mamabear2three Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I hesitate to ask this here because I know there are so many bigger issues dealt with on this board, but you know my story... The OT has been working so well, it's been a huge encouragement to me to see my daughter be able to maintain calm, organized behavior without medication. We still have issues to iron out - lunch out at a busy chic-fil-a yesterday was a bit of a crazed time and in her own words "it was sooo loud! it made me hyper!" So we are working with the OT on putting together a go-bag so that we have tools with us to help (like ear plugs for loud places, a vibrating pillow for calming when overstimulated, etc.) Then there is school - I'm seeing her be able to work independently! Which is something she couldn't do last year without meds (or even sometimes on meds). She doesn't like math, though. (Which strikes me as slightly odd, because she has gone through periods of time where she loved math with a passion) So she will sit (or lay on the floor, or wiggle on a ball, or spin on her desk chair) and I can see her shut down - it's almost like the life drains from her as she slowly sinks lower and lower into a slump of "I don't want to do this" and then she hits the bottom (I send her to take a break and she bursts into tears, talks about her stomach hurting, how tired she is, etc.) we swing, she takes time alone, she mopes about not knowing what to do, she eats a crunchy snack, she looks grumbly...Finally after about a half hour I sent her to try the math again by herself and she bounces - in 5 minutes comes back with the entire lesson completed (considerably more completed in considerably less time than when we first started math) and she's in a good mood, with a good attitude. I've got a variety of sensory tools to use, but when they don't work I wonder if it's not ADHD or sensory - this is attitude, isn't it? How do I work through this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sounds like my adhd son. Was told it was normal but I fight the same battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature girl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 This is my daughter exactly...and it's definitely ADHD, and not attitude. If it was only attitude, your DD wouldn't agree to sit and finish the work after she's had the break, you know? With my DD, when she gets easily overwhelmed when she actually has to work at something (especially with math, but also with reading a difficult word) she completely shuts down, acts hysterical or just stares blankly out the window. I've learned to take a break, and she can often come back and read the word or do the math immediately, with no fussing. The time off just clears the overwhelm and lets them refocus. As recommended by our OT yesterday, I'm also going to try some heavy work each morning before math, and again if she breaks down during a lesson, to see if that is even more effective. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Well at some point they merge. What you're really saying is *is she being bad?* and I would say if she *could* do better she probably *would* do better. So that means she needs help. Can you structure it so she goes from this less-preferred thing to something more preferred? When my dd was that age I would save read alouds for *after* math so she'd have something to look forward to. :) I like the suggestion on doing heavy work or something organizing first. Focus Moves, anything using midline can help with that. Have you asked her *why* she's avoiding math when she's fine once she gets into it? Maybe she would have words? She was very perceptive on the Chik fil a thing, wow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 This sounds like she is having an anxiety spiral to me. Or she got too overwhelmed. It doesn't sound like she is going into this state on purpose. This is kind-of what my son was doing when his teacher thought he had ADHD (it has been coming up on another thread). He was sitting and not doing his seatwork. It looked like ADD. But he was actually experiencing anxiety about not being able to finish his work or do a good enough job. He was stuck at the "initiation" stage. They did the same strategies they would do for the "initiation" stage for ADD/ADHD at his school. From my understanding this involved talking to the counselor and the teacher helping him to get started and encouraging him to get started. Also sometimes making him a mini-goal if he was overwhelmed with thinking his work looked too long (as he had a fear of not being able to finish his work in time). I think it is really nice she is coming out of it so well on her own. My son was not coming back from it like that. But he could also perform a lot better when he was feeling better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 What math are you using? I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Well at some point they merge. What you're really saying is *is she being bad?* and I would say if she *could* do better she probably *would* do better. So that means she needs help. Can you structure it so she goes from this less-preferred thing to something more preferred? When my dd was that age I would save read alouds for *after* math so she'd have something to look forward to. :) I like the suggestion on doing heavy work or something organizing first. Focus Moves, anything using midline can help with that. Have you asked her *why* she's avoiding math when she's fine once she gets into it? Maybe she would have words? She was very perceptive on the Chik fil a thing, wow. I haven't asked her why she avoids it after she's fine again - when she's actively avoiding it, she just says it's "hard" but it can't be too hard if she can finish it independently in 5 minutes once she's willing to work on it. This sounds like she is having an anxiety spiral to me. Or she got too overwhelmed. It doesn't sound like she is going into this state on purpose. This is kind-of what my son was doing when his teacher thought he had ADHD (it has been coming up on another thread). He was sitting and not doing his seatwork. It looked like ADD. But he was actually experiencing anxiety about not being able to finish his work or do a good enough job. He was stuck at the "initiation" stage. They did the same strategies they would do for the "initiation" stage for ADD/ADHD at his school. From my understanding this involved talking to the counselor and the teacher helping him to get started and encouraging him to get started. Also sometimes making him a mini-goal if he was overwhelmed with thinking his work looked too long (as he had a fear of not being able to finish his work in time). I think it is really nice she is coming out of it so well on her own. My son was not coming back from it like that. But he could also perform a lot better when he was feeling better. I'll have to look into that - ways to get her started. Thanks for the idea :) What math are you using? I'm curious. I am using McRuffy math this year because of the math we have tried, it is the least overwhelming for her - a single page for practice, well structured lessons and manipulatives built into each lesson which helps make math more fun... We have tried several in the past and not had as much success with the others as with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sounds like anxiety to me. I have no clue how to deal with that. Maybe try a visual workbox system where she controls morning/afternoon school work order. Make sure she knows her options first so that she can think it through. of "I don't want to do this" and then she hits the bottom (I send her to take a break and she bursts into tears, talks about her stomach hurting, how tired she is, etc.) we swing, she takes time alone, she mopes about not knowing what to do, she eats a crunchy snack, she looks grumbly...Finally after about a half hour I sent her to try the math again by herself and she bounces - in 5 minutes comes back with the entire lesson completed (considerably more completed in considerably less time than when we first started math) and she's in a good mood, with a good attitude. When I read the above, it made me think of leaving a fun event like a swim party. Prior to leaving, I warn the kids that we will leave in x amount of minutes and suggest they prep their hearts. Maybe with a system that she minimally controls, she can prep her own heart. ETA: I'd also add a prize or sticker or whatever her currency is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I googled to find the right word for what the counselor worked on with him, it was "task initiation." She worked through that part of her ADHD program with him, I do not really know what that involved, besides talking to her in the office and her helping him. He went for about 2-3 months and then there was a lot of improvement. At the same time he was able to start doing some work orally and to be able to leave the room during timed math facts, that had been upsetting him. It turned out he has slow handwriting and that is why he was not able to finish his work in an expected amount of time, and how he got into this fear of not being able to do his work in time. So there was background for him and the root causes needed to be fixed for him, too. Keep in mind children communicate with their behavior. They don't necessarily come up to you and say "hey mom, here is what is going on" -- they may not even know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sounds like anxiety to me. I have no clue how to deal with that. Maybe try a visual workbox system where she controls morning/afternoon school work order. Make sure she knows her options first so that she can think it through. When I read the above, it made me think of leaving a fun event like a swim party. Prior to leaving, I warn the kids that we will leave in x amount of minutes and suggest they prep their hearts. Maybe with a system that she minimally controls, she can prep her own heart. ETA: I'd also add a prize or sticker or whatever her currency is. Ok, so I can buy anxiety as a cause - in the past, math has caused anxiety (math Mammoth was a colossal failure for this reason - just way too many problems on the page no matter how few I assigned). We have a visual schedule where each morning she puts her assigned subjects for the day on the list (velcro on). She takes time to put the subjects on in the order she wants to do them and sometimes will even do them out of order, which I don't mind - the only thing I require is that she completes everything on her list (which takes 3 hours on average, with several breaks built in). I'll have to think about how to reduce anxiety over math. I wonder if there is a better math program? Or is the program not the issue, is it just the subject? hm... I googled to find the right word for what the counselor worked on with him, it was "task initiation." She worked through that part of her ADHD program with him, I do not really know what that involved, besides talking to her in the office and her helping him. He went for about 2-3 months and then there was a lot of improvement. At the same time he was able to start doing some work orally and to be able to leave the room during timed math facts, that had been upsetting him. It turned out he has slow handwriting and that is why he was not able to finish his work in an expected amount of time, and how he got into this fear of not being able to do his work in time. So there was background for him and the root causes needed to be fixed for him, too. Keep in mind children communicate with their behavior. They don't necessarily come up to you and say "hey mom, here is what is going on" -- they may not even know. I'll have to look into task initiation - the thing that's odd is that math is literally the only thing we are having trouble with. She doesn't even balk over a list of 10 phrases to translate for Spanish, something I expected to be an issue due to how many were on one page. She has a pleasant, willing attitude for literally everything else on the list, except for math. :confused1: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Math is where anxiety shows up for a lot of kids. I think it has to do with math being more abstract than a lot of things they do, but that's just me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 And ADHD can have an anxiety component. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.