Low iq, high test scores?

[blessedmom3]

My son,who is 10 and 4th grade, had a neuropsychological testing ,including iq and woodcock Johnson academic evaluation. His full scale iq is 73 (all four areas ranged between 71-91) and all areas in woodcock,including reading,writing,comprehension,math,spelling,were at or above grade level,most areas ranging between 7-12 grade , with low areas in comprehension and math fluency.

 

So my question is,how is it possible,someone with such a low iq can perform at high level academically? When he was 7, his iq was 85, with also a high academic performance.

I do work a lot with him, we use both, Singapore math & cle math at grade level,and tons of reading ,but I still don't understand this discrepancy of the results between iq - academics. He does have a very difficult time with higher order thinking / problem solving word problems in math . It's been especially difficult this year in 4th when the complexity of the problems are increasing,but once I model for him a problem once or twice,he is able to do it on his own,even two-three step problems. He is doing rod and staff 4 diagramming , and doing great with it. He reads above grade level,but has some problems with comprehension and has a mild speech & vocabulary delay.The psychologist recommended to put him in school so he would get special services and necessary help. Any advice,thoughts?

[kbutton]

I don't have advice about the IQ and performance discrepancy. It sounds like he is doing well at home, but I would think about a couple of things. Whether or not you have a diagnosis that you can tie the higher order thinking, comprehension, etc. to or not, those skills will determine a lot of his future performance as those skills become increasingly important in later grades. Does that mean you need services in order to do that? Maybe or maybe not. Would school help? Maybe or maybe not. 

 

If you know those areas are weak areas, I would worry less about the score discrepancy and create a solid plan for how you will develop those areas that are not as strong (with whatever helpful person, resource, test results, etc. will give you more information). If you have specific learning disabilities or autism or whatever on top of the IQ/performance scores, that information should inform the methods you use to work on the higher order thinking skills. I would be asking the psych if he/she thinks those skills will come along or cause more trouble later. My son, for instance, has some problems with higher order thinking skills, but those are directly tied to his spectrum diagnosis, not his IQ. We work on those things in ways that are ASD-friendly.

 

Many people on the boards use school or outside services in addition to homeschooling, but each family has to decide how well those things will work for them. There are both great and not-so-great school stories on here.

 

Hopefully some others will chime in with additional information and more BTDT help.

[blessedmom3]

Thank you for your input. What kind of help can the school offer? I heard that they can do speech therapy,but I'm going to do that privately through our insurance. Is the school able to help in other way if he is homeschooled ? At this point I'm thinking to enroll him in school,maybe he would get more help. The therapist mentioned that since English is my second language,it might be the reason of his speech delay. I have other children,and they all have no speech or other issues at all,so I'm not sure about that.

 

The psychologist did write in the report that he "might" be in the autism spectrum disorder based on the questionnaire I filled out and on her observations. Since he was little,he displayed many signs of ASD,like repetitive behaviors or obsessions with the same topic, he does not know how to interact with other kids, so he is probably in the ASD,but I'm not sure how that relates to his IQ. Most ASD kids have normal IQ or even higher than average.

 

I will call my school district to see what's available in my area,thank you for that suggestions!

[kbutton]

I totally lost my reply by accident! I will try to chime back in later--I need to run some errands. So sorry!

[mellifera33]

It sounds like you are doing an amazing job with your son. :) The available services will depend on your school district, but speech and OT are often available for homeschoolers. One of my friends who lives in the next town over had lots of good services for her homeschooled son with ASD--social skills groups and such. In my district, in a much less affluent city, they offer fewer services for homeschoolers--not because they are discriminating against homeschoolers, but because they just don't have the resources, and they aren't going to offer us more services than they offer enrolled students. A friend who lives a few streets down from me was told that they don't teach handwriting to kids with dysgraphia (except they said "kids like this"  !?!?) but wait until they are old enough to type. 

[kbutton]

My reply earlier was to recommend posting this thread with a broader title in the main Learning Challenges board to get more answers. If you do, any information you are willing to share will give people a fuller picture. I would post something about suspected ASD and testing discprencies or anything that sounds good but includes the possible ASD. You'll get more information, I think.

 

Diagnosis: there are mostly only good things to come from getting one. Sometimes insurance wants to see a specific diagnosis to cover therapies. This is especially true if you pursue behavioral stuff (from what I hear). If you have a child that "might be" spectrum, I think you should pursue additional testing to find out. ASD is a pervasive thing--it affects the other issues and how someone might approach them. For instance, with the reading comprehension issues--there are many reasons for reading comprehensive problems. Vocabulary is one contributing factor, trouble sequencing events could be another. But with spectrum, the problem is likely to be around drawing inferences and conclusions that aren't explicitly stated in the text and with understanding social nuances in a story or text. All of those issues require a different approach, but the inferencing, especially, is key for a lot of high order thinking, and the problems with this aren't necessarily tied to IQ (my son has problems with inferencing, and his IQ is in the gifted range). 

 

You may need a diagnosis to access services or get broader authorization for services...

• School-related options--this will vary a great deal. In our state, if you have an IEP, you can get scholarship money from one of two sources--a SN scholarship or an autism scholarship, and then you can use those funds for private services. You have to homeschool or enroll in private school to use that option. It's not widely known or understood.
• County services--this will vary as well, but could include respite care, social security benefits, etc. It often requires getting on a waiting list. In many cases, you have to have a combination of disabilities. Here it is at least two. So speech plus autism, speech plus intellectual disability, autism plus intellectual disability, etc.
• Depending where you live, the various agencies and schools don't really work together to let you know what is available. They don't want to know what the other agencies do, etc. This means that you have to ask questions and be a squeaky wheel.
• I suggest finding a local group that you can connect to that will help you advocate for your son and uncover more details about what is going on in addition to the advice you get here.

Your psychologist should be pointing you toward more information, additional testing (as necessary), discussing details about the reading comprehension issues, etc. The psych should be the one to be explaining the discrepancy in scores or tell you that you need additional testing. Different psychs have their specialties, and you might want to use a psych that is very experienced with kids who have a diagnosis that you think applies to your son. How the psych works with an individual child can (but doesn't always) make a difference in the IQ score you see during the testing.

[kbutton]

BTW, this is one of the ages where it's typical for issues to pop up and become more clear--kids who maybe could get by up to a point are hitting more difficult work, and then their issues surface. You are not at all alone in that regard. Many of us have had things come to the forefront in that 9-11 age range. The most important thing is to get all the accurate information you can. Knowing whether that 85 or 73 is closer to the truth is one piece. Knowing about ASD is another. Formulating a plan with partial information is difficult--you don't want to do that unless you have to. 

 

:grouphug: , and hang in there. Please come back with updates and questions as you figure this out.

[Lecka]

If he has ASD, it calls into question his test results.  

 

It is not that they are not accurate.  It is just -- that number is not going to give the same information it would give about someone not on the autism spectrum.

 

This is b/c there is likely to be a mix of skills, and that is just not what an IQ test is going to measure.  

 

So I don't think you are going to be able to have his IQ test number be a primarily useful number, as far as being able to draw conclusions from it.  

 

This is a personal opinion that I have:  if your son was in public school, there is a good chance that some teacher might be noticing and bringing up ASD-related concerns.  He might have these observations that would go with him to an eval.  But that is not how we think as parents.  So, you would not be filling out forms saying "yes, there has been a concern from his teacher."  But for ASD, sometimes if you do not go in with those concerns and observations, and provide that information, then the tester does not have that information.  

 

So I think that is something to keep in mind, as to why you may not have had it brought up.  If you never brought up any kind of concern, it would not be shown as something to evaluate for.  

 

But, it is really possible that you don't notice, or also that he is happy and well-adjusted at home, but wouldn't be at school.  

 

But those are not bad things at all ----- they are just things that are not going to result in you taking in "concerns that would point to ASD" when you are at the eval.

[kbutton]

So I think that is something to keep in mind, as to why you may not have had it brought up.  If you never brought up any kind of concern, it would not be shown as something to evaluate for.  

 

But, it is really possible that you don't notice, or also that he is happy and well-adjusted at home, but wouldn't be at school.  

 

But those are not bad things at all ----- they are just things that are not going to result in you taking in "concerns that would point to ASD" when you are at the eval.

 

I think you mentioned in your other thread that the psych said he didn't have autism because he looked people in the eye, and he didn't have certain symptoms. 

 

I strongly encourage people to think outside the box about symptoms, because sometimes it's about interpretation--is someone crossing their arms because they are mad, or is it because they are cold, or do they have cramps? Also, if you don't realize something could be a symptom, you might not bring it up in the same way (as a primary concern) because you don't realize it's significant. Some of my son's symptoms just look a little different on him than someone else. His stims are almost all noises, but if he's tired enough, or you see him in a completely new situation, he starts doing mild physical stims. He makes decent eye contact (really good with people he knows). I think that looking at symptoms in a cut and dry way is misleading. Once we had a diagnosis and got to know other people whose kids were on the spectrum, we could readily see signs that we'd missed before because he puts his own spin on them. 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html  Note that it says the examples are not exhaustive and to see the actual text. You might be able to find the DSM V at the library.