Need audio curricula recommendations for 14 yr old with SEVERE dyslexia

[queen620]

I need audio curricula help for a 14 yr old with auditory & visual dyslexia, executive memory function, AD/HD, and likely SPD (has an ASD brother with similar emotional issues).  I had a nice post typed out, explaining why it needed to be audio,  but it is all gone.  Essentially, I need audio SCIENCE curricula for my son. 

 Thanks.   

[ssavings]

Apologia has audio of some of their science. Someone said once if you provide documentation of the dyslexia, they'll discount or provide free the audio (forget which).

 

Is your DS signed up for Learning Ally? Might be worth a search of their website to see what they have for science on his level, then you can decide if it's worth signing up.

[MyLittleBears]

Do you have an official diagnosis. If so perhaps your doc could fill out a bookshare form for your ds. From what I understand you can get almost any book in audio format, including textbooks.

[Gilina]

If you have a formal diagnosis, you can sign up for Learning Ally.  The AGS science books are well done and available in audio format from Learning Ally.

[displace]

Sorry no specifics but many states have library centers for blind services extended to dyslexics.

 

I know supercharged science is audio visual but I'm not sure if that would work or not.

[queen620]

Yes, we have an official diagnosis.  I had a nice long post typed out and it disappeared.  My son is 14, has an official diagnosis of visual & auditory dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, executive memory function, AD/HD and likely SPD if I'd push for more testing!  

He has a slightly above average IQ when reading scores are factored out.   He has an excellent vocabulary, despite his reading issues.  He tested with an equivalent word knowledge/usage of a 23 yr old.   (YEAH, for Sonlight and always using an audio curricula!  Now I want something not so parent intense that will give him more freedom.)

He has had 2 years of Barton tutoring, along with several other OG based programs before moving onto a private Barton tutor.   The tutor was wonderful, but when he wasn't progressing past level 4 she felt it was time to get a formal diagnosis and put him in a private school that could better address his unique needs.  The dr who did his diagnosis said it was on of the worst cases he had diagnosed in his years of practice.  I'd say the dr was in his early 60s.   He also felt my son needs private education.   That was a year ago.  My state of NC has a Special Ed grant for kids with an IEP in place.  The grant pays out a max of $3,000 a semester for private school or homeschool parents seeking reimbursement.   The private schools we looked at were $17,000, so we would need at least 50% scholarship to make up the difference the grant won't cover.   That is unlikely to happen.  The school is also a 30 minute drive each direction, and honestly, I don't want to do that much driving.  I have 6 kids and there are some other needs in there including one son with ASD.   We put my son in public school so we could apply for the grant.  He has been approved.   

My husband is now unsure we should pull him back out to homeschool him.  I feel the PS is screwing my kid over and not providing what he needs.  The teachers are just bound to push him along.  They spent this year completely avoiding providing any OG reading like was discussed at several IEP meetings.    I want to pull him out and go back to homeschooling.  My husband has some valid concerns as my son is high strung and angry.  He is a hard person to be with all day.  HOWEVER, I think PS has exasperated his situation bc/ he is so out of his league.  He spends so much of his day trying to hide that he can't read, that when he gets home he is just explosive and angry.  :( He wasn't this bad before PS a year ago.   I am not naive. I do not think bringing him home will magically make his emotional issues go away.  I do however think they won't get better as long as he stays in PS.  I see behavior issues creeping in at school also.  He and another student got into an altercation that ended with my son punching him after the other student pulled my son's seat out and my son fell to the floor.   Both students ended up with a 2 day ISS.   I see more stuff like this in our future if we don't make changes.   

Since my husband has so many reservations, I want to have a specific list of what I will buy and what I will be using with my son.  I also want to have projects available to keep my son occupied when school is done.    
Here is my curricula plan so far:
*TT math not sure which level-- (I have 3rd thru Algebra 1 so no worries really!)
* REading Horizons online for additional OG help. 
*Logic of English
*History-- SOTW audio level 3 Early Us history

NEED ideas
** Science (have several apologia levels, but need audio files or something.)
**looking at Touch, Type & REad to help with typing and reinforce reading



I will also be pulling out my 5th grader who was in school for reading help.  He has gotten lots of OG based reading help and is now reading at a 2nd grade level.  I'll be using many of the same audio resources for him.    My year will be busy with a 10th grader, 4 yr old & 2 yr old PLUS a 1st grader with ASD in public school-- so lots of driving!   Just trying to make the most well rounded plan so my husband might consent to bringing my 14 year old home along with our 10 yr old.   
I am not naive.  I don't know how far my son will get, but he is very hands on and mechanically minded.  I honestly need to get him far enough along with math and science so he can get into the shop/auto mechanic classes that our community college offers for 11 & 12th graders.   I know he can be successful in 10 years when he is out of school, but right now, I just don't know how to get there.   

Thanks.   

FTR-- yes we have had Learning Ally in the past.  Our subscription expired and we need to renew it.  I will be renewing it when I start buying curricula for reimbursement!   
 

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'll just step in timidly and give my two cents.  Our state has a disability program also, but we have to use it through registered providers.  Are you able to get reimbrusement for materials?  I would not buy LOE/Horizons.  I suggest you pick back up with Barton.  If he's that hard to work with, it might the tutor was having a lot more behavioral problems than she was admitting and that he needs more time/support to get through Barton 4.  Barton is a significantly superior program to LOE+Horizons, so it makes no sense to step down like that.

 

Two, I would get him OT to work on the SPD and behavioral stuff.  Look into neurofeedback and IM (metronome) work.  You can do the metronome work at home with him.

 

Three, grade adjust to relieve some of your pressure right now.  Use the disability funds to get the SPD under control and get him more functional.  You mentioned his mechanical gifts and getting ready for a program.  Yes, this is awesome!  And maybe a grade adjust to give him that extra year to get some of these things more stable so he's ready, kwim?  It's at least an option.  But yes, by all means look at programs like that and let him see his goals and what he can do to get there.

 

Four, get Cogmed or do other cognitive therapies and/or get him on ADHD meds.  The meds would improve emotional regulation.  The Cogmed would help working memory and EF.  Odds are he was hitting serious working memory issues in Barton 4.  He may need targeted work on this.  If you don't want to use your funding for it, there are hack ways to do it at home that are also effective.  

 

Five, consider working on RAN/RAS.  I have posted pages in the past at a dropbox link if you search for it.

 

Six, he's going to need EF supports.  He needs Inspiration software and a device to run it on.  Does he have a computer?  Something he can do dictation with?  That would be a good use of your funds.  Around here providers recommend a chromebook, because they are affordable and able to run what the kids need for school work.  Look into Inspiration software and see if the chromebook will run it, don't know.  

 

Seven, can someone from your church help you?  Or a mother's helper?  If you could get a teen to sit your 4 and 2 yos and do crafts or make cookies or simple things, it might make you more free to take your older dc to his OT appts.  I've got my 16 yo doing neurofeedback right now and my ds6 will start in August.  My dd turned out to have remnants of a retained primitive reflex and my ds has at least 3.  He is my one with all three SLDs, ADHD, and ASD labels, and he's easier to work with and more stable since we started OT.  At least just an eval would be good, to see if there's anything going on there, kwim?  Three weeks of OT and the change in ds was noticeable.  Dd says the neurofeedback makes her feel like she thought ritalin would.  Cha-ching.

[queen620]

At this point I don't know if I can use funds to get reimbursement for OT.  Our Insurance won't cover ANYTHING in relation to OT or EF-- we looked into working with a SLP who could focus on his APD & EF.  Our insurance wouldn't cover ANYTHING.  We applied for Medicaid as secondary insurance.  Too many loopholes in NC, and Medicaid only has to cover services that our primary will cover.  So our primary won't cover, Medicaid won't cover.  (We are in the same situation with our ASD 6 yr old!)   

As far as Barton, I just don't know.  I know it is a solid program, it just is so boring.   I don't mean everything has to be fun, but I think part of  it was a lack of color and visual appeal--- and then the AD/HD kicks in.   I'm not discussing medicine.  I didn't put it in b/c it isn't an  option.  We've tried several different meds and dosages.   One left him angry--- think homicidal.   The other one he was having heart palpitations and we never saw any results from it.   I am DEEP into biomedical treatments for my ASD son.   We have done genetic testing on my ASD 6 yr old & this child.  Both have a slew of genetic issues that we are working on addressing with vitamins and minerals and diet.   At this point I am unwilling to consider meds.   It would be one thing if I had a dr that had done as much homework as to why it meds weren't t working versus just writing a different script.    I also suspect he has Lyme disease or other Tick borne disease which could be affect so many neurological things.  Sigh…insurance...

Back to my frustration with Barton, my son is at a point he is just done.  He is stuck and doesn't see that he is moving forward.  It took two years to get to the end of level four.   He worked so hard and saw no results.   I think that definitely contributes to his low self esteem.   The dr who did his diagnostic testing felt it would likely take my son TEN YEARS of daily work to get to a 6th grade reading level.  Honestly, my son won't keep doing the work if he doesn't see any results.   I hate to sound like I have given up;  I haven't.  I'm just very realistic that he meets the truest meaning of dyslexia-- word blindness.    

I have taken a huge step back and the more I learn about biomedical treatments for LD/ASD/ADHD…I'm convinced we have missed the boat.  I've spent years treating his symptoms, but never got to the root cause.  I don't think he will move forward until we figure out the root cause here.   I have been devouring all things related to Dr. Robert Melilio Disconnected Kids  and Diane Craft's Brain Integration Therapy.      Sigh…just stuck.  I am desperate to help my son, just I know what we have been doing isn't working, so I need a new plan.    

[PeterPan]

Did you just say he has APD on top of this?  

 

See here's the problem.  I want to be really careful here, because we have some certified Barton trainers on the board and I totally respect their work, but there's NO WAY these people are qualified, just with the Barton training, to work on the hardest cases.  You just said your ds has ADHD, ASD, APD, SPD, keep listing and listing.  That's a HARD mix!  And it's not even just behavioral.  My ds has most of that mix and verbal apraxia.  My ds does not "fit" Barton at all.  I have to make Barton fit him.  Ds reads a sentence and doesn't even know what "he" was referring to!  I'm constantly innovating with him.  I have all kinds of extra things I need to do with him.  It's not that Barton is a poor fit but that he needs MORE.  

 

So with all respect to all the good they do, I think it's fair game to say you might need a tutor with significantly more training in ASD and your mix.  With our local private tutors, I can pay ($65 an hour, ouch) and get a tutor who is an SLP with an additional ASD certification who is also ASD certified.  That's the kind of mix you're looking for.  That's basically the equivalent of three master's degrees.  That's what it would take to work with my ds properly.  A Barton tutor is someone who has taught at least 3 children through Barton 2 who then went and did a workshop with Susan Barton.  It's appropriate training for typical dyslexic situations.  What you have is NOT typical.  I've written Barton, and when I ask things she says no, that's not the dyslexia, that's the ASD making everything harder.  She has resources, but there's just a lot extra that needs to be done for really complex situations.

 

So that would be one thing to consider, to look for a tutor who is OG certified AND who has their ASD certificate AND who is an SLP or as close to that mix as you can get.  They are out there.  That's the preparation this local tutor feels is necessary for these really complex cases.  

 

Don't die on the hill of meds.  I don't have either of my kids on them.  I did biomedical stuff to myself years ago for mcs, so I understand why you're drawn to it and hope it works for you.  If you can find a provider of neurofeedback who would be covered by your program, that might appeal to you.  Like I said, I'm all in with my kids for it.

 

I'm perplexed though, why won't your state disability program cover OT?  Ours does IF the OT is listed as direct services in the IEP. We are able to use the funding to cover anything in our IEP.  The ps will put OT in the IEP.  So yeah, I feel for you.  That's nuts.  Around here you can sometimes get a feeder OT eval for $80.  If you could at least find out if he has retained primitive reflexes, it would be helpful to you.  I'm totally disgusted to realize how many things get glitchy when there are retained primitive reflexes.  There is a copy of the master RMT poster.  new small poster1.jpg 1,478×1,093 pixels  and then when you google the individual reflexes you can sometimes find the individual reflex posters.  208-RMT-Reflex-Integration-Chart-Set-Set-of-12-A4.jpg 1,226×1,735 pixels  Those posters show the tests for each one as well.  There are 17 exercises (some passive, some active), and the ones you use for each reflex overlap.  In other words, do all 17 and you've hit them all, even if you don't figure out how to test for them.  I've heard stories of the free exercises you find online for reflex integration NOT working.  RMT exercises work and are what OTs do.

 

BalavisX you can get the book for.  It's about $20 on amazon, and then you just use squash balls.  It's actually supposed to help auditory issues as well, believe it or not, because the bouncing of the balls is so rhythmic.  Neurofeedback too can supposedly help with auditory issues.  I don't know, just saying what they claim.  

 

Anyways, I just like these things I can do at home myself for free.  The RMT you can do yourself if you can figure out the poster.  BalavisX is almost free ($20).  

 

So what are you able to use the funding for??  Tuition but not therapies?  What happens if you declare yourself a private school, file the paperwork for that, and then take the funding and create an IEP and implement it?  I don't know, I'm just saying that would be really frustrating to get a disability scholarship that could be used as tuition but nothing else, mercy.  Do you have to use a cover school or registered provider who supervises it?  How do they determine what you're allowed to use it for?

 

Just a total aside, but has he had a developmental vision exam?  I know you don't want more labels, lol.  I'm just saying with you saying word blindness, that's making me wonder about his visual memory.  When I had my dd tested at age 11, she had the visual memory of a 2 yo!  It was no WONDER she was having so many problems, lol!  We did vision therapy, and within a matter of months that turned around.  It doesn't cure dyslexia.  I'm just saying if he has vision problems (needing glasses, developmental vision problems, whatever) it would make the dyslexia especially hard.  You go to COVD to find a developmental optometrist.  I always suggest starting with just a regular annual visit, that way you make sure you like the doc, etc.  Ask him to screen for the developmental stuff, then you'll know if you need to pursue the full developmental eval or not.  For some kids it can make a really big difference.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Btw, the problem with the Barton is not that it's boring.  The problem is the person wasn't connecting and wasn't staying fast enough.  My ds has ADHD-combined and will be in his seat one minute and GONE the next.  If there was anyone for whom it would be BORING it would be my ds, lol.  When I sit down to work with my ds we WORK.  Like bam, bam, bam FAST!  Most people are not ready to put in that kind of energy.  You talk with our local tutors who are great with these kids, and they sound like they're on SPEED.  Seriously, they are FAST.  

 

What's his processing speed?  That should have come in his IQ testing.  My dd has a very low processing speed, so fast for her is still nailbitingly slow.  My ds has a much, much higher processing speed, so fast with him is really, really fast!  Again, it's not a knock against the Barton tutors because I think the more the better, they do a great work.  I'm just saying go up to the next level.  Find the person who can keep him going and pick up the pace.  You don't need color, pictures, etc.  You need more ENGAGEMENT.

 

I'm sorry your ds was so long with a tutor who made him feel unsuccessful.  I just wouldn't assume it was him.  It really might have been the tutor.  I've heard stories about a dc who was told by the dyslexia school that he would never read (NEVER), who changed to a different tutor and in one year jumped multiple grade levels.  Chew on that.  The tutor makes a HUGE, huge difference.  

 

If you're going to teach him yourself, get Barton.  I'm just begging you.  Reconsider.  Consider that there was a lot more than standard needed, that you need all the tools of Barton AND all the love and extra energy you'll bring.  LOE and Horizons isn't even close to the same tool set.  OR even think about going and getting some OG training yourself, kwim?  Maybe that would help you over this hump.  It's going to take a lot more tools, not less.

 

Secrets?  We break up our days of Barton with days of contextualized reading.  As in we turn on the Wii and play a game like Dawn of Discovery and try to do the reading.  Or we get out my ipad and play a game together like Agricola or Castaway Island that have bits of text.  You don't need the color in your actual instruction.  You can bring it in other ways like that, kwim?  Or I'll whip out a board game with cards that you need to read (Star Trek Catan) and we'll read those cards as we play.  Seriously, think out of the box here.

 

Ok, another divergence.  I think the most hurtful thing about Barton is that it pairs so many skills together into one seemingly inflexible path that makes it look like you can't change it.  I can TOTALLY see where our kids could get stuck in level 4!!  Nuts, my ds was stuck once those full page stories started.  He could read the words, read the phrases, and eventually get through the sentences.  But to read the stories?  Just not there.  Not the way they want.  And we did things to bridge it, like typing out each sentence of the story and putting them into a booklet to illustrate as we read.  (more color! more engagement!) However even that wasn't him really reading the stories the way they imply.  I talked with SB, and she said it was the ASD, not the dyslexia.  I decided to separate the skills.  So he's all over the place with Barton, plowing through Barton 4 for lessons but way back at the beginning of 3 for ability to read long text stories.  And that's OK!!  

 

But imagine if I had only the Barton training and got really stuck and said no, can't do that, we'll just stay put till he gets it. (not that they would, but if they did) Imagine if I didn't have the hutzpah to say ok, then lets get another program to work on prosody, let's take a 10 year view and know we'll get there eventually.  Then yes, I'd have a ds who was STUCK and whose self-esteem was crap.  Instead, I've got someone who can read a phrase or sentence and I tell him he's brilliant.  Because I decided a sentence or phrase for him IS brilliant, kwim?  

 

So I know with my ds this is a long-term process.  It's not like just oh if I added color and he had more fun the decoding would click and then all the rest would click.  It's more like oh my lands if we spend years at the word and sentence level, eventually we'll get it to come together at the paragraph level.  And we need to work on prosody and intonation because he can't get them while reading.  And he has morphology and meta-linguistic issues where he's not noticing the bits.  He has had detailed language testing and this came up.  That's not something that goes away by adding color, kwim?  It was so much more complex.  So I'm looking at programs for prosody/intonation and programs for morphology, because he needs them.  Barton alone isn't enough.  

[imagine.more]

When he got to Level 4 of Barton was his reading any better in real life? Or was he struggling with Barton and not seeing results in real life? Because I can completely understand why he'd be frustrated if that were the case! 2 years of hard work on boring material (I love Barton but ITA that it is boring :) ) would drive anyone crazy. About what grade level would you say he is reading at? And at what point in the Barton program did he start struggling to retain things? Because that might give some clues. 

 

I do agree though that LOE probably wouldn't help him and would be a waste of time/money. It's a solid program but if even Barton left him struggling then LOE would move way too fast. 

 

I wonder if a non-barton OG tutor would be better for him? I know the OG program I went through in Maryland really emphasized making it fun and interesting and breaking up sessions. Our instructor also said straight out that kids will hit a wall at certain points and when that happens we'll need to stick with it until they break through, which sometimes takes months. She worked with many gifted and severely dyslexic kids too who often went on to be very successful in life and academics, and yet they might have spent 6+ months just mastering the 6 syllable types or silent-e. 

 

ITA with OhElizabeth that Barton tutor training alone isn't sufficient for the most severe cases and I think anyone who has done Barton would agree. It's awesome for typical dyslexics and even fairly severe but straightforward dyslexia. But personally having OG training from an outside source AND utilizing Barton myself I often have to step outside the script and help DD because she is HOH and intellectually disabled, not just dyslexic. And your son has different disabilities but no less complicated I'm sure, especially when you factor in his anger and frustration, which are not uncommon in 14 year old boys with ADHD/EF issues. So finding an OG tutor who is certified....ie has the full 60 hour training AND about 100 hours of supervised tutoring, could provide the real help he needs. And if the grant would cover it then you'd be all set! I mean, $50-75 an hour is not uncommon for an OG tutor with specialized training but if you can be reimbursed up to $3000 a semester that allows for quite a bit of wiggle room. You could do tutoring 3x a week for 18 weeks at $50 an hour and have all of it reimbursed. Plus an hour of tutoring would give you a break ;) 

 

Insurance is so frustrating, we've struggled to get things covered for our DD as well and it drives me batty when there are these huge gaps that neither the school system or the insurance company will cover. Anyway, maybe this grant will be more relaxed and will cover OT and EF. It couldn't hurt to look into it. 

 

I think if I were you I'd make a list of therapies/programs you'd like your DS to have this year based on which skill areas he needs help in and then plot out the cost of each and prioritize based on the grant money you'll have access to. Then you can implement things in a systematic way to help him. 

 

Also, I think it's AWESOME how high his vocabulary is given his struggles! I mean, that is a huge vocabulary even for someone who can read independently and he can't! And, given the fact that his emotional struggles increased this year in public school I'd say you were doing a good job of providing a home environment that allowed him to succeed emotionally and behaviorally. Though 14 year old boys are notorious for going through a really rough phase for about 1-2 years there so I also don't think it's all the school's fault; it might just be the perfect storm of age/hormones/school transition that resulted in his behavior getting worse. 

 

Not to sidetrack but, I'd love to know more about this grant program you're utilizing! We just moved to NC a month ago and like I mentioned my DD has several learning disabilities. We're homeschooling currently and we're hoping to transition her to the Catholic school for high school. Any grant money for curriculum or later for tuition would be fantastic!

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'll throw out something.  If our kids are engaged and really thinking (and have done some bodywork to get in a good place where they can settle down and focus), they're not bored.  I think it's sometimes that WE are bored.  And since I'm totally the queen of that, I'm just saying to watch for it.  I play tricks with myself, like I never read ahead on the lessons.  If I do, I can't bring myself to slow down and stay focused.  I get too big picture and want to zip zoom!  So whether it's Ronit Bird math or Barton or anything else, if I need to keep it at a certain pace, I don't allow myself to read ahead at all.  I prep just what is needed for that one section and STOP.  That way it's at least new and interesting for me.  

 

Also, I bring out the food.  Craisins, raisins, pistachios that you have to shell, celery, anything.  

[Julie of KY]

I would strongly urge you to renew your Learning Ally subscription and then use it how YOU want to school. If there is a specific science curriculum that you want your son to do see if it is already recorded, if not ask them to record it.

 

I take my Sonlight list and first see what's already recorded on Learning Ally. Then I decide which books I want to read aloud, any I want to drop and then I ask them to record the rest - they'll do it and it'll serve you as well as others.

 

I have bought Mystery of History audio books and bought a bunch of YWAM audiobooks for my dyslexics. I also use the library a lot. Teaching Company may also have things you might be interested it - high level teaching on audio, dvd, or downloadable.

 

To limit how much you spend, I'd first invest in a Learning Ally subscription and then decide if you want to spend more on other stuff. Make your dream list of books you want your son to hear and then work with Learning Ally.

 

 

[queen620]

Did you just say he has APD on top of this?  

 

See here's the problem.  I want to be really careful here, because we have some certified Barton trainers on the board and I totally respect their work, but there's NO WAY these people are qualified, just with the Barton training, to work on the hardest cases.  You just said your ds has ADHD, ASD, APD, SPD, keep listing and listing.  That's a HARD mix!  And it's not even just behavioral.  My ds has most of that mix and verbal apraxia.  My ds does not "fit" Barton at all.  I have to make Barton fit him.  Ds reads a sentence and doesn't even know what "he" was referring to!  I'm constantly innovating with him.  I have all kinds of extra things I need to do with him.  It's not that Barton is a poor fit but that he needs MORE.  

 

 

 

Sorry--- I was trying not to use names of my kids.  My 14 yr old DOES NOT have ASD.  I do think he has undiagnosed SPD, and I say that b/c my 6 yr old spent a lot of time dealing with SPD before he fully slipped into ASD.   Anyway.  

My 14 yr old has visual & auditory dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, AD/HD, Irlen's syndrom (but that is a recent diagnosis), dysgraphia, dyscalculia…and I think that is everything!   (And based on some recent genetic testing he has a slew of genetic issues that are likely contributing on a very deep cellular level.  He also has 99% of the symptoms for Lyme disease, but need money to pursue testing!)  

 

 

How far did he get?   He struggled the entire time with our tutor.   I think the tutor was FABULOUS.  She kept him very much engaged and moving forward.  She had some issues with the AD/HD, but in general the behavior issues I see at home, never popped up there.   I think I really got hard at about level 3.   But honestly, Barton wasn't the first OG program we were using.  It was just the first one I was paying a tutor to implement.   I think by mid level 3 when all the blends showed up is when his Auditory Processing Disorder really kicked in.   I think he truly can't hear the difference in many of the phonemes.  He was in speech therapy until he was 5.    He was a late talker-- 3.5 almost 4.  When he did start talking he was very garbled.   Looking back now I can see so many of the early warning signs.   We left him in preschool an extra year b/c of his speech issues and his late birthday.   So he was 6 when we really got to work homeschooling for K.    I was using Sonlight LA, now I think it is too loose for LD kids.  I was also using 100 Easy lessons.  His older brother responded well to it, so I just assumed it would work again.   We got to about lesson 60 and it was obvious he wasn't retaining anything.   So we would start over.   We started over 3 times before I gave up!   (no flames please!)   By that time he was 8 and I knew something was off.  I asked around in my circles and no one knew anything.   I just spun my wheels puttering and trying over and over again.  I kept changing programs.   By the time he was 10 I knew we weren't making any tangible progress.  I was asking anyone I knew of any tutors.   My bff saw a posting in the homeschool email loop for the lady that would become our tutor.  My son started with her & Barton right before he turned 11.    (I really wonder if he has just missed the window…to master reading.)    

 

 

I am just at a loss.   I already have the LoE b/c i bought it for my 10 yr old.   So I have already spent the money.   I do have options of course with the special ed grant.  I can buy what I want-- max $3,000 per semester.   Honestly, going back to our previous tutor (who I do not think is the issue) isn't an option.  She lives 30 minutes from my house.   I end up driving an hour twice a week with several of my little kids in tow.   It was such a disruption out our school those 2 years we did it.  I mentally can't go back to that much driving.   I am already driving my ASD 6 yr old to and from school everyday.   Her price was $40 an hour.   So even though I can get reimbursed for materials, I have to pay upfront for everything.  I really need to buy whatever I'm buying with my husband's next quarterly bonus in August.   Then I'll likely hold off ordering more for the winter semester until I get reimbursed from the state in December or January.   

 

I looked into a SLP working with him for his EF and APD, but our insurance won't cover it.  At all.   Nothing.   We applied for Medicaid as secondary insurance.   In my state if my primary doesn't cover it, medicaid doesn't have to cover it.  So still…NOTHING.   The 30 min session were going to be $80 with a cash discount.  :( I can't afford that, even with being reimbursed later.   

 

 

[queen620]

When he got to Level 4 of Barton was his reading any better in real life? Or was he struggling with Barton and not seeing results in real life? Because I can completely understand why he'd be frustrated if that were the case! 2 years of hard work on boring material (I love Barton but ITA that it is boring :) ) would drive anyone crazy. About what grade level would you say he is reading at? And at what point in the Barton program did he start struggling to retain things? Because that might give some clues. 

 

I do agree though that LOE probably wouldn't help him and would be a waste of time/money. It's a solid program but if even Barton left him struggling then LOE would move way too fast. 

 

 

 

I think he was frustrated b/c he could read the Barton material, but it was never moving over to real life.   I think that is part of the Executive Memory Function.   He would work hard and do great, and then the next day we would literally start over from what we did the day before.   There was very little forward moving…well at least with any great pace.   He did both evels 1 & 2 in about 8 months and then levels 3 & 4 took 8 mo each and he never really mastered the last few lessons on level 4.   

 

I already bought LoE for my 10 yr old that we are pulling out of public school also.  My 10 yr old is making a lot of progress and his local school has been using Wilson & Success for all (don't remember exact name, it seemed very OG based.  I really liked the lay out of it.)     

 

My son has had NO  direct reading instruction this school year.  PS was just too much and there wasn't enough time or energy left after homework was done to do more.   :(  

 

 

 

[queen620]

 

Not to sidetrack but, I'd love to know more about this grant program you're utilizing! We just moved to NC a month ago and like I mentioned my DD has several learning disabilities. We're homeschooling currently and we're hoping to transition her to the Catholic school for high school. Any grant money for curriculum or later for tuition would be fantastic!

 

Sorry-- missed this question initially.  

 

The biggest hurdle for homeschoolers claiming it is our kids have to have been in public school for the previous semester.  Honestly, I was so burnt out from my 14 yr old & his high needs AND my son was deep into ASD (think ATEC score 130- non verbal, poo smearing, flight risk…it was a bad 2 years between Barton tutoring and balancing public school for my ASD son.)      

I was also BROKE.  I mean I had spent $10,000 on Barton tutoring, diagnosis testing, gas, testing for my ASD son.  We were broke!!!   

We figured we could suck it up for the semester and get everything lined up.  In the end we left my 14 yr old in the entire school year, b/c I was on the verge of a mental breakdown.  I needed time.   So this past school year 3 or my 6 kids were in public school.  I got to enjoy being with my 2 littles and not worry that the older kids were losing a day of school b/c I took them to the museum or park.  It was a much needed mental break! 

 

 

The website for the grant is CRAZY.  There is so much double talk.  I have talked to the staff in the office and they seem nice and knowledgable.   From the staff it really sounds quite straightforward.  I buy my supplies and turn in receipts with explanation of what it was used for.   I have a max of $3,000 per semester.  The grant also covers electronic devices every 36 months.   They do have a form for pre approval for larger ticket items, to cut down on issues later.   

 

I have only applied and been approved.  I haven't turned in any receipts yet as I will be claiming it for the next school year for at least my 10 yr.  If my husband consents, I will also be claiming for my 14 yr old.   

 

 

http://www.ncseaa.edu/CDSG.htm

 

[queen620]

REading all these responses really makes me think I missed the boat with Barton.  Not, entirely, but I am a box checker.   If our tutor sent home homework…which she did, we got it done!   We saw her twice a week and the other 3 days we would average 30-60 minutes working through all the stuff she sent home.  I was BORED out of my mind.  He was bored too.  He wasn't bored with her.  I am so wishing I had been able to buy the sets or at least the tiles for more hands on work at home.   Oh well…hindsight is 20/20.

Are there any parents on here who are not OG trained or Barton trained?   That has been my biggest worry that I would screw him up even more.   I am terrified at branching out and really taking over doing this.  But it is clear the PS with a room full of Wilson material isn't going to provide the services, so i need to get serious.  And get husband on bored!   


Since we haven't done any formal reading in a year, and I HAVE LoE already, should we just dive in now?  Or should I wait and make a real plan?   If I go back to Barton, does he need to start at the beginning again?   I know level 4 wouldn't be a good place to dive in!   But do we start over since there has been a year gap?

[PeterPan]

1-Call Susan Barton.  Seriously, like pick up the phone and call her.  Tell her the whole deal and let her talk you through it.  She has placement tests for each level.

 

2-I was thinking about your situation this morning and my thought was that the homework was where it was breaking down.  Because you were not teaching it, you could not carry the methodology over.  I'm not a woman giving to cursing but there is NO WAY that those measley homework sheets would have even come CLOSE to doing what my ds needed.  Because you were not teaching Barton yourself, you couldn't see what was happening and that he needed more.  What I do is put all the words, phrases, and sentences from Barton into Quizlet. You can do quizlet on a computer, phone, ipad, anything you have access to.  It can do flashcards (what we do) but also a number of snazzy games.  What I find with my ds is that the first couple times we go through the lists in Barton 4, we are essentially reteaching.  So if the goal of the lesson was divide and slide (I make short mnemonics like this), then we go through the list with me asking him for every word: how many syllables, where do I split, what do I slide? Then I cover part of the word and we read the parts, then we read the whole.  EVERY WORD, every time.  We NEVER, EVER, EVER get a list solid without having read it AT LEAST 3 times that way beyond the lesson.  The homework pages are fine too.  I'm just saying with him a lot of what would be homework needs to be done by the tutor.  Some kids just need more.

 

At the private tutor place I was telling you about, the one where you can get a tutor who is an SLP with OG certification AND ASD certification (which is the only thing you should pay for at this point), they do ALL the instruction.  They don't even send home homework, because there's no point.  I suppose they can, but the point is the person instructing knows how to work them through the thought process.

 

Now a kind, gentle thought.  You were saying you're afraid you can't do this, but you really can.  Honest you can.  But what you need is some help.  I suggested you put your money in a mother's helper, because you can have a mother's helper for $10 an hour. If the tutoring you would do with him is worth $40-65 an hour, then hiring a mother's helper puts you out ahead.  Or enroll your littles in a public preschool for 2-3 hours a day at the same time as your other is in K5.  That way you have 2 hours a day to work with your oldest.  

 

I really think if YOU are the one teaching it and you then follow through every day, you're going to get progress.  If you had been able to sit in on those tutoring sessions, you could have carried it over at home.  With so many littles in tow, you couldn't do that.  Or maybe you did?

 

I'm sorry this process left you so financially on the brink.  I totally understand.  We've been doing speech therapy for my ds since he was newly 2.  We stopped in October to focus on the reading.  With what you're describing, I'm wondering if maybe a label got missed?  That would be a classic apraxia presentation, and it's very hard to treat.  Who diagnosed him as APD?  Was it an audiologist doing a full eval, or was it a screening tool with an SLP or psych?  I'm asking, because my ds fails part of the APD screening because of his dyslexia and whatnot, but he doesn't appear to have full APD when you actually take him to an audiologist (which I did, at a major university where they could do the full booth thing).  It's just something to read about, verbal apraxia.  Granted APD can cause speech problems, but I'm just saying you might not have the right label.  Apraxia often goes undiagnosed because the SLP isn't really trained to diagnose it.  

 

Because motor planning was part of my ds' issue, we spent a LOT of extra time using LIPS.  I do a lot with the motor planning inputs for my ds, slowing him down and helping him FEEL the sounds.  Again, I keep saying it, but an OG tutor who is also an SLP is what you're looking for.  Or if you can't afford it, adopt the mindset, kwim?  If my ds isn't saying the word accurately and feeling it accurately and articulating it accurately, why am I thinking he's going to slow down and notice all the letters in the word?  One of the psychs who eval'd my ds did the CELF5, which your ps can do.  It's a detailed language test.  He has off the charts vocabulary for his age, but the EF issues show up in meta-linguistics.  It means he doesn't notice the BITS of words.  So then you think ok, he's not noticing bits.  He's not noticing there was an S there or that explicit and implicit are different or that rat and rot are really different.  Not only do we have to look at whether he can discriminate (the dyslexia, the articulation), but does he even NOTICE them, kwim?  

 

So then we use that knowledge in our reading instruction.  We slow down and say ok, articulation really matters here, feeling the sounds matters, noticing the bits matters.  We have to bring in more tools for that, more care than just what is listed in Barton.  If your person was only trained in Barton, it wasn't enough.  But YOU can do it because you've read all the evals and are going to connect the dots.  If YOU are doing it with him every day, you will notice the patterns to the errors and try things and innovate.  INNOVATE.  Don't limit yourself!  Say what if...  and just try things.  What if we did Barton late at night, when he has had a full day of activity and feels more calm?  What if we did it after the Dianne Craft midline exercises.  What if we built the words with the LIPS faces?  What if we reviewed all the phonograms and paired them with faces and wrote them using multi-sensory?  What if we took omega 3 (I think Dianne Craft recommends this, we do it) every day to help some of that motor planning?  What if we practiced in ways that aren't in Barton like Quizlet or the Wii or word walls?  What if we needed a LOT MORE practice than the instructions in Barton seem to apply?  What if we broke up the lessons and let him move forward on the parts that ARE working and let come more slowly the parts that aren't?  What if there's a pattern to the parts that aren't working that would indicate a visual memory problem or something additional we could work on?  What if we realized, hmm, need a little visual memory and working memory work, and we just wove that in for 10-15 min a day as part of our warm-up for Barton?  

 

You can totally do this.  And I think getting you in the loop would help.  But I get it's hard, sigh.  Well keep thinking it through.  This is rocket science for *them* but it's not rocket science for *us*.  It's a logistical nightmare, but it's not rocket science.  You CAN do this.  

 

***Lightning flash!!  You might not know this yet, but Barton has an EXTENSIVE tutor resource section for each level and each lesson!!!  She has some quizlet lists already done.  I just do my own because I want them the way I want them.  But she has not only quizlet lists predone but TONS AND TONS AND TONS of extras.  She has so many extras surely it will be enough.  Like I'm all enthusiastic about the way I do things, but that's me.  She has so many extras there, and really just getting access to that might enable you, when pairing it with the actual Barton level, to get through this hump.  I try to work with my ds an hour a day, but really some people here work even 2+ hours a day.  It is NOT crazy.  And there are enough resources there to help you do that and never be bored.

 

How is his math going?

[PeterPan]

I'm neither Barton certified nor OG certified.  This stuff is NOT rocket science.  It's new to you, but it's really not.  You CAN learn it and do this.

 

Your Mama love and your willingness to piece together and make it happen is what's going to get you through.  Buy Barton and give yourself the chance to let that happen.  Susan can help you with placement.  Call her.  You can also email, but she'll also talk with you on the phone.

[PeterPan]

Queen, when you say it wasn't carrying over to life, was he reading the stories?  My ds has to practice reading the words, phrases, and sentences MANY times for the Barton lesson before he even has those solid.  And then he can't just magically somehow put it into action in the stories.  He could decode the whole thing and have no clue what he read!  So just doing a lesson with someone, practicing a couple times and then doing those worksheets wouldn't get him any carry over.  But I'm curious how he was actually doing on those stories.  If he was reading all 4 of them and doing well in the tutoring session but then having NO carryover in life, that's sorta odd, kwim?  I'm just wondering if she skipped them?  Or if she did them but wasn't really careful about comprehension?  Or if there's something else complicating this like vision?  

 

[Julie of KY]

I use Barton and am only  trained by what her training videos are that come with it.

 

I agree with picking up the phone and calling Susan Barton - she will talk to you and walk you through what you need to do for Barton.

[LaughingCat]

Haven't read all the posts -- but I seen posts in the past where people couldn't get through Barton -- I think that High Noon was the recommended choice?  Don't have a link but worth looking into.    

Also might be worth looking a LIPS due to the APD?  

[queen620]

I have definitely been wondering if we would have gotten more out of tutoring if I had sat in with him.   I just couldn't do that with the littles and other kids with me.   

WOW OhElizabeth--- you asked a slew of questions I'm not fully sure of!    As far as APD-- that came from the psychologist and then again from the SLP.  It sounds like that isn't' an official diagnosis maybe b/c it wasn't don't by an audiologist in the booth.   
I've never thought about motor planning issues b/c once he finished ST just before he turned 6 he was speaking quite clearly.  Our Barton tutor never mentioned needing LIPS training with him. (She did with my now 10 yr old.)   

You have really inspired me to give it some more thought.   I think I've made Barton out to be this really hard and difficult process. Maybe it just seemed that way b/c life was such a struggle at the time.  I always felt at a loss with doing his homework.  I knew the pages, but I wasn't actively in the loop.   

I think his breakdown came from feeling very accomplished with Barton, to then trying to read other stuff, b/c well that is life, but he couldn't!    I've talked to him a lot about it.  He says he felt I was doing better last year while still seeing his tutor.   :(  I do think he has lost ground, but not a lot.  I find he goes in spurts with his willingness to go with the flow and do the work.  His handwriting is better from public school..  I guess just knowing it has to get done.  I feel like PS has pushed him to try and read more--- I know that has pros & cons.   

As far as math-- that is a tricky question.  He is slow at math.  He is going into 8th and I'd say he might be 2 years behind.   His real issue is he hasn't memorized his math facts, so it is painfully slow.  He has to use his fingers or manipulatives or even just refer to his math fact sheets.   The dr said we should just hand over the calculator b/c the goal is learning the process not the getting stuck on the the math facts!    

I am contemplating putting my 4 yr old in preschool, but I think it might be too late for the next year.    I do like the idea though of being more flexible when we do his reading work.  My house is fairly quiet in the afternoon.    I could probably work an hour in there, if we were done with the rest.   

 

[imagine.more]

One of the big things with Barton and OG is that the student should never be expected to read outside of the Barton lessons until they are very far along in the program. DD is starting Level 4 and I still do not expect her to read anything herself. I read her math word problems aloud to her. She listens to audio books. She picks up picture books independently now but I do not ask her anything about them. History and Science are all auditory too. Similarly I do not expect her to spell any word that hasn't come up in Barton yet. So I spell out every word if necessary in her assignments. Realistically at Level 4 it's about 60% of the words that I need to spell out for her now. I don't even wait for her to ask, I just say "oh, you haven't learned this word type yet....it's S-P-E-C-I-A-L" and we move on. Maybe you could tell him that for 1 year he is not allowed to read anything but Barton stuff, haha!

 

So if your son was trying to read other books during Barton that might have caused unnecessary frustration, comparison, and encouraged guessing on his part which undermines what Barton is trying to do. So if you start up again I definitely suggest you expect zero reading outside of Barton until he's past Level 5 and even then keep it light. By the end of Level 5 you won't be able to stop him ;)

 

And Elizabeth brings up a good point about a) calling Susan Barton and b) accessing the tutor portion of the website. Susan is very available and will answer any questions you have, just call the number and she picks up herself, which surprised me, lol! And I use all parts of the tutor part of the website. We do the fluency drills and spelling tests and I read over all the FAQ's and print them out as soon as I get a new level. There is also a reading comprehension program someone made for Barton to extend the story lessons that I haven't utilized yet though I've been told I should ;) With all those components plus me stopping to do speech remediation as necessary it takes us at least 1 week to get through 1 lesson, doing it 4-5 times a week. And if you have the Barton book you can see that she includes extra words for practice if you need to go back and review and there are 4 stories at the end of every lesson to read. I use the stories and spelling test (on the website) to assess whether DD retained the lesson. If she gets less than 90% on it we go back and review for at least 1 day before she moves on. But that is rare, she usually gets 90-100% on her spelling tests which is really cool to see :) Oh, and Susan has new short books for each level that he can read 100% independently, starting at level 3 and up. I got one for DD and she enjoyed feeling like she could read a whole book by herself. So yeah, there are tons of resources there! There are even games that I haven't utilized myself but look cool. 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Wow, I had not kept up with where they say to unleash them to read. Bummer to know we need to get through B5, but I guess we'll be patient! Ds will read environmental print, but he has no stamina to read consistently through long things.  He can do something like a chapter of the Bible with me right there helping him, but it's because he WANTS to and I would never ask comprehension questions or expect him to comprehend.  I just think it's cool that he CAN connect with print a little.  And with the Olive Tree app, he can hit go to and go to verses, which is really snazzy.  I just like bringing those things into accessible for the amount he wants them.

 

We got the extra readers for level 3 and level 4, but we haven't been able to touch them.  If we end up getting really tired as we add back in ST this month (yay!!!), I thought we could use them and the worksheets to tread water.  Guess I should get my ducks in a row for that, hmm.  I got the comprehension packet for levels 3 and 4, and it is SUPERB.  I just decided, rightly or wrongly, to plow on with Barton 4 as long as we can doing the words, phrases, and sentences, then we'll go BACK and try to tackle these longer stories again.  Our experience was so crunchy, I think it's going to take some serious work, work I thought might discourage him or even be inappropriate given his very young age.  I decided because he's young for target age (only 6, with delays on top of that), that it was ok not to push that but to wait on those elements.  But indeed they are EXCELLENT when you're ready to tackle the stories.

 

My ds has some some things late that I thought should be easy, given his otherwise bright IQ.  Like he has only just recently been able to self-advocate and do for himself some simple things like turn on the vcr or the wii (or ask to go to the bathroom or...)  These are things dd did multiple years earlier, so it has been really odd and of course they make sense with the diagnoses.  So anyways, that's why I decided to delay on the stories, because he was having such a hard time, I felt like maintaining the positive energy and going back a bit later, when they might seem a bit easier, was just as good.  But I could be all wet.   :)

 

Manda, if I ever keel over, I want you to come teach my ds.  You sound like you're doing a fabulous job.   :)

 

 

[queen620]

I wasn't forcing him to read outside of tutoring and his controlled homework. We have always used Sonlight for most subjects and I read it all! His math was TEachibg textbooks- so limited reading there. We were my doing any sort of LA, just Barton. I think the issue just came from being an 11, 12, 13 yr old boy who is surrounded by print! He was feeling somewhat confident and tried carrying it over.

Like I said somewhere above ps has pushed him in many ways. One thing has been good is seeing home advocate for himself be reminding/ expecting teachers to follow his IEP. He also has learned to use technology somewhat to his advantage.

 

I am not sold on Barton, but all of you ladies have put a new fresh light on it. I was so burnt out from it and so was my son, I really wasn't even entertaining it.

 

Still need to find an audio science program for him to do and feel he is more independent. Thanks for the input and encouragement.

[imagine.more]

Oh no I didn't want to suggest you were forcing him to read, I was thinking more about school and how there's a lot of pressure and expectation to try to read there. I know we struggled with that with DD when she went for a semester during Barton. It's great your son is motivated by environmental print, my dd had given up on even noticing it until very recently!