Saddlemomma Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 DD is an avid reader. She'll polish off a 450-pp book in two days. She just finished reading the King Raven Trilogy by Lawhead in a week. So, I've always felt comfortable using a lit-based curriculum. DD has always said she's liked our curricula and has done well with it. We started 7th grade on 8/17. I've cobbled together a curriculum for history based upon TOG4 & Wayfarers books, using a more CM schedule. Our science is lit-based using Quark Chronicles Botany; EM's Botany in 8 Lessons; books on medicinal herbs; and other various plant books. All the books not available in our library were purchased used in advance. We are beginning our 3rd week. DD comes to me this weekend and says she has always had a hard time retaining info from non-fiction books because she either speeds through them because they bore her or she zones out while reading them. On the other hand, she eats fiction up like cake and can remember minute details from that genre. OTOH, she tells me she LOVES documentaries on non-fiction and can remember much more by watching them rather than reading about that genre. W.....H.....A....T!!!!!!!!!!!! You mean to tell me we've been schooling going on 8 years and I'm just hearing this???????? I must be the worst parent ever. How did I not see this? She's always done well in her school work. There haven't been any red flags. The only thing I can think of is she has gone through some major adjustments lately. She is in the process of allergy testing now. The mood swings and all the symptoms of puberty are in full bloom, she's recently developed nearsightedness (has always had her eyes checked yearly), and we've also recently learned that her bite needs to be realigned. I'm just stunned. I haven't vented to her because she feels terribly about the whole thing (she knows how much we've spent on books each year). It won't do any good to brow-beat her and make her feel worse since I should have seen this much earlier. In any case, I now have to readjust history and science on the fly. I'm still going to have her read Quark Chronicles and the more interesting plant books like Druid's Tree Magic and Wicked Plants. Instead of doing both Lesson Levels 1 & 2, we'll stick to Level 1 for basic info and watch a plethora of docs for increased depth. For history we're switching to The Century: America's Time (free on Amazon Prime). It's a 15-part video series on Modern History in America. I'll supplement that with some of the HF I have on hand (she's been okay with those). However we'll go through The War to End All Wars together. For each documentary she'll either have to fill out a documentary journal sheet (this teaches note taking from videos) or a narration. I'll alternate these. This morning I caught her watching the first history video while she was eating breakfast before school even started. Hopefully this will work out. What says the hive? Any other suggestions? Please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors - I have to run to the allergists with her now. I'll check for advice when I get back. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 DD is an avid reader. She'll polish off a 450-pp book in two days. She just finished reading the King Raven Trilogy by Lawhead in a week. So, I've always felt comfortable using a lit-based curriculum. DD has always said she's liked our curricula and has done well with it. We started 7th grade on 8/17. I've cobbled together a curriculum for history based upon TOG4 & Wayfarers books, using a more CM schedule. Our science is lit-based using Quark Chronicles Botany; EM's Botany in 8 Lessons; books on medicinal herbs; and other various plant books. All the books not available in our library were purchased used in advance. We are beginning our 3rd week. DD comes to me this weekend and says she has always had a hard time retaining info from non-fiction books because she either speeds through them because they bore her or she zones out while reading them. On the other hand, she eats fiction up like cake and can remember minute details from that genre. OTOH, she tells me she LOVES documentaries on non-fiction and can remember much more by watching them rather than reading about that genre. W.....H.....A....T!!!!!!!!!!!! You mean to tell me we've been schooling going on 8 years and I'm just hearing this???????? I must be the worst parent ever. How did I not see this? She's always done well in her school work. There haven't been any red flags. The only thing I can think of is she has gone through some major adjustments lately. She is in the process of allergy testing now. The mood swings and all the symptoms of puberty are in full bloom, she's recently developed nearsightedness (has always had her eyes checked yearly), and we've also recently learned that her bite needs to be realigned. I'm just stunned. I haven't vented to her because she feels terribly about the whole thing (she knows how much we've spent on books each year). It won't do any good to brow-beat her and make her feel worse since I should have seen this much earlier. In any case, I now have to readjust history and science on the fly. I'm still going to have her read Quark Chronicles and the more interesting plant books like Druid's Tree Magic and Wicked Plants. Instead of doing both Lesson Levels 1 & 2, we'll stick to Level 1 for basic info and watch a plethora of docs for increased depth. For history we're switching to The Century: America's Time (free on Amazon Prime). It's a 15-part video series on Modern History in America. I'll supplement that with some of the HF I have on hand (she's been okay with those). However we'll go through The War to End All Wars together. For each documentary she'll either have to fill out a documentary journal sheet (this teaches note taking from videos) or a narration. I'll alternate these. This morning I caught her watching the first history video while she was eating breakfast before school even started. Hopefully this will work out. What says the hive? Any other suggestions? Please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors - I have to run to the allergists with her now. I'll check for advice when I get back. Thanks! I keep re-reading to find out what's so shell-shocking, why you're so upset, why you're calling yourself the worst mother ever, and why you're seeking advice. This is not an emergency. She's done well on her schoolwork and there were no red flags. What you have is a child who is now old enough to tell you some of her own preferences for her methods of study, which is a sign of growth and maturity, not a crisis. Pivot to accommodate the new information, embrace the new logic-stage learning styles, but please remember that you haven't failed your daughter by having her read lots of really good books. :) 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I also don't really see the emergency. Your dd expressed a preference. You can accommodate it in the ways you can, and in the ways you can't, well, them's the breaks. If your dd plans to go to college, she has to learn how to learn from non-fiction material. Zooming through and zoning out aren't options. I would make this a year on learning how to learn from non-fiction texts and how to take notes effectively. It's one thing to accommodate a student's preferences. It's entirely another to skip over things that students simply have to learn how to do. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Sounds normal. We have one with similar thoughts. We added a bit more hands on stuff but I didn't drop the textbook as it was just a preference and school otherwise goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I agree with TaraTheLiberator. Preference and necessary adaptations are not the same thing. It is one thing to get audiobooks for a dyslexic who otherwise would not be able to access the content of a book and completely another to have a middle school student student who is a very competent reader express a preference for not having to read non-fiction books. It sounds like she needs to be stretched and taught how to read complex, non-entertaining works in order to engage with them in an appropriate manner. Fwiw, I wouldn't drastically alter my plans. I would incorporate some more audio materials since she enjoys them. But then I would add in How to Read a Book (Mortimer Adler) and read it with her and discuss his recommendations. I would ask her to create an outline for the chpts in her non-fiction reading after she has finished that day's reading assignment. Zoning out and skimming content will not serve her well in her future. I would encourage the development of the skills you now know she is lacking. :) 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairy4tmama Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I agree, and this could also temporary phenomenon it sounds like there is a lot going on + puberty that's enough to make anyone distracted. I think adding in videos is a great a idea but I don't think I would ditch the books quite yet. Like Tara said I would see it as an opportunity to learn how to learn from nonfiction. Assign her a very small amount of reading from each non-fiction book and then ask her to narrate, write an outline, or take notes. If she is watching a video on the same topic ask her to make a Venn diagram about facts from the video and facts from the readings. You can always switch things up next year if you still feel like it's necessary! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have ADHD and tend to read whole paragraphs or pages (i.e. skimming the page) but still get the information. For non-fiction in a school setting, I had to either highlight nearly everything or copy important sentences into a notebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't give them my full attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Reading nonfiction can be difficult, and it gets more difficult the farther along in school you get. Instead of completely switching to a video based presentation, I would suggest teaching your daughter how to read and comprehend dense nonfiction text. She has been trying to do it in the same way that she reads a novel for pleasure, and that won't work anymore. FWIW, this is a well known problem on college campuses. Many, if not most, kids arrive at college not knowing how to read difficult text. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 During her ninth grade year, I had to drop the classical approach and ditch most of the books I bought for my oldest dd. She had a hard time integrating information from various sources. She is nearsighted and had a crossbite, too. LOL. We later found out she has processing issues so that was probably part of the picture. The good news is she is fine in college. I really like the idea of going through How to Read a Book. My dd developed those skills eventually but it may have helped to invest time in working on that skill earlier. I like to think of 8th grade as a perfect time for any remediation that will help in high school and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have done some of the above with my 9th grader. The program we use for history and several other subjects offers e-text or can be printed. The same program offers specific lessons on reading skills. So, I had him do those lessons once I realized we were getting into informantion that was too dense for him. I do some of the reading with him and point out details. I also have him watch video lessons that supplement what we are learning. Today we will start studying ancient Rome and I have several videos lined up to complement his readings. I would love for him to do more serious notetaking but so far he is resistant. So- one step at a time in the brave new world of high school. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Agreeing with the general consensus - if it were me, I'd thank dd for telling me about her preference, praise her growing self-awareness and understanding of her learning style, and explain that reading nonfiction is a different skill from reading fiction, and one that she will need to learn for high school and college, so now is the perfect time! And then I'd work with her on it - explicitly teach her to do it. We read a lot of nonfiction here. The more challenging stuff I read aloud and we discuss. I look for books that are very clear and well-written for dd to read on her own, and I make study guides for her. Right now she is reading Edward Dolnick's The Clockwork Universe: Isaac Newton, The Royal Society, and the Birth of the Modern World. It's ideal, it has short, vividly written chapters. She reads ~3 chapters each day and answers, in writing, the questions in her study guide. This requires that she focus on the reading - she is reading with a purpose, to be able to answer the questions - and it ensures that she doesn't zone and miss things, because she is forced to go back over the chapter if she can't answer the questions at the end. This kind of reading takes a lot longer, so you will be able to do fewer books than if she was "just" reading them, but it's really valuable. And the writing - note-taking from a nonfiction book - is a really important skill too. I tell dd it's like the transition she went through with reading - learning to read vs. reading to learn - now applied to writing - she's been learning to write, now she's writing to learn. Don't give up on nonfiction! But don't expect the same skill set to work on nonfiction and fiction reading. It's a new skill and middle school is a great time to start honing it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Reading nonfiction can be difficult, and it gets more difficult the farther along in school you get. Instead of completely switching to a video based presentation, I would suggest teaching your daughter how to read and comprehend dense nonfiction text. She has been trying to do it in the same way that she reads a novel for pleasure, and that won't work anymore. FWIW, this is a well known problem on college campuses. Many, if not most, kids arrive at college not knowing how to read difficult text. Yeah, I realize this too, that's why I had purchased and scheduled in the book "How To Read Slowly". We are reading this together and then discussing it. When this book is finished, we'll move on to "How To Read a Book". We just recently read the first chapter and it was eye-opening for DD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I wouldn't be too stunned. Most kids can't articulate learning needs until they're at least 12, probably more often when they're older. And when they're younger they don't always know there are alternatives, so they do the best they can never knowing they might be doing even better. You now have a great opportunity to help her continue to think about and take control of her own learning with this tear and 5 more ahead! Best wishes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Okay, I think I just panicked thinking about how I had everything all set for the year, and now I would need to change it. Thank you all for assuring me I didn't need to do this. I will still, however, make some adjustments. I also never showed her my frustrations because I value her input in her schooling and didn't want to make her think she couldn't share (my DH got my initial reaction--not DD). On the way home from the allergist, I asked DD how the history video went (I purposely chose the first episode knowing it was just a review of what we've read so far from Human Odyssey 3.). She told me she really liked it. Then she explained that the images were what made all the difference for her. She could easily recall images and process them better than non-fiction books. In fiction, she could use her imagination to place herself into the book; creating images that way. She couldn't do this as easily with non-fiction. This greatly relieved me because now I know that's pretty normal. I just jumped the gun thinking there was some learning disability at play that I had totally missed. (I'm always so worried I'm not doing something right or missing something important.) I plan now to continue with the more important core non-fiction books, such as Human Odyssey, The War to End All Wars, The Dream of Freedom, etc., and go through them more slowly to make sure she's getting & retaining the info. However, I will also continue to schedule the videos I mentioned earlier as review. Accountability will come in the form of narrations and research of something of particular interest resulting in a report of that interesting event. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGirlAcademy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I had very similar issues with my dd. she reads tons of nonfiction and at super speed. Glasses and braces on her teeth. She, herself have realized some of the downfalls of super sonic reading. What I have done with her with her nonfiction material is having her learn how to do Cornell notes. There has been a huge jump in retaining the info; plus, it has given her a skill that she can use in high school and college. It not super time consuming and adds in review. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I had very similar issues with my dd. she reads tons of nonfiction and at super speed. Glasses and braces on her teeth. She, herself have realized some of the downfalls of super sonic reading. What I have done with her with her nonfiction material is having her learn how to do Cornell notes. There has been a huge jump in retaining the info; plus, it has given her a skill that she can use in high school and college. It not super time consuming and adds in review. Is there a particular resource you used to teach her this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Okay, I think I just panicked thinking about how I had everything all set for the year, and now I would need to change it. Thank you all for assuring me I didn't need to do this. I will still, however, make some adjustments. I also never showed her my frustrations because I value her input in her schooling and didn't want to make her think she couldn't share (my DH got my initial reaction--not DD). On the way home from the allergist, I asked DD how the history video went (I purposely chose the first episode knowing it was just a review of what we've read so far from Human Odyssey 3.). She told me she really liked it. Then she explained that the images were what made all the difference for her. She could easily recall images and process them better than non-fiction books. In fiction, she could use her imagination to place herself into the book; creating images that way. She couldn't do this as easily with non-fiction. This greatly relieved me because now I know that's pretty normal. I just jumped the gun thinking there was some learning disability at play that I had totally missed. (I'm always so worried I'm not doing something right or missing something important.) I plan now to continue with the more important core non-fiction books, such as Human Odyssey, The War to End All Wars, The Dream of Freedom, etc., and go through them more slowly to make sure she's getting & retaining the info. However, I will also continue to schedule the videos I mentioned earlier as review. Accountability will come in the form of narrations and research of something of particular interest resulting in a report of that interesting event. I think I may process similarly to your dd. Love to read fiction, avid reader especially as a kid, retain it, but I could never learn well from a textbook. Bla bla bla zzzzzzz. Fortunately I can remember everything from a lecture, so in school I just didn't read the darn textbooks and did fine. Or if the teacher highlighted a section of the text that wasn't lectured on, I'd make sure to read that section, but I didn't regularly read the text unless I had to. I think your dd might be on to something with the images. I've found myself reading more non-fiction as an adult, and really getting a lot out of it. But it's narrative non-fiction that I can immerse myself in. It's not so much the genre as being able to get into the book and into its world. Ask her if it's all non-fiction that's a problem, or only dry, text-booky types. You may be able to keep some of your reading list without any worry... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 What I have done with her with her nonfiction material is having her learn how to do Cornell notes. There has been a huge jump in retaining the info; plus, it has given her a skill that she can use in high school and college. It not super time consuming and adds in review. This is another very good idea. I did teach my kids how to take notes from a text - because at some point, even if it's not your preferred mode of input, it may be necessary to figure out how to do this and get the info to stick in your head... I usually picked one subject for this with one text, so it didn't become overwhelming/tedious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's really common for bookworms to have trouble with STEM books because they are so dense and unskimmable that their reading skills for literature don't apply at all. The great thing about bookworms is that they usually have a tremendous vocabulary, and this is extremely helpful in reading, say, science books. The difficulty is that they are accustomed to being entertained in reading, and this is not often the case in STEM books. However, they must be learned, and the key, as you have heard already and know as well, is to read very slowly. The other key, and I can't possibly emphasize this enough, is to read a sentence, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS before going on. Science and math comprehension require pondering in order to internalize the information. Also, think about how to apply it. It's not enough to be able to follow what someone else did in applying it. You have to be able to do it yourself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's really common for bookworms to have trouble with STEM books because they are so dense and unskimmable that their reading skills for literature don't apply at all. The great thing about bookworms is that they usually have a tremendous vocabulary, and this is extremely helpful in reading, say, science books. The difficulty is that they are accustomed to being entertained in reading, and this is not often the case in STEM books. However, they must be learned, and the key, as you have heard already and know as well, is to read very slowly. The other key, and I can't possibly emphasize this enough, is to read a sentence, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS before going on. Science and math comprehension require pondering in order to internalize the information. Also, think about how to apply it. It's not enough to be able to follow what someone else did in applying it. You have to be able to do it yourself. You're absolutely right with the bolded. DD has a great vocabulary, and if she doesn't know a word, she can usually figure it out from the context of the sentence. So vocab isn't the issue. She's acing the ACT/SAT Questions of the Day with regards to language arts. I believe you hit the nail on the head with the entertainment aspect in non-fiction. She can't seem to create the images she refers to for retention if the material isn't in a story-type narrative as mentioned by Matryoshka earlier. We've been reading the Christian Heroes: Then and Now series for our church history readings for the past few years. She LOVES them and can regurgitate facts about all of them. However, the books are in a historical fiction narrative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 She might like the Tiner books about chemistry and maybe physics. They have a 'history of science' element to them that teaches science in a story-like way. But, and I can't possibly stress this enough, she has to learn to read science also. Slowly, with reflection, and with imagining application of it mathematically. Also, I was like this, and one of the things that helped me the most was imagining things on the molecular level. I could imagine a molecule of water--OK it's polar, and it's bent, and what is going to happen when it meets a molecule that is nonpolar? Well, it's not going to want to stick. OK, this alcohol is polar, so they will mix. This fat is not, so they won't. Stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Take a look at the CK12 online textbooks. They have a block of text and then include a related video. Many also have workbooks to accompany them so you can check recall. I'm similar to Matroyshka and found them to be an excellent resource for Trinqueta. Bozeman Science is also a great source of short video taped lectures to accompany a textbook. Both of these are secular, but you can probably use a large chunk of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Take a look at the CK12 online textbooks. They have a block of text and then include a related video. Many also have workbooks to accompany them so you can check recall. I'm similar to Matroyshka and found them to be an excellent resource for Trinqueta. Bozeman Science is also a great source of short video taped lectures to accompany a textbook. Both of these are secular, but you can probably use a large chunk of them. We have a CK12 account. In fact, last year when we studied Mammals, I had purchased a used copy of the Prentice to Hall Explorers book on Animals. DD hated that! She said it was too simple and boring. So, I built a Mammals flexbook on CK12 using the 9th-12th grade Biology and Life texts. That's why her whole statement the other day perplexed me. Maybe, however, it was the fact that the text was broken up by the videos that kept it interesting and attainable for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I'm surprised that no one has linked Ruth's excellent post(s) on reading non-fiction yet...good stuff there. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 She might like the Tiner books about chemistry and maybe physics. They have a 'history of science' element to them that teaches science in a story-like way. But, and I can't possibly stress this enough, she has to learn to read science also. Slowly, with reflection, and with imagining application of it mathematically. Also, I was like this, and one of the things that helped me the most was imagining things on the molecular level. I could imagine a molecule of water--OK it's polar, and it's bent, and what is going to happen when it meets a molecule that is nonpolar? Well, it's not going to want to stick. OK, this alcohol is polar, so they will mix. This fat is not, so they won't. Stuff like that. I actually have some of the Tiner books. We've read parts of the Medicine one as applicable to our studies and will continue with it for our medicinal herb study. I also have the Chemistry and plan to purchase the Physics one, so we can use both next year for an overview of physical science in correlation with EM's two Chemistry books (I purchased them in a Build Your Bundle) and am looking at several options for Physics. She seems to like EM's material. I asked her more about Science yesterday, and after our discussion I think we're okay there. I usually have her draw a lot in science. She told me she is enjoying EM's Botany and Quark Chronicles. Today we will be going out to collect some of what we call weeds which are actually medicinal plants. We'll press them so she can affix them in a notebook and list their medicinal uses. So now it seems it's just history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 What I have done with her with her nonfiction material is having her learn how to do Cornell notes. There has been a huge jump in retaining the info; plus, it has given her a skill that she can use in high school and college. It not super time consuming and adds in review. I was just going to suggest the same! We call them "T-notes." Is there a particular resource you used to teach her this? http://coe.jmu.edu/learningtoolbox/cornellnotes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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