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My three youngest are in a private Christian school for the first time. Previously, they were homeschooled. DD10 is dyslexic, and I also suspect she will get a math SLD from the school when they finish their evaluations, even though the NP didn't see it. So far she has had a week and a half of school, and we have not been helping her on her homework, because we want the school to see the extent of her disabilities.

 

We had a meeting this week about having DD10 and her brother evaluated for IEPs, and the school has issued a denial that there is sufficient evidence for needed evaluations, despite the NP diagnosis, because they have no classroom data yet. They are going to collect data during the first nine weeks, and then we will meet again with the school. At that point, if they see that her disability affects her schoolwork :glare:, they will proceed with evaluations. (We weren't pleased that evaluations weren't starting immediately, and made that known, but that isn't the point of this thread, so I won't dwell on it here).

 

So DD is failing so far. For example, on one homework page she got 3 out of 21 correct. On another 8 out of 17. She missed 14 out of 20 on her spelling quiz. We expected this, and we are working on helping her understand that her teachers need to see how much help that she needs. We have been giving her emotional support at home but not as much academic help as I would normally provide. For example, on one of her worksheets, she was supposed to write two sentences in a box, and she only wrote one. I pointed out that she could correct that, and she said she would turn it in as is. I did not have her fix it, whereas normally as a homeschooler I would have made her perfect it. I have also not been correcting her spelling, and when I see a wrong answer on a math sheet, I have not had her correct it. So the papers she is turning in are 100% her work.

 

Today her teacher sent me an email saying that we should feel free to help her with her homework. If I help her, though, she will turn in perfect papers and get better grades. Which is a catch-22, because if it seems that she can do the classroom work, she will have fewer services provided for in her eventual IEP. They made a huge point in the school meeting that they must see the disability in the classroom in order to have services warranted.

 

Any advice? I've already gotten some private advice from OhE, and I'm interested to have others weigh in.

 

ETA: She is going to get private OG tutoring after school starting next week. The tutor is also the intervention teacher who will be supporting DD in her classroom (and she mentioned that she has dyslexia herself), so DD10 will be getting help at school. And the OG teacher mentioned that she would give her recommendations when it came time to write the IEP.

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Maybe you could help her and make the additions/corrections in colored pencil.  That way the teacher could see what her original work looked like.  The worksheets, though, would have to be saved so that they could be used as part of the evaluation.

 

Ime, unless it is an exceptionally large school, Christian schools are not generally set up to help students who are ahead of/behind the "norm".  It sounds like maybe this school is different?  Is it possible/desirable to put her a grade down so that she can learn without struggling so much?

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In addition to the suggestion to make corrections in a different color, I would also take note of how long these assignments are taking each night. If it is taking an hour+ with corrected work vs. the recommended 30-40 minutes, they should know that too. The volume of work, not just the content, may need to be adjusted.

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If you have a copy machine, you could do a before-and-after copy.  I don't know if that is the best idea, but it is an option, that would let you have the record of what is 100% hers.

 

I would respond back to the teacher, and let her know your situation.  Does the teacher have a suggestion for you?

 

For the "one sentence or two" thing -- you have the option of leaving it to the teacher to impose a consequence for that.  I would ask the teacher what a consequence for that might be -- as it is "incomplete" and not "incorrect" and so there might be a school consequence for that.  You have got options there.  You can ask the teacher how he/she would handle it, and then say "I think that sounds great, I am going to leave that to the two of you to work out, but I will support you as the teacher."  Or you can say "I don't think that is ideal."  

 

When her scores are so low, just getting a slightly even-lower score -- this is unlikely to be any kind of a consequence.  

 

I think it would be good to ask that her papers be unmarked as far as a score, and just have some minor corrections.  I think if it was going to help a child to see a low score -- it would already be helping.  

 

You can ask the teacher to write any positive comment that is possible.  This is something that has gone SO far for my older son's confidence and feeling that people look past his handwriting.  But -- that is his personality and also his situation is he has got horrible handwriting but otherwise at this point his work is pretty decent.  

 

You should know that the teacher *does not want* to keep writing these poor marks on your daughter's work.  She *does not want to do that.*  Can *the teacher* be brought into the attempt to have the eval done a little quicker?  Or, can *the teacher* say "we have got enough evidence with the homework we have seen so far" and then maybe you don't *really* need to "collect evidence" for the entire 9 weeks?  I would want to hear that from other people, if possible.   You need to know what they are looking for.  Ime -- maybe the teacher is going to bring in an example of one homework assignment and the most recent in-class test or quiz ----- if this is the case ---- you don't need all her homework to be unaided.  

 

It does not sound like her work is at an appropriate level when she is missing so many, unless maybe there are a lot of little mistakes?  I would want to sit down with the teacher and let the teacher say what she thinks the nature of the mistakes are showing -- in order to get helpful information.  

 

I will say -- 14/20 on spelling -- that is really good!  My older son failed a trimester of spelling last year (they break out spelling, reading, and writing as separate grades on the report card) and I was happy with how he did and positive about it with him.  He just got too many 6/10s.  And then when you are getting mostly 6/10s with a few 7/10s, it only takes one bad quiz.....  But he is doing good to spell that many words correct, that is with him making, not the hugest effort, but an effort.  

 

I would ask the tutor if you are able.  

 

If your daughter has a personality where she is going to lose heart/confidence from seeing bad scores, then you need to stop it.  But just having the teacher change how she marks her papers could be enough, possibly, depending on your daughter.  I do not know as much about 11-year-olds to be honest.  

 

I also think you need to talk to the teacher and figure out what your involvement is going to be longer term.  If in the longer term, you are going to be enforcing homework standards that are reasonable to you and the teacher ----- then I think you should try to start this sooner than later, even if it is gradual, so that in 9 weeks, you are not starting at "zero" for whatever your standard is going to be.  Your standard might be:  a certain amount of work, what you consider a certain amount of effort, a certain amount of time, or something else.  You could enforce that homework is complete, or has been worked on a certain amount of time if it is not complete.  You could continue homework over the weekend even if it won't be graded for school (I have done this if it is for math and my son needs to learn the math).  You have got a lot of options.  

 

I doubt you will be able to get away with not enforcing anything, but there are ways to be so much more hands-off with how you enforce, and leave the other things to the teacher.  

 

So iow -- I would possibly help with the math, or point out a math problem as incorrect.  But I also might almost definitely insist on a second sentence, unless it was just too much work for that night, and then I might continue it.  But my oldest is a young 10, so I think this is going to be changing for me as he gets older.

 

But I think total hands-off is just not a good idea, just b/c it seems like it is easier for kids to be consistent, and it can be easier to relax later in the year than to get more strict.  

 

But I think you could look for things that are appropriate to enforce, and let go of homework that may be really inappropriate, and not have that as what you enforce.  I think it is really possible you will be starting to enforce some kind of routine wrt reviewing the OG tutoring next week -- and if that is the case -- I would not worry so much about the school homework.  The OG homework may be what is really appropriate for her and the place where it makes sense to enforce a standard or a routine, and the school homework may not be that place.  

 

But I think this is the kind of conversation you can possibly have with the teacher.  She can't exist outside of the overall system she is part of, she doesn't have that option, but she does have options, and opinions, and she may have some good suggestions for you, or at least an understanding of what you need as your "record" when you go in to ask for the evals.  If they are going to look the most at the most recent chapter test plus a standardized test score (which has been my experience one time!) then you do not need the homework record in the same way.  

 

I think you have to keep in mind, too, that they are going to ask the teacher her opinion.  You don't want the teacher to say "well no wonder she is behind, the parents don't lift a finger, it is probably not really a SLD but instead a lack of help at home and a lack of the parents valuing education blah blah blah."  You need the teacher to think you are a caring parent who is stuck in this catch-22.  Don't expect her to know this unless you discuss it with her.  She cannot read minds.  Not that I am really worried about this -- I just would go out of my way to not leave this to chance, as a possible impression you might make on this teacher.  B/c she may be a pretty important part of the team that is making recommendations and decisions!  She  may be someone you want on your side!  You may also, hopefully, and this has been my experience, get along better with her as an advocate, b/c she is your daughter's teacher, and sees her every day, and knows her, and sees her struggle in class.  That is just not the case with other people at school.  Other people in the meeting may turn to her and say, "what are you seeing in class, Mrs. So-and-so?"  

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We chose this school specifically because they have a strong intervention program and work willingly with the public school to identify learning disabilities and create IEPs. There happen to be quite a few private Christian schools in this area, and this is the ONLY one that is willing to do this, so I know it's rare. We're thankful :) . The school ends at eighth grade, and we can already see that it may not be the perfect placement for our kids for the long term (we have some specialty private schools nearby that we may have to switch to at some point), but it seemed like a good way to start our adventure as school attendees.

 

She can't be moved to the grade below, because she is already old for her grade. And she already did a thorough run through of third grade materials last year when she was at home with me. Honestly, she would probably get the same poor grades with third-grade materials, so it wouldn't help to move her back.

 

Having her correct her work in a different color is a good idea. I am keeping all of her returned work in a file to use as "evidence."

 

She is actually a very fast worker. Sloppy, but fast. If she gets her homework done in class, she turns it in and doesn't even bring it home, and that often happens. So the teacher gets the unvarnished versions of those assignments. If her assignments take a bunch of time as the year goes on, we'll work on that with the teacher.

 

I've started a spreadsheet where I note things that happen with each assignment -- her reaction/frustration, her willingness to try (or not), and her grade, so when IEP time comes around, I'll have records.

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Sloppy and fast is my DD. We've been working really hard to emphasize quality over quantity by reducing the amount of work. When DD felt like she couldn't get the in-class work done at the same time as other kids, the sloppiness problem/easy mistakes was exacerbated. That's an adjustment both you or the teacher should be able to make unilaterally.

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If you have a copy machine, you could do a before-and-after copy.  I don't know if that is the best idea, but it is an option, that would let you have the record of what is 100% hers.

I thought of this, but I wondered if it would make it confusing for the teacher -- which one to grade? Maybe I could staple them with the "good" copy on top of the first draft.

 

I would respond back to the teacher, and let her know your situation.  Does the teacher have a suggestion for you?

She was in the meeting we had this week, so she knows the status of the evaluations. She didn't speak during the meeting at all but just listened, so it might be a good idea to arrange a parent-teacher meeting to develop a strategy together.

 

For the "one sentence or two" thing -- you have the option of leaving it to the teacher to impose a consequence for that.  I would ask the teacher what a consequence for that might be -- as it is "incomplete" and not "incorrect" and so there might be a school consequence for that.  You have got options there.  You can ask the teacher how he/she would handle it, and then say "I think that sounds great, I am going to leave that to the two of you to work out, but I will support you as the teacher."  Or you can say "I don't think that is ideal."  

 

When her scores are so low, just getting a slightly even-lower score -- this is unlikely to be any kind of a consequence.  

 

I think it would be good to ask that her papers be unmarked as far as a score, and just have some minor corrections.  I think if it was going to help a child to see a low score -- it would already be helping.  

DD10 is feeling sad about her grades. But we've had several talks, and I told her that I wasn't going to be mad about any grades, and that I knew she was working hard. I think her resistance to doing some of the homework was due to feeling like it was futile; that her grade would be poor no matter what, and I'm hoping that continuing to support her emotionally will help. She wants to do well. I knew that poor grades would hit her hard -- I was hesitant to put her in school for this very reason, but there were other good reasons to do it anyway.

 

You can ask the teacher to write any positive comment that is possible.  This is something that has gone SO far for my older son's confidence and feeling that people look past his handwriting.  But -- that is his personality and also his situation is he has got horrible handwriting but otherwise at this point his work is pretty decent.  

Good idea!

 

You should know that the teacher *does not want* to keep writing these poor marks on your daughter's work.  She *does not want to do that.*  Can *the teacher* be brought into the attempt to have the eval done a little quicker?  Or, can *the teacher* say "we have got enough evidence with the homework we have seen so far" and then maybe you don't *really* need to "collect evidence" for the entire 9 weeks?  I would want to hear that from other people, if possible.   You need to know what they are looking for.  Ime -- maybe the teacher is going to bring in an example of one homework assignment and the most recent in-class test or quiz ----- if this is the case ---- you don't need all her homework to be unaided.  

At the meeting, when they said they wanted nine weeks to evaluated, I said, "It's not going to take nine weeks; you are going to see the disability immediately. You will see it this week. We don't think you need that long, and we think she needs extra help ASAP." And the person in charge (the special ed coordinator from the public school) said that if they had all the data they needed sooner that they would consider starting evaluations sooner. So perhaps there is a glimmer of hope that they will agree to move things along faster. Frankly, the PS person was extremely inflexible on the timing issue during the meeting, so I think we would need to have the teacher on our side if asking to expedite things. I can ask the teacher how much evidence she needs to collect and present. Good idea.

 

It does not sound like her work is at an appropriate level when she is missing so many, unless maybe there are a lot of little mistakes?  I would want to sit down with the teacher and let the teacher say what she thinks the nature of the mistakes are showing -- in order to get helpful information.  

I think it is partly adjusting to new curriculum, which is Common Core aligned  :(  She did B work on the tests for her CLE 300 math last year. Of course, she was getting one on one tutoring on all of from me, instead of having to learn it in a class environment. And the NP found that she was doing grade appropriate work for him, which is why he didn't give a math LD. But she is quick and sloppy and doesn't like to check her work (the NP thinks she has ADHD but didn't give an official diagnosis). Executive function is rearing it's head, along with a math disabilty, I think.

 

I will say -- 14/20 on spelling -- that is really good!  My older son failed a trimester of spelling last year (they break out spelling, reading, and writing as separate grades on the report card) and I was happy with how he did and positive about it with him.  He just got too many 6/10s.  And then when you are getting mostly 6/10s with a few 7/10s, it only takes one bad quiz.....  But he is doing good to spell that many words correct, that is with him making, not the hugest effort, but an effort.  

Oh, that would be good! She got 14 wrong! Only 6 correct. This spelling list was a nightmare for her. Words that all have the "a" sound spelled in different ways -- "aye," "a_e," "ai," etc. She totally can't do that, because there is no pattern or reason.

 

I would ask the tutor if you are able.  

 

If your daughter has a personality where she is going to lose heart/confidence from seeing bad scores, then you need to stop it.  But just having the teacher change how she marks her papers could be enough, possibly, depending on your daughter.  I do not know as much about 11-year-olds to be honest.  

I've talked to my daughter a bit about this. She doesn't like thinking that her friends will see her scores as the papers are passed back. I may see if the teacher can put her papers in an envelope, so that DD doesn't even have to look at them but just gives them to me when she gets home.

 

I also think you need to talk to the teacher and figure out what your involvement is going to be longer term.  If in the longer term, you are going to be enforcing homework standards that are reasonable to you and the teacher ----- then I think you should try to start this sooner than later, even if it is gradual, so that in 9 weeks, you are not starting at "zero" for whatever your standard is going to be.  Your standard might be:  a certain amount of work, what you consider a certain amount of effort, a certain amount of time, or something else.  You could enforce that homework is complete, or has been worked on a certain amount of time if it is not complete.  You could continue homework over the weekend even if it won't be graded for school (I have done this if it is for math and my son needs to learn the math).  You have got a lot of options.  

 

I doubt you will be able to get away with not enforcing anything, but there are ways to be so much more hands-off with how you enforce, and leave the other things to the teacher.  

 

So iow -- I would possibly help with the math, or point out a math problem as incorrect.  But I also might almost definitely insist on a second sentence, unless it was just too much work for that night, and then I might continue it.  But my oldest is a young 10, so I think this is going to be changing for me as he gets older.

 

But I think total hands-off is just not a good idea, just b/c it seems like it is easier for kids to be consistent, and it can be easier to relax later in the year than to get more strict.  

 

But I think you could look for things that are appropriate to enforce, and let go of homework that may be really inappropriate, and not have that as what you enforce.  I think it is really possible you will be starting to enforce some kind of routine wrt reviewing the OG tutoring next week -- and if that is the case -- I would not worry so much about the school homework.  The OG homework may be what is really appropriate for her and the place where it makes sense to enforce a standard or a routine, and the school homework may not be that place.  

I agree with this!

 

But I think this is the kind of conversation you can possibly have with the teacher.  She can't exist outside of the overall system she is part of, she doesn't have that option, but she does have options, and opinions, and she may have some good suggestions for you, or at least an understanding of what you need as your "record" when you go in to ask for the evals.  If they are going to look the most at the most recent chapter test plus a standardized test score (which has been my experience one time!) then you do not need the homework record in the same way.  

It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask specifically what she will be turning in as examples to the IEP team. I definitely will ask this question now. Very helpful!

 

I think you have to keep in mind, too, that they are going to ask the teacher her opinion.  You don't want the teacher to say "well no wonder she is behind, the parents don't lift a finger, it is probably not really a SLD but instead a lack of help at home and a lack of the parents valuing education blah blah blah."  You need the teacher to think you are a caring parent who is stuck in this catch-22.  Don't expect her to know this unless you discuss it with her.  She cannot read minds.  Not that I am really worried about this -- I just would go out of my way to not leave this to chance, as a possible impression you might make on this teacher.  B/c she may be a pretty important part of the team that is making recommendations and decisions!  She  may be someone you want on your side!  You may also, hopefully, and this has been my experience, get along better with her as an advocate, b/c she is your daughter's teacher, and sees her every day, and knows her, and sees her struggle in class.  That is just not the case with other people at school.  Other people in the meeting may turn to her and say, "what are you seeing in class, Mrs. So-and-so?"  

Good point. I've been worried about her thoughts on how we as parents are helping at home, because I am normally the kind of parent who would make sure that her kids turn in their very best work every single time. I don't want them to think that we don't care and that the problem is that we didn't teach her during homeschooling over previous years. They need to see that the problem is not lack of teaching or support at home. I've had a really good conversation with the OG intervention specialist already, and I think I really need to do the same with the classroom teacher. I haven't gotten a read on her yet. Our neighbors had the same classroom teacher last year when their child was being evaluated, and they said that she was really on top of things, so hopefully we can figure out a way to be on the same page.

 

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The problem with wanting testing to go more quickly is that you are still going through the public school for testing even if the private school will be providing services. The public school has to prove that they have absolutely exhausted every other possible way of helping a child (ok, I am exaggerating a bit but not that much) before referring for SPED testing. I imagine, that just like parents of kids in public schools, you can bypass this wait time by making a formal request in writing stating that you want the evaluation and why you think your child needs it. Public schools will generally not tell parents that this option exists. I personally have been told that I better not document telling a parent of this option.

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Private religious schools are not legally bound to Wrights Law. The op can place all the written requests for help that she wants, but it does not matter.

 

Don't help your children. Watch them fail so that the school has to intervene because that is the only way the private school will help. If your children squeeze by with low c's, be prepared for your children to receive no helps. I am completely serious, and you have 7 more weeks go. Good luck with that.

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Private religious schools are not legally bound to Wrights Law. The op can place all the written requests for help that she wants, but it does not matter.

 

Don't help your children. Watch them fail so that the school has to intervene because that is the only way the private school will help. If your children squeeze by with low c's, be prepared for your children to receive no helps. I am completely serious, and you have 7 more weeks go. Good luck with that.

 

Public schools are legally required to perform evaluations of children in private school (as well as homeschoolers).  The parent needs to submit a request in writing to the local school district.  The district has 30 days to respond.  

 

However, private schools are under no obligation to help a child with LDs.  Generally, unless it is a private school specifically for children with LDs, private schools aren't a good place for kids with LDs.  Public schools are at least set up for and legally required to help these kids.

 

If you (OP) are wanting your child to attend this school for reasons other than education, you are probably going to need to resign yourself to reteaching all of the lessons at home.  I don't think it is fair to allow a child to fail just to make a point.

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The ps was already at the table and told her they're denying the request to eval upfront, even with psych evals in hand and the private psych at the table saying she needs it, because THEY WANT TO SEE THE CHILD FAIL.  They said it's their bias against homeschoolers and that they will do evals after the child fails one grading period.  

 

I would ask the teacher precisely what she means by help and do only precisely what she says.  She's saying help.  That does not mean stand over the child and correct every single error so she gets 100%.  I think you ARE helping.  No help would be nothing, zilcho, nada.  What you described here was plenty of normal help.  I think you could take it a little farther and say no, you really have to do both things because the paper said to do both things.  That's normal parent help.  But turning a 30 into a 100 is not normal parent help.  Making them do the work (not allowing blanks), telling them there are errors and to go back and check their paper, these are normal helps.  

 

So when the teacher says give help, you ARE giving help.  You're just not RETEACHING or holding her hand through the whole paper and artificially inflating it.  In the Zygotskian theories you look at what a dc can do on their own vs. what they can do with a mentor.  If they can do it with a mentor, it's formative but not solid, not their own yet.  That recognizes there's a continuum between what they can do on their own and what they can do with help.  But as you do more and more "help" and mentoring, you're showing more of what she can do with a mentro and less of what is actually where she's at.  And you're undermining your case at that point.  Normal parent help is not reteaching or holding their hand the whole time to turn a 30 into a 100.  Normal parent help is making them do it till there are no blanks, you rushed go back and check your answers, answering questions when they ask.

 

Don't let the teacher walk all over you and imply things.  You just described a bunch of appropriate help.  I think the teacher is shocked at how much the dc is struggling.  To make it sound like you are giving NO help isn't accurate.  Do not let them paint things inaccurately.

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I hate that kind of spelling list.  Hate, hate, hate.  

 

My son does get leveled spelling lists, so that is better than nothing (and I can't imagine if he didn't get them).  But there are still some really "hit or miss" weeks when the spelling lists just do not make any sense b/c there is no pattern.  

 

Especially when they use the spelling list as vocabulary words they want the kids to learn.  If it was a vocabulary list -- that would be fine, he would be fine with the words as vocabulary words.  But when they are put on a spelling list it is just not reasonable.

 

My son does get 10 words a week (or has in past years) while many other children get 20 words a week.  (There is a regular list, half list, and challenge list.)

 

If your daughter got a half list of ten words, she would be doing about like my son, 6/10.  Which I can really work with, b/c he will have really learned how to spell 3-4 of those 6 words.  He is making improvement. Plus, you are not so far then from 7/10 or 8/10.   

 

This is not an accommodation -- they do it for everyone.  But it is basically an accommodation.  

 

Can you tell how zen I have gotten about school spelling?  I am a great speller myself.  I am a really good speller.  I am not perfect, but I was always a top speller when I was in elementary school.  Now I am looking for progress and reasonable goals.  I am not looking for just blowing over a lot of words and nothing sticking.   

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OhElizabeth is right. I wrote some things to her in a private message, so she knows the whole back story.

 

We submitted an official request for evaluation for an IEP, and the school gave us a prior notice DENYING that there is sufficient evidence of learning disabilities, because even though they have a NP diagnosis of dyslexia for DD (and the NP actually came to this meeting and spoke to them, by the way) and a NP diagnosis for my son, plus a whole pile of other documentation for him on his various disabilities, that until they see the disabilities in the classroom, the paper diagnosis is just a piece of paper. We were irate at the meeting, though we tried to be polite. The public school doing the evaluations won't budge and is insisting that the kids go through the first grading period before evaluating.

 

She said that normally they make homeschoolers entering the school for the first time complete a whole semester before evaluating (I know this is true, because it happened to our neighbors with this same school last year), but she is only making my kids suffer through one grading period because they have NP reports already. It stinks, but we don't think it is worth fighting over. It means they will end up with IEPs in January instead of November. We've resigned ourselves to that. :cursing:

 

We picked this private school purposefully, because we knew that they were willing to work with kids with LDs and would collaborate with the public school to get IEPs in place. They also have an OG trained teacher who will be tutoring DD. They promise they will not just let our kids fall through the cracks during this first nine week "watch" period but will try various intervention strategies with them during that time to "see what works." We already have meetings set up for October at the end of the grading period to reassess whether the public school will agree to evaluate. The PS said that they will begin the 60 day evaluation period immediately at that time,as long as they have classroom data indicating a need to evaluate, and may not need to take the whole 60 days (I'll believe that when I see it).

 

It's even more complicated than that, because this PS will not be the one writing the actual IEP -- that will be done by our district of residence, which is in another town. So there are three schools involved in this whole thing.

 

I told Elizabeth that after less than a week I was ready to cut and run, pull them out. BUT that is my own emotional reaction. In truth, my kids are loving being at school, and I think it is good for them for a lot of non-academic reasons. I think there is absolutely no way that they will not see DD's disabilities. I told them at the meeting that they would see the issues the first week and didn't need a whole grading period :glare: . DS is another kettle of fish, because his disabilities can be hidden, and he can just come across as a low performer who doesn't care about school. We haven't gotten any graded papers back from his teachers yet, so I don't have a handle on how he is doing so far. I feel like a horrible mom saying that I hope he doesn't do well, but he needs to demonstrate his disabilities for them, or they will not see it.

 

I should add that DD10 is loving many parts of school, but her emotional reaction has been varied. She has been quite upset by the poor grades and worrying that her friends will see the scores on her papers. She has been feeling kind of demoralized and has not wanted to try very hard on her homework, because she figures she will fail it anyway. I have to find a balanced way to protect her emotionally while also letting the school see the depth of her issues. I do think that some of her poor grades are as due to her emotions as they are to her disability. Then again, they are tied together. The NP thinks she has ADHD (but didn't diagnose) and will struggle to focus on the things that are hard for her. She is going to want to give up instead of applying herself to difficult things. She's going to rush (she has a 99th percentile processing speed) and be sloppy. So her work is poor partly due to her emotional reactions, and then she has emotional reactions to getting poor grades. :sad:  I hesitated to place her in school, because I predicted this would happen, but there are a whole host of reasons that we decided homeschooling was not a good choice any more, so we are going to have to figure out how to make it work.

 

I worry that sitting back and letting her fail the first quarter will have a long-term negative impact. I have to keep that in mind as we decide what to do. I also don't want it to seem that she is failing because she does not have parental support at home. Ugh. DS11 on the other hand, is more oblivious about his performance. Doing poorly will not affect him in the same way. Also, I'm dealing with helping my other son, DS10, who is not being evaluated but has his own version of struggles, with his homework. He is in the same grade as DD10 but has a different teacher. They bring home the same work. So I've been helping him in a different way than I am helping DD10 on the same work. It adds to my confusion about the best path to take.

 

I have drafted an email to the teacher that explains how we worked with the kids during homeschooling and what the transition to school has been like for DD10 and how I see her emotions and her learning disabilities having an impact. Among other things I suggested that she put DD's graded papers in an envelope before handing them back, so that DD doesn't have to look at them, which also eliminates the chance that the other kids in the class will see DD's grades. She's been very upset about her desk mate peeking at her score and/or asking what DD got. I think we can at least eliminate that embarrassment, which will help DD's emotions. I'm going to have DH read all of your suggestions (THANKS!) and then my email, to see if he thinks I'm making the right suggestions to the teacher.

 

 

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I think you should talk to your daughter about a response to the girl who asks about her grade.  Figure out something she would be comfortable saying, that will shut the topic down.  Maybe there is something else she could bring up to talk about instead.

 

I would also mention this to the teacher, and ask the teacher if she can change how she hands back, or talk to the class about privacy, or something like that.  

 

Hopefully the teacher is on your side here.  

 

All (or almost all) the PS's information about what is happening in the classroom will come from her.

 

I do agree with OhE, too.  Making sure work is complete, saying look over your work.... that is the kind of thing to do.  

 

You can also talk to the teacher about what the expectations are for a child her age -- they may have guidelines at the school, it is possible.  

  

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DD10 cried tonight at bedtime, saying that she doesn't want to go to school any more, because it is too hard. Again. :( :(  :( 

 

On the other hand, DS11 said that he wished tomorrow (Sunday) were a school day, because he loves going to school. :svengo:

 

 

 

 

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Hugs. I realize you are in an extremely challenging position. I don't know what the best solution is in your situation but I think you've gotten some great advice.

 

I just wanted to ask you to consider maybe keeping the other kids in school if they are happy and pulling your daughter out if this continues to deteriorate her emotional state. My kids, three years out from being in school, still carry tremendous emotional scars.

 

I know this is an agonizing position to be in. Hugs again and best wishes.

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That is great it is working out well for your son!

 

I think you need to talk to your daughter's teacher a lot, maybe anyone else at the school, a counselor?  

 

To me, it says something when the PS says "we always wait one semester."  And then, low and behold, they can actually wait only 9 weeks.  

 

It says -- we *can* do all of this stuff faster.  

 

And also -- you can ask about starting to have some supports prior to the evals and official IEP.  

 

The bottom line is ------ your situation has changed now.  You are no longer just a homeschooler asking for evals.  

 

Now you are a current student, and your daughter is showing signs of anxiety.  Her current school needs to work with her.  They can work with her now, make changes now, every single step does not have to wait for the IEP/evals.  

 

There may be some things that can't happen until then.

 

But there are a lot of things that can happen.  

 

We had dealings with the social worker when my older son was in 2nd grade and had similar things.  Now, we personally never got the dyslexia/dysgraphia side addressed (well, we did, he did get OT and the OT was helpful).  But for all the "this thing is making him anxious and not want to come to school" stuff -- things happened when the social worker got involved.  It sounds bad "social worker" like she is working with juvenile delinquents or something.  But she was great.  Also she had a great relationship with my son and he liked to see her and know she was available.  It ended up for us -- that whole period lasted for about 2-3 months, and then he was not seeing her anymore.  

 

But I do wonder -- what things like that they have.  We have things.  They do not want kids to start with school avoidance because it can lead to school refusal and all those anxiety-related things they just do not want kids to progress to.  And I know when these things are not handled well -- it is a reason people homeschool.  But I think it can be handled well.

 

It is weird to go from the "SLD, trying to get evals" side, over to the "anxiety, social worker, counselor" side, but they are related.  And it is how it worked out for us -- we did get a ton of improvement with the social worker side!  But our background is that at this point:  I had been doing home-tutoring with my son, and he had made good progress by then.  I didn't know his handwriting was really an issue.  Then the school didn't see anything wrt his reading, but they saw the handwriting/OT issues.  

 

But when he is happy at school -- that is the big barometer to them.  It is the big barometer to me, too.  

 

But anyway -- I hope you can get something good if you pursue this side?  Tell the teacher you are interested?  Ask around (your neighbors?) and see if they know, or know anyone, who might have been seeing the counselor or social worker?  Maybe write a note to the principal and say you are not sure what the resources are at this school, but you need some help for her.  

 

But see what they can do.  It is really not a good situation, and if it gets worse, you may not want to keep her in school.  

 

It was frustrating for me, because I went in totally feeling like "he has got dyslexia, why do they ignore it."  And then since then, it turns out, my son does not have general anxiety.  But, he could have.  He is prone to situational anxiety and I see it in many situations now.  I also recognize it more, where I didn't before.  My son is also someone who might possibly develop general anxiety as he gets older and has puberty hormones etc.  I did not know any of that before.  But -- it turns out, I can see it now.  

 

But if (and this is likely) it is situational anxiety, and coming from the classroom situation, then the social worker might be somebody who can bump up the eval schedule, or the "putting supports in place" schedule.  That is something a social worker/counselor is likely to do.  And, they may get priority over students like your son who are doing fine day-to-day.  

 

Good luck.   

 

Edit:  I agree with pp.  I think you should be getting answers pretty quickly if they have any kind of system in place to help students who are starting to have anxiety.  It turns out our school does!  We actually (and here I am embarassed) ended up in a kind of "preventing delinquency" program that it turns out is for kids who are showing signs of school avoidance and school refusal ---- but this was like the magic words, people were very motivated to help my son at this point.  And when I say "in a program" == this consisted of me signing a piece of paper, and then my son was able to see the social worker/counselor, and the social worker/counselor having permission to check up on my son and his records and talk to his teacher.  It was not like he was "in a program" in the sense that he did anything very differently.  

 

And I think what this translates into, also, is that "mom says blah blah" doesn't get taken as seriously as if the child tells the counselor and then it is the counselor who reaches the same conclusions and asks for them to happen.  I get good results with me asking, but it is never as good as if the *school OT* or the *school resource teacher* or the *school counselor* are asking/recommending.  

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Ok, here's my take.  Give her normal, appropriate parental support.  (making sure she does the work, leaves no blanks, answering her questions, food and shelter)  Let this go on one week.  Did you DOCUMENT the meeting by emailing a summary, the way the NOLO book says?  I've said this 20 times, but you MUST.  So you let that go one week.  You make that paper trail with the emails.  Remember, if the ps person does not reply to the email with your summary, it STANDS as the representation of what happened in the meeting.

 

And then, after one week of this crap and your paper trail in place, you CALL THE STATE DEPT OF ED.  I've told you, told you, told you you are NOT going to bust through bureacracy (which I can't spell, lol) without calling.  Remember, the state dept of ed is higher rank than this woman who is the sn coor at the ps.  They are higher up the food chain.  So YOU CALL the state dept of ed, you get put on hold.  Or you email them through the link on their site.  And you show them the paper trail:

 

-I made a formal written request

-I have evidence of disabilities in the form of recent evals

-SN coor said she rejects summarily and will not review for 9 weeks

-my dc is failing and overwhelmed

-I made a written request and have evidence, all following the law, and they are IGNORING me

 

Stop letting them pin you in.  This is a FIGHT.  This is not a wait around and think they'll hand you thinks.  The school is the refuser in this game and you are the viking raider. You have to come in willing to FIGHT and make war and make calls and raise CAIN.  

 

So no you're not going to do the homework for her and turn her 30s into 100s.  You're going to email the dept of ed and raise Cain.  This should NOT be happening, it's NOT following the law.  And if it weren't leaving her distraught, it might not even be that big a deal.  But if you're providing normal, reasonable parental support and it's falling apart and the ps is summarily refusing to help, that's time to go up the ladder and complain.  

 

And talk with the teacher.  Get on the same page with each other.  I'm a list maker, so I'd be asking what the precise things are she wants you to do as appropriate, normal parental homework support.  And I'd get her on the same page that she has to stop saying you're doing nothing when you're in fact doing (list all the things).  It's not normal parental support to reteach material or correct things until they get 100.  Most parents don't have the background to do that, therefore it's not normal.  

 

But mainly, I'd start your email to the state dept of ed.  It's going to take them a week to get back to you.  Be VERY precise and concerned and emphatic, not wondering but saying how deeply you're concerned about the concern the inappropriate delay is having on your dd.  The state dept of ed is who can help you.

 

When it is obvious you're willing to be bullied, not going to call a lawyer, not going to pursue your rights, not going to call the dept of ed in on them, you WILL NOT get things.  I'm just saying.  You MUST remind them of the law, you MUST fight, and you MUST contact the dept of ed and many, many times.  It's just how it is.  It's why so many kids who need IEPs DON'T get them.  You must fight.

 

PS.  I like Lecka's idea of the counselor.  I just don't know if a cs will have that.  But I'm saying, whether they do or not, this is serious and not something you should have to be passive about or a victim in.  The state dept of ed has the default position that the child is more important than the rules or paperwork.  You can also email the SN coor and update them.  But personally, I wouldn't email that person *until* you've written the state dept of ed and gotten a reply.  You need someone in your corner.

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Btw, I'm being really emphatic about this, but I know someone who had much more serious labels who never got her paperwork pushed through and got totally jerked around in the same city where you are.  Maybe not the same school, but close.  I don't know what it is about this area.  I'm just saying DON'T trust them and don't assume they're there to help, because they're NOT.  That person didn't call the state dept of ed, and I've been told it's a necessary step, that if you don't in this area you get jerked around.  Our ps was, shall we say, a little slow on compliance till I called the dept of ed a bunch of times.

 

I'm sorry this is hard.  When it's OVER, it will be worth it.  I love that I can finally afford to get my ds therapies and I'm not going bankrupt over it.  Every time I walk into that therapy room and don't have to bleed and hand over so much money, I thank G*d.  And every time I drive through areas where other people pay taxes so I can have this and my ds can have this, I'm thankful.  I mean, it's sort of a weird position to be in, wanting to be independent, needing help, begging for help, FIGHTING for help.  But you really do have to fight.  And the irony is you're not fighting the top levels.  You're fighting some person and system in your own backyard, really close, someone who is low level who uses this power to just twist people around and be on a power trip.  And sometimes their power trip is AGAINST THE LAW and ILLEGAL.  And you have to understand the RIGHTNESS of fighting this.  They're doing this to you because they're breaking the law.  And it's a question of how hard you're willing to fight when someone breaks the law.  I think sometimes it's ok to roll along and be congenial, and sometimes that results in harm.  Sometimes all it takes is one well-written email to the state dept of ed, laying it all out.  Make sure you say your town and the school districts you're dealing with.  Name names.  This is about the law, what the lawmakers intended, and harm that is coming because employees are not following the law.  It's a righteous cause and it's right to fight.  

 

Adding: You can even ask in your email: is this SN coor following the law requiring this?  These are the kinds of questions the Dept of Ed can easily answer.  It takes them a week, because they have to funnel it to the right person.  But I guarantee you when you write an email saying my dc seems to be incurring harm because this school official (you think) is not following the law, that is GOING to get some traction.

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DD10 cried tonight at bedtime, saying that she doesn't want to go to school any more, because it is too hard. Again. :( :(  :(

 

On the other hand, DS11 said that he wished tomorrow (Sunday) were a school day, because he loves going to school. :svengo:

I'm so sorry she's having a hard time.   :(   Can you write the teacher an email or give her a call and see what she says?  I doubt they want her overwhelmed and discouraged either.  

 

What, in reality, is the solution?  Like I know you want the IEP and the scholarship.  But what is the SCHOOL going to do about it?  What are they able to change to make this work better?  Can you bring the principal in on this?  It would be nice if your principal called and gave the ps person a what-for about the delay.  I don't know that it would make much difference, but it would be part of that using everyone in the circle...

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I have a few things I have to do this afternoon (grocery, etc) before I can reply, but I just wanted to pop in to say I've read the recent responses, and I'm thinking about them.

 

BTW, we just did her science and math homework pages for tomorrow. She was so upset when we first sat down that I had to make her take a break almost as soon as we began. Then I helped her by reading and talking through it all but didn't give her the right answers. She crossed most of her first answers off and wrote new answers. Maybe half of them were still wrong. She said she was done, so we quit. She wrapped it all up with tears and another "I don't want to go to school" statement.

 

More later.

 

 

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I have a few things I have to do this afternoon (grocery, etc) before I can reply, but I just wanted to pop in to say I've read the recent responses, and I'm thinking about them.

 

BTW, we just did her science and math homework pages for tomorrow. She was so upset when we first sat down that I had to make her take a break almost as soon as we began. Then I helped her by reading and talking through it all but didn't give her the right answers. She crossed most of her first answers off and wrote new answers. Maybe half of them were still wrong. She said she was done, so we quit. She wrapped it all up with tears and another "I don't want to go to school" statement.

 

More later.

I'm sorry this is so hard.  It sounds like she made a great effort there!  Can you take the focus off the school (where the reward is good grades) and reward her NOW for the serious effort she's making NOW?  When something is super hard for my ds, I kick in with super good rewards, payoff, because I know that can help him do what his maturity might not allow him yet to do.  It's a lot for her to comprehend this process and suck it up, but she might comprehend ice cream cones, frosties, $1 for each homework page completed that you earn as credit to save toward this awesome $50 thing you wanted...  

 

To me, what she did was so amazing there, I'd be praising that up and rewarding it big time.  That way it might matter less that school is crunchy and she could be cynical in a protective way.  Or my psychology is bad and pay no attention to me.  I'm just saying redefine success, add a lot more praise, and don't let the school alone define what successful is to her if you can help it.  

 

It's a temporary thing.  Over the top praise and rewards would not be forever, just to get her through this.

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Lecka, I think you are right about asking for some counseling. I was thinking the same thing myself before I read your post. Because it is a private school, I don't know if we will have access to the public school psychologist, but I'll ask. The psychologist will play a major role in the evaluation process, so it would be good to connect with him/her to discuss DD's reaction to failing.

 

DD10 asked me for a private talk after supper, and she sobbed and asked why she has to go to school; why she is different from everyone else; why she fails at everything; why does she feel so angry; why is everything so hard; why can't she quit; why doesn't her brain work :sad: . I talked to her quite a bit, explaining and reassuring, but I don't know how much she absorbed while she was crying. I have the feeling that we will be repeating this conversation many times.

 

Her teacher sent her home on Friday with some blank copies of last week's math worksheets that she could redo for half credit (she made sure to mention that it was optional), along with another page we could use for extra practice. DD10 doesn't want to do them. Merely thinking of it makes her cry. I'm not insisting.

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Does she have SLD math as well, or is she inappropriately placed?  Why is the math so hard for her?

 

I know, one of the luxuries of homeschooling is normalizing the world for kids who are totally out of sync with the world.  Right now my ds has NO CLUE how radically different he is.  He only just figured out he wasn't the same age as the other kids in his preschool swim class, oops.  And after he figured it out, he decided he wanted to be back there anyway.   :)

 

Sigh.  So was the ps SN coor saying she'd make a homeschooler wait 6 months after they applied, even if they aren't enrolling?  See here's the joke of it.  You can take her out, homeschool her, and as soon as the scholarship application window opens you apply for the scholarship and use THAT to force the ps to eval.  No matter what they have to eval.  This whole we make you wait 6 months junk is breaking the law.  

 

Ask the dept of ed whether you're able to apply for the scholarship when you're in a private school before getting the IEP.  That was what I found as the loophole, that homeschoolers were allowed to apply before the IEP was completed.  I *think* maybe private schools also.   They're not going to tell you that (the schools).  To find that you have to look at the scholarship legislation, the law itself.  Took me bleary hours and somehow I figured it out.  

 

It sounds like your teacher is doing good things, letting her redo the problems for half credit, etc.  That seems pretty normal.  But is she correctly placed?  Why is she having such a hard time?  I thought she was dyslexic plus ADHD, no other SLD?

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Elizabeth, thanks for the reminder about sending a follow up email. I actually wrote one, but wanted to go over it with DH before sending it and still had it in my draft box. We spent a lot of time revising and rewriting it today to say exactly what we thought was necessary. In the prior written notice refusing evaluations, the PS coordinator included her own little summary of the meeting, and we did not want that to stand as the only record of what happened.

 

We tried to keep the tone of our email businesslike, not hostile, emotional, or accusatory, but we did state emphatically that we still disagree with the delay in evaluations. We also put in there that she commented during the meeting that she had not yet seen the pile of documents that we had submitted (the Christian school had not forwarded them and was making copies for her as the meeting started). She stated at the meeting that the public school denied evidence of disability and intended to issue the prior written notice of refusal,  although she had not even read the information we had submitted. She only glanced at a couple of pages. (We submitted multiple many-page documents.)

 

It was obvious that their method is to automatically deny evaluations to homeschoolers who are entering the school system for the first time. She said as much outright. I asked if they would consider information that I have to offer as their former teacher, and she told me it wouldn't count; they had to have a classroom teacher's input. (It is impossible for this to be true under the law, because the schools must evaluate homeschoolers who are not enrolled; they may ask the homeschoolers to have teachers work with the children, but certainly not daily for nine weeks or a semester).

 

My understanding from reading the NOLO book is that denying the request without reading the submitted evidence is a violation of IDEA, so we made sure to point out in our email that she told us she would deny the request before she had read the documents. Her wording in the prior notice is that the school refuses because "based on a team meeting and review of the record, the district is unable to suspect a disability at this time." It makes me super angry just to read that again. She also lists that she made her decision after reviewing the NP report (not true). Yet then in another section of the form she reports that we still need to submit the "psychoeducational assessment," as if she did not have it yet. We submitted it already. How can she say that she based her decision on reading it if she did not have it? Crazy. We pointed out in our email that she already had the full report in her possession.

 

After our initial shock last Monday when we were told there was no evidence of disability, we calmed ourselves down by reminding ourselves that we should have IEPs in place in January, compared to getting them in November if the district were adhering to the proper timing under the law. It didn't seem worth fighting over that amount of time. But now that DD10 is having such a struggle, the sooner we can get an IEP in place for her, the better.

 

Elizabeth, you wondered what the school would be able to do for her that would help. I know that our neighbor's daughter., who is at this same private school, is being pulled out of her math class and getting a private daily math class with a specially selected curriculum at her appropriate level (which is two to three years below her grade level) with an intervention teacher. Right now the only way that DD10 can get OG tutoring is by having private tutoring (paid by us out of pocket) by the intervention teacher two times a week after school. I would request that the IEP should stipulate that she receive pull-out OG reading and spelling instruction daily as part of school (not as after-school tutoring). I don't know if we can get that much, but we can ask, and the OG tutor told me she would be weighing in on the IEP, so that's good. DD probably also needs an in-class aide during math, because she cannot follow what is written on the board well enough to learn what the teacher is teaching. The NP also suggested that she be allowed to use notecards that list the general steps for completing math problems during tests. She should be allowed to use a calculator for math and recorded books for reading. Etc. etc. She is not going to get any of these things regularly unless they are stipulated in an IEP. The school wants to help her and will try various intervention strategies before the IEP is in place, but these are things that she just won't have access to until the IEP is completed. So I think the sooner the better for her.

 

My son is a different matter. I haven't seen any of his graded work yet but should get a folder of it tomorrow. I think having them observe him over the first quarter might be okay, because his disabilities are going to take longer for the classroom teacher to understand. He can fly under the radar and appear to be more NT than he is, and I want to be sure they understand him and his needs. They are more complex, and they affect his overall performance, but its harder to predict what he will look like in the classroom, so I don't know how they will come out. I gave his two teachers a long list of his diagnosed disabilities so that they know what to look for and may understand better what they are seeing instead of just thinking of him as a general under-performer.

 

We may very well push the school to evaluate DD10 sooner but allow them to take more time with DS11. We'll see.

 

I am going to contact the state department of education. I asked them a question a few weeks ago and got a response, so I have an email contact, and I can ask her if the school is circumventing the law. I think it is fairly obvious that they are. We thought the private school would be willing to push the public school on our behalf, but they seem willing to go along with the public school's plan. Of course, they want to stay on good terms with the PS, because they work with them regularly.

 

I'm also going to contact the special ed department of our school district of residence, because they will actually write the IEP after the other school district has finished evaluations and, therefore, have in interest in what is going on with our family. I'll see if I can get any information from them about how they deal with homeschoolers entering their system for the first time, either if they enroll, or if they are continuing to homeschool. If worse came to worst, I could pull DD10 out of the current school and have her evaluated by our district of residence. I don't want to do that, but it's a choice we have.

 

Honestly, DD has been asking to be pulled out. Sigh. I predicted she would have trouble with being graded, but I had no idea it would be this bad for her. I'm sad. I'm still hopeful that she is having an intense first/second week reaction and that she will not continue to be so upset after she settles in a bit. She is a very dramatic and emotional person generally, so she has extreme highs and lows with her reactions to everything. She either hates it or loves it. But I might be wrong about this being temporary. That's why I think talking to a counselor is a good idea. I asked DD if she would like to talk to someone at the school about her feelings and her desire to quit, and she wanted to know if I could call someone tonight.

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Hugs. I realize you are in an extremely challenging position. I don't know what the best solution is in your situation but I think you've gotten some great advice.

 

I just wanted to ask you to consider maybe keeping the other kids in school if they are happy and pulling your daughter out if this continues to deteriorate her emotional state. My kids, three years out from being in school, still carry tremendous emotional scars.

 

I know this is an agonizing position to be in. Hugs again and best wishes.

 

Thanks, OneStep. I hate the idea that this could cause long-term damage, but I realize it is possible, and I'll do everything I can to protect her from that. The staff at the private school really are very nice and caring people who want to help, so I'm hoping this is a hump we will get over. DD has always struggled with reading, of course, but until she started at school, I'm sure she thought of herself as smart. Failing has been a huge blow. I also didn't realize how poorly she would do without the kind of help she's had from me at home. She was getting A's and B's on her CLE math tests, for example, so getting F's in math was not something any of us expected. (They don't write "F" on the paper. But she knows. Because she's smart.).

 

I didn't know it would be this bad. My first reaction was to pull all of the kids out and run far far away. But I'm reminding myself that there were very good reasons that we chose to enroll in school this year, and very good reasons that we chose this particular school, and I think we should give it a bit of time to see if can be sorted out. But not a lot of time.  If she is suffering and not just going through the shock of adjusting, we'll pull her out.

 

I should probably tell the school we are thinking of pulling her. They won't want to give up on her personally yet, and it would hit their bottom line with the loss of tuition (not to mention that we have three kids there, so they would have to wonder if they would lose tuition times three), so it might spur them to act more quickly to get the evaluations done. Maybe that's a crass way of looking at it, but the school is a business, after all.

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I don't know if I mentioned this in my huge long emails, but we did send a very long email to DD's classroom teacher with suggestions of things that she might do to help (many of them from you all, thanks!) and an explanation of how we worked with her in homeschooling in the past and what we are doing to help her with her homework currently. I don't think there is any way that she could possibly see that we are too uninvolved at home after reading my message. I kind of flooded her with information and suggestions, and I copied it to the intervention team.

 

Oh, DD has been asking me to order her a uniform shirt in a certain color. I told her they were on sale and that I could get one for her. Her response was that she didn't want it, because she didn't want to go to school there any more. :(  Did I mention that her best friends go there and that she has been super excited about attending their school (she is an extrovert)? Even that has not made her want to stick it out.

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A homeschooling parent arrives at the school, to enrol a child in a wheelchair.

Requesting that the accommodation of 'wheelchair access' be provided for their child.

But the school says that, they will first need to do an assessment by their teacher?

To assess whether they really need this accommodation?

Which will be carried out over a 9 week period.

Where the child will need to leave their wheelchair at the door.

Then make an attempt to get across the classroom to their desk, and get into their seat ?

 

After 9 weeks of observations from the teacher?

The teacher may recommend an evaluation, to determine whether some accommodations may be justified?

Based on the grading of their schoolwork.

Where accommodations could involve structural changes to the doorway, to provide wheelchair access?

Or perhaps providing a desk closer to the door?

 

This teacher observation period was then commenced.

But the child came home saying that it was too hard !

That they felt really humiliated in front of other students !

They didn't want to go back to the school anymore!

 

Though the teacher reported that forcing the student to sort of crawl across the room and struggle to get into their chair?

Didn't have an impact on the students grades, which they were passing.

So that their was no need for an evaluation to provide accommodations for wheelchair access?

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Have you tried sharing the NP report with the classroom teacher?  Maybe she could get the in-class supports now.  I can see her not being able to get the appropriate level of class, but the steps written out she can do.  Can the classroom teacher copy out a template for her before class to look at during the lecture?  Can she copy something from her manual for her to look at?  Can she copy her notes?  These are things where I would be asking the teacher, "if you need permission, whose permission do you need?"  Is it the principal?  The principal can DEFINITELY say yes.  It is just not true that a school official like that "has to wait for an IEP."  If a school official like that won't do something without an IEP, then yes, the IEP is there for protection.  But it is just not true that "this can't be done without an IEP."  Ask for it, if you are told no, ask who you need to talk to.  Have that page open and point out the recommendation.  

 

Then, to let you know, here you would probably not speak to a school psychologist here early about something like this.  They are a really separate job from counselor/social worker here.  They do evals, they might do behavior plans, they might observe a child in the classroom.  They are not the person who is actually "counseling" a child or doing a cognitive-behavior therapy program or having the friendly office, building the relationship with the  child, etc, that kind of thing.  

 

So locally at least -- that would never be the same person.

 

But a counselor/social worker would still be involved in the IEP process.  

 

Also ime the school psychologist has never been the "case manager" at any of my kids' IEPs.  He gives his information and writes up his section of the IEP (each person writes up their section).  (And usually we do not get a "school psychologist section" -- it is not somebody I expect to have much contact with or that I consider crucial -- it is just an informative section of the IEP at times........ and my older son was declined testing by the school psychologist based on his test scores.... and it has never been needed for my daughter with just minor articulation errors and a fast speech rate...... I have seen him in one IEP meeting for my son where he was very nice and had some very helpful comments for me but said he was declining to do educational testing b/c he thought the OT eval was giving us the results we needed, and he had a not-horrible score on MAP testing........ then for my younger son we had a section where the school psychologist came and observed my little son and tried to administer some testing in conjunction with the pre-school teacher but as this was prior to him starting ABA my son did not comply with any of the testing and so they couldn't get a normed score for him.)  

 

So anyway -- ime this is not a person that, where I live, I look towards as a helpful, chatty person so much.  That is not the role or personality they have here.  Though both of the ones I have met have been nice -- they are somebody I will never see outside of a random IEP meeting and they are not somebody who will be involved with my kids or follow my kids.  Maybe for a different child or certain issues they do follow them more -- but not with my kids, not at all, and they are not the case manager.  

 

The case manager, whoever that may be, does not write the whole IEP or decide what is in it ----- but that is going to be the contact person and the person (or a main person) who is involved with your child.  Just btw.  

 

My point is just -- right now you need the school psychologist to do the eval.  But that person may be like a ghost!  They are also often booked 2 months in advance here, just because that is how they are scheduled.  I don't know (but I imagine b/c everyone else seems to) if they keep some blanks in their schedule in case of a crisis situation, or if they sometimes bump another kid for a crisis.  But here that person is booked up doing evals, from my understanding, and that is about all he does.  Ours goes to multiple schools in our district.  

 

So in *our local situation* this is not the person I would try to expect to be an advocate for my son or to be someone I would build a relationship with of any kind ----- it is just not that person.  But if you can find out who the IEP case manager would be, here that would be a person like that.  A classroom teacher would definitely be like that.  Possibly the principal (ours is busy and he has only come to my younger son's IEP meeting when it was his first one and he wanted to meet me and hear about him).  But if there is an assistant principal who attends IEP meetings ---- that turns out to be a woman I see at most of these meetings (she attends IEPs as an administrator as part of her job).  A school counselor would be that way, too.  I just see her in the hallway now, but I talked to her several times back when my son was in 2nd grade and she is a person who makes time to talk to parents and figure things out.  The resource teacher is that way for my younger son, massively like that, she gives out her home phone number, etc.  

 

So I am just sharing that -- it can be hard b/c from reading books, certain jobs are mentioned all the time -- but that has not turned out to be "people I have actual contact with."  If that makes sense.  

 

I also have got a cooperative school district in most ways, so I do not have the experience of getting treated poorly like this.  

 

But I think you should make sure to keep separate "who is telling you what, who can do this and that."  I have an impression like there are numerous things you can get without the IEP (all the supports and classroom accommodations that are on the easier side) and without it (the one-on-one tutoring, the different class).  You also need to keep in mind that you can get a lot of things without the IEP.  Ask for it.  Don't think you have to wait for the IEP.  Talk to the teacher and the principal.  

 

Ime when my older son had already been getting certain supports prior to his IEP meeting, the way it went in the meeting was "he did well with these supports when they were offered by his teacher on a trial basis?  stick them in, that is good, we don't have to check back to see if that works or not."  

 

So they don't *have* to offer them on a trial basis, but they *can* because why couldn't they?  And maybe you can spin it as "we are trying out the IEP things so it is less work and we don't have to amend the IEP."  That is how it was spun for us ----- nobody wants to have to have a 2nd IEP meeting to amend an IEP, they all think it is a pain, and would rather have the information ahead of time and just write it in the IEP.   

 

Separately ---- anxiety is a real thing and is its own thing.  Probably this is situational anxiety from the known issues.  But it is still anxiety!  It is a big deal and I hope that you can get help for her for that.  The anxiety is something that leads to help for SLDs for many kids -- it is an avenue, b/c in treating for anxiety, they will (or should) look for the cause of the anxiety, and this is a known possible cause they would want to investigate, if they are doing a good job.  

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Ok, I'm jumping down here and replying to the first half of your very long reply!  :)  

 

Yes, yes, yes, PLEASE get that email sent.  THAT is powerful.  You MUST do that.  You must not allow her written summary of the meeting to stand.  Drawing that line---> you said we didn't submit evidence but we did, you denied before reading what we submitted, you violated the law...  THIS is important.  Send the letter and wait for a reply.  Like one day.  And call the dept of Ed.  You must, must, must, must.  This should change NOW, and you might be able to get it to change NOW.  It's called violating the law, and the dept of ED is her BOSS.  They are the enforcers.

 

No, getting an IEP completed in Jan is not acceptable.  I keep saying this, but ask the dept of ed for the law on when you may apply for the scholarship as someone in a private school.  Be specific.  Do you have to have your IEP completed, or can you be in process with an ETR, does the ETR need to be completed, or do you have to merely have *evidence* of the disability and can let the scholarship application DRIVE the IEP process, REQUIRING the ps to eval.

 

Legally, there is enough time in the scholarship application window that you can apply for the scholarship and the school can complete the ETR.  If they do that in the application window, they'll finish the IEP before the end of the quarter, enabling you to be qualified.  You do NOT have to wait around.  Talk with the dept of ed.  I'm telling you you have more power than you know.  You apply for the scholarship through a provider, NOT the ps.  

 

Now to read the rest of your stuff.  And I'm sorry it's going to suck your time calling the state dept of ed.  Everything there takes a week to get an answer.  Email them if you want.  The scholarship has an email on their page.  You can take your scholarship questions through them, like asking what has to be completed to apply, etc.  Read the law.  Don't assume the schools are telling you the precise, specific truth.  They're not lawyers.  The law is very plain.  

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Yes, it's even more direct than that.  The ps people talk with the dept of ed.  I'm just telling you they do.  So when you contact your person at the dept of ed and you lay it out straight alleging a law violation, they're going to get a phone call.  And more than that, when you talk with the dept of ed their next question is whether you have yet filed the complaint form.  So go to the website and find it and call that office.  Ask 'em straight, at what point can I file?  I think I need to file now because they have refused to look at my evals even and broke the law.  There's a complaint form at the dept of ed.  

 

Bam, found it.  Due process complaint  https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Special-Education/Federal-and-State-Requirements/Procedures-and-Guidance/Procedural-Safeguards/Due-Process-Complaints

 

USE the law.  When you contact the dept of ed and say they violated the law, this raises eyebrows.  

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Ok, so basically the cs is telling you the unfortunate truth, that if they give disability interventions before an IEP is in place they're undermining your argument.  So you file the due process complaint alleging a violation of the law and you get aggressive.

 

The happy thing is, YOU are not going to have to be aggressive.  It's more like assertive.  When you assert your rights under the law and call in the dept of ed, the dept of ED is going to give the ps the whatfor.  THEY are going to be aggressive on your behalf.  You just have to be willing to file the paperwork and complain and ask them to.  

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No, I would not write your district of residence asking them legal and procedural questions.  All you're doing there is pitting one power trip against another.  It won't get you anywhere and may backfire.  The state dept of ed is where you take your legal questions.  Clarify the law with them, get it in writing, and file the due process complaint.

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Yes, since you said it, I would pull her out.  I think your dd is incurring severe harm in this process.  If you pull her out, notify as a homeschooler, you are legally able to apply for the JP through a provider WITHOUT the IEP/ETR.  This I know for a fact.  So the day you pull her out is the day everything improves.  I didn't want to say it, because you were needing the sanity.  So whether your district of residence wants to delay or not, you WILL get the evals done and an ETR and be able to push the process by applying for the JP.  

 

So yes, honestly, I would pull her out.  I'm not you.  I'm just saying I agree.  Tell the school you adore them but you can't keep her in a situation with no accommodations when it's creating severe harm.  She can go back in Jan with the scholarship and the proper supports in place.

 

I think it's phenomenal that your ds is doing so well btw.  It might be that the *structure* of school (structure being a buzzword in your psych report) is super good for him.  I'm really excited for you about that.  And if it's working, it's working.  Still I would find the due process complaints with the dept of ed.  I would file for BOTH.  That way it's doubly, egregiously evident that this person violated the law.  USE the law.

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No, I wouldn't tell the cs you're thinking of pulling her, but that's because this is business.  I would file the due process complaint with the dept of ed, get the dept of ed people working for you, and then make your decision.  Reality is, she won't have an IEP this semester.  The reality is, even if they start now she won't have an IEP and interventions till January for all practical purposes.  And in her situation, that SUCKS.

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I don't know if I mentioned this in my huge long emails, but we did send a very long email to DD's classroom teacher with suggestions of things that she might do to help (many of them from you all, thanks!) and an explanation of how we worked with her in homeschooling in the past and what we are doing to help her with her homework currently. I don't think there is any way that she could possibly see that we are too uninvolved at home after reading my message. I kind of flooded her with information and suggestions, and I copied it to the intervention team.

 

Oh, DD has been asking me to order her a uniform shirt in a certain color. I told her they were on sale and that I could get one for her. Her response was that she didn't want it, because she didn't want to go to school there any more. :(  Did I mention that her best friends go there and that she has been super excited about attending their school (she is an extrovert)? Even that has not made her want to stick it out.

I would pull her out.  It's clearly an environment she can't function in with her disabilities when they're not giving her interventions and supports.  They can't do it without the IEP.  So you pull her out for a semester, get the IEP, then go back if you want.  OR, get the IEP and  scholarship and take her to a dyslexia-specific school. Your scholarship will work there.  Or call that dyslexia-specific school today and ask them what they suggest.  Seriously, that would be a really good course of action.  Might feel a little frenetic, driving to two schools.  I'm just saying with the severity of what you're describing she needs an environment that fits her, a place intended to build UP dyslexics, not a place where she's always 2nd class compared to the other kids.  I wouldn't put my ds in that environment, no matter how christian it is, because it's inherently going to be a place of FAILURE for him.  It sounds like she needs all her instruction from people who get dyslexia, not just 20 minutes of afterschool OG.

 

 

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I wrote an email to the school principal about her anxiety today and reiterated that I think delaying the IEP is having a harmful effect. I didn't hit "send' yet, because I want to talk to DD after school to see if today went any better. And I want to give the classroom and intervention teachers a chance to respond to the suggestions in my email, which I sent Friday evening. I'd like to see if anything can be done differently this week that will make a difference for her. I think if we can get over the initial academic failure trauma that there is potential for her to be happy going to school there. I want to give the school a chance. We do have other options, though, and if we can't protect DD emotionally, we will figure out our Plan B.

 

Okay, I'll admit it. I'm nervous about notifying the department of ed with an official complaint, because I fear it will increase the tension between us and the PS special ed coordinator. She already responded to the email that we sent last night. In part, it says, "I trust I explained sufficiently...the need to have some evidence that DS and DD are experiencing difficulty in school, and that this difficulty may be attributable to a possible disability -- rather than an initial adjustment to a completely new circumstance for them....This in no way discounts your very detailed observations of your children, nor the information provided by outside providers." Then she says they are also "very happy to consider" information I may provide from my experience homeschooling them (in the meeting she said that any such information would not count, and we had pointed that out in our email).

 

She also says, "I did not review their files ahead of time" (she admits it in writing!) and explains that it was because the private school had not given them to them and because we had not yet signed a permission form for the private school to share information with the public school. A couple of problems with this. First, she TOLD US SHE WOULD ISSUE A DENIAL BEFORE READING THE DOCUMENTS. Second, our request for evaluations was actually ADDRESSED TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL, which shows we wanted them to have it. The envelope was also marked "time sensitive IEP materials" in big letters on the outside. (The private school told us to hand it in to them, and that they would pass it on; I guess we should not have listened to them and should have turned it directly in to the public school ourselves).  However, the public school not having time to read the file is not our fault and is actually NOT TRUE. She should have told us at the meeting that she would read the file and decide later whether evaluations had been approved or refused. There were still several days left before the end of the school's 30 day limit for responding, so she had time to read the documents before making her determination. She walked into the meeting knowing she was going to deny our request.

 

Honestly, just looking at her response there -- I am confident that her classroom teacher can already say there is "evidence that there may be a disability." It's so obvious. To deny it would be ridiculous. When we talk to the principal about the anxiety, I'm going to bring this up. They don't need nine weeks to see the disability. Ridiculous.

 

Argh. Just making myself angry again. I need to go do something productive. And pray!

 

 

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A homeschooling parent arrives at the school, to enrol a child in a wheelchair.

Requesting that the accommodation of 'wheelchair access' be provided for their child.

But the school says that, they will first need to do an assessment by their teacher?

To assess whether they really need this accommodation?

Which will be carried out over a 9 week period.

Where the child will need to leave their wheelchair at the door.

Then make an attempt to get across the classroom to their desk, and get into their seat ?

 

After 9 weeks of observations from the teacher?

The teacher may recommend an evaluation, to determine whether some accommodations may be justified?

Based on the grading of their schoolwork.

Where accommodations could involve structural changes to the doorway, to provide wheelchair access?

Or perhaps providing a desk closer to the door?

 

This teacher observation period was then commenced.

But the child came home saying that it was too hard !

That they felt really humiliated in front of other students !

They didn't want to go back to the school anymore!

 

Though the teacher reported that forcing the student to sort of crawl across the room and struggle to get into their chair?

Didn't have an impact on the students grades, which they were passing.

So that their was no need for an evaluation to provide accommodations for wheelchair access?

 

YES!!!

 

 

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Story, you are a person who likes to avoid conflict, so I understand why this concerns you.  No, I don't think calling the dept of ed will cause problems.  It's actually just the opposite.  I think it could resolve this pretty quickly.  Your analysis is clear and the violation of the law is clear.  The person at the ps is going to respond professionally when the dept of ed gives them the whatfor, because they LOSE THEIR JOB IF THEY DON'T.  People lose their jobs over this stuff.  

 

The other outcome you can have, by writing the dept of ed, is to have IN WRITING persuasive evidence.  So you just forward it to the school saying dept of ed wrote me back, this is the law, this is what they said, I want to see if we can move this forward.  Bam, done.  That's what I did.  I never did have to file a complaint.  I just told the ps the reply and the ps jumped.  Before they were like total quicksand.  

 

And be charitable about it.  Maybe the SN coor has forgotten the law.  Maybe this is a less common situation for her.  You're helping her comply with the law by making sure everyone knows the law.  See it's really easy to assume they know the law and are intentionally violating it, but seriously I think the laws are so nuanced, with so many situations (as you know!), that these people just can't keep up.  So you're HELPING the SN coor comply with the law by reminding her of the law and by clarifying it with the dept. of ed.  You wouldn't want her to lose her job because she didn't know the law and you didn't help her remember.  :D

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That's good that the SN coor wrote you back so quickly.  She's jumping.  She knows her butt is in trouble.  So bring in the LAW.  Find the law, copy it, send it with a cc email to EVERYBODY who was at the table.  The case manager's boss is the ps principal.  Was the principal there?  Go up the food chain.  And while you're gathering that, get that clarification from the dept of ed.  She knows she's in trouble and it's time to PLUNGE THE SWORD.

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I am not following the whole thread right now because I am super busy today. Another group that should be able to help you work through the finer points is School Choice Ohio. They are the group that helped get the scholarships in place, and they told me that they can help a parent navigate some of this stuff. 

 

http://www.scohio.org/school-options/choose-school-options/private-school/ohioscholarships/ 

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I should probably tell the school we are thinking of pulling her. They won't want to give up on her personally yet, and it would hit their bottom line with the loss of tuition (not to mention that we have three kids there, so they would have to wonder if they would lose tuition times three), so it might spur them to act more quickly to get the evaluations done. Maybe that's a crass way of looking at it, but the school is a business, after all.

 

I would give them ONE day to fix things (ONE day, not two days, not one and a half days), and if not fixed, then pull your daughter out.

 

Since your other children are so far happy, apparently, I would not pull them out yet, but I would let the school know, very clearly, that you are thinking of doing so if they do not get appropriate evaluations, help, etc. fairly promptly because you do not want them to end up in the sort of state that your daughter is already in.

 

If you tend to want to avoid conflict, make sure you are totally clear.

 

I started to get offers of help from a private school my ds was at, but much too little and much too late...as in, only after I had already decided to pull him out, not when I was still trying to work with them to help him.  Apparently the school and my ds's teacher did not take the situation seriously until it was too late.

 

Or based on my experience, another option would be to pull her out and see if they then offer help to try to get her back...but if she wants to be out of there it will probably be too late the moment you announce that you are pulling her.

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Or based on my experience, another option would be to pull her out and see if they then offer help to try to get her back...but if she wants to be out of there it will probably be too late the moment you announce that you are pulling her.

 

 

Or, giving them another chance could be dependent not only on them making promises to you, but convincing her also that they are going to be doing things very very differently.

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I sent the principal a message today saying that DD has been distraught and is asking to be pulled out, and asked to arrange a meeting to discuss things. She responded asking us to give it another week, so that the teachers have time to work with her and she has time to adjust to a new learning situation. I haven't responded to her yet.

 

DD's response when I told her what they said (she asked about it) -- "That's not it. It's not about adjusting. The work is too hard." I thought that was surprisingly astute. I hadn't said anything like that to her but had presented the principal's idea about waiting positively.

 

DD has her first tutoring session withe the OG intervention teacher tomorrow. This teacher has dyslexia herself, and seems to be a very gentle and approachable person, so I'm hoping she will be a good match for DD and will understand her feelings. I'm going to see how tomorrow goes before pushing things further. I'd like to have this teacher's perspective.

 

Today did go a bit better, by the way. She brought home a few papers with better scores, and she was excited about some things that happened with her friends. The principal mentioned in her email that DD had seemed to have a good day. I told DD that I was glad she had a better day, and she quickly turned to tears again. All the schoolwork was terrible, she said. The only good part was seeing her friends. We'll see how the tutoring goes tomorrow. We're taking it day by day, and I'll push on having the meeting sooner if things don't keep improving.

 

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I don't think you need to wait a week.  

 

I totally see where the principal is coming from, because I have things with my older son, where he is very upset and cries etc, and then after a week he has made a friend and adjusted, and it all blows over.  

 

But nothing about this is going to really blow over in a week.  

 

If you have spoken to the teacher and you think that the things she plans to try this week are good things to try, and in a week you will discuss how the things went --- that is fine.

 

If nothing is going to be tried until you have this meeting (b/c the teacher needs to get feedback from the principal or something), then no, you need to go ahead and have it.

 

To be very honest -- when you get that "shall we wait a week" e-mail, you can say "no, it won't wait."  You can also say "yes, I feel heard, I feel like waiting a week is good, and I know that if things don't improve in a week, the meeting is coming."  

 

I have felt like the "I feel heard" feeling and it has been fine.

 

But you are very free to respond that you think you need to go ahead sooner.  

 

For me I think it depends a) on the classroom teacher b) on your daughter.  

 

I think your daughter is at a point where a week may be too long ------- a week is a really long time for her to be unhappy at school and forming negative associations.  

 

If you thought this was more about "she hasn't made any good friends, she is adjusting to the schedule, she is adjusting to the teachers' personalities" then I would think those are "sure, wait a week" kinds of things.  

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