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accomodations for gifted children in PS


blue daisy
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If you have a gifted or advanced child in PS, what are some ways the school is accommodating them or meeting their needs?

 

I'm asking because I'm trying to see if my expectations for our school are appropriate.  Thanks.  :)

 

(I'm going to cross post this in general ed.)

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Not really any.

The teachers were willing, but too overworked to spend any extra time and effort on my gifted kids. Teachers are measured by how well the lowest performing students do - so gifted kids who do well on standardized tests are left alone to read fiction all day long, as long as they are not disruptive.

We had a gifted program, but that was too little and not actually an appropriate academic challenge, but rather a more fun break from the boredom.

 

We only solved the problem by pulling them out to homeschool.

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In our case, they didn't.  Unfortunately, the expectations for the TAG kids in our school district are that they are creative writers.  My son will never be a gifted writer or excel where he must rely on his creativity.  I'm sure in some schools the opposite is true.

 

Even now, with standardized test scores on hand, and he is homeschooled, he is not allowed to take the available online courses until he is in 6th grade, and then must take a proficiency exam prior to being allowed in each class above his grade level.

 

I'm sure other people have a wonderful experience with PS gifted programs, but it was certainly not our experience.

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Double post.

 

But I'll second what regentrude said, generally, the schools would rather have a kid that they know will be able to ace the standardized tests than give them more challenging work with the possibility their scores will drop.  Better scores = more money.

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Cross Posted

 

K-2 Children are not yet identified as gifted and Talented in these grades

 

-differentiation within the classrooms meaning different math and reading levels and assignments sometimes within groups and sometimes individualized  

-pull out enrichment opportunities. Out of about 175 students in the grade about 50 are designated as eligible for these opportunities usually reading related.

 

3-5 Students may be identified at Gifted. 

 

-Classroom differentiation continues

-in school enrichment opportunities are available and they are more specific to Reading, Science and Art.  Again about 40-50 students are eligible

-After school enrichment opportunities are available as well.

-some schools also have a TAG program at this point for the identified students.  

 

Middle School 6th - 8th

 

-Students that have been identified as Gifted and Talented or are identified at this point are provided an IEP and participate in a TAG program.  There are only about 6-10 students per grade that are eligible

-Some classes such as English and math are leveled and all classes still have differentiation within the classroom.

-All students participate in "Whatever it Takes" periods during the day that offer enrichment and/or assistance as needed

-Any grade or class advancement would reflect the student's IEP

 

High School

 

-Advancement would reflect the students IEP obviously at this level point all classes are leveled into College, Honors or AP (sometimes there is a 4th -something like Advanced Honors)

 

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In our neck of the woods, absolutely none. No enrichment, no grade skipping, nothing. Everybody here is socially promoted, and most schools are barely/not providing adequate resources for struggling and special needs kids. The gifted kids have to fend for themselves. Not really ideal and kind of the worst case scenario, but there you are. Most of my friends with gifted kids have them in private school or heavy enrichment activities outside of school. Some homeschool. 

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Little to none.  There is a weekly pullout with no accommodation for missed material during the pull-out (so, it's actually a penalty).  Once a week, the WIN (What I Need) program allows a student to work with remedial students from a higher grade, in math only.

 

Our GT teacher hinted that we should hightail it (no appropriate support for HG or PG kids), so we did.

 

In practice, GT requires preferential treatment from the teacher -- it is for the best-behaved among the top 10%.  Bored / frustrated kids need not apply.

 

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In our district:

 

Every elementary school and middle school has an "Academically & Intellectually Gifted" teacher who handles:

-testing for gifted identification

-testing for single subject acceleration

-overseeing accommodations for identified students

 

At the elementary school level:

-all students are screened for gifted needs in 3rd grade to ensure that no child is missed (though you can request testing earlier than that)

-students are identified as gifted in reading/lang.arts, gifted in math, or gifted in both

-accommodations are made by the individual classroom teacher and vary in effectiveness

-a couple hours of pull-outs are done by the gifted teacher and vary wildly

-a student may be qualified for "subject acceleration" in either reading/language arts or math. You may not be accelerated in both areas.

 

At the middle school level:

-gifted identified students are supposed to be grouped together in classes (think 6-12 students within an English class - never a class of only gifted students)

-clusters of gifted students must read the same books (in English) & learn the same concepts (in math) as regular students, but the teacher is supposed to provide them with more challenging assignments. If this is done (and how well) varies wildly.

-students may be accelerated in either their English sequence or their math sequence. You may not be accelerated in both areas.

-students may take "gifted" designated electives such has "Math Counts" or "Advanced Literature", but it means foregoing other electives

 

At the high school level:

-all schools offer Honors, AP, & the option for dual-enrollment, but higher-SES schools have more options due to "demand" than lower-SES schools

-all schools offer the option of early graduation, which is easy to accomplish since our district operates on a 4x4 block schedule.

 

Statewide:

-students with birthdates within 6 months of the cut-off may apply for early entry to kindergarten based on IQ & standardized test scores.

-students may grade skip based on IQ, grades & standardized test scores.

*I have not known many kids who did early entry (because not many parents want their 4-yr-old in full-day academic K), but I have known lots of kids in our school district who have grade-skipped. I don't know if it's common statewide, but it is common in our district.

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My son just qualified for the gifted program in our school district (he was tested last spring when he was in second grade). There is a meeting for new parents this week. I am not hopeful. From what I can tell from the district's gifted website, they have three to four Saturday Academies for gifted students. My son plays sports on the weekends and is not willing to miss a sports activity to go to school on Saturday. So I think they will continue to do what they have done since he entered kindergarten -  nothing.  What angers me is that he is in a high achieving school where many of the students could read when they entered kindergarten and are above grade level in math. If they actually wanted to group the kids for part of the day they really could. Instead parents are paying for enrichment classes like Kumon, Mathnasium, etc. so their children will be challenged.  Many of the teachers have implemented a language arts/classroom routine called Daily Five where the teacher gives the students independent activities to do while the teacher calls up students individually or in small groups to the teacher's table. The advanced students are rarely ever called to work with the teacher. My son told me he was called up in a group maybe once a week or every other week with the other kids who were above grade level. The teacher just had them read any book they wanted. He said the students who were behind went with the teacher every day. 

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In DD10's case, at her pediatrician's insistence we had her tested by the schools before she reached K age, because they have to test based on parent/physician referral before school age, but after school age have more leeway (GT is considered a special ed area in my state). Based on that, she got early entry to K, and we were told she'd be assigned a school that had a GT teacher in residence. They couldn't tell me what school-it could be anywhere in the city. We chose, instead, to enter her in a private school that would accept her GT IEP and let her enter K early (with consult services from the school district). She also went up to 3rd grade for reading and math with their "advanced" group.

 

If we'd stayed in the PS system, usually they test the top 10% or so based on grade level 3rd grade test scores and these kids are pulled out for a couple of hours a week. Starting at middle school,the top kids move into "pre-AP" and "Honors" classes, which then turn into AP and DE in high school.

 

 

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In the early years, nothing. I tried K for each of my older kids and ended up doing a mix of school and homeschool. By mid elementary I started to gain support within the system. Now, with middle schoolers (entering 6th and 7th) I actually have high school and community college available. I don't really count CC as PS since I have to pay for it. High school access is nice though. I've found folks much more eager to place my kids into already existing classes that are out of level than to try to accommodate them in a group setting of age mates.

 

What are you hoping for?

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(X posted)

 

Thanks everyone!  I was hoping to get a feel for what others have experienced.  The teachers at our school have said that they want to accommodate the advanced learners but in reality, they are offered a little enrichment here and there but it's not really challenging them.  I don't know that I would expect more (I was a teacher once, I know what's on their plates!)  But it is frustrating none the less.  I appreciate the input. :)

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What are you hoping for?

 

Interested to hear this as well.

 

I looked up the cross post and it sounds like your experience has been better than most of ours.  As I had suspected, the general consensus (of those who had replied when I last checked) was far more positive than it has been in the experiences for those of us on this board.

 

IMO, if you are looking for some extra material or for something to keep him more engaged (so he is spending less reading, goofing off, sitting, etc.) during the school day, then Gifted and Talented services will probably meet your needs.  If you are looking for something to really challenge him, and push his limits, then I highly doubt that the PS will be able to service your needs.  The only way that might change is if he is in a group where most of the other kids in the class are about at the same level as him (i.e. true peers).

 

I've always said that teachers, out of necessity, teach to the biggest cross-section of students in the classroom - neither the ones at the bottom or the top receive the instruction they need (though the ones at the bottom generally receive more help than those at the top).  That is true in any class, regardless of the abilities of the students in it.  If your child is in the middle, then you will probably be happy with the instruction that he receives.  If he's on either end, then your opinion will probably change significantly.  Not knocking teachers at all...or even the programs really, it's just the way a classroom has to function.

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They can accommodate but to a certain point. If you have a HG or PG kid in our district, forget it. If your child is generally strong in a certain area, say math, they will give slightly harder work, but not ahead of the grade level. They adjust reading level of books as well, but still remain under certain parameters. For example, no 8th grade book would be allowed in our school for a second grader, because it's inappropriate. Let's just say my kid was very upset when he wasn't allowed to read his beloved Tolkein in the classroom. Generally reading was maybe a year or two accelerated at most. Even in our case (we have never tested, so I don't have a clue if my kid is gifted of just accelerated, but I suspect he is just very bright), we had to leave school to allow DS to learn at his pace. There is no way they would let him work on aops algebra in fifth grade. So I guess it depends on how extreme of an accommodation you need.

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At the elementary school my son attended I think the G&T population was about 40% of the school population. The classes were pitched fairly high, and it was a tough school for some kids. We had people whose children struggled academically who needed to leave for better fits. There was no real differentiation, but can't complain. We scored.

 

For Middle School, started this month, there were all sort of choices. We picked an Accelerated Math "school with-in a school" as the best fit for our kid, but outstanding Science programs, Humanities programs, and Highly Gifted Magnates were all available close-by. Plus some interesting Charter options.

 

Bill

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I'm in a PhD-rich university town, so a fair number of gifted kids in the public schools around campus. There is GT coordinator for the county, a fairly helpful website, and even a panel of teachers/parents who help guide GT education. I met with the GT coordinator last year and she says they try hard to match the best teacher to the child, especially for the HG/PG kids. I haven't experienced it first-hand yet, but my boss seems content with it for his daughter so far. She was identified at the end of K, has an IEP that is reviewed annually, and moves to another grade for math. For reading he said there are enough similar kids in her reading group that it works (she's probably 3 years advanced in reading; not sure about math). I think they have a weekly pull-out program as well, but don't know much about that.

 

Of course, the coordinator said my daughter's Montessori school was probably a better fit as long as I could afford it. That remains to be seen!

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We are in a more rural area, and from discussions with other moms, it seems that the children who are actually gifted (especially if they are HG or PG) do not qualify for the Gifted and Talented programs.  The ones who get in seem to just be "bright" students, who have the classroom personality that the TAG teachers are looking for.  I even asked if having an IQ test would help, and they said that if I had it done that it would be considered, but regardless of the results, they wouldn't automatically qualify him for the program.

 

I've noticed that with DS's friends, his closer friends generally are gifted in some form.  He gets along with EVERYONE, but it's so interesting to see how he lights up when he finds a true peer.  I don't think he realizes that's what it is, but even with kids who have no other common interests with him, if they are his intellectual peers, it's an instant bond that he lacks even with others who have many more of the same interests.

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We are in a more rural area, and from discussions with other moms, it seems that the children who are actually gifted (especially if they are HG or PG) do not qualify for the Gifted and Talented programs.  The ones who get in seem to just be "bright" students, who have the classroom personality that the TAG teachers are looking for.  I even asked if having an IQ test would help, and they said that if I had it done that it would be considered, but regardless of the results, they wouldn't automatically qualify him for the program.

 

I've noticed that with DS's friends, his closer friends generally are gifted in some form.  He gets along with EVERYONE, but it's so interesting to see how he lights up when he finds a true peer.  I don't think he realizes that's what it is, but even with kids who have no other common interests with him, if they are his intellectual peers, it's an instant bond that he lacks even with others who have many more of the same interests.

 

That is so strange. There needs to be transparency in how students are qualified for gifted services or it could cause problems down the line if it appears that more affluent students . . . or more white students . . . or more children of PTA volunteers . . . or whatever are being identified.

 

Our district has the same policy as far as IQ: you will not automatically qualify no matter how high your IQ is. The requirement here is that you also have standardized test scores above the 95th% in addition to an IQ above the 90th%. For some reason that policy makes me very uncomfortable. I imagine a low-SES child from challenging circumstances who has a sky-high IQ, but only scores at the 94th% in math, because the test covers concepts that have not yet been taught in his Title-I school. That doesn't feel right to me. I really feel that if a child has a full-scale IQ above a certain point (132 or 145??) then they should automatically qualify.

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My dd tested into a full-time/self-contained gifted school (2 out of 25 public elementary schools in my district had these gifted programs.  Each program had 25 seats.  Teachers recommended several of their 1st grade kids to take the test for the G&T school.  There were 3100 first-graders in my district, 400-500 were recommended to take the test, and there were only 50 G&T seats).  

 

The curriculum was about 1 year ahead of the mainstream classes and the kids has classes like:  art studio, Spanish, piano, and science lab.  The mainstream students graduate in 5th grade, the G&T kids are there until 8th grade (so it's also a G&T middle school).  The G&T kids were the pride of the school and the principal didn't hide the favoritism.  The program was even called "The Academy for the Intellectually Gifted" (no, we did not buy the t-shirt, lol).

 

It's an amazing program and I do kinda wish it was a good fit for my dd.  After 2 years she was just bored and chatty and lost interest in learning, so we started homeschooling.  As a side note, she did go on to one of the best public high schools in my city with one of her best friends from 3rd grade who was in the G&T program til 8th grade.

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That is so strange. There needs to be transparency in how students are qualified for gifted services or it could cause problems down the line if it appears that more affluent students . . . or more white students . . . or more children of PTA volunteers . . . or whatever are being identified.

 

Our district has the same policy as far as IQ: you will not automatically qualify no matter how high your IQ is. The requirement here is that you also have standardized test scores above the 95th% in addition to an IQ above the 90th%. For some reason that policy makes me very uncomfortable. I imagine a low-SES child from challenging circumstances who has a sky-high IQ, but only scores at the 94th% in math, because the test covers concepts that have not yet been taught in his Title-I school. That doesn't feel right to me. I really feel that if a child has a full-scale IQ above a certain point (132 or 145??) then they should automatically qualify.

 

I agree.  

 

Here the TAG teacher puts together a portfolio of work that the student does with her individually.  My son didn't test well at the time, because he didn't want to answer incorrectly, so he just said, "I don't know" with anything he wasn't 100% confident of his answer.  IMO, a truly qualified individual would have been able to identify this perfectionistic streak for what it was.

 

Also, the schools gifted program is explained as being "broad and shallow" which seems ridiculous to me.  My son immediately wants everything in way more depth than is usual at elementary.  Instead of taking the classroom material and really digging into it, it would seem that they cover a wider range of material, which is so odd to me.  Acceleration seems to be almost a 4 letter word in the county, even if you aren't seeking to accelerate the grade level, just specific classes.

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Our school district doesn't provide gifted services until 3rd grade, and then it is minimal.  However, the Gifted Coordinator became aware of ds when we requested a whole grade acceleration.  After seeing the test results that were part of that process, she suggested a second whole grade acceleration, offered subject acceleration as needed, and left the door open if we ever felt there were issues that needed resolved.  He only attended 1 year in p.s. (because his asynchrony was just really extreme and we felt they would be better met out of a grade-age system).  The teacher he had was less comfortable with a younger child in her class, so that did affect our experience.  I think the school was willing to work with us, which was going very much "above and beyond" their requirements.

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Our school district doesn't provide gifted services until 3rd grade, and then it is minimal.  However, the Gifted Coordinator became aware of ds when we requested a whole grade acceleration.  After seeing the test results that were part of that process, she suggested a second whole grade acceleration, offered subject acceleration as needed, and left the door open if we ever felt there were issues that needed resolved.  He only attended 1 year in p.s. (because his asynchrony was just really extreme and we felt they would be better met out of a grade-age system).  The teacher he had was less comfortable with a younger child in her class, so that did affect our experience.  I think the school was willing to work with us, which was going very much "above and beyond" their requirements.

 

It's awesome that the school was willing to work with you that way.  Honestly, I would reconsider PS as an option for DS if our school was as open to acceleration as needed.  Unfortunately, I've looked at the offerings that our PS has and there is absolutely no way that I can imagine him ever fitting back in to the PS system.  Maybe in HS, but even that is doubtful.

 

I am considering looking at a local private school.  It's very small, with a more advanced curriculum than the PS (though not exactly geared to GT population), but I know for a fact that they will accommodate different schedules (since it's K-12 on a small campus, there is obviously more flexibility to move between classes).  When I was substituting there, I regularly had classes with 6th graders and Seniors together.  More likely, I would see if there is an option to have him partially enrolled there, so he can participate in HS level sports and get the benefits of a "traditional HS environment" and also allow him to accelerate at his own homeschool pace.  I haven't called yet to discuss options, because we aren't at that point yet - in the next year or two though it will probably be something we seriously consider.

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In our district, the gifted program doesn't begin until 3rd grade. Then it is an enclosed, full day magnet program at several schools throughout the district. The program continues on into middle school, and you have to retest every other year I believe to qualify. I will test my son next year (in 2nd) and see if he qualifies and then make a decision. I have heard some negative comments, that it's really just the same material with more homework, so I will have to look into that.

 

This is the reason I chose our charter school, that does ability grouping for reading and math. Of course, ability grouping was limited last year in half-day Kindergarten, but he's finally in first, accelerated a year in math now and will be doing his reading placement tomorrow.

 

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That is so strange. There needs to be transparency in how students are qualified for gifted services or it could cause problems down the line if it appears that more affluent students . . . or more white students . . . or more children of PTA volunteers . . . or whatever are being identified.

 

Our district has the same policy as far as IQ: you will not automatically qualify no matter how high your IQ is. The requirement here is that you also have standardized test scores above the 95th% in addition to an IQ above the 90th%. For some reason that policy makes me very uncomfortable. I imagine a low-SES child from challenging circumstances who has a sky-high IQ, but only scores at the 94th% in math, because the test covers concepts that have not yet been taught in his Title-I school. That doesn't feel right to me. I really feel that if a child has a full-scale IQ above a certain point (132 or 145??) then they should automatically qualify.

 

 

Here the IQ test does carry more weight.  There is a minimum cutoff - I think 135.  A hard working, conscientious  student with an IQ of 130 most likely would not make it into the program no matter who their parents are.  They would however qualify for enrichment programs and advanced classes just not the TAG program.

 

I do have to say there seems to be a need to know mentality with all of this.  I would guess that most parents with children that do not participate in the TAG program do not even know it exists.  Also parents whose children do not qualify for the enrichment programs seem to not know those exist either.  I've encountered parents with students in the enrichment programs or in advanced classes or groups who think that those are the TAG services not understanding that there are others identified as gifted with IEPs, who participate in actual TAG programs.

 

All of these designations and opportunities are laid out in the school handbook and by school policies, but many parents do not avail themselves of that information.   I've chatted with groups of parents many times when someone will say "what a shame our town doesn't have a gifted program." or "schools don't have gifted programs anymore."  It's just odd.

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As some others have indicated, we found that not much was done for gifted kids in our school district, which is one of the main reasons we decided to homeschool very early on.  While in later grades, GT kids are often in accelerated math classes, for other subjects, pullout kids mainly just got more work and/or busywork, such as filling out Wordly Wise worksheets.  In high school, it's a little better, with the options of AP and DE classes, but for elementary through middle, not a lot is done for GT kids around here.

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In San Diego, the kids are tested at 2nd, 4th and 6th. All the funding for gifted was pulled by a law that passed a few years ago making the gifted funds accessible to the general fund. Teachers were supposedly differentiating in classroom. They did to their own extent but it just meant slightly more difficult questions and not every teacher did it. In first grade when my son was working three years ahead in math I got permission to do our own math at home, and then in second grade was allowed to come in twice a week and teach him during class separately. But it was an extremely laid back school thst basically was run by the PTA (they never would have had any money otherwise, CA schools are so broke) so since I was a frequent volunteer and was known well there, they allowed me to do it. Then we moved to VA and there is a 45 minute pull out a week and it is much more difficult (or impossible) to do anything outside the bureaucratic norm. We didn't bother - we just homeschooled.

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IQ test means nothing. Access to enrichment based pretty much on a single test and is only an hour a week anyway although ds8 got into 2 this year so tbat is 1 hour every second week for maths and one a week for a problem solvers type thing. Intermediate and high school have extension classes but they are aimed at evenly bright achievers. 2e or non complaint selective consumers need not apply.

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My son just qualified for the gifted program in our school district (he was tested last spring when he was in second grade). There is a meeting for new parents this week. I am not hopeful. From what I can tell from the district's gifted website, they have three to four Saturday Academies for gifted students. My son plays sports on the weekends and is not willing to miss a sports activity to go to school on Saturday. So I think they will continue to do what they have done since he entered kindergarten -  nothing.  What angers me is that he is in a high achieving school where many of the students could read when they entered kindergarten and are above grade level in math. If they actually wanted to group the kids for part of the day they really could. Instead parents are paying for enrichment classes like Kumon, Mathnasium, etc. so their children will be challenged.  Many of the teachers have implemented a language arts/classroom routine called Daily Five where the teacher gives the students independent activities to do while the teacher calls up students individually or in small groups to the teacher's table. The advanced students are rarely ever called to work with the teacher. My son told me he was called up in a group maybe once a week or every other week with the other kids who were above grade level. The teacher just had them read any book they wanted. He said the students who were behind went with the teacher every day. 

 

This is RtI (Response to Intervention) at work. The lower kids need more help, higher kids less, so they are taught individually or in small groups at different rates. It also slows down the referral process for slower kids as well. I'm not liking it for either end of the spectrum.

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