Help me think this through - high school lit club

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm not sure if I should put this here or on the chat board.  It relates to high school, but it may be more of a commentary/vent about homeschoolers in general. 

 

So, I've been planning on doing a high school lit club to for the literature part of high school English. (She is doing a couple of BraveWriter classes and some other writing for the composition portion.)   I had done this with my older kids and it worked fairly well, provided I had other students/parents who were treated it as a priority.  I've never been a fan of "you must study these books because ... the powers that be, in their Ivory Towers, have deemed them great."  I've usually tried to keep things interesting while including some books that have depth and still make a slight nod to those "top 100 books to read before college" lists.  I really need to do a group for this for a few reasons.  1.  I am way out of my league when it comes to literature.  Don't get me wrong.  I love to read, and I love to discuss books.  But I just don't see things the way English majors see things.  2.  We need something to keep us accountable so that we don't let things slide.  A real risk since I am kind of burnt out at the end of my homeschooling journey  3.  Dd, who is attending high school part-time, learns best when she has other people on the journey and she wants to continue to have ties to the homeschool community.  

 

Dd15 wants something meaty this year.  She has her own list of what she wants to read before graduating high school and many are on those top 100 lists.  We looked through some Great Courses courses and decided to do some American literature using Great American Best Sellers as a base (adding and subtracting where we see fit, substituting films and maybe adding poetry.)  I had let people know a few weeks ago (before deciding on anything)  that I was planning on doing a group and am only now getting around to the planning part.  I had discussed this plan with a friend who had expressed interest in having her high-school-aged son join us.   But, I feel that she is pressuring me to only include books her son is "interested in."  I know this boy and his interests are pretty limited and I feel like this will water down what we do this year.  Dd wants to be stretched.  Partly because she feels somewhat inadequate compared to what she hears her high school friends are doing (probably perception only because I hate the English department at our local, highly regarded high school.)  And partly because she has an intellectual curiosity that I want to encourage.

 

Part of me wants to say "Hey, we have different goals.  You do your thing, I'll do mine."  But, I have my doubts about how many people would be willing to join us, partly due to the fact that the available pool of homeschooled teens tend to come from very religious, conservative homes and their parents don't approve of people like me who don't only hang out with evangelical Christians (and I'm certain that they would not approve of my book list not that it is terribly offensive - much milder than our high school, but has some meaty and difficult topics.)  And partly because the rest of them are so independent that it is like herding cats (feral ones at that) to get them all on the same page.

 

Any advice/commiseration? 

[Junie]

I can't help you with the club.  Sorry that it's so difficult.

 

However, ds14 and I did American Lit last year.  We did poetry and some of the traditional American Lit selections that many of my friends would have overlooked.  (To Kill a Mockingbird, for example.)  I don't know that we would have found a good fit either.

 

Maybe you could get together with some of the other moms and create a list that you're all happy with.  Then you can add a few of your own to do just with your dd.  That way part of the literature could be done as a group, and you will still have control over your own list.

 

Literature tends to be very personal, especially among people with strong religious beliefs.  I'm sorry that you're having trouble finding someone to do lit with, but it doesn't really surprise me.

 

And don't worry about not being an English major.  If you love books, that's the most important part of teaching literature.

 

I'm willing to share our reading list, if you're interested.  Or let me know if there's anything else I can help with.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think you have two paths you could go down.

 

1) Pick the books you want to go through with your dd.  Plan a regular discussion group around those books.  Put out a schedule.  You may find like minded individuals if you cast your net widely.  Do cast your net through the religious groups too.  Don't assume that you can predict someone's reading habits or academic goals by their church or coop affiliations.  You would need to be the driving force behind the schedule and the planning.  You might get a good group of interested participants (especially if there is good food and company as well as discussion).  But you might also have other families who sign on but don't make the group a priority.

 

2) To attract more people and get more emotional/intellectual buy in, be more flexible on what the group gets together to discuss.  The same way that you want your time in the group to be meaningful for your dd, other families may want reading choices to fit their kids' personalities and academic goals.  Our local adult ladies' book club has the location change monthly; the hostess picks the book for the month.  I've read several that I never would have picked up on my own.  Even if other families give input on the books, there may not be a prioritization from others. 

 

Book clubs can be sort of ticklish things.  I had a month when I hosted and only three women came (one of whom hadn't read the book - which was one of my lifetime favorites).  It was a summer meeting and the group was just getting off the ground.  I wish there had been others there, but I chose to think of it as a wonderful evening tea with dear friends rather than a big bookclub that not many showed up to.  

 

We encourage people to come, even if they didn't read/finish the book.  For our purposes, companionship and building the habit of attendance means more than just having people who finished reading.  Sometimes having someone try to summarize the book to non-readers is a good exercise in isolating the significant parts of the book.

 

I go even when I didn't enjoy the book.  Some of the most rewarding conversations have been on books I didn't like, especially when I could listen to others explain why that particular book touched them deeply.

 

Sometimes a book that moves people a lot is hard to discuss.  We did Station Eleven recently and had a pretty flat discussion, even though it was an engaging and powerful story.  I think it was just hard to reduce it to book club discussion level.

 

Food, food, food.  It gives people something to look forward to, something to be communal about.  And it's tasty and reinforces happy feelings about book club.   

 

Have fun.  I love my bookclub with a strong passion.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think you have two paths you could go down.

 

1) Pick the books you want to go through with your dd.  Plan a regular discussion group around those books.  Put out a schedule.  You may find like minded individuals if you cast your net widely.  Do cast your net through the religious groups too.  Don't assume that you can predict someone's reading habits or academic goals by their church or coop affiliations.  You would need to be the driving force behind the schedule and the planning.  You might get a good group of interested participants (especially if there is good food and company as well as discussion).  But you might also have other families who sign on but don't make the group a priority.

 

2) To attract more people and get more emotional/intellectual buy in, be more flexible on what the group gets together to discuss.  The same way that you want your time in the group to be meaningful for your dd, other families may want reading choices to fit their kids' personalities and academic goals.  Our local adult ladies' book club has the location change monthly; the hostess picks the book for the month.  I've read several that I never would have picked up on my own.  Even if other families give input on the books, there may not be a prioritization from others. 

 

Book clubs can be sort of ticklish things.  I had a month when I hosted and only three women came (one of whom hadn't read the book - which was one of my lifetime favorites).  It was a summer meeting and the group was just getting off the ground.  I wish there had been others there, but I chose to think of it as a wonderful evening tea with dear friends rather than a big bookclub that not many showed up to.  

 

We encourage people to come, even if they didn't read/finish the book.  For our purposes, companionship and building the habit of attendance means more than just having people who finished reading.  Sometimes having someone try to summarize the book to non-readers is a good exercise in isolating the significant parts of the book.

 

I go even when I didn't enjoy the book.  Some of the most rewarding conversations have been on books I didn't like, especially when I could listen to others explain why that particular book touched them deeply.

 

Sometimes a book that moves people a lot is hard to discuss.  We did Station Eleven recently and had a pretty flat discussion, even though it was an engaging and powerful story.  I think it was just hard to reduce it to book club discussion level.

 

Food, food, food.  It gives people something to look forward to, something to be communal about.  And it's tasty and reinforces happy feelings about book club.   

 

Have fun.  I love my bookclub with a strong passion.  

 

I have done Option 1 many times.  And it has worked with varying degrees of success.  The biggest problem was getting enough participants who can make a commitment to the group.  I have never had a conservative Christian family join my groups in the past.  Once they saw my reading list, they balked (and my reading list is way more tame than what they would be reading at the local public school.)  These people object to lots of the meatier classics because they might have "s-e-x" in them.  One year, a woman went so far as to take my exact wording for my book group and take out the objectionable books ( I think there were 3) and start her own group and advertise to the same group of people I had advertised to.  She added that it would be a wholesome alternative to the trash that was out there.  (I guess To Kill a Mockingbird was trash since there was a "r-a-p-e" in it.)   It was an overt slap in the face and the conservative (and even borderline conservative) families all joined her group.  In a way, I was feeling "good riddance", but in another way, I was pretty irritated.  I felt like I was portrayed as this evil person, when, in fact, I had way more in common with them that they realized.  The thing is, the pool of people who don't already think I would be a bad influence on their children is pretty small.  Much smaller than it was with my older children. 

 

Option 2 may be doable, but my fear is that it will be watered down.  And this fear is not unjustified.  Last year, one family complained that To Kill A Mockingbird was just too hard.  (Really?  I read that in 7th or 8th grade at a Catholic school.)   If we go this route, we may end up with a list only from the Young Adult section of the library.  Our group last year was similar to this and it was disappointing.  It felt like a middle school group rather than a high school group.  I fear that my friend who wants to work with me on a list is falling into that group (and she wasn't like this at all with her oldest who was in a group with my kids for years.)

 

I really don't want this to run like a book group for adults.  I like the loosey-goosey atmosphere for an adult book club.  But I want this to be more academic as this is supposed to count for high school English, not an extracurricular.  But still fun (and yes, there will be food.)

[klmama]

No advice, just some commiseration.  A friend wanted to start a literature discussion group and asked my input.  While we agreed on most of the books, our schedules don't mesh well.  I don't think it's going to work for us, and I'm sad.  I'm also sad that the group she's inviting is the same group I would invite to do something similar, and I'm not going to "steal" her crowd.  So, no lit club for us this year. 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have done Option 1 many times.  And it has worked with varying degrees of success.  The biggest problem was getting enough participants who can make a commitment to the group.  I have never had a conservative Christian family join my groups in the past.  Once they saw my reading list, they balked (and my reading list is way more tame than what they would be reading at the local public school.)  These people object to lots of the meatier classics because they might have "s-e-x" in them.  One year, a woman went so far as to take my exact wording for my book group and take out the objectionable books ( I think there were 3) and start her own group and advertise to the same group of people I had advertised to.  She added that it would be a wholesome alternative to the trash that was out there.  (I guess To Kill a Mockingbird was trash since there was a "r-a-p-e" in it.)   It was an overt slap in the face and the conservative (and even borderline conservative) families all joined her group.  In a way, I was feeling "good riddance", but in another way, I was pretty irritated.  I felt like I was portrayed as this evil person, when, in fact, I had way more in common with them that they realized.  The thing is, the pool of people who don't already think I would be a bad influence on their children is pretty small.  Much smaller than it was with my older children. 

 

Option 2 may be doable, but my fear is that it will be watered down.  And this fear is not unjustified.  Last year, one family complained that To Kill A Mockingbird was just too hard.  (Really?  I read that in 7th or 8th grade at a Catholic school.)   If we go this route, we may end up with a list only from the Young Adult section of the library.  Our group last year was similar to this and it was disappointing.  It felt like a middle school group rather than a high school group.  I fear that my friend who wants to work with me on a list is falling into that group (and she wasn't like this at all with her oldest who was in a group with my kids for years.)

 

I really don't want this to run like a book group for adults.  I like the loosey-goosey atmosphere for an adult book club.  But I want this to be more academic as this is supposed to count for high school English, not an extracurricular.  But still fun (and yes, there will be food.)

 

I do understand.  I taught an intro to lit class in coop and it was very frustrating to have a couple students who just didn't do assignments.  Not only struggling with writing papers, but also not doing smaller exercises that were designed to equip them for larger assignments.

 

Sorry you've had trouble with other families in the past.  In a way I think everyone is better off to have the class just be quite clear up front.  My intro to lit class had Mockingbird and Jane Eyre in it.  I don't know if that turned anyone off.  I didn't get any complaints from students who were actually in the class (or their parents).  And of course, Mockingbird doesn't have a rape, which is part of the point of the story.

 

When I taught an AP Government class to the same cadre of families, I was really upfront about what the reading level of the class would be.  I didn't want to be frustrated by non-workers and I didn't want others frustrated that the class was more than they wanted to spend time on.

 

On the other hand, there were also families in that same church based coop who were happy readers of Harry Potter and watchers of Firefly and Star Wars.  So I'd probably still advertise.  Even if you only get 1-2 more students from that group, it's 1-2 you wouldn't have if you don't ask.  

 

Have you considered doing it afterschool, evenings or on Sunday and advertising through the local library?

[Julie in MN]

One possibility is to add another activity to draw more people.

 

My son was in a boys book club for many years and not many of the boys were readers but, similar to what Sebastian mentioned with food, the mom who led the book club used sports as "the draw," and the boys all went to the local park or to a local community center in bad weather and played after discussing the book.  The sports were not a draw for my son (too competitive of a group for him) and it wasn't the reason us moms were fitting it into our schedule, but it brought in more boys than would ordinarily have participated. 

 

Another "draw" I've seen work is to create a full English credit, similar to a co-op class, and the draw is that you've taken English class off the mom's hands and given the kids a group setting for their English.

 

I think it's the same with some women's book clubs I know of.  A few will be there for the books, but for many there is another draw -- the socializing, the food, because their friend is there, etc.   We'd all love everyone to be there for the reasons we are there, but I've never personally seen that become a large group. 

 

Julie

[Deee]

I run a weekly bookclub for local homeschooled teens.  We're in our 2nd year.  We have 5 kids at the moment, one of whom is mine.  They range from year 8 to year 10.  We're in Sydney so homeschoolers are a bit thinner on the ground. We meet in one of the free meeting rooms at the library for an hour each week.  Sometimes we sit in the park.  Two of the local teens spent a year in the group and then quit.  I don't think they liked the discussion aspects.  One of the girls comes from a Christian family.  She has sat out for some of the books (usually anything with fantasy).  I miss her when she isn't there because she is a very bright student ( and a good influence on the ratty boys), but I don't set books based on what she will be allowed to read.  We're reading Romeo and Juliet aloud at the moment.  The kids really enjoy it.  Last week we sat outside - they loved the looks from passers-by.  One even stopped to comment.  The parents are completely hands-off and overwhelmingly grateful.

 

I started book club by asking them to bring in their favourite book to discuss with the group.  That got the ball rolling.  Then we all read War Horse.  Because it was a simpler book, I was able to assess the reading level of the kids before I set anything really meaty.  They each have a lapbook (for novelty value) in which they keep a record of books read, literary devices, plot maps, characterisation, whatever we are focussing on.  Other than that, I don't make them write anything.  Sometime the kids pick the books (Tomorrow When the War Began - kill me now!), sometimes I pick them (Huckleberry Finn - wailing and nashing of teeth - hardest book ever, apparently). This years reading list is as follows:

 

Around the World in 80 Days

And Then There Were None

TinTin in the Land of the Soviets

Skellig

Tom's Midnight Garden

Nargun and the Stars

The Raven

Romeo and Juliet

Lord of the Flies

I am David

To Kill a Mockingbird

Pride and Prejudice

 

I'm not an English major (I'm a scientist!), but I loved English in high school, had a couple of stellar teachers, and wanted my son to have the same opportunities for discussion.  Hope this helps.

Danielle

 

[Haiku]

EdX has a monthly book discussion group. You may be interested in that. Your daughter would have people to discuss with and you wouldn't have the hassle of trying to draw a group together.