ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So, she's taking a dance combo class that is part ballet, and then the other part alternates between tap and tumbling. She was determined to learn to do a forward roll before the first class "to impress the teacher" and so she wouldn't be scared in class. We put ikea foam mattresses on my living room floor and 3 hours of sobbing and drama later, she could do it. The next morning she wanted to practice, but had forgotten how to do it!!!! More sobbing, more determination, and eventually she was doing it again, to the point of running up and doing them. Great. Went to class last night, after all that, and they have them do the roll down a ramp. We didn't do that at home, obviously, and she froze. Couldn't do it, and was terrified of falling off the stupid wedge thing. More tears. We tried building a ramp at home with couch cushions but she's scared, and can't do the forward roll down the "ramp", partly/mostly because she's scared so not pushing over hard enough. Now, this morning, she was just going to do them flat on the mattress for a bit, and can't remember/can't do it. Again. More tears. I'm just ignoring it, after explaining that it's great she wants to try, but she can't keep crying all day while doing it. So, first, is it normal to forget over and over???? Second, how do I encourage the perserverance but get her past the crying? I tell you, my Aspie boy would have just punched things, and I think I'm better equipped for that than the tears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oh, poor thing. I think it's probably more panic than forgetting. Tell her to wait and try it in class instead of trying to work ahead. She's working herself up. I might even ask her if she wants to try at a gymnastics place rather than a dance place - I think gymnastics coaches are much more likely to spot by holding the body of the child and taking them through it until they no longer panic. If that's not an option, maybe wait a year until she has more self-control. The wedge is to make it easier, not more scary. ETA: Would she trust practicing with your DH? Would he keep at least one hand on her at all times to make her feel safe (even though there is no danger at all?). Not asking about her dad for sexist reasons as much as that men tend to throw kids around and play more rough with them, so IME kids trust dads to protect them more in this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oh, poor thing. I think it's probably more panic than forgetting. Tell her to wait and try it in class instead of trying to work ahead. She's working herself up. I might even ask her if she wants to try at a gymnastics place rather than a dance place - I think gymnastics coaches are much more likely to spot by holding the body of the child and taking them through it until they no longer panic. If that's not an option, maybe wait a year until she has more self-control. The wedge is to make it easier, not more scary. The problem is they only get one or two turns in class, so if we just wait it probably won't happen at all. I am looking to find an open gym time or something so she can practice, but no luck so far. And the dance teacher is spotting her, but that just panics her more. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oops. I added this as an ETA while you already responded. Would she trust practicing with your DH? Would he keep at least one hand on her at all times to make her feel safe (even though there is no danger at all?). Not asking about her dad for sexist reasons as much as that men tend to throw kids around and play more rough with them, so IME kids trust dads to protect them more in this sort of thing. A tumbling class might be better for her. Even a tumbling private lesson or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 My DD loses skills every time she has a new gymnastics/tumbling coach until she really has it mastered. So, she just shifted coaches. She still has her rolls, backbone, and cartwheel, but lost her round off, kick-over, and back handspring. It's been like this since she started-and I know, good and well, that in about a month, new coach will be crowing about the amazing progress she's made-which just means she's relearned the stuff that she had with the prior coach, and is now starting to build on that foundation. When this coach's schedule changes, she'll lose whatever skills she's working on then, and a couple she had pretty solid, but she'll keep more than she did a year ago. I do think it's an anxiety and muscle memory thing-she needs to overlearn it to deep muscle memory before it can override the anxiety. I will also say that she started taking gymnastics at your DD's age for similar reasons-her cheer coach would try to have the girls do a tumbling skill, and DD would end up panicked, in tears. The gymnastics gym had a smaller class size and the coaches spotted more and taught more incremental skills instead of moving straight to the specific skill. I think they also had more experience with anxious kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Can you convince her it isn't that important? Lots of 5yos can't do a forward roll correctly. I agree that having her try over and over might be adding to the stress. Maybe ask the teacher to watch her and suggest a specific home practice drill that works on just part of the overall skill? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 You know, I may ask about private tumbling lessons, even one or two might help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Do any of your local gymnastics studios have a Kid's Night Out or free play time? My dd5 loves to go to these and it is a totally stress-free way to work on those types of things at her own pace with no pressure to 'perform.' They are often supervised by college-age gymnastics instructors and the kids mostly play...but the instructors will help and encourage as well. She would also get to see a variety of ages and kids doing them randomly, maybe realize it is supposed to be fun and not work:) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 It doesn't help that her not quite 3 year old brother can do them with no problem, ramp or no ramp. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It doesn't help that her not quite 3 year old brother can do them with no problem, ramp or no ramp. Sigh. My less athletic, younger kid always seemed a natural for forward rolls somehow. My older, better gymnast? I'm still not sure she does them right. Something about bending the neck. She is way ahead of her sister on most "hard" skills, but form / flexibility is not her strong point. It helps to remember that what I view as "a skill" is actually a complex combination of many different skills, each of which may develop at different times. When one of my kids has trouble with something a peer can do, I tell them to ask the coach for advice at the next class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It doesn't help that her not quite 3 year old brother can do them with no problem, ramp or no ramp. Sigh. This might be a great opportunity to talk to your daughter about how stress can hinder all of us. The 2 year old can probably do the roll easily partly because he isn't worried about a class or a teacher or a deadline. Tell about a couple times that you had to do something that should have been easy, but you were so stressed or frazzled that your brain was too busy worrying and couldn't focus on the task. Your daughter might feel better just knowing that we all have those types of feelings sometimes and that it isn't that she can't do a forward roll (because clearly she can sometimes), but that her brain is struggling in this particular situation. Then you could encourage her to cope with the situation by 1) seeing how she could make it easier for her brain (maybe you could lead her to the idea of having mom on one side of your couch cushion ramp and dad on the other so for sure she can't fall off) and 2) trying to consciously relax and let go of the stress...the internet has lots of suggestions about kid-friendly breathing techniques to help relax. Wendy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Kids develop motor skills at different rates and some really need a LOT of extra practice for the muscle memory and brain connections to be strong enough to be consistently successful. DD is a natural at nearly anything physical. She was swimming the full length of the pool by 3 and saved her brother from drowning at 4. First time she hopped on roller blades she did beautifully, only falling one time. She has never needed training wheels on her bike. THAT isn't normal. She is outside the normal curve of development. Normally kids need time and help with those skills. DS is on the other end. He doesn't just need a little help, he needed a LOT of help to get that motor planning and muscle memory and over all brain and body connection down. He really struggled with all of those things, struggled badly. He wasn't able to ride a bike without training wheels until this year. He needed private lessons to really get his karate moves down (class and practice at home weren't enough). In fact, karate was so bad we were afraid he would have to quit. He struggled terribly to learn how to swim and needed private swim lessons before he could really safely swim. He kept putting himself back in the beginner skating class because he knew he needed more time and was sooo unbalanced. Now? He can ride his bike now without training wheels. He skates like a pro. He is smooth as glass and loves it and has won some contests. He has won swim competitions (including a few first place medals) and is trying out for a local swim team. He has won awards in karate. In giving him the extra time and the very targeted instruction he ended up thriving in all of those areas of extreme weakness. I think your idea of private lessons is a good one. And if you network you may be able to find someone willing to give those lessons cheaply. Just keep in mind that at 5 she may also need more time. Each child really does have their own developmental path. Hugs and best wishes. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'll take this a totally different direction and ask if she's had an OT eval. With that much anxiety, pressure to perform (rather than focus on character and fun), I'd be looking for a different program. My ds does gymnastics and tumbling at the Y, and they are able to be ever patient with him. Given your older dc has an aspie diagnosis, it would be reasonable to ask whether your dd is low tone or has some other OT issues going on affecting her. Now would be a good time to catch it. Seeing a big difference in the time she needs to learn motor planning vs. her agemates would be an indicator. (My ds basically takes 2-3 times longer than anyone else to learn a skill.) So that's how I get to asking about the OT eval. Not to be too out of the blue or anything. :D And, btw, I have my ds in multiple classes, precisely because he *does* need so much more than anyone else to get to the same place. He has some mild overall dyspraxia and of course has his ASD label. What I like about the Y is they have so many levels where they can keep it just about the fun. And they have enough classes that he can have multiple and not have it conspicuous that he's needing more work than other kids to get to the same place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmer Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Could you help her with a cue word?? When I taught gymnastics I would remind all the little kids to look for their belly buttons because it helped put them in the right position. Perhaps if you said belly button it would remind her what to do but also be silly because belly buttons are silly for little kids so help with the panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I will say that my DD does have OT issues as well, both sensory and motor, so that's one reason why it takes her so much longer to get skills into muscle memory-and she does several classes a week as well. One reason why we moved to just tumbling vs gymnastics is that it was getting so obvious that DD wasn't moving up, but in tumbling, it's more multi-age/mixed level, so you have kids working on cartwheels and forward rolls mixed with kids working on tumbling passes, and often the age range is wide (and I've been known to change classes if a class turns out to be all 6 yr olds-we want that class with the beginning 12 yr old who takes for a few months to master skills her middle school cheer coach wants her to learn). I also have to say-don't assume anxiety related meltdowns are a reason for dropping the activity. DD would burst into tears about 15 minutes into each cheer practice when she was 4 because it was just too much, but didn't want to leave and was eager to go the following week. She has pushed herself, consistently, to master and control her body and her sensory issues more for cheer than for anything else. I don't know why it fills a need, but it does, and the result is that she's been really willing to work-with coaches at cheer and gymnastics, with OTs, with instructors. She's not the best out there, and never will be, but she can keep up and loves every minute of it. She is often the captain of her group and is often asked to help out with the younger kids because she's good with those who struggle. It's been amazing for her. It may well be that dance will be good for your DD in the same way-don't let anxiety and struggle over the tumbling component lead you to pulling her out if she really wants to be there-tears and all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If she's so upset why don't you wait another year? This sounds like too much anxiety and drama for a young child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I hate to ask, but have you considered she might be manifesting spectrum traits? I only have 1 girl to compare to my 3 boys. With the boys I feel like I can compare how they behaved at various ages and get a pretty good idea of what is happening. For my girl, I have no idea what is girl emotions and what is rigid thinking. KWIM? Do you think your DD's problem is social anxiety? Is she afraid of doing the stunt at home, or just afraid of what others' will think if she fails? Knowing the motivation for the fear might help you work on reducing it. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Would a rhyme help? " I am so tall [reach up to the ceiling] I am so small [bend and touch toes] I tuck my head And roll like a ball" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 My kids have sensory quirks and perfectionist tendencies. And I have to say, these types of classes have been GREAT for my kids over the long haul. But there were times during our early days where it barely felt worth it. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'll take this a totally different direction and ask if she's had an OT eval. With that much anxiety, pressure to perform (rather than focus on character and fun), I'd be looking for a different program. My ds does gymnastics and tumbling at the Y, and they are able to be ever patient with him. Given your older dc has anaspie diagnosis, it would be reasonable to ask whether your dd is low tone or has some other OT issues going on affecting her. Now would be a good time to catch it. Seeing a big difference in the time she needs to learn motor planning vs. heragemates would be an indicator. (Myds basically takes 2-3 times longer than anyone else to learn a skill.) So that's how I get to asking about the OT eval. Not to be too out of the blue or anything. :D And, btw, I have my ds in multiple classes, precisely because he *does* need so much more than anyone else to get to the same place. He has some mild overall dyspraxia and of course has his ASD label. What I like about the Y is they have so many levels where they can keep it just about the fun. And they have enough classes that he can have multiple and not have it conspicuous that he's needing more work than other kids to get to the same place. The class is actually REALLY low pressure. This is all internal,not external. I chose this place because they are very developmentally appropriate. They help the kids do the things they can't with no stress, but Molly puts pressure on herself. Sigh. In the dance portion she did better than her agemates, able to skip forwards and backwards when many couldn't, for example. This is definitely a brain issue not a motor skills issue. She scares herself, gets worked up, gets more scared, etc etc. What's funny is that when she does get it, she instantly says, "oh, i'm so good at this", lol. I'm remembering that when she learned to walk she didn't do it until she could do it well. Same with everything else. Her brother throws himself in head first and does it without thinking. She overthinks everything. The breathing stuff is a good idea, I'll try that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 If she's so upset why don't you wait another year? This sounds like too much anxiety and drama for a young child. Because she wants it so badly. It's hard to describe, but this isn't a kid that melts down and gives up. It's a kid that melts down but won't give up, no matter what. Which is what makes her so difficult, lol. With swimming lessons, she was afraid to put her face in. No one was making her do it. Her instructor even was teaching her how to swim with her face out of the water, rather than push it. NO pressur. But SHE put pressure on herself, and would cry and get angry because she wanted to put her face in, but at the same time was terrified to do it. Until, one day, she did. And then you couldn't get her back OUT of the water, lol. She's often conflicted like that, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I hate to ask, but have you considered she might be manifesting spectrum traits? I only have 1 girl to compare to my 3 boys. With the boys I feel like I can compare how they behaved at various ages and get a pretty good idea of what is happening. For my girl, I have no idea what is girl emotions and what is rigid thinking. KWIM? Do you think your DD's problem is social anxiety? Is she afraid of doing the stunt at home, or just afraid of what others' will think if she fails? Knowing the motivation for the fear might help you work on reducing it. :grouphug: It's possible I suppose, but she doesn't have any of the traits her big brother does, who is on the spectrum. In fact, her ped once said, 'Whatever he didn't get (referring to oldest) she was born with extra of." She's VERY empathetic, easily reads cues, etc. But she's a perfectionist, and has drama like no one I know. Reminds me of DH's late mother sometimes, which is not a good thing. But she would have said "it's too hard" and given up, Molly will say "it's too hard" and keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oh, I did figure out she's afraid of getting hurt. Of falling off the ramp, in particular, or rolling "so fast" down it that she goes off the mat at the end. She was even this morning afraid to do her normal forward roll, not on the ramp, because she was afraid of rolling off the mattress. I put extra pillows all around it and then she could do it. She hardly ever gets hurt, so for her it's a big scary thing. Her brother (the one that can do them easily) is constantly bruised and scraped, so for him he has no real fear of another bump or bruise. She scraped her knee ONCE in the past two years and it was as if her leg had been amputated. She worried over it for weeks. Yes, sensory issues run in the family, why do you ask :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Another example of the personality issue. We were eating chinese food last night, because she wanted to learn about China this week. She really wanted to use chopsticks, so I had ordered the little "cheater" attachments you put on the top, to make it easier. The 3 year old used those, no issue. She refused, and wanted to do it the grown up way. Even when I told her kids in China do it with the little helper things. (no idea if they do, but was willing to say so to get her to use them.) We honestly thought she might starve, because it was so hard, and she just refused to give up and eat with her hands or fork or the helper thing. But darned if after about 20 minutes she didn't get a bite into her mouth! She ate less than usual probably, but she ate her meal with those chopsticks. She's eating the leftover for lunch right now, still using the chopsticks. VERY SLOWLY, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Can you talk to her about how sometimes our feelings get in the way of what we want to do. So sometimes it is better to take a short break and come back to it in a few minutes when we are calm? She may not have the ability and self awareness to step away in the heat of the moment. But wouldnt it be great it she did.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Success! We had a shorter "ramp" and then this one! https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Op, you're sort of describing me as a kid. ("She's VERY empathetic, easily reads cues, etc. But she's a perfectionist" also the very careful/aware that getting hurt is possible) When I read the book The Highly Sensitive Person by E. Aron it rang true for me. It's been a while since I read it but I remember wishing I'd known about it sooner. In a nutshell some people sense more stuff. I appreciate the positive parts of being sensitive! I recommend this book to you because I think my anxiety also comes from being sensitive and I think knowing this about myself would have helped keep anxiety at bay. Sorry if I'm out of line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Op, you're sort of describing me as a kid. ("She's VERY empathetic, easily reads cues, etc. But she's a perfectionist" also the very careful/aware that getting hurt is possible) When I read the book The Highly Sensitive Person by E. Aron it rang true for me. It's been a while since I read it but I remember wishing I'd known about it sooner. In a nutshell some people sense more stuff. I appreciate the positive parts of being sensitive! I recommend this book to you because I think my anxiety also comes from being sensitive and I think knowing this about myself would have helped keep anxiety at bay. Sorry if I'm out of line! Not out of line at all! I'm sensitive too, but in different ways, so I will probably enjoy it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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