debi21 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 So my son, 6, is doing pretty well at math. I am asking his charter school, who uses Saxon, to test him for acceleration - they use ability grouping for the kids so this is not a big deal. This would likely put him in Saxon 3 rather than Saxon 2. I honestly find Saxon kind of super boring and repetitive, and cannot see him bearing an entire year of stuff he mostly knows. (Last year, Saxon 1 was a cinch but they don't ability group in K). Anyway, I have been internally thinking about whether he wouldn't qualify because he is struggling with subtraction with regrouping for multiple digits. They will test him "sometime" in the next few weeks. Anyway, today I thought, is there a Saxon placement test online? - and looked it up. To qualify for Saxon 3, there are zero questions involving either adding or subtracting at all. Instead, his placement depends on being able to draw line segments in inches and centimeters, knowing money, writing fractions, reading graphs and thermometers, and telling time. To me these things are so easy to learn but we've spent little time on them (except clocks and money I guess). I am annoyed because these things all feel peripheral. I admit, I am assuming this is what they are going to use to place my son, and I could be wrong. But anyway, I am now facing a moral quandary about whether to practice ruler measurements (which is the one I mainly think he can't do) with him until they test him (which I won't be able to do anyway if they test him tomorrow). And I am hoping they actually use something better to assess placement. But really, shouldn't placement in early elementary be mainly dictated by major progression through arithmetic skills, understanding of place value, and understanding of patterns? Thanks for letting me rant. If anyone wants to weigh in on whether they think it's horrible to test prep him so he can be in Saxon 3, I'm listening. (I wouldn't use the exact problems on the assessment). And whether they think he'd be actually missing anything in the long run to skip Saxon 2. P.S. My plan for afterschooling is to go deeper rather than accelerate - I am planning to do Zaccaro's Primary Challenge Math along with logic stuff and maybe SM CWP 2 or some MEP problems - but I still don't want his hour+ a day of math in school (plus tedious Saxon homework) to be a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If there was one small thing that my student hadn't been taught that might hold them in a level of arithmetic that wasn't appropriate for them, I would absolutely teach it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If anyone wants to weigh in on whether they think it's horrible to test prep him so he can be in Saxon 3, I'm listening. (I wouldn't use the exact problems on the assessment). My kids chartered school did not use Saxon. However what they did for subject acceleration was to make my boys sit for all the end of year/course tests until they couldn't get more than 90% even though the curriculum has placement tests. The placement tests was for people buying the curriculum to use independently. The placement tests were shorter and easier than what the school gave for end of year/course tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Do you have to use Saxon? Will they allow you to use an alternative that you buy for him to use? For math adept kids, Saxon can be very tedious bordering on torture by boredom. Can they just let him do assessments to show mastery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debi21 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Kiana, thanks. That makes me feel better. I want to support him, and also have high expectations without being a complete tiger mom. The way Saxon 1 was last year, I don't think he will be out of his depth in Saxon 3. They go very slowly and spirally and I will always be there to help if he runs into an issue. Arcadia, thanks for your thoughts. I hope your experience holds true here too - it will be more valuable and thorough if they take that kind of a test to see where he should be placed. No, Calbear, unfortunately it is Saxon - they are very proud of offering Saxon and think it's great. As do most of the charters and homeschoolers around here I believe. At least the ability grouping is more than I could have found elsewhere. Saxon 1 seemed very easy and repetitive but also seemed thorough and at least seemed clear/correct in what it presented. I was told that either the parent or a teacher can request assessment if they believe the child needs to be moved into a different ability group - but I don't know how frequently they will do that. I will see how it goes and try and relax about it - I was just bristling at the thought that his math class is determined by whether he can use a ruler accurately to draw both a 10 cm line segment and a 4 inch line segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm919 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Kiana, thanks. That makes me feel better. I want to support him, and also have high expectations without being a complete tiger mom. The way Saxon 1 was last year, I don't think he will be out of his depth in Saxon 3. They go very slowly and spirally and I will always be there to help if he runs into an issue. Arcadia, thanks for your thoughts. I hope your experience holds true here too - it will be more valuable and thorough if they take that kind of a test to see where he should be placed. No, Calbear, unfortunately it is Saxon - they are very proud of offering Saxon and think it's great. As do most of the charters and homeschoolers around here I believe. At least the ability grouping is more than I could have found elsewhere. Saxon 1 seemed very easy and repetitive but also seemed thorough and at least seemed clear/correct in what it presented. I was told that either the parent or a teacher can request assessment if they believe the child needs to be moved into a different ability group - but I don't know how frequently they will do that. I will see how it goes and try and relax about it - I was just bristling at the thought that his math class is determined by whether he can use a ruler accurately to draw both a 10 cm line segment and a 4 inch line segment. I'd teach it if it's just one thing! The other thing I recall from Saxon 2 that wasn't in Saxon 1 was some stuff about writing multiplication problems and division problems with remainders. It's odd that this isn't on the placement test.... maybe because it was not in a lot of lessons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I think it would be fine to go over money and measurement with him before the placement test. However, I just wanted to mention that Saxon works best, particularly for 5/4 and up, when the work is on the easy side for the child. It should be reasonably painless to get through all those review problems each day (and there are *a lot* starting in 5/4). So you want him placed just short of being challenged. Also, there is a major format change in 5/4 that can be daunting for younger kids (and even on level ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There are two different Saxon 3 programs. Saxon 3 that is part of the Saxon k-3 program developed by Nancy Larson and Saxon Intermediate written by Stephen Hake who also wrote the other saxon intermediate books for grades 4-8. They are different! The Larson Saxon 3 has more manipulatives. Can you find out which one your school uses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debi21 Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Good question, Nart. I had no idea! The bottom of the HW pages says copyright Harcourt Achieve Inc and Nancy Larson. Is that enough to conclude it's the former? When I was in the class, though, last year for Saxon 1, I didn't see many manipulatives - some coins once, and some unifix type linking cubes another time. It seemed like the teacher just started working on the guided in class side of the page on the projector, and then they brought the flip side home for HW. And thanks for the info EKS. I'm sure you're right but I'm not sure what to think about that... because I'm working from the perspective that I want to see him be challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Here is a youtube link that explains the difference between the two versions of Saxon by Christianbook.com homeschool department https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=391cJXflKC4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 And thanks for the info EKS. I'm sure you're right but I'm not sure what to think about that... because I'm working from the perspective that I want to see him be challenged. I would want him to be challenged too! This is one reason why Saxon tends to be a poor fit for strong math students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debi21 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks everyone for your input and comments. I thought I would report back and let you know that he is starting Saxon 3 tomorrow. I may never know what they did or didn't test him on, but I'm glad. I think he will be more challenged and less bored. My afterschooling time with him can be focused on developing problem solving skills knowing he is progressing in basic skills through the school. I'm pretty happy to get this acceleration for a first grader through a free/public charter. They will test him on reading tomorrow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atara Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 This is a side question: But, what math facts need to be learned before starting Saxon 54? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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