Primitive Reflexes

[Minerva]

I am trying to learn more about primitive reflexes. 

 

When watching Youtube videos I haven't seen any movements that seem like things we aren't getting in our every day play. What makes the therapies different than the hours and hours my kids spend every day when they are swimming, dancing, climbing, running, stretching? 

 

I am trying to learn more about various therapies so I know where to plunk down money when we arrive in the states later this year. If you have had good results with Primitive Reflex therapies can you tell me a little bit about it? Did you notice results? How long did it take? Is there anyone who it didn't work for? Is it generally an OT that does these therapies? 

 

Thank you.

 

 

[PeterPan]

I agree that there seems to be this recirculating list of common exercises that may or may not be effective.  There are Brain Balance centers that will treat retained primitive reflexes, and the wind I've heard backchannel is that those commonly seen exercises on the web are what they're doing.  

 

Then there's RMT (rhythmic movement therapy) which has its own proprietary list.  You can find the exercise posters online with google image, but that doesn't give you thorough instructions.  They aren't hard, but they seem to be the exercises OTs tend to do.  Requires extra training, so it isn't something necessarily all OTs or PTs can do, just those who have done the training.  

 

Then there's Stopping ADHD, which has a specific list of exercises, just for STNR, that they want you to do for 8 months (yes, jaw drop, you read that right).  They claim people don't get radical, miraculous changes because they stop the exercises for the STNR too soon.  Considering the length of time I've heard people doing RMT was in terms of weeks and the Stopping  people claim you need 8 months, that could be an issue.  I really don't know, so my approach is cover your butt.  I have him doing the RMT stuff *and* the exercises from Stopping.

 

The trick is wrapping your brain around what each reflex looks like so you know whether the exercise is actually working on it.  It's not like some kind of weird voodoo, after you think about it.  Some of these exercises you find online are not going to be very effective at integrating the reflex because they aren't actually very effective at working the issue.  So I guess that's why RMT gets so proprietary about their methodology, sigh.  Some of them still confuse me, but it's just a lot of details.  (head dropping vs. head turning, which things are connecting what, blah blah)  But once the OT slowed down and explained the reflex, went through the 5-6 RMT exercises, then I could see ok that's the common denominator, that we're working that relationship (touching the spine, connection of head and waist, whatever) over and over, lots of different ways.  That's why I look at some of those exercises online and go wow, not sure how effective that's going to be at getting you there since it isn't actually working that thing very effectively.  But then I can't say for sure as I'm just a bit into the process myself, sigh.  

[Heathermomster]

Reintegration exercises are for individuals with retained reflexes.  Your child may not require the exercises.  Retained reflexes will effect developmental vision, the ability to sit still, involuntary wetting, directionality, pencil grasp, and a host of other issues.  

 

Here is a link that explains how to test your children at home.

[texasmama]

One of my kids had retained primitive reflexes and received OT for about 8 years.  It took until he was about 10 for this to be corrected.  The OT helped him in many other ways, and it was through the public school so it was at no cost to us.

[Heathermomster]

TexasMama, I think of you a lot when I think about reintegration exercises.  Has anyone ever explained to you why kiddos on the spectrum have the retained reflexes and why it takes so long to reintegrate them?  

[texasmama]

TexasMama, I think of you a lot when I think about reintegration exercises.  Has anyone ever explained to you why kiddos on the spectrum have the retained reflexes and why it takes so long to reintegrate them?  

No one ever did.  My son had a very obvious and disabling level of sensory integration issues when he was a toddler.  He started OT at three and quit when he was 11.  He had an amazing therapist who worked with him tirelessly and thoroughly.  I am still so grateful for her.

[Minerva]

Reintegration exercises are for individuals with retained reflexes.  Your child may not require the exercises.  Retained reflexes will effect developmental vision, the ability to sit still, involuntary wetting, directionality, pencil grasp, and a host of other issues.  

 

Here is a link that explains how to test your children at home.

 

Thanks for the link. I will try them with my kids this week. 

[NYmomof4]

I used this book to assess and do the exercises to reintegrate reflexes. In addition to the book, there was also web access to watch the videos. The book was very clear and well illustrated.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Assessing-Neuromotor-Readiness-Learning-Developmental/dp/1119970687/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1438608377&sr=1-5&keywords=Sally+Goddard+Blythe

[geodob]

Minerva, 

Given that your kids spend every day swimming, dancing, climbing, running and stretching.

Their doesn't seem to be any indication of retained primitive reflexes?

 

Though primitive reflexes need to be understood for what they actually are?

What role they play in the developmental process?

While a baby is born without motor muscle control, they don't lie there motionless.

Rather they are born with a whole set of automatic reflex muscle group responses.

That don't involve the brain, but originate from what are called 'ganglions', in the top 7 vertebrae in our spinal column.

Which trigger a whole range of 'survival motor movements'.

That cause an automatic contraction of specific muscle groups.

For example, touching a babies cheek, will trigger a reflex that contracts muscles which turn a babies head in that direction.

Also remains contracted, as a baby is unable to relax the muscles.

Where this reflex, supports breast feeding.

So that a baby is born with a whole range of survival reflexes.

 

Though these reflexes also provide the foundation for developing motor muscle control.

Rather than a baby noticing that it has an arm, and trying to move it?

It becomes aware of its arms, through their reflex movements?

The critical point here, is that they then start to practice 'inhibiting this reflex movement'.

Which involves a connection being developed, between the brains motor cortex and the upper spinal column.

The difference here, is that a reflex is an on/off process of muscle contraction.

While the motor cortex, is more like a volume control?

That can gradually contract and relax/extend muscles.

 

But to transition from reflex upper spinal control, to motor cortex volume control of muscles?

The motor cortex needs to develop the ability to over-ride and inhibit these on/off reflexes from the spinal column.

So that it can then develop a refined volume control of the muscles.

Though what is termed as a 'retained reflex'?

Is where the motor cortex hasn't developed the ability to 'inhibit a reflex' of a muscle group, and introduce refined motor control.

So the muscle group still operates in an on/off reflex process.

 

Though another crucial factor, is that all muscles operate in teams.

With all muscles having their opposing muscle. So that as a muscle contracts, its opposing muscle needs to extend in unison.

But perhaps you can imagine the confusion that is created, when a reflex hasn't been inhibited and continually disrupts the process?

[PeterPan]

My ds has gone through almost all the levels of swimming at the Y now (Minnow, so all that is left are fish/flying fish/shark), and he had at least 3 serious retained primitive reflexes.

 

Interestingly, a retained STNR will give you a better kick for swimming, so someone who gets noticed as having an unusually good kick for swimming (like my ds did by the head of the program) actually should be checked.  Makes his kick crazy good and makes turning his head for a clean freestyle bad.  But butterfly, he kicks butt at butterfly.  

 

So don't assume anything.  The book Stopping ADHD has a whole list of how the retained STNR will show up in different sports and activities.

[geodob]

OhEliz,

The STNR isn't actually a 'primitive reflex'.

It is in fact, a part of the brain stem function.

Which coordinates movement between the body and the head.

Where this coordination between our body, and the head that sits on top of it?

Occurs in the brain stem, that coordinates the relationship between the head and our body.

An essential part of this, is the vestibulo-spinal reflex, that basically senses the orientation of the head and the body.

Recognising the orientation of both, with the head leaning one way and the body leaning a different way?

It can then coordinate them.

But it is limited to coordination between the head and body.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Well interesting!  I didn't know there were nuances with some being "primitive" reflexes and some being "transitional brainstem" or bridging reflexes.  Either way, it's retained.  The Stopping ADHD book suggests that kids with a retained STNR will have either a strong kick *or* a strong something else (I forget), and my ds has that unusually strong kick.  It also suggests that kids will end up really good at other strokes (butterfly, breast stroke) and struggle with freestyle (which requires the most head-turning and rotary breathing), which is also the case with my ds.  

 

My point was merely that looking at a list of things they participate in is not a foolproof way to sort out whether you have retained reflexes of any kind.  My ds has 3 and he, at this point, is a surprisingly good swimmer.  Struggles with freestyle (because of the head turning and the STNR), but killer, killer at butterfly.  He's also a relatively good gymnast, something you also don't expect for his list of issues.  All of his progress reflects ridiculous and unusual amounts of time spent on my part working on motor planning, putting him in more swim lessons than ANYONE else at the Y ever takes (like 3-4 days a week for a full year), etc.  I just figured someone with as many issues as he has ought to have the chance to do something WELL.  And if I looked at what is working, I would miss my chance to intervene on the things that aren't.  Just because I can get progress in one area doesn't mean EVERYTHING is ok or that we aren't creating splinter skills or leaving other things behind.

[BooksandBoys]

Agreeing that active children can still have retained reflexes. My eldest has multiple retained reflexes, but he runs, jumps, rolls, climbs, rides his bike, conquers the monkey bars, and skis. He does all of these things well and often, but only after significant effort and practice (much more effort than his younger brother ever needs to put forth), and he still looks quirky doing them.