My oh-so-persecuted 13 yo ds--help me

[Halcyon]

I need help with a behavioral issue with DS13. He will do annoying things to his brother (most frequently) or me and then when I call him on it, will bemoan how 'he didn't do anything" or "I wasn't doing anything !!" or "you ALWAYS pick on me!" Then he will get into a huff. In extreme situations, where I have had it with the teasing or annoying behavior, I will lose my temper and this will feed his "persecution complex" and he often will storm to his room in anger (and sometimes in tears). 

 

Some of his behaviors include: whistling while doing schoolwork (and being told repeatedly to either stop or go into another room so his brother can concentrate), sitting RIGHT next to his brother to do his work when there is plenty of table space availabe--indeed, there are many tables. Then he will subtly nudge his brother's work, or his elbow. Another example is walking next to his brother and constantly "walking into" him so his brother has to continually move sideways. His brother will almost always ask him to please stop the behavior when he is doing something annoying, but DS13 rarely listens. He wants to get a rise out of him, of course, but the question is WHY when he knows it annoys everyone and that he will eventually get in trouble for it. 

 

He isn't a mean-spirited child, but this behavior has got to stop. It's causing strife in our family and I have tried numerous tactics to no availl. The worst part, I think, is that he never admits his wrongdoing, always insists that he is the one being "persecuted" and that I "never notice" ds10's poor behavior (which is not true). 

 

Ideas and thoughts appreciated greatly.

 

Signed, frazzled and tired mom.

[FlyingMOm]

We have found that jumping jacks, squat thrusts and burpees work wonders for this type of behavior.   And any additional complaint tacks on extra time.    In our house, every infraction gets an automatic two minutes of jumping jacks.  Each additional comment, protest, etc. results in an additional 30 seconds.   If you stop or pause, add another minute.   

 

It is amazing the turnaround we've had here.   And it counts as calisthenics/PE.  :D

[Julie Smith]

Would recording him doing the behavior help?

[Halcyon]

Julie, I've thought of that--I don't think he necessarily "sees" what he's doing. It's so gosh-darned frustrating. He is SUCH a sweet kid normally, but when it comes to this annoying behavior, he realyl does act like he is 3 years old.

[Halcyon]

My only concern with the PE stuff is that....he wouldn't take me seriously. That is to say, he wouldn't really do it. He would complain more and then eventaully would walk away. 

 

I don't know for sure that this would happen, but it would certainly undermine my authority if he did.

[texasmama]

Is he looking for attention?  Young teens fall into a category of still wanting/needing a parent's attention but not knowing how to ask for it so they may do annoying things to get it.  It can happen with girls or boys, but I think that boys struggle a bit more with getting attention/affection from mom once they hit adolescence.

 

He knows what he is doing is wrong, and he is complaining when called on it.

 

You could do a paradoxical intervention of doing the behavior to him or having his brother do it to him.  Or both.  

 

I don't know the dynamics of your family or how this might play out, but those are some thoughts and ideas from the creative yet tired part of my afternoon brain.

[texasmama]

My only concern with the PE stuff is that....he wouldn't take me seriously. That is to say, he wouldn't really do it. He would complain more and then eventaully would walk away. 

 

I don't know for sure that this would happen, but it would certainly undermine my authority if he did.

I naturally practice an understated authority with my kids so I understand this.  I don't want to change the dynamic between us or alter my parenting style drastically (old dogs and new tricks and all that) so I look for solutions that don't require that.

[fraidycat]

I can only commiserate. My 13 year old daughter drives her 9 year old brother up the wall with much the same behavior, but it's never her fault - when we call her on it, we're just mean.

 

Soon enough they'll be off to college, right? Then they can only bug on weekends and holidays.

 

That's what I keep telling myself, anyway!

[myfunnybunch]

Younger brother?

 

I agree that he probably isn't completely aware of or in control of the behavior. It is likely developmentally driven. Both my older boys started doing this annoying pester-y attention-getting behavior to the younger brother down the line around 12-13. (My poor youngest. He's not going to have anyone to pick on. :p ) It is not funny, and it is not acceptable, but I think it is an expression of a developmental stage. They're at an age where they're figuring out their place in the social pecking order (which is why middle school can be so brutal when you get a bunch of kids at this stage in the same place), and younger brother is constantly getting the brunt of it.

 

I really try to look for natural opportunities for the older boys to practice leadership, partnership, responsibility with the younger so that they can find a healthy way to express this dynamic.

 

I talk about ways to identify attention-seeking behavior, where they are developmentally and what they might need, and how they can fill those needs in a healthy way.

 

I also talk about making good choices. For example, sitting too close and invading another's personal space is a socially inappropriate behavior in any setting, with any person, whether it's your brother or a stranger. It is my job as a parent to teach socially appropriate behavior. If you choose to practice this inappropriate behavior, you will not get to choose where to sit. This will be your seat right here, every time you sit down. You will show me with your behavior whether you can independently manage your own seat choice or whether I need to manage it for you. (Or brother says "You're sitting too close," and moves every time he sits too close. Brother is showing with his behavior that he is not willing to allow anyone to invade his space. If you follow him, it is clear that you're deliberately making a unkind choice, which is not a part of our family value. What healthy kind choice do you need to make?...Or whatever choice/message fits your family values best.)

 

I wouldn't worry about making him admit to anything. I'd just describe what I see, and describe the healthier choice that he needs to make, in the context of, "In our family we (value kindness/personal space/respect), so I expect (state the behavior you'd like to see)." I think you're exactly right--it's like they're three again. As they approach and go through puberty, their brains are starting to do the same kind of reorganization and pruning that it was doing when they were little tiny ones. It's going to take a lot of repetition. It is SO aggravating!

 

:grouphug:  Eventually, you will think to your self, "Gee, I haven't had to say that for a while." And there will be new challenges. :p

[redsquirrel]

I point it out when it is happening. I say, "I have heard people ask you to stop whistling 4 times and you have not. I am wondering why you haven't stopped. Is it because your ears are clogged..or are you needing attention? Because last time I heard from you, you don't like it when we all yell at you, but all that ignoring of us is going to cause an argument. So, what are you going to do?"  

 

When someone plays the martyr like that (why is everyone picking on meeeee when I am doing noooothiiiiing) I will tell him exactly why. What happens when you point out what you see? 

 

When someone is going through a perpetual victim phase comes running to ask for an intervention I usually say "I am so sorry to hear that happened. What are you going to do about it?" Of course I would step in if something actually egregious had happened, I don't ignore everything. But, if someone is going through a pesky phase and now  his brother won't talk to him ...well....that sounds like something the pest needs to deal with, not mom.

[Haiku]

If there are multiple tables available, assign the kids to different tables. Make him pay his brother for whistling. Hold his hand when you're walking so he can't walk next to his brother, or, if you're not around, assign a dollar value to every bump or nudge and make him pay for them.

 

My son has poor impulse control. Discussing compulsive behaviors with him does exactly diddly squat. Making such behaviors uncomfortable for him (socially, financially, what-have-you) works much better. When he complains about it, I remind him that I only do this for ongoing, intractable problems and that he can choose to have no consequences by choosing to stop the obnoxious behavior.

[Katy]

Random thoughts...

 

I would suspect a kid who seemed unusually upset about a punishment would be because the punishment felt extra harsh to him because it was in his love language.  I would guess his love language is praise and he hasn't had enough of it lately.

 

I would also guess he doesn't realize when he's being a pest so he's legitimately feeling hurt.  With my tween a videotape was enough, but I suspect there are different love languages at play with yours.

 

My approach would be probably tether training him - literally he needs to be by your side all of the day so you can instantly correct him.  And then when you do, have the correction be non verbal.  IE: see him push a sibling, he writes I will not push my brother 100 times, and then does something nice for said brother such as taking over one of sibling's chores for the evening or making his bed the next day, etc.  Give him this punishment in writing and not verbally if that helps.

 

In the mean time give him praise for every little thing he does right, even things you consider common sense and to be his job.  Give him extra hugs.

 

I really suspect that will help a lot, in less than 2-3 days.

 

 

ETA:  I would also talk to him about this.  Tell him about the golden rule, and clearly the way you've been correcting him hasn't been working for him lately so you're going to try an experiment in a different way of correcting him.  The first time he does something wrong I'd just clear your throat and raise one eyebrow.  That's a warning.  If he persists there will be consequences, and you'll give him those in writing.  No scolding, just consequences for bad behavior and praise for good behavior.

[City Mouse]

As much as possible don't give him the opportunity to pester. Remove chairs from the room so that he has to sit at a different table. Give brother headphones to wear so that he doesn't have to listen to whistling. (I have found it impossible to break a child who whistles/sings while working from making the noises. With mine it is not done with the intention of bothering, but that is the result.

Don't let the brothers be side by side - other brother can take it upon himself to one away.

Most of all, don't engage with he complains about being corrected. Just repeat over and over "I asked you to ...". Some. Kids like to argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

If nothing else works, I fall back on a favorite line that I told my kids "You make me miserable (with behavior or attitude), I will make you miserable." And that is usually followed with some awful chore such as pulling weeds.

[Joyofsixreboot]

With my boys, as a semi-joke I got the spray bottle I use on the cat and when the pestering started I would spritz him.I would say "bad kitty" or something silly. He got the idea. I also got the dog clicker and when he was pleasant I clicked and gave him a chocolate kiss. It was joking but got the idea across.

[fairfarmhand]

I tell my kids that pestering is a form of fight picking and it's just as bad as slugging someone. If someone asks them to stop, and they don't do it, they are being a bully by just annoying people. "So, you're having fun by making someone miserable? What does that say about you? "

 

So they get a warning, and then they get consequences. Often, doing something nice for the party they are aggravating is just the thing. I also have a list of chores. Washing baseboards, getting trash out of the car, vacuuming the van...all of those are what happens when someone continually pesters.

 

And I have a line, when i get the "But I was just doing ____. You're just picking on me."

 

"Um...No, You weren't just doing ___. I've been a kid before and I am not stupid. You were intentionally bothering someone, it's not funny. And here are the consequences."

[lllll]

nm

[MomatHWTK]

Every time he starts to do something annoying walk over to him, give him a big hug, then look him in the eyes and tell him you love him.  Break the habit cycle. 

[Punks in Ontario]

Sounds like you've had lots of great ideas to try all ready.

 

One more may be to increase the level of physical activity - especially activities that involve lots of strength - not as a punishment, but recognizing that he needs more physical outlet as a young teen.  I would do this with him when you can.  Around here that could mean splitting wood for the family, moving lumber and weed eating.  I realize most people may not  have much like this to do, but my guys just needed something physically challenging each day.  It settled down some of the crazies.