reading after nine. Even during this crazy time, he still reads every night from 9-12. Some of it is counted as school work, but all of it he does just because he wants to and would do it regardless - like reading the Economist. We fought to give him ten days off in September, and we work very hard to have no school work on the weekends, but that is starting to slip a bit. He knows he has only one month left. The end is in sight. This is not a pace he could have handled for four years.

[lewelma]

I think the key is his no-screens night time reading. It is calming.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

To answer the question about enough: we said no to any university courses this year knowing that when he self studies he can do it on his own time and he doesn't have to travel to the uni three times a week. We also made his government class a tick the box class and his Econ class into something that he wanted to do - read piketty's Capital. No output required, just reading and discussing, which he loves. There is no 'homework' at our homeschool, so all school has to be done before dinner, and only reading after nine. Even during this crazy time, he still reads every night from 9-12. Some of it is counted as school work, but all of it he does just because he wants to and would do it regardless - like reading the Economist. We fought to give him ten days off in September, and we work very hard to have no school work on the weekends, but that is starting to slip a bit. He knows he has only one month left. The end is in sight. This is not a pace he could have handled for four years.

 

Three hours of reading every night that he does just because he wants to sure sounds like scholé to me!  ;)   What do you consider scholé? Perhaps it's not that there is no scholé during this time, it's just there's not enough scholé for him to feel centered, balanced, and whole.

 

Whichever it is... :grouphug:

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Charlotte Mason's recommendations for habit training might not sit well with today's teens. (Understatement.) 

 

A more modern look at habits can be found in Gretchen Rubin's Better than Before: Mastering the Habits of Our Everyday Lives. She examines various habit personalities and how we can encourage and support habit formation in those personalities, while acknowledging that ultimately the person has to want to change. 

 

Anyone else have any thoughts or resources related to habits?

[regentrude]

Charlotte Mason's recommendations for habit training might not sit well with today's teens. (Understatement.) 

 

A more modern look at habits can be found in Gretchen Rubin's Better than Before: Mastering the Habits of Our Everyday Lives. She examines various habit personalities and how we can encourage and support habit formation in those personalities, while acknowledging that ultimately the person has to want to change. 

 

Anyone else have any thoughts or resources related to habits?

 

No resources, but I have thoughts. I find habits very productive and found that both my kids did better with consistent routines and habits. It starts in early childhood with predictable routines. I also didn't see my teens having any resistance to developing habits - BUT, they got to figure out what habits work for them. These may not be the same habits that work for their parents. But both developed a set of habits that enable them to be successful in various areas of their lives.

 

Part of the adjustment during freshmen semester at college is precisely the developing of new routines and habits that work well under the changed external circumstances. I could observe this with both kids. DS is still in the process of figuring things out, and much happier now that he has an idea what might work for him.

 

I have actually found developing habits fairly easy, once that was a habit I wanted. You just do it for a while and then it becomes second nature. I am not sure it requires specific "training" to do that - how would that even look like?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

No resources, but I have thoughts. I find habits very productive and found that both my kids did better with consistent routines and habits. It starts in early childhood with predictable routines. I also didn't see my teens having any resistance to developing habits - BUT, they got to figure out what habits work for them. These may not be the same habits that work for their parents. But both developed a set of habits that enable them to be successful in various areas of their lives.

 

Part of the adjustment during freshmen semester at college is precisely the developing of new routines and habits that work well under the changed external circumstances. I could observe this with both kids. DS is still in the process of figuring things out, and much happier now that he has an idea what might work for him.

 

I have actually found developing habits fairly easy, once that was a habit I wanted. You just do it for a while and then it becomes second nature. I am not sure it requires specific "training" to do that - how would that even look like?

 

I would say that your second paragraph is a type of habit "training" --finding what works in a given situation. Training one's self to develop good habits in a new environment. Habit training probably means different things to different people. Actually your first paragraph of starting young children with predictable routines can be viewed as habit training too. It's just semantics, though. Habit development could be used instead. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts! Anyone else?

Edited November 8, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy