received child study results and public school is recommended help!

[Rosiered]

OK my son has had trouble with working memory and processing speed.  He has some gifts and some deficits.  We got teh child study back last night I have cried my eyes out thinking that I will have to stop homeschooling him.  

 

Here are his results in brief:

verbal comprehension 95%

visual spatial 98%

fluid reasoning 88%

working memory 16%

processing speed 6%

 that was IQ which overall is 116 

 

for math and reading test

his RPI (relative Performance Index) was

very limited in these areas:

math calculation 6/90 (he is so used to the 1-100 chart and the multiplication fact poster in our homeschool, I left it up in hopes that it would imprint eventually in his long term memory. He will be 10 in under 1 month now.  the testing area does not have those posters so he told me that he could not do any of the multiplication without the poster and the report stated that at times he got the wrong answer on addition and subtraction problems by using the wrong operation through inattention),

spelling he scored 15/90 (although at home on spelling words he has spelled all week he does fairly well by thursday but down the road he will forget how to spell them - long term memory problem again),

writing samples 8/90 (he has dysgraphia and finds writing hard and tedious),

sentence writing fluency 4/90 (we studied this this year but the 1.5-2 hour test had no deemed breaks but he balked to get 2 bathroom breaks, he should really have a break every 15-20 minutes but that is the way they are set up), 

 

 

he scored limited in the following:

sentence reading fluency 33/90

number matrices 27/90

 

he scored limited to average in the following:

reading recall 80/90

math applied problems 70/90

 

he scored average to advanced in the following:

picture vocabulary 95/90

 

and advanced in the following:

picture vocabulary 98/90  (he has a very high vocabulary and I read to him copious books and he seems to do very well with this)

 

this was all from the woodcook-johnson iv tests for oral language and achievement 

 

I need encouragement to homeschool.  Last year (3rd grade) was very very difficult but going forward I wanted to enroll with MODG for special needs. I have never enrolled before.  My husband was at the child study meeting and he is now totally on board with putting him in public school.  The ed. counselor was very doom and gloom - he needs special services now so that he can go to college later. He needs to be able to write a paper and puts his thoughts down on paper.  I will contact an occupational therapist about services.  He has already had his convergency deficiency reversed but he does have some letter reversal and dysgraphia (it went from maybe 12% to 30% on a bell curve) with therapy.  The therapist/doctor team told me that they took him as far as they could and strongly recommended a child study. And here we are.  He has a very poor self-image because he cannot do school well.  He is frustrated with his own working memory when he plays he tells me.  He hates school but does not want to be homeschooled.  We had him in basketball camp and vacation bible school this summer and try outs for the swim team and he had a bad time.  Despite his gregariousness he doesn't pick up on social queues like went to stop telling jokes (although he is working on this now, he asked other kids for advice on this) and just other queues.  Because dysgraphia effects his sports ability (eye hand coordination and other 9-10 yr olds have caught up to their peers) he is not picked for team sports and so hates playing outside.  He wants to continue to be homeschooled. He does not want to go to public school and be bullied he says.  Help help hellp help help please thank you!

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I am so sorry this has been so stressful.

 

Was the evaluator very biased against homeschooling to begin with?  Because it certainly sounds like it.  That really doesn't help you much if they recommend ps because of ignorance based bias as opposed to actual knowledge of the local ps system and the options with homeschooling.  You aren't getting an accurate recommendation.  

 

I realize it is a bit late now, but I would have wanted to see if they have a bias against homeschooling before going.  You want someone who knows the services and quality of help available in the local ps as well as an open mind and preferrably some experience with the successes and strengths that homeschooling can provide.  In other words, you need someone that is open to both options and looks honestly at what is in the best interest of the child.  

 

I hate to sound ignorant but what exactly is a "child study" as opposed to an evaluation?  And who does it?

 

FWIW, some schools can provide excellent services and the child may do well.  Unfortunately, that does not appear to be the norm.  It certainly isn't in my area.  In fact, it is the polar opposite.  (One reason we are now homeschooling).

 

As for coordination issues, have you looked into something like martial arts and swimming?  Both helped DS quite a bit but we had to get him private lessons for quite a while alongside group work so he could have help really nailing down the movements.  It really, really helped.

 

Have you tried an OG based program for spelling?

 

I would work hard on the self-image issue.  Being in PS when you are behind and struggling may just spiral that issue down even further.  If you were going to continue homeschooling, I would try hard to find areas of interest and work with focused attention to give him more knowledge/skill sets in those areas.  Work on core academics still of course but make his strengths the focus while you work on the weaknesses.  Show him he does have abilities, just maybe not in the standard academic arena.

 

What curriculum have you used?

[TranquilMind]

Removed post

[Heathermomster]

I don't have time to address this at the moment, but I want to tell you that you CAN continue to homeschool this child and he will be in a better place for it.  Your child is 2e.  I don't understand the SLDs.  What was he diagnosed with?  I see the dysgraphia.  Was he diagnosed with maths disability and dyslexia too?

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry these things are so confusing. It's hard to know what to do, because we want our children to succeed, and we don't want to make the wrong choices. Here is the bottom line -- you do not have to enroll in school just because the evaluator told you to.

 

Homeschooling can be a good option for children with learning challenges if the homeschooling parent is willing to investigate and use materials that are appropriate for that child's particular needs. In fact, homeschoolers may have more options than a public school, where the student has to try to meet the same benchmarks and standards as children who do not share the same learning issues.

 

On the other hand, school can sometimes be a good option if the homeschooling parent does not feel equipped to work with the student, or if the school has particular services that would be a good thing for the child.

 

Are you in the US? If so, the public school is required to evaluate children in their community with learning disabilities. Going through the school's evaluation process may help you decide if they have programs that would benefit your son.

 

Did he get a diagnosis of dyslexia?

[laundrycrisis]

Don't panic.  IMO schools are not likely to help much with issues that are challenging due to working memory and processing speed issues.  We have a son with those.  I had him tested by a private psychologist after 3rd grade and it was alarming.   I was given some specific advice about how to work with him the way he learns best, and how to help with particular mental skills regarding stepping through thought processes and organizing his thoughts.  

 

He went through vision therapy for both visual motor and visual processing issues, OT, and had a reading tutor for a time, all privately.  Now three years later, I think he's doing very well.  He reads a lot and is reading teen novels.  With Calvert, he learned how to read a chapter of a youth novel, and then summarize it immediately on paper, and this really helped his comprehension.  I used writing assignments that worked for him, regardless of the "grade level" it was for - for example, I used Writing With Ease 1 in the 4th grade, but did a week in each sitting instead of spreading it over a full week.  I did WWE2 in 5th grade, and skipped to Writing With Skill toward the end of 6th grade.  I also learned to scaffold writing for him by using organizers for paragraphs, and had him do a lot of paragraphs with that scaffold.  He learned to type very well, and taking handwriting out of the workload has helped his writing a lot.  He also took a casual speech class at a co-op, and that has helped his writing.  While he's not doing "grade level" writing yet - no 5 paragraph essays or reports - he has become quite skilled at reading something, making an outline, and then paraphrasing into a nice paragraph from his outline.  That is something taught in Writing With Skill.  On more casual and creative assignments, like King Arthur's Academy, he is having fun and finding his voice.  I think it's all going to work out in the writing dept.  

 

In math, when he was tested, he was behind because he had just started to multiply and had not divided yet.  At the end of 5th grade, he took the ALEKS placement and was three full years behind - we both cried.  He decided to work hard and caught up all three grade levels over that summer, and started 6th grade caught up in math.  He's going into 7th this year and is already more than halfway through the 7th grade math.  I think getting through the arithmetic stage was just a hard hill to get over, and he's been fine since beating that.  We used Mastering Mathematics, ALEKS and Calvert Math.  

 

My biggest concerns with him now are focus, remembering, being able to take notes in a class, and executive functioning in general, so those are things we work on.  I also want to get him writing longer assignments, but I believe it will come.  I have looked at standard school writing programs and compared them to WWE and WWS.  I think WWE and WWS is very good practice for core skills, and so it's very helpful for kids who have weaknesses in these core skills...but I have not been able to use it at the recommended age level for either child.  

 

Our other son is entering 4th and at much the same place as his brother was at this age.  This time I'm not panicking.  He is reading books above his age level, and has become a fast typist through playing Roblox and Minecraft online.  I believe he will get through all these math facts and operations at a slower pace, and then catch up several grade levels of math very quickly.  I think his ability to write more than one sentence at a time will improve with the Calvert assignments in 4th and 5th grade (he is starting Calvert also this year).  He is in a social skills group using the Social Thinking program.  He feels awkward about team sports and doesn't play them anymore, but is doing fine in a homeschool tennis program and an evening archery program.  

 

My experience has been that keeping them home gives us room and time.  We can focus on what needs the most work, because we aren't compelled to spend time on fifty other things required for that grade level that week according to some official document.  IMO these evaluations don't take into account that people don't necessarily learn at a constant rate, and kids don't mature at a constant rate.  There are stalls and surges.  Homeschooling is flexible and can make room and time for these.  

 

 

[GoVanGogh]

Sounds like he is a little kid.  I wouldn't worry about asynchronous results like this until he is older, but that's me. 

 

 

I have a (now) super-academic kid that just took a little longer to kick in in all areas.  No way could he have written a paper at 8.  I seriously got sentences like, "I like candy.  Candy is good."    I just kept him writing about stuff he cared about, which apparently was candy, at the time. 

 

Does he remember ANYTHING...like stuff that he really cares about?  Games, chess matches, sports stats, anything in particular that he seems to be filing away all kinds of information about?  Curious. 

 

Now in high school, this one was just admitted to a very selective program in a gifted high school (I tell you that not to brag, but to say that this one dealt with fine motor delays, inability to write, didn't read until 7.5 etc -flipped letters, etc and we home schooled).   Things kicked in as this one was ready. 

 

This is a major pet peeve of mine ---  but I really hate this sort of reply.

We were told that for years about our little boy. Don't worry. He will learn it when he needs it. He is a late bloomer. It will kick in when he is ready.

We heard this from our pediatricians. (Saw two in DS's first ten years as first one retired.)

We heard this from friends, homeschool community, family.

When our son was 10 years of age, I finally told our pediatrician that enough was enough, I was demanding referrals for evaluations.

We ended up getting a late diagnosis of mild cerebral palsy.

Many of the related medical issues had been diagnosed and treated over the years, with doctors ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room.

DS was just smart enough to keep the doctors from worrying about his delays, his 'wiggles,' his inability to hold a pencil and write.

I know we have an extreme case here and chances are that the OP has nothing at all like this going on.

But it kills me to hear the 'wait and they will outgrow it' attitude, especially on a SN board. We lost precious years of treatment and therapy because of this attitude.

If I could go back and change our course, I would in a heart beat. I would never wish another family to ever be in this position. Sadly, though, I have since met other families that got difficult diagnosis late in the game. It is hard enough to cope with a learning difference/disability. Moms don't need the added guilt and regret over not getting a diagnosis or resolution sooner.

Stepping off my soap box now.

[wapiti]

I'm just skimming through here, but I agree with Heather that your ds is quite obviously 2e.  I would question whether a FSIQ can even be calculated here - that's what the GAI is for, though there are specific rules for that.

 

Of course you can homeschool.  Indeed, I'd like to hear just what this tester thinks the public school can do about working memory and processing speed.  I'm sorry to laugh (at the tester), but you're in a much better position to deal with those at home.

 

You have come to the right place for helpful tips and advice!

[Rosiered]

THank you all.  What is OG?  He remembers a lot of things. He remembers tons and tons of facts about videogames and chima characters and stuff like that.  He has had a brain MRI because he would get ringing in the ears off and on and he is fine thank God!  He has a thickening of the membrane there though because of allergies.  netty pot is supposedly good for that. We have tried it off and on and have had him ingest apple cider vinegar mixed in water and other healthy things that are supposed to counter act allergy symptoms.

 

Prior to going with the ed. counselor we went with I did ask if she is homeschool friendly and she insisted that she was and that homeschoolers do go to her.  But well whatever.  There is a homeschool friendly ed. counselor in an adjacent state that is like 1/2 the price and 1/2 the time. .The original referral doctor felt that my son was so complicated that he deserves the indepth testing and so  went for that.  Now I want this homeschool friendly ed counselor to look at the results. I'm going to copy and mail them to her.

 

Also since I last posted I contacted Cogmed branch near me and they tout a 80% increase in working memory by 1/3 of the time (which would bring my son up to average - yay!)  She feels after talking to me over the phone and discussing his report that he would be a good candidate. If anyone else is interested it is $1300.00 well each branch sets their own pricing.  I am excited for my son.  

 

I love the suggestions you all made.  It seems like a lot to do.  Right now summer is to be enjoyed but he would love to do minecraft!  I will try robsomething too. he'll love that.  He also does multiplication.com and seems to be getting better with math facts.  I think so at least.

 

 

[ktgrok]

My son, the one with Aspergers and ADHD has similar scores, almost exactly. The thing that helped the most with working memory was Writing With Ease, and doing Story of the World with the narration questions. It helped TREMENDOUSLY. Nothing in public school will have that kind of systematic way of working thorugh stuff, getting it into his memory. Now, with WWE you need to go at whatever speed he can handle...talking about dictation here....My son needed me to break the sentences down into smaller chunks at first, etc, but he made improvements. 

 

Also, his neuropsych thinks ADHD meds might help him focus btter, and therefore remember better, but my son refuses to try them. 

 

Finally there is another way to calculate IQ that leaves off those processing/memory scores, that is more valid when you have such discrepancies. I'm sure someone here can help you with that, maybe it's the GAD? Something like that. 

 

Your kid is twice exceptional, he is gifted and has a learning disability. I doubt your public school can handle that. 

[Rosiered]

I'm just skimming through here, but I agree with Heather that your ds is quite obviously 2e.  I would question whether a FSIQ can even be calculated here - that's what the GAI is for, though there are specific rules for that.

 

Of course you can homeschool.  Indeed, I'd like to hear just what this tester thinks the public school can do about working memory and processing speed.  I'm sorry to laugh (at the tester), but you're in a much better position to deal with those at home.

Thank you!  What is 2e?  What is FSIQ?  What is GAI?  To answer a qs back, the child study is an evaluation.  It is just called a child study.  She is a phd,, not an md. She cannot diagnose for ADD/ADHD.  She stated that he has very low working memory and get this - it cannot be changed, what you have is what you have. A friend stated that the public school will state the same thing.  But Cogmed has great results 80% of the time by increasing 1/3 per patient.  I hope and pray that that will help my son.  Cogmed stated also that the hope is once working memory increases then processing speed will also because once you can recall a math fact or a phonogram, etc. you then build confidence and then eventually build speed.  that is the hope at least.  Also she said that diet does not seem to work with this but the fidgeting of kids like this seems to be used by these kids as perhaps a less than perfect memory aid.  Interesting.  A friend stated to use a metronome (or one on-line) as a memory/organizational aid for concepts, to have it in the background. I might have missed a few things about that but right now I'm grabbing at straws and my day  has been an endless stream of phone calls and e-mails. Thank you!

[Rosiered]

Thank you, so muchto show my hubby when he is home.  Thank you so much!  What would I do without you all and my friend who referred me to you!

[TranquilMind]

This is a major pet peeve of mine ---  but I really hate this sort of reply.

We were told that for years about our little boy. Don't worry. He will learn it when he needs it. He is a late bloomer. It will kick in when he is ready.

We heard this from our pediatricians. (Saw two in DS's first ten years as first one retired.)

We heard this from friends, homeschool community, family.

When our son was 10 years of age, I finally told our pediatrician that enough was enough, I was demanding referrals for evaluations.

We ended up getting a late diagnosis of mild cerebral palsy.

Many of the related medical issues had been diagnosed and treated over the years, with doctors ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room.

DS was just smart enough to keep the doctors from worrying about his delays, his 'wiggles,' his inability to hold a pencil and write.

I know we have an extreme case here and chances are that the OP has nothing at all like this going on.

But it kills me to hear the 'wait and they will outgrow it' attitude, especially on a SN board. We lost precious years of treatment and therapy because of this attitude.

If I could go back and change our course, I would in a heart beat. I would never wish another family to ever be in this position. Sadly, though, I have since met other families that got difficult diagnosis late in the game. It is hard enough to cope with a learning difference/disability. Moms don't need the added guilt and regret over not getting a diagnosis or resolution sooner.

Stepping off my soap box now.

Ok, sorry.  I will delete it. 

 

I see your case as different because you already knew and informed the pediatrician how things were, instead of them telling you how things are, as is happening here.  Moms know what to do in their guts, I think. 

 

Sorry I offended you.

[wapiti]

Thank you!  What is 2e?  What is FSIQ?  What is GAI?

 

2e = twice-exceptional = gifted with a learning disability/issue

 

FSIQ = full scale IQ

 

GAI = general ability index; I'm not sure how the Woodcock Johnson handles this

 

Cogmed stated also that the hope is once working memory increases then processing speed will also because once you can recall a math fact or a phonogram, etc. you then build confidence and then eventually build speed. 

 

I don't know much about Cogmed but for what it's worth, improving working memory also improving processing speed doesn't make sense from my perspective of having a child with low processing speed but high working memory.  They are separate issues.  (I don't remember how the Woodcock Johnson measures processing speed and how that might differ from, say, the processing speed subtests on the WISC)

 

As for diet, I'm not familiar with diet improving performance for working memory and processing speed but on the medical end, there are a lot of unknowns when it comes to outside effects of diet, etc. on the central nervous system.  It is the wild west.  It would not surprise me if there were some people who were able to see improvements with diet changes though I'm guessing most situations are more complicated than that.

[ktgrok]

Yes, the IQ they gave you is the full IQ, but if you have some tests that are way out of line, like you do, it isn't accurate. Instead they do the GAI (not GAD like I said before, I was close though!) that discounts those and gives you a more accurate picture. My son's Full Scale IQ is 128, but GAI was 142. Big difference. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and another tip for kids with working memory issues....get those facts into long term memory, which is often just fine. That way they don't have to use up working memory dealing with them. The more stuff they get memorized the easier their life will be. Working memory is the way station before long term memory. Use curriculum with LOTS of review, so it can get into that long term memory storage. Maybe read the book "Why Don't Student's Like School". It's written by a cognitive scientist and discusses how things make it into our memory, working memory vs long term memory, etc. Really really good reading. http://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196X

 

Public school is not the answer...they do things in a very different way, no more kill and drill, etc which means kids have to use much more working memory vs long term memory, not a good thing for your kid. 

[kbutton]

You've gotten good advice. Was his convergence trouble minor, moderate, or severe? It can affect coordination and make learning issues that exist worse (sometimes a lot worse). If they've done all they can, and you aren't seeing improvement with coordination, esp. eye/hand coordination, then I would also get an occupational therapy evaluation. He's too old for a SIPT exam (deals with sensory issues), but an OT who is SIPT-certified is often going to be very thorough. My kids have both had occupational therapy, and one had vision therapy. The one who had vision therapy had ENORMOUS gains in coordination after vision therapy for convergence issues, and then OT helped with more of his coordination. My other one has different issues but also received OT. Vision and coordination issues can make each other worse and/or be caused by the same underlying problems. Or they can be separate. A good OT can at least give you some idea of what might help.

 

If his vision issues were pretty severe, that combined with the poor WM and processing speed can really make academics difficult, and he could simply need time and targeted strategies to catch up now that his vision is remediated. I am amazed at how many leaps my kids have made with OT and vision work. Your son may need a different combination, but you definitely have some options and more things to try/research before being out of options. That's a good thing!

 

 

[Heathermomster]

The Feingold Diet has been known to help some families control ADHD symptoms.

 

Processing speed scores are very sensitive to motor planning.  DD's OT told me that 50% of children with ADHD will also have some sort of motor planning issue.  As your child has been diagnosed with dysgraphia, your child may benefit from a full OT evaluation.  You need an OT that will evaluate developmental motor (prim reflexes), vestibular (balance), pincer/core strength, and handedness.   The OT can also assess whether your child merits a further sensory evaluation.   My DS completed Interactive Metronome (IM) therapy with the OT. 

 

You can try evaluating the prim reflexes yourself .  The directions are here.  My DS had a retained spinal galant, ATNR, and STNR, and they all required reintegration exercises.  DS has worked with both and OT and pediatric PT.  The booklet S'cool Moves may also benefit your child.  

 

Dysgraphia affects not only legibility and writing speed but the ability to organize thoughts and create coherent sentences and paragraphs.  You will need to scaffold for your child.  You will need to scribe for your child and do it freely and without guilt or concern.  Dr. Charles Haynes produced a webinar that breaks down the writing process very well, and I encourage you to view it.  Accommodate....Scaffold.....and accommodate some more.  Be prepared to teach your child to type and/or use speech to text software such as Dragon Speak.

 

Since your child's verbal comp and visual perception scores are high, exploit that strength.  We use audio books, manipulatives, and hands-on learning.  DS learned his multiplication tables by using methods prescribed by Ronit Bird.  Which Ronit Bird book to recommend is dependent upon whether your child knows the add/subtraction facts to 20 well.  I can't think of anything else at the moment.

 

We have never used Cogmed, so I can't speak to its efficacy.  With the low WM scores, Cogmed seems like it might be worth the investment.  Good luck!  

[Tiramisu]

Okay, you mentioned dysgraphyia...

 

I may be jumping over my head because it's been awhile since I remember the skills involved in the different subtests of the IQ test that measure processing speed and working memory. However, if my memory serves me right, if there is dysgraphia (in other words, a motor skills weakness), it can (artificially) lower certain scores. I'm rather certain dysgraphia will lower the processing speed result on the test, though not as certain about the working memory testing part. So, the thing is, if he has dysgraphia is an issue, you CANNOT trust that processing speed score. Perhaps someone else here will know about working memory.

 

So my dd also had lower working memory and processing speed. It came up on the first set of basic educational testing. Then, years later, we saw a neuropsych who did more specialized testing. That neuropsych didn't even do the regular processing tests, which was weird, but she really felt they wouldn't capture my dd's true processing speed. She did a bunch of tests and determined that it wasn't her processing speed that was the problem but a motor skills glitch that was the issue. So she wound up being able to do things rather fast if she could do them in her head and not rely on motor skills. The truth of that was made clear to me when I sat with her to do SAT prep, and she was light years ahead of me when she could do things in her head, but much slower than me when she had to write things down. The neuropsych said couldn't give her a reliable full-scale IQ or GAI because neither would have any meaning.

 

Dysgraphia likely threw off the math scores, too. Seriously, take that math score with a grain of salt.

 

I'm just throwing that out there. It's not as bad as it's looking right now. You can take your report to another specialist who can help you sort things out, evaluate what you had done, and do some additional tests that might paint a clearer, more positive view of what he's dealing with.

 

I second the recommendation to work on typing. That made a huge difference with one of my kids. It took the stress off of all the written work she did. Also, you should scribe for him for math. He talks, you write. Or have him use a big white board and take turns writing. You'll see a big difference.

[Crimson Wife]

OhElizabeth has done a lot of research on Cogmed and her older child is either doing it now or will be starting it shortly.

 

I have an appointment next week to talk to a local neuropsych who offers the preschool version (not all places do). The reseach on effectiveness in younger children is mixed but the neuropsych for the deaf & hard-of-hearing sent me a link to a study that looked at Cogmed in deaf kids. The study found improvement not only in the kind of working memory tasks specifically trained in Cogmed but also generalization to the child's ability to repeat sentences heard. The WM deficit I think is really hurting both my DD's receptive understanding of speech and her ability to move from simple to more complex sentences in her expressive speech.

 

There is another program called "Jungle Memory", which is a lot cheaper so that might be something to try if Cogmed is not in your budget.

[PeterPan]

I'm jumping in late; y'all have been having fun without me!  My FIL passed this morning at 4 am, so it has been a long day.  I have never been with someone when they took flight, and it was a profound thing.  Then when I tried to rest I was having bad dreams and trouble settling down.  Long day.

 

Anyways, for the op, if I could suggest, you might want to just SLOW DOWN and stop this whole rush, rush desperation thing you're on.  You have a whole bunch of emotions you're dealing with right now, and they're apt to make you do some impulsive things.  SLOW DOWN.  Get the report in hand.

 

That's absurd that the person couldn't given ADHD label.  Psychs around here do it all the time.  Was her phd in something other than psychology???  

 

Thing two, what were the SLD (learning disability) diagnoses?  I assume at least SLD writing and SLD math, maybe also SLD reading?  My ds has all three.  I *assumed* our psych was an ok guy because of his good reputation and because homeschoolers use him.  Got in there and as soon as he said dyslexia, it was all "homeschoolers should not teach their xyz dc."   :glare:   And that really threw me for a loop.  Thing is, I've now gone to the ps and gotten an IEP for my 3 SLD, ADHD, ASD, verbal apraxia, keep going with the list dc.  They are NOT capable of teaching him or providing him adequate services.  I can say that confidently, because I went there and did what you would need to do.  Furthermore, your ds is going to spend MONTHS with no, no, no interventions while they observe and see if evals are even necessary for an IEP!!  And sure, you can walk in with your report and make a written request.  120 days later (that's 4 months from the day you do that), you'll have an IEP.  So don't be uninformed about this.  Do the math.  Your ps may intervene earlier (some do), or they may let him rott and say those idiot homeschoolers, blah blah.  And then, when you've gone through the IEP process (which you'll finish by December at this rate), THEN the question is whether your dc is going to provide adequate services.  So don't be naive on that. You could literally have a lost year waiting for the school system to work.

 

The point is that if you AREN'T going to intervene in some way, then let the ps try.  But if you ARE going to use the info of the evals to change what you're doing, then this is the time to do it.  You have serious challenges and need to start looking at your options honestly.  You need the full written report so you can see the conclusions.  You need to look at a variety of scenarios: ps (with an IEP, which he would assuredly need), homeschooling but with private tutors, private school with intervention services, partial enrollment of some kind.  

 

Don't let your grief, shock, and the fear the idiot psych foisted on you rush you into mistakes.  All you do when you rush is lose a semester doing something that wasn't thought out.  It's really naive to think you'll just put the dc in school and have every problem go away.  My ds is complex and it took the better part of this school year and many many meetings to get his IEP done.  And I didn't contest anything.  If I had actually been putting him in the school, I would have fought for adequate services and appropriate providers.  As is, all I needed was the services (in any amount) so we could use our state disability scholarship.

 

So SLOW DOWN.

 

 Cogmed to up 6%ile processing speed?  30% increase on that?   :lol:  I'm sorry, but can we please pull out the calculator on that?  Get some OT first.  Go do metronome work first.  You have a lot you need to do to lay a FOUNDATION so he's ready to go in and succeed with Cogmed.  Oh that psych won't tell you that, but it will make sense after you think about it.  I'm not saying you *can't* do Cogmed first.  I'm saying if you did some other things first (like OT, like metronome work which you can do for FREE, did we mention FREE), you could get in a better position.  Then that 30% bump might be on a higher number.  You don't need Cogmed to increase working memory.  It  (Cogmed) won't typically touch processing speed, but we've had several people do Interactive Metronome and go from single digit to 30s percentiles on process speed.  That's from horrific to functional, kwim?  

 

Slow down.  The psych was being emotionally manipulative, and you're going to have to get BACK IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT on this process.  If you want options, find them.  You want options for dyscalculia?  That's sure what you're describing.  Ronit Bird, Ronit Bird, Ronit Bird.  Anything you want options on, we can give you options on.

 

 That ps will be there in a semester if you decide you can't make changes and get breakthroughs.  Others HAVE been able to do this, and it's absolute RUBBISH to imply you can't and that the ps can.  Furthermore, the EXTREME probability is that going to ps would HINDER his progress.  Now maybe you have an awesome district.  Go talk with them and see!  But in our district nobody is tutoring dyslexics with any version of OG.  How would my boy learn to read???  Oh, I forgot, that MIGHT be why the stats are so poor here.  That MIGHT be why I overhear moms telling their kids to read by looking at the pictures.   :cursing:

 

So is your dh ADHD as well?  

[Rosiered]

well he went from 10th% to 58th% on speed on the developmental eye movement test and from the 1st% to 52nd% on errors.  The doctor stated that the therapy was moderately successful.  The eye teaming, focusing, and eye tracking problems were vitually eliminated.  He should be able to read and complete school work without any discomfort.  I have him read 1 page aday for his hamster (Olga de Polga, about a guinea pig:) and I am always noticing errors on his part.  the doctor stated that he and his therapist would have to often ask themselves over the 37 sessions of vision therapy - won't he or can't he.  He is the one who strongly recommended the child study.  

 

the ed consultant is a psychologist and gave me the results of the IQ test and the reading/math test.  she does not give diagnosis.  She leaves that for a psychiatrist or neural pediactric doctor.  She talked about ADD/ADHD a lot and working memory and processing speed and the scores I stated 1st thing and the services he would receive if he were in pS and how we would probably go bankrupt ifwe did it on our own but we could look into doing it with homeschooling. 

 

My next goal is to discuss this with a more homeschool friendly ed. counselor - she is like 1/2 the price of this one.  The referring doc talked me out of going to her, he did not know her and saw that the test times were shorter and price was 1/2 and said that my kid is a complicated kid and deserves the full test time.  The math/reading test, he had to beg for 2 bathroom breaks, I told the proctor that he should have breaks and she said that it was not set up that way.  It was an expensive test.  I hope to get perhaps some advice from her - iep like.

 

Perhaps I don't need to go to the 2nd ed. counselor but I will try to get on board with Sharon Hensley's group Almaden Valley Christian School for special needs advice.  I inquired with her to see if I can send her the study and have her help me draw up an IEP and she gives me tips throughout the year. Of course I'm in NJ and she is in CA but it can still be done.  Also I have also set up with Weisman Children's Rehabilitation Hospital for Occupational Therapy.  Sometimes the wait time is 6 month.  They'll mail me paperwork. I have to get the study to the pediatrician and then from there get a script for therapy to give to Weisman.  Then get treatment.

 

I was thinking of then perhaps seeing a neural pediatric doctor for diagnosis.

 

What's your thought on this?

 

Sharon Hensley is the sp. needs consultant for MODG but she has her own site. 

It was recommended to me by a tutor who I used last year to give me tips (but she does not do add/adhd, its not her expertise) she has been extremely helpful helping me get organized on my plan.  She said you need to 1st get someone to give me tips/tools to help my son. she said do NOT put him PS, she experienced that with her son who had asperger's.  She then said when I give the study to the pediatrician put a cover letter on it stating that he had to beg for breaks and he did not know the full importance of the test, if he did then he probably would have done better.  

I will hold off on cogmed

 

I think I will do the following:

Sharon Hensley's group hopefully can help me help my son

purchase http://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196Xand maybe this http://stores.diannecraft.org/brain-integration-therapy-manual/

try to get some help from Diane Craft maybe once her e-mail help gets reopened late summer just to make sure???

all the time I know I will be on the waiting list for OT at Weisman

then I guess see a neural pediatrician (I do know of one that is homeschool friendly in North Jersey)

then if needed do Cogmed.

your thoughts please?

I don't have a diagnosis.  Thank you!!!

[Rosiered]

oh I'vebeensooo self-centered!  I'm so sorry about your fil passing!  Thank you for sharing.  Thank you for your advice.  So sad to see someone go.  I remember when my dear mother passed.  I was with her but did miss when the moment occured.  I was with her all the other times.  

[ktgrok]

I think you have a very good plan. Good luck! 

[Rosiered]

he is doing multiplication.com and in my opinion he has gotten better. He said that the multiplication factposter that I took down helped him remember a few mathfacts but the others just always used it to get the answer without any retention.

[Pen]

Sounds a bit like my kid.  I'd think homeschool would be better because he can work at his own level and excel where he is more able and go slower where he needs to do that.

[Rosiered]

found this on cogmed, similar reports on jungle memory, hmmm... lumenosity is cheaper anyway and my DS liked the free games it provided.  either way I'll try this AFTER OT is complete.

[Crimson Wife]

So I've been mulling over what OhE said about Cogmed and I went back through the various reports I have. The neuropsych ran the Leiter, which is a non-verbal IQ test. I can't figure out which of the subtests (if any) measure processing speed, but they're all in the above-average to gifted range. The school psych back in December ran a WPPSI and even without hearing aids, DD scored a bit above average (63rd percentile) on the one processing subtest run.

 

The working memory tests that the neuropsych ran were in the 3rd to 5th percentile for visual WM and 1st to 2nd percentile for auditory WM. So there's a very big discrepancy between the rest of her non-verbal cognitive functioning and the visual WM.

 

She has done well with literally every type of therapy we've ever tried with her. She catches on quickly even if she remains delayed compared with her chronological peers (because she started out SO far behind). It makes me think that her underlying information processing ability has to be relatively intact, KWIM?

 

Cogmed is an expensive gamble but from everything I've read about brain plasticity, the younger the child is, the easier to rewire those connections.

[Soror]

fwiw I'm late here but I did Cogmed with ds in January, he was about 10.5 at the time and it showed definite improvements in working memory and attention (the NP and asst were shocked as the difference in attention as that really isn't supposed to happen like this but it was huge for ds- he was also taking pyconegel as well so I don't know if that was at play too but even now as we've gotten off track with taking it he seems to do fair in this regard). As to the best order to do it in, I don't know about that but we were at the point that it seemed like a good option that we needed to pursue. We should be doing his 6 month follow-up soon and we're anxious to see how he does. It seems that he has kept the WM and attention improvements. I would say however that from I remember reading studies I don't think that Cogmed has been shown to have that much of an improvement, ds did phenomenal but he didn't improve that much, also he is a very persistent and hardworking kid that doesn't shy away from things that are hard and I believe that is why he succeeded as well as he did but I wouldn't try it with just any kid, it was hard for both of us.

[Crimson Wife]

Our insurance screwed up the switch in speech therapy vendors (we finally got off the waiting list at the clinic specializing in deaf & hard-of-hearing kids) so long story short I had to put off starting CogMed. I'm now leaning towards trying Jungle Memory and seeing how DD responds to that. It seems like "CogMed Lite".

[PeterPan]

Crimson, Cogmed has research on their site.  When I looked there last fall, the most recent studies they had posted showed young children (specifically 1st graders) made little progress with Cogmed.  It sorta makes sense when you think about it, that they're fiddling more with the motor planning, how to work a mouse, etc.  The psych I talked with said he recommends people wait till at least 8 on Cogmed.  For ds, I figured that might as well be 10.

 

I'll look up JM.  Is it less money?  You know what else would be interesting is to see what happens if you did Cogmed on a touchscreen laptop, hmm... I got this one for my MIL.  Does Cogmed have some interactive trials or only non-interactive demo videos?  I forget.  Anyways, I think a touchscreen might make a big difference in how Cogmed would work for a young child, just my theory.

[Soror]

Our insurance screwed up the switch in speech therapy vendors (we finally got off the waiting list at the clinic specializing in deaf & hard-of-hearing kids) so long story short I had to put off starting CogMed. I'm now leaning towards trying Jungle Memory and seeing how DD responds to that. It seems like "CogMed Lite".

The hard thing to me with making the decision is that CogMed is a bit secretive as to the details of their program, after doing it and looking at the other programs the main difference I saw was the level of adaptability and challenge of CogMed is greater than other programs, it really pushes the kid and as I said it is TOUGH, now the younger kid version I would assume is easier but how much easier relative to the kid's age I don't know. From my NP I got the impression that lots of families have difficulties finishing because of the commitment and effort required, which of course wasn't mentioned up front. Now they strongly suggests various rewards and I believe that is for good reason, we used a lot with ds to help get him through, even so I could so kids just not being able to handle it, it just persistently stays really hard so it is easy to be discouraged while doing it. It doesn't matter how well they do on any of it it stays hard, they never conquer anything.

[PeterPan]

I decided in my own mind (from reading comments here, whatever) that Cogmed is probably as hard as VT for some kids and as unpleasant.  My dd is pretty challenging when things are frustrating or hard, so it's something we've talked about, that if we do it she has to realize that upfront.

[Soror]

I decided in my own mind (from reading comments here, whatever) that Cogmed is probably as hard as VT for some kids and as unpleasant.  My dd is pretty challenging when things are frustrating or hard, so it's something we've talked about, that if we do it she has to realize that upfront.

We didn't do VT as the COVD said it wasn't needed but yes I would agree that if you go in knowing that it would be good. I would think as well if you have an older child that really sees the need and wants the improvement then it would be easier than perhaps a younger kid who doesn't necessarily understand the whys(of course personalities vary and some kids are just really easy going at any age). The thing about Cogmed as well is that it is 5 days a week and ours was pushing 60 min for most days, the first couple of weeks were really more than that and then we cut down on the amount we did, thank goodness for the personal adjustment.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I'll look up JM.  Is it less money?  

 

A *LOT* less money. $49 for 8 weeks' subscription. I figure that if my DD responds to JM, that's a sign that it makes sense to try the preschool/primary version of CogMed. If she doesn't respond, then we're out a much smaller amount of money.

 

The NP for the deaf really seemed to think CogMed is beneficial for kids with hearing loss. As she wouldn't be the one to oversee it, there's no financial conflict of interest for her to push it, KWIM?

[clemota]

 

Dysgraphia affects not only legibility and writing speed but the ability to organize thoughts and create coherent sentences and paragraphs.  You will need to scaffold for your child.  You will need to scribe for your child and do it freely and without guilt or concern.  Dr. Charles Haynes produced a webinar that breaks down the writing process very well, and I encourage you to view it.  Accommodate....Scaffold.....and accommodate some more.  Be prepared to teach your child to type and/or use speech to text software such as Dragon Speak.

 

This. 

 

DD13 was diagnosed at age 11 with stealth dyslexia and dysgraphia.  I had been wondering for years why she could sound so intelligent when she spoke, but when she wrote down her thoughts they were odd, and messy.  Her math was never lined up correctly, and full of simple mistakes.  DUH! 

 

She learned how to type, and makes use of word-prediction software.  I scribe for her in math, so that she can retain the info without losing her facts because her brain is trying so hard to remember how to make her numbers.  We do a lot of work orally.  Sometimes she records herself on the iPad as a "presentation" rather than writing out answers.  It's a lot of extra work.  A LOT.  But even with a 504 in place, I can't be guaranteed that our local public school will offer her this kind of support from EVERY teacher, for EVERY class, for EVERY bit of classwork and homework.  If I find it a lot of work, how in the heck are teachers with 30 other kids in the class going to be able to devote that kind of time to her?

 

Quick answer: they can't. 

 

But I can.

 

And so can you.  Homeschooling is likely the better solution because you know you can guarantee that your child will be given appropriate accommodations and scaffolding 100% of the time.   For math, for writing, for any subject you can think of, you can provide it.   And it will make the difference in how your son thinks about himself and how he succeeds.

 

 

(Edited to correct really bad grammatic use of "is are" :glare: )