Thoughts on high IQs

[ebunny]

Fwiw, I hope no one reads my posts in this thread as argumentative. That isn't my intention at all. In our household, this is called dialogue. We hardly ever just agree on anything. Questioning each other's POV is just how we roll. ;)

 

:001_smile: I've been misunderstood by taking the 'questioning and/or challenging pov' approach, so I tend to be cautious online and IRL.

[maize]

I'm reading the discussion here with great interest.

 

IQ matters, clearly, but it is never more than one piece of the equation. I came from a large family with obviously high IQ's, though most of us were never tested; it came out in things like standardized testing. How far IQ took a person though depended on other characteristics. Anxiety, depression, low processing speed, dyslexia, ADHD...these were all limiting factors.

[Runningmom80]

It's often weird to be a parent of a HG child who really doesn't have an academic passion or focus. No, she's not PG so maybe I just don't understand, but there is so much I can't relate to in this forum simply because academic type learning isn't what drives her. Mostly it just means that she's a wicked fast learner so we get through stuff so she can get on with her life. She is 2e too which for her exhibits as super fast learner meets super slow output. She is terrified of all the cool tests and things that you guys post about here. Exams and academic competitions for fun are a complete nightmare for her. She is truly horrified at the thought.

 

Just today we were talking about future SAT plans and testing accommodations and stuff. She said what if I don't want to go to college. I said that was her choice. She has a couple science-based goals in the long-term but right now her passions are things like circus arts.

 

She has OEs, anxieties and many other stereotypical giftedness gifts. But, if she doesn't have interest in pushing the academic envelope right now, I'm not concerned. It's just a weird place to be as a parent sometimes.

 

This.

 

I have a kid who is EG, borderline PG, and he's not at all interested in anything academic.  It can feel at times like I should be doing more for him, because you read about these kids not being supported, but he just isn't into academics. It is a weird place to be, especially on this board.  I enjoy reading about all of the other GT kids doing amazing things, but I do start to wonder if I screwed this up somehow, or if I'm "wasting his gift." I'm not concerned per se, I'm sure he is going to be fine in the long run.  Hmmm, I'm still not explaining myself right.  It's hard to articulate what I feel about it. 

 

Anyways,  I do take comfort in the fact that I'm trying my hardest to just let him be who he is. 

 

Ruth, I also didn't love that thread.  It didn't make me sad, but it just felt weird.  IDK.  I just posted links to other places in hopes that more reading on the subject would make things a little easier for that OP.

[8filltheheart]

I have always heard this stated as perfectionism combined with ' reach exceeds grasp'It takes time and a mental switch for people to accept 'good enough', especially in a world with little handmade crafting. And this age group wants expertise to develop more quickly than it can. They try to squeeze those 10, 0000 hours in to as few days as possible .

I think that in general the two often intertwine, but our Ds has no general perfectionist tendencies. His compulsions are responses to triggers and his obsessive behaviors are his attempt at coping. His high levels of anxiety feed the vicious cycle.

[Dmmetler]

Honestly, I think the really focused, intense, driven about one subject early are the exception, not the rule. It's a choice and a drive innate in them, not something that is a set path that is somehow the desired one.

 

Actually, I have woken up in the middle of the night that DD will at some point wake up hating snakes and hating that she's spent her life on them-like you hear sometimes happens with athletic or musical prodigies. I've known some burned out music prodigies, and it's not pretty. In my case, it was grad school when I realized that I couldn't hear music without mentally analyzing it, and I couldn't enjoy it. Which is why I ended up in the graduate education program, getting a degree in math education. It wasn't until I stepped back and just let music be for fun that I started remembering why I enjoyed it. Why I loved it. And, ultimately, why I loved teaching it.

 

But, at the same time, I truly can't imagine her without that drive towards something. So, I'm trying to keep her involved in the herpetoculture community as well as the academic herpetology community-to know that there are a lot of pretty happy, successful adults who love snakes, enjoy keeping a few-but haven't made them their life's work. And that whatever she chooses long-term is fine with us-that she doesn't have a career at 10, and that she can enjoy going to the conferences, reading the journals and doing the research without being as obsessed as the grad students are-because there's a big difference between being 25 and being 10.

[Runningmom80]

Honestly, I think the really focused, intense, driven about one subject early are the exception, not the rule. It's a choice and a drive innate in them, not something that is a set path that is somehow the desired one.

 

Actually, I have woken up in the middle of the night that DD will at some point wake up hating snakes and hating that she's spent her life on them-like you hear sometimes happens with athletic or musical prodigies. I've known some burned out music prodigies, and it's not pretty. In my case, it was grad school when I realized that I couldn't hear music without mentally analyzing it, and I couldn't enjoy it. Which is why I ended up in the graduate education program, getting a degree in math education. It wasn't until I stepped back and just let music be for fun that I started remembering why I enjoyed it. Why I loved it. And, ultimately, why I loved teaching it.

 

But, at the same time, I truly can't imagine her without that drive towards something. So, I'm trying to keep her involved in the herpetoculture community as well as the academic herpetology community-to know that there are a lot of pretty happy, successful adults who love snakes, enjoy keeping a few-but haven't made them their life's work. And that whatever she chooses long-term is fine with us-that she doesn't have a career at 10, and that she can enjoy going to the conferences, reading the journals and doing the research without being as obsessed as the grad students are-because there's a big difference between being 25 and being 10.

 

I didn't mean to imply that this path was the "desired one," just that it looks a lot more productive than what we're doing. ;)

 

[Dmmetler]

In some cases, though, I think the wide ranged background is more beneficial. I really fight DD to make sure that she does have a background in history, in literature, in culture...in those subjects which aren't science and don't necessarily relate to science because she may well discover she loves them, too-and because they're important to know. As a young musician, I saw the kids who truly only did their art and what was the minimum needed to get by otherwise, and when they crashed, it was painful. It's much harder to regroup when you've focused your entire life on getting to Julliard and basicallt phoned in high school math since you didn't need to take the SAT, only audition well.

 

It is NORMAL for kids to change their major when they get to college and see what's out there. It's very normal to start college not knowing what you want to be. And that's OK. And I would say that even at GT programs and camps, there are probably a dozen or more generalists for every specialist.

[SparrowsNest]

This is what made me so sad!  How sad for all those people whose parents pushed them too hard just because of a number.  There were just so many voices on that thread with such similar stories.  I just want to tell the OP who is now reading this thread, that it does not have to be that way.  That there are those of us who see high IQ as just one piece of the puzzle of life and use it to inform us only when it is useful.  My son knows that my approach to finding contentment in the working world is to fulfil the three part triangle.  You want to love what you do, be good at it, and have work both available & reasonably paid.  If you can get all three points, you will be happier than if you have just 2.  High IQ does mean that there are more jobs that my ds can be good at, but he still needs the other 2 points of the triangle to find contentment.

 

How can so many parents get it wrong for there to have been so many similar stories?  Is it just pride?  Why in the world would you push your kid to 'live up to their potential.'  It is just yucky!

 

 

That makes so much sense now :)  Thank you for explaining.

[quark]

No one test is going to break down a person's make up accurately but I had to step even further away from associating personality and intensity and self identity with IQ once I read about the history of the tests (I have only read a little and that too only about testing in the US. I don't have any idea about testing in other countries). And how it seems to favor native English speakers. And from meeting and observing many high IQ families where I live and being given insights into their family lives and educational experiences and yes, even their children's IQs, just from listening and in many cases offering my shoulder for support (and vice versa).

 

Ruth, you said

 

 

And these are all parts of IQ. Add to this off-the-charts persistence and motivation and a bit of self-centered enthusiasm, and then add in a large dose of extrovertion and you get intensity.

For *my* ds, intensity *is* a reflection of IQ.

and I understand from this that you are saying intensity is a combo of the IQ subtest categories and all those personality traits you listed, not that his intensity = IQ.

 

But the test that measures that IQ number in itself is flawed isn't it?

 

Does anyone know how much the tests have changed over the years and what adjustments have been made e.g. the Stanford Binet vs SB5 or the WISC 1 vs WISC 4 and now WISC 5? Is there an article that clearly outlines these changes somewhere?

[WinsomeCreek]

Just my observation on where IQ really shows up. PG kids often look like specialists wherever they are. At math camp they look like a math kid. At music camp they're the music kid. At speech camp... you get the point. The ability to learn super fast and take things beyond where most go has this effect. It's a good argument for finding kids of similar abilities. It can get old and frustrating for the GT kid to be called out by a teacher and praised when it's, well, his least favorite subject and he did the work the night before.

I was addressing the OP of the other thread in that thread. Based on the one she started here I interpreted her original post incorrectly. I thought she was feeling the need to push her kid based on IQ alone and a need to live up to the potential of a number. It is an overwhelming feeling to first understand where your kid fits in the general population. It can feel isolating, scary. The feeling of responsibility is real. I don't want to negate that at all. When your perspective is already skewed it's kind of wierd to find perspective. I hope that makes sense!

[Dmmetler]

Just my observation on where IQ really shows up. PG kids often look like specialists wherever they are. At math camp they look like a math kid. At music camp they're the music kid. At speech camp... you get the point. The ability to learn super fast and take things beyond where most go has this effect. It's a good argument for finding kids of similar abilities. It can get old and frustrating for the GT kid to be called out by a teacher and praised when it's, well, his least favorite subject and he did the work the night before.

I was addressing the OP of the other thread in that thread. Based on the one she started here I interpreted her original post incorrectly. I thought she was feeling the need to push her kid based on IQ alone and a need to live up to the potential of a number. It is an overwhelming feeling to first understand where your kid fits in the general population. It can feel isolating, scary. The feeling of responsibility is real. I don't want to negate that at all. When your perspective is already skewed it's kind of wierd to find perspective. I hope that makes sense!

I think that was something DD loved about this summer-she suddenly wasn't the "math kid, science kid, piano kid, the one who remembers the cheer routine when the coach forgets it...." All of the kids were good at a lot of stuff-but mostly had one thing they loved, whether it was reading and telling stories, physics, chemistry, biology, dancing, piano composition, memorizing every single Pokemon, being really, really good with the Rubix cube, making absolutely amazing minecraft worlds, drawing....

 

The single thing that makes her most angry is when adults call her out for being a "genius"-and she wasn't even trying :(.

[lewelma]

I still don't see the connection between intensity and the 5 traits you've mentioned. Correlation doesn't imply causation... But to each his/her own.

 

Fwiw, I didn't come to this thread intending to pick an argument; just wanted to express that there are multiple and equally valid perspectives to the high IQ issue.

 

Ebunny, I don't view anything you have said as picking an argument.  This board always helps me to really question my underlying beliefs.  So all good.

 

However, being a scientist, I gave myself an out.  Note that I did say that for *my* kid, and never generalized to the population. :001_smile:   

[lewelma]

No one test is going to break down a person's make up accurately but I had to step even further away from associating personality and intensity and self identity with IQ once I read about the history of the tests (I have only read a little and that too only about testing in the US. I don't have any idea about testing in other countries). And how it seems to favor native English speakers. And from meeting and observing many high IQ families where I live and being given insights into their family lives and educational experiences and yes, even their children's IQs, just from listening and in many cases offering my shoulder for support (and vice versa).

 

Ruth, you said

 

 

and I understand from this that you are saying intensity is a combo of the IQ subtest categories and all those personality traits you listed, not that his intensity = IQ.

 

But the test that measures that IQ number in itself is flawed isn't it?

 

Does anyone know how much the tests have changed over the years and what adjustments have been made e.g. the Stanford Binet vs SB5 or the WISC 1 vs WISC 4 and now WISC 5? Is there an article that clearly outlines these changes somewhere?

 

Quark, I agree that the IQ is flawed.  Really flawed.  In fact, I think it seriously underestimated my son's capability, but that is because he has one very special trait - awe-inspiring persistence when the going gets tough. 

 

I have a bad habit of using the term, IQ, as a shortcut for intelligence.  Clearly they are not the same, as one is a number on a test and another is a holistic trait of a person.  But what the IQ test did give me was a feel for my ds's strengths and weaknesses.  Not only do I now understand why he is so good at maths but also why he could not spell: he had off-the-charts working memory and incredibly poor auditory processing.   However, this is where the IQ test does not tell the whole story.  My ds at age 6 had a speech impediment and a *serious* spelling problem given that he had learned to read when he was mispronouncing most words.  He actually mapped the wrong letters to english sounds. But now, at age 14 he has perfect pitch and speaks Mandarin without an accent apparently.  The brain is plastic, and doing 30 minutes to and hour a day of ear work for 10 years (playing the violin) completely reprogrammed the auditory part of his brain.  This is just one reason why the IQ test is flawed-- people change, brains change.

[lewelma]

In some cases, though, I think the wide ranged background is more beneficial. I really fight DD to make sure that she does have a background in history, in literature, in culture...in those subjects which aren't science and don't necessarily relate to science because she may well discover she loves them, too-and because they're important to know. As a young musician, I saw the kids who truly only did their art and what was the minimum needed to get by otherwise, and when they crashed, it was painful. It's much harder to regroup when you've focused your entire life on getting to Julliard and basicallt phoned in high school math since you didn't need to take the SAT, only audition well.

 

It is NORMAL for kids to change their major when they get to college and see what's out there. It's very normal to start college not knowing what you want to be. And that's OK. And I would say that even at GT programs and camps, there are probably a dozen or more generalists for every specialist.

 

The work your dd does in science has allowed her to develop a huge number of transferable skills-  high-level reading, writing, math, presentation skills, organisational skills, people skills.  She is a generalist in skills just not in content.  And in my books, skills are more important than content.

[Arcadia]

The brain is plastic, and doing 30 minutes to and hour a day of ear work for 10 years (playing the violin) completely reprogrammed the auditory part of his brain. This is just one reason why the IQ test is flawed-- people change, brains change.

:grouphug: if your older son's IQ test results were from that long ago, isn't it time to lay the ghost of past IQ test scores to rest :grouphug:

 

"Feynman's younger sister Joan, also a physicist, once said that "[Richard] had a normal IQ. When I was a kid, I sneaked off and got into the files, and looked up our IQ’s. Mine was 124, and his was 123. "

Link http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/brau/H182/Term%20Papers/Ryan%20McPherson.html

[lewelma]

:grouphug: if your older son's IQ test results were from that long ago, isn't it time to lay the ghost of past IQ test scores to rest :grouphug:

 

Fascinating, I must have given a really wrong impression.  I don't care one dink about my ds's IQ score from all those years ago.  I find it interesting to think about who he was then and who he is now and how he has changed.  But his actual IQ score?  naw.  It means nothing as you know.  I only started this thread because the other one just made me so sad.  

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Ebunny, I don't view anything you have said as picking an argument.  This board always helps me to really question my underlying beliefs.  So all good.

 

However, being a scientist, I gave myself an out.  Note that I did say that for *my* kid, and never generalized to the population. :001_smile:   

 

I'm not sure I understand this statement. Just because you aren't generalizing doesn't make the statement true. How do you *know* his intensity is a reflection of his IQ? How do you explain that? By what process has this occurred?

 

Do you believe that only the genes responsible for IQ are responsible for intensity? There are no other factors at play? So if his IQ were lower, you know for a fact he would be less intense because the genes that contribute to his IQ are the same ones responsible for his intensity? 

 

Doesn't there need to be some explanation to how or why this is? Doesn't there need to be some way to show if one were different the other would be too?

 

Correlation doesn't equal causation whether you are referring to one person you know well or an entire population. 

 

I would agree if you are saying intensity is a reflection of who he is as a person. A reflection of one small part of him? I have my doubts...

[lewelma]

 

 

Correlation doesn't equal causation whether you are referring to one person you know well or an entire population. 

 I know.   :001_smile:  When I wrote that I thought, oops not quite talking about the same thing - sampling vs causation, but I'm in the middle of taking a Physics mock exam, and am doing two things at once.  

 

Look, honestly I can just relate to what dmmetler said upthread about intensity and intelligence in her daughter so I tried in my mind to think why I could relate to her post.  Being a reductionist that I probably am, I starting thinking about what *specific* traits give me the impression of the holistic feeling of intensity and tried to write about that.  I have no super clear scientific thoughts and have not read on the issue.  It is easy for humans to find patterns where none exist, and perhaps I did that.  Or perhaps it would be an interesting PhD thesis.  :001_smile:

[kiwik]

Thank you!!!!! I am the OP from the other thread. My whole point of adding this background information was to let the Hive know that I really do not care what her actual IQ score is and we tested her only to use it to our small-town political advantage. I always knew she was intelligent and grasped concepts very easily. To put an actual number on it, in reality, does not change much for her or myself or the way she learns or her future goals. However, I DO see her intelligence as a gift or talent or whatever you want to call it (just as I always had before we knew a specific number) that I expect her to use in her career choice or to further humanity or just in her everyday life, just as I think someone with a gift of artistic ability or the gift of verbal communication would do the same.

 

Apparently my gift is not written communication because my question in the other thread was simply what programs are available to her now that I have an actual IQ number? This is what I meant by "doors are open for her." I guess I thought that was obvious when I began writing about how my husband wanted her to join Mensa.

 

But, I will not hijack this thread, just wanted to insert my explanation. I am going to post another thread on this board specifically about programs, so please click on it if you have a moment.

 

Carry on......

I think you should have posted on this board. How about the two of you do a project together - set up a board or something with ideas and info. You have so much more choice that my kids do so make the most of it and enjoy. Put in success and evaluation criteria in case you get it wrong so you don't end up feeling stuck.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 I know.   :001_smile:  When I wrote that I thought, oops not quite talking about the same thing - sampling vs causation, but I'm in the middle of taking a Physics mock exam, and am doing two things at once.  

 

Look, honestly I can just relate to what dmmetler said upthread about intensity and intelligence in her daughter so I tried in my mind to think why I could relate to her post.  Being a reductionist that I probably am, I starting thinking about what *specific* traits give me the impression of the holistic feeling of intensity and tried to write about that.  I have no super clear scientific thoughts and have not read on the issue.  It is easy for humans to find patterns where none exist, and perhaps I did that.  Or perhaps it would be an interesting PhD thesis.  :001_smile:

 

The scientist comment in your previous post unsettled me. Reading the above quoted post, it's obvious you understand that these are just your personal impressions based on observations of your son. Anecdotal, of course.  After seeing your mention of being a scientist in the other thread, I presumed we were going to start discussing things on a different level, so I was particularly dismayed by what came after. I know you didn't mean it that way and, as you stated above, you were distracted. Still, I thought it worth pointing out, thus my response. Even when it's said in a joking manner, it's not uncommon for people to give more weight to a scientist's thoughts,  so I always try to use caution before invoking the name of science. Forgive me if I'm a little intense about that.. ;)

 

A different anecdotal perspective...

 

My dd has been going through some changes lately. It's been a bit bewildering to watch. One of the changes is less intensity in some areas of her personality, intensity she has had since infancy...

 

Should I panic that her IQ or intelligence is plummeting as I watch helplessly?

 

On the contrary, I am cautiously rejoicing. I am seeing other characteristics emerge that allow her intelligence to shine through just as much, if not more. Intelligence is only as good as it is useful. If it does no good to even herself, what good is it? With her mix of genetics and life experiences, a decrease in intensity allows a bit more acceptance of risk and more input from other realms, which in turn unleashes creativity. It also allows more confidence in written and spoken correspondence with the people she needs to communicate with if she is to accomplish the goals her intelligence has allowed her to set. 

 

Intensity is a characteristic.  Like all characteristics, it can be good or bad. Much depends on circumstances and on the other traits with which it mingles.

[quark]

WMA, thank you for sharing what you do about your DD. It makes me feel a little less alone. I sometimes doubt (ok bear with me, lol, you know how much I doubt everything) this whole community college decision. It's so hard to find the sweet spot and we fell into this choice for reasons I've already mentioned many times here but I still question it so much. Especially for level of challenge. We still do a lot of tweaking semester to semester, and found out that although it doesn't work for math and programming, it works for foreign languages and science labs and so far, so thankfully, literature and music. He is actually being challenged in these areas. I'm SO glad.

 

I don't know if it is puberty or lack of interest and time or just this sudden exposure to group-based studies on a very regular basis, but I do notice DS having less intensity in some areas, and a sort of spreading out in others to embrace areas he previously didn't want to think about and I think his mind is struggling to cope with these new challenges coming his way. It's quite interesting to watch. He is missing assignments sometimes, scored lower grades in two assignments, forgot a few things, and wow am I glad lol. It's all such an important transition for him and while I watch on anxiously I am also glad he is able to experience these new challenges. It's all a human part of being a kid, the ability to learn from mistakes and pick up after himself in more ways than one and also realizing for himself what grades are about, because if he didn't how could he tell whether or not grades are important to *him* in the long run? He has been in a protected environment all this while where *I* have been doing most of that deciding for him.

 

So many changes...I feel rather silly now about the things I naively wrote here and elsewhere when he was younger. :laugh:

[mathwonk]

If IQ measures qualities that are already obvious, like visibly quick and/or early learning and large vocabulary, I don't see what difference it makes to have it verified by an IQ test, unless you are trying to document it for admission to a program.  But in one case I know of, there were two siblings, one quick and verbal with a steel trap memory, and the other slow and dreamy and forgetful.  One was thought to have a high IQ and the other not. 

 

When testing showed both had almost exactly the same (pretty high) IQ, the parents began to search opportunities for them both that might have been limited to the first one. Thus the test gave useful information that benefited the child and affected the way they were treated.  (The two children had different types of giftedness it seems, the second one having more of the Paul Torrance "creative" giftedness, and the first more of the usual kind that teachers notice more.)

 

After learning a child has a high iQ, one useful result is knowing it will be work for the parent to keep him/her challenged.  If this is not done, they run the risk of growing up intellectually lazy, from school work being too easy. So this is important information.
Some of the most brilliant students I had in college were so lazy they could not succeed, from an almost total commitment to never working hard, presumably learned early as a part of their identity as "gifted".  These cases struck me as sad and a waste.

 

This is my immediate take on the matter, from the viewpoint of a teacher and parent, but everyone's experience is unique.

[mathwonk]

I have been thinking about this more while hauling wood.  It seemed to me that IQ tests I am familiar with measure usually ability to see patterns, learn word meanings, understand written passages, and in olden times make analogies, and do all of these quickly.  Hence I am not sure that a high IQ helps someone empathize with others, understand whom to trust, incorporate wisdom into life choices, understand body language, appreciate art or natural beauty, realize what motivates people, summon courage, exhibit tenacity, control anger and frustration, show gentleness, have patience, or even express oneself clearly.  Thus the qualities involved are somewhat technical, and maybe less important compared to what makes one successful and happy in life. 

 

I don't regard a high IQ as a handicap, it just may not necessarily take one very far in the long journey.  As a trivial analogy it may be like being given more money than someone else, but not necessarily knowing how to manage it well.  High IQ kids are perhaps most at an advantage in school, and life is mostly lived out of school.  There are differences I think between formal intelligence, judgment, and wisdom, not to mention character, and the latter ones are perhaps more essential.

 

I apologize if this seems silly.

[quark]

I have been thinking about this more while hauling wood.  It seemed to me that IQ tests I am familiar with measure usually ability to see patterns, learn word meanings, understand written passages, and in olden times make analogies, and do all of these quickly.  Hence I am not sure that a high IQ helps someone empathize with others, understand whom to trust, incorporate wisdom into life choices, understand body language, appreciate art or natural beauty, realize what motivates people, summon courage, exhibit tenacity, control anger and frustration, show gentleness, have patience, or even express oneself clearly.  Thus the qualities involved are somewhat technical, and maybe less important compared to what makes one successful and happy in life. 

 

I don't regard a high IQ as a handicap, it just may not necessarily take one very far in the long journey.  As a trivial analogy it may be like being given more money than someone else, but not necessarily knowing how to manage it well.  High IQ kids are perhaps most at an advantage in school, and life is mostly lived out of school.  There are differences I think between formal intelligence, judgment, and wisdom, not to mention character, and the latter ones are perhaps more essential.

 

I apologize if this seems silly.

 

Mathwonk, I don't think this is silly at all but as always, there are exceptions. The case of old souls come to mind and you have to have one to know how debilitating some situations can be on these children. The child who reads body language easily, the child who has an ability to see patterns in things others often miss, the child who stops in the middle of the road while crossing to gaze in wonder at the sunset overhead and giving his mom a heart attack in the process. Sorry, this is not because I want to brag but these are things I don't see much in discussions about giftedness. Why isn't there a scale for niceness or empathy? Why don't people talk about how nice their children are vs about how intense or how smart or how willful or how oppositional? I see many instances of people exclaiming in pride about how their children argued with teachers or older figures of authority but what about the child who takes the respectful approach through gentleness? (I am only thinking aloud and wondering here, not ranting).

 

Sometimes, that child could be crippled by a very strong sense of empathy and sensual and emotional overexcitabilities might make a classroom situation a nightmare for those very reasons, not just the intellectual giftedness. These children have a sense of fairness/ justice that can sometimes be so painful to observe from the sidelines, knowing you can't do anything but hold them (because telling them it will be ok? Nope, the world often proves that it will not be okay but only become worse). Again, not ranting...but there are those kids, we just don't discuss them as often I think.

[Dmmetler]

And actually, it does come in more in context with humanities-it's one reason why programs like Athena's Academy and Online G3, which tend to handle those sensitive kids with a lot of gentleness while still getting their higher level content and level of discussion that they need. I suspect it comes in less here because, honestly, while homeschooling that's been easier to accommodate-I can give DD outlets for her emotional OEs, pick and choose what is appropriate to her at the time, and just let her be herself.

 

I think one reason academics and intensity gets a lot of focus here is because there aren't many places that it's safe for parents of intense kids to talk about that academic intensity-and this is.

 

Or, at least, usually is. I admit to not feeling terribly safe here the last few days

[deerforest]

YES!! This is my DD. Her intensity is in her empathy, kindness, and sensitivity. Some days it is so amazingly beautiful, and some days it is heart breaking. To be honest, this is why we pursued testing. We wanted to understand if she needed extra help coping with things, and she did. 

 

One of the reasons DD doesn't want to go to school or even participate in homeschool classes is because of how other students treat each other and the teachers. She has such a deep-seated sense of justice and fairness. It causes her true emotional and physical pain when she sees that violated. She has difficulty with books and movies because she feels their pain. She sometimes has huge existential breakdowns because she can't save the world and it immobilizes her. She is also the best gift-giver. She has already started making gifts for friends and family for the holidays. She asked how she could earn extra allowance so she can buy some supplies for gifts for me and DH! Animals, younger children, and adults adore her. Her same-age peers don't understand her quite as well, nor she them. She has a very small core group of friends with whom she feels truly safe to share her true self.

 

I've worked really hard with her, and we've come so far. She just started volunteering at a preschool a couple hours a week, and I think that's going to do wonders for her soul.

 

This is absolutely her gift and burden.

[8filltheheart]

My 19 yos, 16 yod, and 13 yod are all very tender souls.  Our 19 yr old can calm his older brother out of his fits in a way no one else can.  He is starting to talk about priesthood after his PhD....which is definitely no surprise to me.  My 16 yr old is incredibly sensitive and scrupulous.  My 13 yod is an extreme introvert.  I often wonder what is going on behind her big blue eyes.  :)  She seems like an avg student if you just look at her academics, but she is an incredibly creative young lady and she is currently writing a novel which floors me every time I read a section.  She is an incredibly gifted fiction writer.  (Her academic writing, otoh, makes me cringe!)

 

My other kids are just your typical go with the flow kind of people.

 

[ebunny]

 

I think one reason academics and intensity gets a lot of focus here is because there aren't many places that it's safe for parents of intense kids to talk about that academic intensity-and this is.

 

Or, at least, usually is. I admit to not feeling terribly safe here the last few days

 

I don't see why not? I admit I'm a natura; skeptic, and tend to question/challenge the status quo.

 

But, most of the posts on this forum (ALB) are overwhlemingly in favor of sharing about (general) your gifted child.

 

This is just one thread that questions the premises beneath the High IQ concept. To my knowledge, no one has questioned your DD's/or anyone other childs achievements or challenged (general) your parenting. Everyone is extremely supportive. Add to it that members here almost exclusively comprise of residents from the U.S., which makes it mono-cultural in a way.

 

If the rarely expressed opposing and diverse perspectives make you feel unsafe..I really have no response to that..

 

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

 

But, most of the posts on this forum (ALB) are overwhlemingly in favor of sharing about (general) your gifted child.

 

This is just one thread that questions the premises beneath the High IQ concept. To my knowledge, no one has questioned your DD's/or anyone other childs achievements or challenged (general) your parenting. Everyone is extremely supportive. Add to it that members here almost exclusively comprise of residents from the U.S., which makes it mono-cultural in a way...

:iagree:

Anyone can say their child or children are gifted back home and no one bothers :)

I am reading this article "American Culture and the Gifted" and this quote from the conclusion might be why parents here end up deflecting to private schools and homeschooling.

 

" The preoccupation with conformity to a broad middle, with middling down, is a long-standing one in our culture, and it has entered the ethos of public schools. When norms for performance are established in that way, the gifted are deviants. When, however, the expectations for learning and achievement of the broader school population are raised, we may expect a large improvement in the schooling and satisfaction of the most able. Until the broader norms of schooling reward effort and achievement, the most and least able will suffer together"

[Arcadia]

 Why isn't there a scale for niceness or empathy? Why don't people talk about how nice their children are vs about how intense or how smart or how willful or how oppositional? I see many instances of people exclaiming in pride about how their children argued with teachers or older figures of authority but what about the child who takes the respectful approach through gentleness? (I am only thinking aloud and wondering here, not ranting).

 

:iagree: Lots of nice kids held open doors for elders though at the malls as well letting others have a seat when all were used up :) Their faces light up even brighter when people acknowledge with a smile or a thank you.

 

.  Thus the qualities involved are somewhat technical, and maybe less important compared to what makes one successful and happy in life. 

 

High IQ kids are perhaps most at an advantage in school, and life is mostly lived out of school. 

 

Depends on what kind of school you go to.  There were plenty of "Queen Bee" people in the 1st-6th and 7th-10th city/urban schools I went to.  It made Lord of the Flies an easy read. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

I don't see why not? I admit I'm a natura; skeptic, and tend to question/challenge the status quo.

 

But, most of the posts on this forum (ALB) are overwhlemingly in favor of sharing about (general) your gifted child.

 

This is just one thread that questions the premises beneath the High IQ concept. To my knowledge, no one has questioned your DD's/or anyone other childs achievements or challenged (general) your parenting. Everyone is extremely supportive. Add to it that members here almost exclusively comprise of residents from the U.S., which makes it mono-cultural in a way.

 

If the rarely expressed opposing and diverse perspectives make you feel unsafe..I really have no response to that..

These threads push all kinds of emotional buttons for me. I'd be the first to admit that IQ testing has flaws, and that a single number is woefully inadequate to capture the complicated realities of intellectual gifts. (If you saw my IQ you'd never guess I can struggle with basic arithmetic.) That said, high IQ doesn't exactly feel like a "concept" when you spent your whole childhood feeling like an outsider because of a lack of intellectual peers. IQ feels pretty darn real to me. Questioning the "underlying premises" can feel like a denial of my reality.

 

I'm just trying to explain why these threads can feel hostile, not trying to derail the discussion.

[ebunny]

These threads push all kinds of emotional buttons for me. I'd be the first to admit that IQ testing has flaws, and that a single number is woefully inadequate to capture the complicated realities of intellectual gifts. (If you saw my IQ you'd never guess I can struggle with basic arithmetic.) That said, high IQ doesn't exactly feel like a "concept" when you spent your whole childhood feeling like an outsider because of a lack of intellectual peers. IQ feels pretty darn real to me. Questioning the "underlying premises" can feel like a denial of my reality.

 

I'm just trying to explain why these threads can feel hostile, not trying to derail the discussion

 

Denial of reality? Hostile?

 

fwiw, hostility goes both ways when views(such as mine) are implicitly suppressed, by calling my posts hostile or suggesting that my PoV has created an unsafe environment.

 

The majority of voices of this forum are extremely vocal about their gifted children and receive enormous amount of support.

It befuddles me that a few opposing perspectives can prompt words like 'unsafe', 'hostile' and 'denial of reality' from parents (such as you and dmmetler) who already have exceptional children.

 

btw..IQ is a concept. It is not a law (like the law of gravity). nor is there mutual agreement, even within the gifted circles, on the definition of giftedness and 'high IQ'.

 

 

[8filltheheart]

These threads push all kinds of emotional buttons for me. I'd be the first to admit that IQ testing has flaws, and that a single number is woefully inadequate to capture the complicated realities of intellectual gifts. (If you saw my IQ you'd never guess I can struggle with basic arithmetic.) That said, high IQ doesn't exactly feel like a "concept" when you spent your whole childhood feeling like an outsider because of a lack of intellectual peers. IQ feels pretty darn real to me. Questioning the "underlying premises" can feel like a denial of my reality.

 

I'm just trying to explain why these threads can feel hostile, not trying to derail the discussion.

But then isn't it equally denying the reality of those with high IQs if they have different experiences and opinions? Dialogue that only affirms a single viewpoint is very rarely real or meaningful.

 

Have people been suggesting that IQ is NOT a factor that significantly impacts a person's life or have they been suggesting that solely by itself IQ isn't a good metric? Just like most things, it takes the whole person to have the image of the individual reality. My ds's life is one of massive struggles. Is it due to his IQ? No. But that is actually the point.

[lewelma]

Well, I for one have felt a bit misunderstood but it sounds like that is because I'm not explaining myself well.  I'm using this board to relax from a crazy busy time with both my older son and all the kids I tutor because the Mock exams are this week and next, and my thinking appears to be quite muddled based on how some of you have read my posts.  :tongue_smilie: Hope it isn't when I'm tutoring! :huh:

 

I am really stuck between extremes over here especially in math.  I have my older who is off the chart and then I have all the kids I tutor.  And I cannot but see the effects of some sort of raw intelligence in this massive divergence of paths. Now, I have no strong feelings about an actual IQ number, clearly it is imperfect, but what I do find interesting is thinking about the subtests and what they say about all these kids I work with.  I have kids who present with: poor attention, poor processing speed, poor working memory, poor spatial skills which in some way in my eyes (I'm being really careful here) correlates to performance in maths.  Now obviously there is more going on than just intelligence, and that is where I come in.  People don't pay me the big bucks to be a homework helper.  I identify each kid's skills and use them to my advantage and design a separate year-long program to remediate the situation. And a big part of my work is to *convince* the kids that they can do maths, that they are not stupid, that they have strengths and weaknesses and that we can use their strengths to shore up their weaknesses. 

 

But I walked away from the other thread feeling like a high intelligence was not a big deal or even something to avoid. It sounds like I probably mistook what was being said, but the tone was generally negative which got me to thinking about these kids I tutor. School is about academics. Yes it is about other stuff too, but in the end it is *for* learning.  And these kids can't learn easily.  It affects their sense of self.  They cut.  They bully. They have anxiety.  These things are related to this inability to learn.  Sure there is other stuff going on, but ALL the kids who come to me tell me that they think they are dumb.  What if I am stupid? they whisper.  What will the teacher think if I fail?  One kid texted me "It looks like I didn't study at all, and I look really stupid.  It makes me look incompetent and slack." These kids try; they just fail.  Over and over.  And it is related in some way to intelligence.  

 

So I don't really care how you measure it or if you measure it, but I think the subtests hint at skills that my tutor kids lack that I need to train them to overcome. I have found the IQ test design to be useful in my work which is why I don't dismiss it.

 

 

[lewelma]

These threads push all kinds of emotional buttons for me. I'd be the first to admit that IQ testing has flaws, and that a single number is woefully inadequate to capture the complicated realities of intellectual gifts. (If you saw my IQ you'd never guess I can struggle with basic arithmetic.) That said, high IQ doesn't exactly feel like a "concept" when you spent your whole childhood feeling like an outsider because of a lack of intellectual peers. IQ feels pretty darn real to me. Questioning the "underlying premises" can feel like a denial of my reality.

:grouphug:

 

 

I admit to not feeling terribly safe here the last few days

 

 

And  :grouphug: to you too. 

[lewelma]

This.

 

 It can feel at times like I should be doing more for him, because you read about these kids not being supported, but he just isn't into academics. It is a weird place to be, especially on this board.  I enjoy reading about all of the other GT kids doing amazing things, but I do start to wonder if I screwed this up somehow, or if I'm "wasting his gift." 

 

He sounds like my younger.  I've tried to post about my little boy here, but it is just so difficult to seek any guidance or explain him in a way that does him justice.  He is just a happy, well-adjusted, bright boy, who would rather read than do any academics at all.  He is a charmer and people of all ages gravitate to him.  Mathwonk clearly has met him because he described him in his previous post:

 

 

Can empathize with others, understand whom to trust, incorporate wisdom into life choices, understand body language, appreciate art or natural beauty, realize what motivates people, summon courage, exhibit tenacity, control anger and frustration, show gentleness, have patience, or even express oneself clearly

 

 

Minus the tenacity part.  :tongue_smilie: 

 

So why don't we start some threads, celebrating our kids!  

[quark]

:iagree: Lots of nice kids held open doors for elders though at the malls as well letting others have a seat when all were used up :) Their faces light up even brighter when people acknowledge with a smile or a thank you.

 

I don't want to discount this...and I do understand this might be the first example that came to your mind. I think it's wonderful that children do this! What I am referring to is actually, how do I say it, different? More extreme? I've rarely seen anyone easily describe what I have observed in just a few words. It's beyond opening doors or giving up a seat, which I would think of as automatic things to try to learn to do in any society (and lovely that children are doing it).

 

I see a few posters here describing what I'm trying to say. There was a mention of this type of characteristic in the book by Miraca Gross and it made me suddenly tear up when I read it the first time because to have someone acknowledge that it could really affect the child's life, wow, I just couldn't hold back the tears because she nailed it. I can't find that quote now...but at the time I read it, to have someone understand that exact feeling and put it into words, it was overwhelming to see that in print after so many years of thinking there is something wrong with a person who carries this burden/ gift with them and can't disassociate themselves from it. It bothered me for so long...how is it that others didn't have it, or didn't feel it, or could "switch it off" much more easily? Or how could some people just ignore it and carry on, and then I read it in her book and it made more sense to me.

 

There's a quote by Pearl S Buck about creativity, especially the part in bold, that comes close:

“The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this: A human creature born abnormally, inhumanly sensitive. To him... a touch is a blow, a sound is a noise, a misfortune is a tragedy, a joy is an ecstasy, a friend is a lover, a lover is a god, and failure is death. Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create, create, create -- so that without the creating of music or poetry or books or buildings or something of meaning, his very breath is cut off from him. He must create, must pour out creation. By some strange, unknown, inward urgency he is not really alive unless he is creating.â€

 

Her quote does make it sound like intensity and I guess you could say it is a form of that.

[quark]

One more sample description that comes close (should have thought to check Myers Briggs earlier! :tongue_smilie: ).

[lewelma]

ETA: we were posting at the same time.  Will go read your link.

 

I'm not sure it is exactly what you are talking about, but isn't that what EQ is supposed to describe. This seems to be what both Mathwonk and 8fill are talking about.

 

1. Self-awareness:

• Emotional awareness. Your ability to recognize your own emotions and their effects.
• Self-confidence. Sureness about your self-worth and capabilities.

2. Self-regulation. 

• Self-control. Managing disruptive impulses.
• Trustworthiness. Maintaining standards of honesty and integrity.
• Conscientiousness. Taking responsibility for your own performance.
• Adaptability. Handling change with flexibility.
• Innovation. Being open to new ideas.

3. Motivation.

• Achievement drive. Your constant striving to improve or to meet a standard of excellence.
• Commitment. Aligning with the goals of the group or organization.
• Initiative. Readying yourself to act on opportunities.
• Optimism. Pursuing goals persistently despite obstacles and setbacks.

4. Empathy.:

• Service orientation. Anticipating, recognizing and meeting others' needs.
• Developing others. Sensing what others need to progress and bolstering their abilities.
• Leveraging diversity. Cultivating opportunities through diverse people.
• Political awareness. Reading a group’s emotional currents and power relationships.
• Understanding others. Discerning the feelings behind the needs and wants of others.

5. Social skills. :

• Influence. Wielding effective persuasion tactics.
• Communication. Sending clear messages.
• Leadership. Inspiring and guiding groups and people.
• Change catalyst. Initiating or managing change.
• Conflict management. Understanding, negotiating and resolving disagreements.
• Building bonds. Nurturing instrumental relationships.
• Collaboration and cooperation. Working with others toward shared goals.
• Team capabilities. Creating group synergy in pursuing collective goals.

 

I might just print this and put it on my frig, to remind me what the end goal is for my kids!

[kiwik]

I'm reading the discussion here with great interest.

 

IQ matters, clearly, but it is never more than one piece of the equation. I came from a large family with obviously high IQ's, though most of us were never tested; it came out in things like standardized testing. How far IQ took a person though depended on other characteristics. Anxiety, depression, low processing speed, dyslexia, ADHD...these were all limiting factors.

In my family too. But perhaps if someone had paid some attention to the needs of gifted kids in our family there would have been less anxiety. I heard it said often as a kid 'it doesn't matter what you do with the bright ones or what school the go to - they will take care of themselves'. This led to average kids having great care taken over their school placement and gifted kids just sent wherever was easiest. If i and others hadn't thought we had to try not to use up resources or had the differences in the way we thought explained we may not have ended up so defeated, depressed and switched off.

[kiwik]

:iagree:

Anyone can say their child or children are gifted back home and no one bothers :)

I am reading this article "American Culture and the Gifted" and this quote from the conclusion might be why parents here end up deflecting to private schools and homeschooling.

 

" The preoccupation with conformity to a broad middle, with middling down, is a long-standing one in our culture, and it has entered the ethos of public schools. When norms for performance are established in that way, the gifted are deviants. When, however, the expectations for learning and achievement of the broader school population are raised, we may expect a large improvement in the schooling and satisfaction of the most able. Until the broader norms of schooling reward effort and achievement, the most and least able will suffer together"

In New Zealand those of us with very gifted kids keep very quiet. There is a reason I post on US boards. The NZ ones are simply to small to maintain anonymity.

[quark]

Ruth, is that from Psych Central? :001_smile: I was looking for a definition of EQ to quote here and ran into all these listed on that site too, lol. Okay, let me quote their intro paragraphs here:
 

For most people, emotional intelligence (EQ) is more important than one’s intelligence (IQ) in attaining success in their lives and careers. As individuals our success and the success of the profession today depend on our ability to read other people’s signals and react appropriately to them. Therefore, each one of us must develop the mature emotional intelligence skills required to better understand, empathize and negotiate with other people — particularly as the economy has become more global. Otherwise, success will elude us in our lives and careers.

 

“Your EQ is the level of your ability to understand other people, what motivates them and how to work cooperatively with them,†says Howard Gardner, the influential Harvard theorist. Five major categories of emotional intelligence skills are recognized by researchers in this area.

 

I think we mostly see EQ as positive correct? You can use it like a tool. Yes, I would have a goal for my child to have high EQ. The part in bold even seems to say it's something that can be developed from scratch.

 

The empathy I am referring to, not so much. It's very much a part of your personality and difficult to switch off. It's you. It can be overwhelmingly positive but also overwhelmingly negative and not something I might have as a goal for my kid. I think people can be in extreme situations where they will have no choice but to switch it off just in order to be able to survive (but I've also heard of people who would rather give away their single morsel of bread than to watch someone else starve). In regular situations, you are stuck with it. And then I guess life happens and you learn to adapt somehow if you don't have the very extreme form. I think because of where I live, where are there are so many kids with high IQ and kids on various points of the spectrum, I see many varieties and intensities of empathy and lack of empathy and I just feel like protecting all of these kids. (Another way to think of the extreme empathy is like pregnancy hormones on steroids, only you are not pregnant and you have this since childhood...I remember how difficult it was for me to read the newspapers when I was pregnant and also just after having DS, while those hormones were still in my system).

 

I don't know why I mentioned this...starting to feel like I'm talking about this a tad too much, sorry. :tongue_smilie: Miraca Gross mentioned it in the context of high IQ and I found that fascinating. She said something to the effect that high IQ children who have this piece in their lives are X and I forget what X was..something like old soul but I don't remember if that's the word she used (I read this about 4-5 years ago). So frustrating that I can't find her quote but I am quite sure it was in her book, Exceptionally Gifted Children. She didn't make it sound extremely positive or negative but it was a relief to me that someone had studied it.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Well, I for one have felt a bit misunderstood but it sounds like that is because I'm not explaining myself well.  I'm using this board to relax from a crazy busy time with both my older son and all the kids I tutor because the Mock exams are this week and next, and my thinking appears to be quite muddled based on how some of you have read my posts.  :tongue_smilie: Hope it isn't when I'm tutoring! :huh:

 

I am really stuck between extremes over here especially in math.  I have my older who is off the chart and then I have all the kids I tutor.  And I cannot but see the effects of some sort of raw intelligence in this massive divergence of paths. Now, I have no strong feelings about an actual IQ number, clearly it is imperfect, but what I do find interesting is thinking about the subtests and what they say about all these kids I work with.  I have kids who present with: poor attention, poor processing speed, poor working memory, poor spatial skills which in some way in my eyes (I'm being really careful here) correlates to performance in maths.  Now obviously there is more going on than just intelligence, and that is where I come in.  People don't pay me the big bucks to be a homework helper.  I identify each kid's skills and use them to my advantage and design a separate year-long program to remediate the situation. And a big part of my work is to *convince* the kids that they can do maths, that they are not stupid, that they have strengths and weaknesses and that we can use their strengths to shore up their weaknesses. 

 

But I walked away from the other thread feeling like a high intelligence was not a big deal or even something to avoid. It sounds like I probably mistook what was being said, but the tone was generally negative which got me to thinking about these kids I tutor. School is about academics. Yes it is about other stuff too, but in the end it is *for* learning.  And these kids can't learn easily.  It affects their sense of self.  They cut.  They bully. They have anxiety.  These things are related to this inability to learn.  Sure there is other stuff going on, but ALL the kids who come to me tell me that they think they are dumb.  What if I am stupid? they whisper.  What will the teacher think if I fail?  One kid texted me "It looks like I didn't study at all, and I look really stupid.  It makes me look incompetent and slack." These kids try; they just fail.  Over and over.  And it is related in some way to intelligence.  

 

So I don't really care how you measure it or if you measure it, but I think the subtests hint at skills that my tutor kids lack that I need to train them to overcome. I have found the IQ test design to be useful in my work which is why I don't dismiss it.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you talking about the other end of the spectrum? I don't remember seeing any posters wishing their children had an IQ that put them in a position to be struggling over and over with math and repeated failures in life, with nary a glimmer of success. There is a middle ground. There are many happy, successful people of average intelligence to whom high intelligence is of no concern. For them, high intelligence truly is no big deal. They are intelligent enough. I would even go so far as to say there are many people with lower than average intelligence who lead happy lives and are productive members of society. 

 

It sounds like you are working with a group of kids that have been dealt a rough hand on many levels. My heart goes out to them and my respect to you for working with them. It sounds like with their needs and your personality and style of teaching that working within an IQ subtest framework is beneficial. It's hard to argue with success. 

 

That said, much of what you describe sounds remarkably similar to what many of us do with homeschooling. We find strengths and shore up weaknesses. Probably no two of us go about it in the same way. I cannot imagine keeping IQ subtests in mind when working with a student. It's just not my style. 

 

I hope all of us can continue to share our experiences and viewpoints without feeling the need to censor our thoughts or post trigger warnings. I have a feeling there are lurkers who never post or don't post often because their accelerated learners don't fit the type so often seen here or because their views of high intelligence vary from those most often expressed. Better that we all feel a bit uncomfortable at times, than to have a situation where some never feel at ease to post at all for fear of offending. 

[Arcadia]

Quark,

 

I agree that emotional intelligence and empathy is different. I am thankful I am not born an empath. Volunteer work is already emotionally draining at normal levels of empathy. I can cry reading news headlines of fatal accidents, that is "bad enough" for me.

 

I did find this 1999 article that Miraca Gross wrote which is really sad.

"It is time both the American and Australian communities reviewed and analyzed, with honesty and rigor, their attitudes to childhood precocity. Both nations abhor racial, social and religious bias. We teach our children that every member of our society has the Right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" regardless of race, color or creed. Yet we do hold a pervasive, insidious bias when it comes to talent development. All gifts are equal, we seem to say, but some gifts are more equal than others.

 

We recognize that for a child with unusual sporting or athletic ability who longs to fulfill her potential, "the pursuit of happiness" implicitly involves her right to strive to develop her talent to the fullest possible extent. Our bias becomes apparent, however, when the child's precocity is sited in the cognitive domain. Intellectually gifted young children are much less acceptable to the general and educational community than are their physically gifted age-peers, and their efforts to develop their talents are too often greeted with apathy, lack of understanding, or open hostility. It is time that we acknowledged and addressed this bias so that all our small poppies may lift their heads to the sky."

 

It is possible for emotional intelligence to be cultivated.

 

Everyone in my home is still awake :p :)

[lewelma]

Ah Quark, I know what you are talking about.  My younger boy struggled with this. There came a point where I started looking into social anxiety disorder because he was so capable of seeing and experiencing other's emotions that he began to fear being near others.  His sensing was so great that it was incapacitating.  It was so painful to watch.  But slowly it started to get better, and by about the age of 8 he seemed to be more 'normal'.  He was still experiencing this incredible human input of emotions and motives, but one day he told me about his "emotional shield."  Apparently, he was able to discover a method of protection of his sense of self.  It appears to be some sort of compartmentalization where he is able to view these emotions coming in separately from his own thoughts.  Not quite sure how to describe it, but he is able to wield it very effectively.  And he discovered and developed this skill on his own.  This boy has unreal amount of insight, and it is so very hard to describe and be believed.  

 

[Arcadia]

In New Zealand those of us with very gifted kids keep very quiet. There is a reason I post on US boards. The NZ ones are simply to small to maintain anonymity.

:grouphug:

My country and yours have about the same population but my country's population density is a lot higher. Also people probably just treat it as typical parents/grandparents bragging and so aren't bothered by it. Tuition is also a crazy industry there. People are a lot more concern about academic grades than iq scores.

 

""Tuition has morphed into this huge industry to keep one's child ahead of the rest," said Prof Tan, who is doing a study on the perception of tuition. "Many tutors teach ahead of the school curriculum, so that the child has a competitive edge. Even students in the Gifted Education Programme have tuition.""

[lewelma]

 

I hope all of us can continue to share our experiences and viewpoints without feeling the need to censor our thoughts or post trigger warnings. I have a feeling there are lurkers who never post or don't post often because their accelerated learners don't fit the type so often seen here or because their views of high intelligence vary from those most often expressed. Better that we all feel a bit uncomfortable at times, than to have a situation where some never feel at ease to post at all for fear of offending. 

I agree.  When I have that initial feeling of being attacked, I always try to assume the best in the other posters.  I assume that I was misunderstood, or the other person just has a more abrupt posting style, or someone is having a bad day.  There are just not that many bad apples on the board.  

 

The IQ subtests give me a very quick starting point to privately consider during my first few hours with a new kid. People often think of math as 'I'm bad at algebra' or 'I'm bad at geometry,' but that is definitely NOT the way it works.  Success is more related to different types of thinking skills and deficiencies.  Metacognition is very important to teach these kids.  They need to understand how their minds work so that they can overcome their difficulties.  

[Arcadia]

Apparently, he was able to discover a method of protection of his sense of self. It appears to be some sort of compartmentalization where he is able to view these emotions coming in separately from his own thoughts.

If he ever want to do his community service on the suicide crisis helpline or domestic violence helpline, or helping long term ICU families, this skill would come in very useful.

 

ETA:

Which IQ subtest correlates with math? So far the "bad" math kids that I tutored for free has confidence issues rather than skills issues. Most can improve fast with just more drill and some encouragement. Comically more guys than girls and I only do it as favor to friends.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

The IQ subtests give me a very quick starting point to privately consider during my first few hours with a new kid. People often think of math as 'I'm bad at algebra' or 'I'm bad at geometry,' but that is definitely NOT the way it works. Success is more related to different types of thinking skills and deficiencies. Metacognition is very important to teach these kids. They need to understand how their minds work so that they can overcome their difficulties.

Metacognition. At long last, common ground. ;) My daughter and I spend vast quantities of time discussing and contemplating metacognition, just not in the same way you do. Very different approaches, but same overriding theory - thinking about thinking. :)

[lewelma]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you talking about the other end of the spectrum?

 

Thinking about this some more, I'm not so sure.  I think I am working more with Learning Disabilities.  The kids I work with are trying to stay in the main math stream, so when they work with me, I'm creating a separate program that runs concurrently with their school class.  This means that they are doing 2 years math in 1 year, or even 3 years in 1.  There is no way that a slow kid could accelerate like this. Typically for these kids, one or two intellectual skills are missing that I have to find a way around, which is why thinking in terms of subtests is so effective.  Many people who have their kids take an IQ test find the subtests scores the most important rather than the global number because they explain why somethings are easy and some are not.  This is what I found with my older boy that I posted about upstream.  

 

So these kids come to me thinking they are just stupid, but I help them to understand that they just have a single deficiency that is causing the problem.  And sure they pulled the short straw, but we can fix it.