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Jousting armadillos vs. AoPS Pre-A


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DS will be done with SM by the start of 2016.  I would like to get a pre-A book ahead of time to prepare myself.

 

I'm wondering which one of these would be better.  He's not terribly accelerated in math, he'll be 9 in November.  He is not one of these kids that can't get enough of math.  He's starting to like it well enough, but he doesn't do it for fun.

 

From what I've gathered from past threads, JA is not as in depth, and goes faster, but is maybe more entertaining.  I'm wondering if it's a full Pre-A program?  I would probably go on to Crocodiles & Coconuts and then the next for algebra.  My DS is not the kind that likes to figure out puzzles, so I am concerned about starting a program like AoPS, even though it seems to be the most popular.  I also like the idea of him doing AoPS online, so that I do not have to teach it.  Can a student go to AoPS algebra after JA, or would they need more practice?

 

 

I guess I'm just wondering if Jousting Armadillos and the books that follow are solid Algebra books, or if I should go with something else. 

 

Has anyone seen or used both that can weigh in?

Edited by someonestolemyname
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Jousting Armadillos is PreAlgebra, and then the other two books, Crocodiles & Coconuts and Chuckles the Rocket Dog, are Algebra 1.

 

JA is a complete preparation for Algebra 1, but it doesn't have everything that some PreA programs (including AoPS) contain.  It starts with the assumption that the student has mastered all the basic operations, and introduces the use of variables in operations, and then single-variable equations.  So you might need something else for review of operations - we used the old MM6 for this.  JA doesn't cover Pre-Geometry and Pre-Statistics/probability, if that's important to you to include in your "PreA program" then you'd need something else for that.  

 

JA is a program that encourages thinking about the math you are doing, and understanding why things work the way they do. It has a gentle, guided discovery approach where a kid gets to a Eureka moment at the end of the lesson, after working through all the problems, each set of which uncovers another clue as to how the whole concept works.  In that sense it is far more engaging than a program that gives some example problems in the lesson and then gives pages of practice problems.  But it's not as extreme discovery as AoPS PreA is.  With AoPS, you do some problems first and try and figure out the underlying concept, with JA you are led to discover it in a more step by step way.

 

The styles of the programs are very different.  They are both very wordy - a lot of reading required.  But JA is very conversational.  It is the author, Linus, with his quirky sense of humor, talking right to you.  You feel like you get to know him.  You giggle at his goofy jokes.  You feel like you are part of a conversation.  AoPS is not at all like that, IMO.  I find the wordiness of AoPS difficult to stay engaged with, whereas with JA you feel like someone is right there talking to you.  Consequently, my dd was able to do JA independently after the first couple of chapters, which do require discussion.  She was being taught by Linus, through the text, and didn't need me to mediate the text for her.  She wouldn't have been able to do that with AoPS, and we both enjoyed her ability to independently take ownership of her math learning.

 

There are a lot of puzzles in JA.

 

After JA, I had my dd start Jacobs Algebra. I thought it would have a similar tone and feel and would be a good fit.  She did the first 7 chapters but then asked if she could use the two Arbor School Algebra books instead, she liked them so much.  So I bought them and she's going to finish them up this year instead of finishing Jacobs.  

 

Could a student go into AoPS Algebra after JA?  Sure, they could. If AoPS is a good fit for them, if it works with their learning style, etc.  If AoPS doesn't work for them, I wouldn't assume it is JA's "fault" though.  AoPS wouldn't be a good fit for my dd regardless of what she did for PreA.  And I'm fine with that.

 

My dd does use a lot of Alcumus and we both really like the challenging problem-solving aspect of that.  But the textbook would have been totally overwhelming (I own both AoPS PreA and AoPS Algebra, and have worked on them some myself before concluding that they weren't going to work for dd).

 

There are lots of other online classes, so I wouldn't feel like you have to use AoPS just because you want your ds to do online math classes.  Only do AoPS if it is right for him, not because it's popular here or because they have online classes.  It's fabulous for some kids, and its a disaster for others. Only you and your ds can figure out if it's right for him.

 

HTH. 

 

ETA: I didn't realize we were on the Accelerated board, I just saw your thread title and I know I'm one of the few who has used JA so wanted to weigh in with our experience. The things I said about AoPS may not be relevant to you, though - my dd is a solid math student, but not wildly accelerated. She was ready for Algebra 1 in 7th, but we planned all along to take two years to do it. So she's on the normal college prep track, not the uber-accelerated math pathway that a lot of kids here are on.  You'll get a different take on AoPS from a lot of the parents on this board.  They have different math kids.  If you have one of those, you should listen to them more than me!  

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Jousting Armadillos is PreAlgebra, and then the other two books, Crocodiles & Coconuts and Chuckles the Rocket Dog, are Algebra 1.

 

JA is a complete preparation for Algebra 1, but it doesn't have everything that some PreA programs (including AoPS) contain.  It starts with the assumption that the student has mastered all the basic operations, and introduces the use of variables in operations, and then single-variable equations.  So you might need something else for review of operations - we used the old MM6 for this.  JA doesn't cover Pre-Geometry and Pre-Statistics/probability, if that's important to you to include in your "PreA program" then you'd need something else for that.  

 

JA is a program that encourages thinking about the math you are doing, and understanding why things work the way they do. It has a gentle, guided discovery approach where a kid gets to a Eureka moment at the end of the lesson, after working through all the problems, each set of which uncovers another clue as to how the whole concept works.  In that sense it is far more engaging than a program that gives some example problems in the lesson and then gives pages of practice problems.  But it's not as extreme discovery as AoPS PreA is.  With AoPS, you do some problems first and try and figure out the underlying concept, with JA you are led to discover it in a more step by step way.

 

The styles of the programs are very different.  They are both very wordy - a lot of reading required.  But JA is very conversational.  It is the author, Linus, with his quirky sense of humor, talking right to you.  You feel like you get to know him.  You giggle at his goofy jokes.  You feel like you are part of a conversation.  AoPS is not at all like that, IMO.  I find the wordiness of AoPS difficult to stay engaged with, whereas with JA you feel like someone is right there talking to you.  Consequently, my dd was able to do JA independently after the first couple of chapters, which do require discussion.  She was being taught by Linus, through the text, and didn't need me to mediate the text for her.  She wouldn't have been able to do that with AoPS, and we both enjoyed her ability to independently take ownership of her math learning.

 

There are a lot of puzzles in JA.

 

After JA, I had my dd start Jacobs Algebra. I thought it would have a similar tone and feel and would be a good fit.  She did the first 7 chapters but then asked if she could use the two Arbor School Algebra books instead, she liked them so much.  So I bought them and she's going to finish them up this year instead of finishing Jacobs.  

 

Could a student go into AoPS Algebra after JA?  Sure, they could. If AoPS is a good fit for them, if it works with their learning style, etc.  If AoPS doesn't work for them, I wouldn't assume it is JA's "fault" though.  AoPS wouldn't be a good fit for my dd regardless of what she did for PreA.  And I'm fine with that.

 

My dd does use a lot of Alcumus and we both really like the challenging problem-solving aspect of that.  But the textbook would have been totally overwhelming (I own both AoPS PreA and AoPS Algebra, and have worked on them some myself before concluding that they weren't going to work for dd).

 

There are lots of other online classes, so I wouldn't feel like you have to use AoPS just because you want your ds to do online math classes.  Only do AoPS if it is right for him, not because it's popular here or because they have online classes.  It's fabulous for some kids, and its a disaster for others. Only you and your ds can figure out if it's right for him.

 

HTH. 

 

ETA: I didn't realize we were on the Accelerated board, I just saw your thread title and I know I'm one of the few who has used JA so wanted to weigh in with our experience. The things I said about AoPS may not be relevant to you, though - my dd is a solid math student, but not wildly accelerated. She was ready for Algebra 1 in 7th, but we planned all along to take two years to do it. So she's on the normal college prep track, not the uber-accelerated math pathway that a lot of kids here are on.  You'll get a different take on AoPS from a lot of the parents on this board.  They have different math kids.  If you have one of those, you should listen to them more than me!  

 

Thank you!  I think he would really love something funny.  You are completely right that I shouldn't pick something just because there is an online class. It's just that I despise math.  Anyways, I'm trying to figure out if AoPS is even an option for him.  He's not "mathy" in the sense that a lot of other kids on this board are, but he is accelerated. 

 

I think I'm going to go with JA and the following books because for now, he needs fun.  Thank you for your detailed response!

 

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My son was like your son--ready for prealgebra at 8-9, good at math, but not in love with it.

 

We tried AoPS prealgebra and it wasn't a good fit.  If I had known about JA (I'm not even sure it was out then), I would have used it as it looks like it would have been perfect for him.

 

 

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We used JA before I started my son on Aops PreA.  I am glad we did -- it got him used to the discovery method very gently, so while it meant the material in Aops wasn't necessarily new, it at least allowed him to adjust to the level of difficulty without also having to adjust to a new way of teaching.  And we eventually went to using the Aops videos first anyway, which negated the discovery method as well.  But he definitely enjoyed the "voice" of the writer, as much as he enjoys the Aops videos now.  

 

Before he did JA, my son worked through Singapore 3A-5B.  So he was pretty solid on percents, ratios, rate problems, and he also had the ability to work through problems with different methods. (LOVE the Singapore Bar models).  He only did the IP, which also made the leap not incredibly huge.  The only difference was that Singapore was so very practical in their application of math, whereas Aops has some practical and more theoretical.  It just appeals more to my ds.  

 

 

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