alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 "One of the greatest things about SB277 passing is that all the "concerned parents," who have an honorary doctorate from Google's college of medicine, will now be homeschooling their children and creating smaller classes for my children to succeed! Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. It's a win win!" Â This is a Facebook post written by my next door neighbor a few days ago in reference to the California vaccine bill (SB277) that was just signed into law, the most stringent in the United States. It dictates that no child may attend any school, daycare, preschool, or aftercare program unless they have received each and every required immunization. Â My neighbor is a friend, or at least we thought so. We have been friends with he and his wife for the last 7 years. Our kids play together and we babysit them. My kids love their whole family. This post was such a slap in the face, not because of his stance on SB277, but because of his insults to homeschoolers, and therefore my kids. He knows how bright and articulate they are, how kind to their children, everything. Yet he posted this on Facebook knowing my husband and I would see it, and perpetuating this to tons of people. A number of people I know personally liked his post. Â My kids are young enough that they are not on Facebook and we obviously didn't tell them he had written this. They would be devastated, and knowing that is kind of what hurts me the most about this. Where we live, homeschooling is an extremely uncommon choice and we know that, but to see that your friends think this about your children - that your children will grow up to be inferior and unsuccessful, particularly when they constantly tell you how well-mannered your children are, how articulate, etc. - and that they are willing to publicly insult us this way . . . Â I guess I just wanted to share with people who would understand. It's upsetting, especially on a day when we celebrate freedom. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I think a lot of people post things about "them" (category of people like homeschoolers) while making exceptions in their mind for the real people they know who homeschool. Â I would quietly keep doing what you do and prove them wrong. Â 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Is it possible to talk privately with them? I know a lot of people, like Jean said, that think in them vs us categories and anyone known in real life that doesn't fit their mental image must be an exception. They don't even necessarily connect what they are posting/saying with people in real life. Some people with that mindset can change their view. Some can't. It sounds like you know each other fairly well. Maybe you can just gently ask to talk to them. Otherwise this may fester between you for years. Â Hugs. I'm sorry. I get it. We have been in a similar situation. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 "Wow. I didn't realize you thought that way about my kids and our choice to homeschool." 39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The reason I suggested a private talk first instead of a public response was to hopefully open up a real dialog instead of putting him om the defensive. I would hope they would then be more open to removing or modifying their post. Â If not I think I would post a public question as Dialectica suggested. Â Hugs and best wishes. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Honestly, I have no problems with people disagreeing with our life choices. Â However, there is a big difference between having a different POV and belittling and besmirching their choices. Â I would probably respond politely and pointedly. Â Something along the lines of, "Thanks for letting us know your real views. Â We appreciate your openness and honesty." Â Â Â It kicks the ball into their court and they have to decide how to respond. Â Their response will reveal their character (beyond what they already have.) 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'd probably say something because the generalizations would irritate me even though I agree with the basic idea. Â One-issue homeschoolers who are homeschooling for entirely non-academic reasons do concern me and I think that's a worthwhile discussion to have. Homeschooling isn't just about being antivax or avoiding teh gays, it's also choosing take on the responsibility to educate your children yourself. But your friend's statement is so negative and one-sided that it isn't helpful at all and I think it's worth saying something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minerva Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Ouch!  I am so sorry you had to read that. It would be very upsetting. I have pretty thick skin, but I also have a hard time keeping my mouth shut (for better or worse). I think I would send them a message and let them know that you weren't sure if their post was directed at you but it was hurtful.  Last year a friend of my daughter told my kids that her parents thought that homeschooling is stupid and that kids who are homeschooled are essentially doomed. My dd was very upset. I spoke to the mom and said that she was absolutely entitled to opinions about homeschooling, my parenting, my children's quirkiness (both of my kids have LD's), but that I would hope she would refrain from doing it in front of her kids or publicly.  The ironic thing is that her kids spent practically their entire summer vacation at my house doing school with us. They read great books. Made magnificent artwork. Did spectacular science. Played tons of math and reading games. They loved it, and the parents gave them free reign to pass the day at my house. Their house is collaged from stem to stern with last summer's learning.  The mom was very apologetic (and obviously embarrassed) and has made amends in many different ways. In these instances the only way I can see to fix it is through honest communication. Either that or you have to just end your relationship, otherwise it will always be hanging over your friendship. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakelly Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's a horrible post, but I wouldn't dignify it with a response. If you feel the need to talk to them, you should do it in person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Exactly, 8. None of our friends chose homeschooling; obviously, they have different views. It is a very different thing to belittle and insult.  I did respond to his post. I took a couple of days to calm down first. I wanted to respond to it in that forum, in addition to privately, because what he said went out to so many others. I felt it was right to offer a rebuttal for them all to read as well.  The problem with what he did is that rather than discussing the merits of SB277 using reasoned arguments, he made a straw man of homeschooling and made the argument that the type of people who don't support SB277  are the type of people who homeschool, and the type of people who homeschool are parental failures who raise losers.  In my rebuttal, I began by pointing out that my children are well educated, well socialized, and well vaccinated, and that he was in a position to know that better than most. But then I moved on and took it back to what his post was supposed to be about, which is whether or not SB277 is right. I devoted the rest of my post to my thoughts on that issue using actual reasoned arguments and without insulting anyone. You could say that I schooled him :lol: 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I typically answer offensive posts with a question mark and that's it, IF I reply to it at all.  However, I wouldn't be friends with someone who felt that way and felt that they were qualified to voice such ridiculous presumptions and generalizations.  So, I don't really know what I would do, I guess. I've made it very clear over the years that (as far as my friends and family are concerned) if one doesn't agree with us homeschooling, they keep it to themselves. I'm simply not interested in my children being around people who say such things (things that directly apply to MY children). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minerva Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Exactly, 8. None of our friends chose homeschooling; obviously, they have different views. It is a very different thing to belittle and insult.  I did respond to his post. I took a couple of days to calm down first. I wanted to respond to it in that forum, in addition to privately, because what he said went out to so many others. I felt it was right to offer a rebuttal for them all to read as well.  The problem with what he did is that rather than discussing the merits of SB277 using reasoned arguments, he made a straw man of homeschooling and made the argument that the type of people who don't support SB277  are the type of people who homeschool, and the type of people who homeschool are parental failures who raise losers.  In my rebuttal, I began by pointing out that my children are well educated, well socialized, and well vaccinated, and that he was in a position to know that better than most. But then I moved on and took it back to what his post was supposed to be about, which is whether or not SB277 is right. I devoted the rest of my post to my thoughts on that issue using actual reasoned arguments and without insulting anyone. You could say that I schooled him :lol:  I think this would have been a great response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm afraid I won't have a choice about whether to talk to them about it. You see, it all gets terribly more complicated - his wife is a teacher in a public school in another district. Two years ago, she ran for school board in our district as she wanted to better the local school system in time for her daughter who was 2 or 3 at the time. She has been on the school board since. She and I are also pretty good friends. She has always been very respectful of me in terms of homeschooling. Â I am confident that she either was or will be horrified by his post and will want to talk about it. Which is not to say that she doesn't secretly agree - she probably does. But I know she will think it very poor that he posted it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Not the most stringent...regular physicians can issue medical exemptions. Here in MS, the pedi has to request one and records have to be sent to the state health department. They decide if an exemption is necessary. I had one for my oldest until she was 6 or 7 due to a complex set of medical issues no one wanted to complicate with vaccinations until we understood what was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's a tough one.  I'd probably turn off seeing her posts so you don't get upset. I have strong views. I sometimes post them on Facebook knowing there may be a few in my friend's list who would not agree with me. I don't mean them disrespect. I'm not trying to be hurtful. And even if I don't agree with them, I am their friend because I feel they are good people and doing what they think is best for them.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's a tough one.  I'd probably turn off seeing her posts so you don't get upset. I have strong views. I sometimes post them on Facebook knowing there may be a few in my friend's list who would not agree with me. I don't mean them disrespect. I'm not trying to be hurtful. And even if I don't agree with them, I am their friend because I feel they are good people and doing what they think is best for them.  Strong views are ok. We all have them. To me, the issue isn't making an argument for a controversial issue you believe in. It's making a slanderous argument against people who don't believe the same. And, in this case, making a slanderous argument against a group that wasn't even part of the issue. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Strong views are ok. We all have them. To me, the issue isn't making an argument for a controversial issue you believe in. It's making a slanderous argument against people who don't believe the same. And, in this case, making a slanderous argument against a group that wasn't even part of the issue.  Oh I agree. This may in fact be a deal breaker for me. Although I'm not sure. I agree with vaccinating. So that part would not upset me. She could have been mostly thinking of that part.  There are people in my life who don't think highly of homeschooling. They would speak against it. They are still respectful and complimentary towards what I'm doing. I don't like that they are so negative about it, but they at least don't insult me specifically. I guess I see it as I'm not all homeschoolers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I might reply with a subtle comment such as, "Ouch". Enough to say, "Um hello I'm over here and I'm reading this and you know how it would make me feel."   8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Yesterday, my father asked my children, "Is your mother finally going to send you to a real school this year?" He asks this every year. We ignore him completely, as if we can't hear the question. I really haven't come up with anything more effective than that. Â FWIW, my husband occasionally posts stuff on FB that I disagree with and am sometimes mortified by. Oh well. His Facebook, his opinion. I don't do Facebook. :tongue_smilie: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minerva Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I have lots of friends on FB with strong views, many of which I don't agree with, but the tone of that post was belittling. I am a firm believer in vaccinations and don't mind engaging in intelligent conversations about the subject, but I think the tone of the email is that all parents who homeschool their kids have a "doctorate of medicine from Google's college of medicine" is  disrespectful and obviously wrong since the OP clearly vaccinates her kids. Not to mention this part of the post, "Plus without any schooling or socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. Win win." Bluck. Rude. It's a good thing her kids aren't getting their socialization at home. Not nice. Not to mention (while I'm ranting) who educates their kids to be "above" other people's kids.   Edited to add important comma. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I might proudly display my degree from the Google College of all Knowledge. Â :laugh: Â Â 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 "Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. Does he know that he is actually saying that his kids are the ones who are without any true schooling and socialization? How ironic is that? 42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Does he know that he is actually saying that his kids are the ones who are without any true schooling and socialization? How ironic is that? Â Beautiful! Â :hurray: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Following up on EKS's response, posting the diagrammed sentence (screenshot from 1aiway) would be funny! Â http://1aiway.com/ 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 "One of the greatest things about SB277 passing is that all the "concerned parents," who have an honorary doctorate from Google's college of medicine, will now be homeschooling their children and creating smaller classes for my children to succeed! Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. It's a win win!"  This is a Facebook post written by my next door neighbor a few days ago in reference to the California vaccine bill (SB277) that was just signed into law, the most stringent in the United States. It dictates that no child may attend any school, daycare, preschool, or aftercare program unless they have received each and every required immunization.  My neighbor is a friend, or at least we thought so. We have been friends with he and his wife for the last 7 years. Our kids play together and we babysit them. My kids love their whole family. This post was such a slap in the face, not because of his stance on SB277, but because of his insults to homeschoolers, and therefore my kids. He knows how bright and articulate they are, how kind to their children, everything. Yet he posted this on Facebook knowing my husband and I would see it, and perpetuating this to tons of people. A number of people I know personally liked his post.  My kids are young enough that they are not on Facebook and we obviously didn't tell them he had written this. They would be devastated, and knowing that is kind of what hurts me the most about this. Where we live, homeschooling is an extremely uncommon choice and we know that, but to see that your friends think this about your children - that your children will grow up to be inferior and unsuccessful, particularly when they constantly tell you how well-mannered your children are, how articulate, etc. - and that they are willing to publicly insult us this way . . .  I guess I just wanted to share with people who would understand. It's upsetting, especially on a day when we celebrate freedom. What lowbrow mockery illustrating a lack of understanding about medical rights and education. Double whammy there.  Not a friend/neighbor I would want to have, though I know you have no choice if this is a neighbor.   And wow...he actually posted this with you on his feed knowing darn good and well you are a homeschooler. How passive aggressive of him. There are actually people with doctorates who see problems with how this vaccination thing is handled in this country and also understand the parental rights issue.  I usually ignore stupidity, and never, ever get into political issues on Facebook at any time. I don't even like posts that are accurate. What a putz.  Living well is the best revenge, as they say. Just raise your successful, articulate, intelligent children and the proof will be in the pudding. It would be hard to interact normally after such a slam though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Does he know that he is actually saying that his kids are the ones who are without any true schooling and socialization? How ironic is that? Yes, that's hilarious and I noted it too, but alas, that wasn't his intention. Â Funny though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Exactly, 8. None of our friends chose homeschooling; obviously, they have different views. It is a very different thing to belittle and insult.  I did respond to his post. I took a couple of days to calm down first. I wanted to respond to it in that forum, in addition to privately, because what he said went out to so many others. I felt it was right to offer a rebuttal for them all to read as well.  The problem with what he did is that rather than discussing the merits of SB277 using reasoned arguments, he made a straw man of homeschooling and made the argument that the type of people who don't support SB277  are the type of people who homeschool, and the type of people who homeschool are parental failures who raise losers.  In my rebuttal, I began by pointing out that my children are well educated, well socialized, and well vaccinated, and that he was in a position to know that better than most. But then I moved on and took it back to what his post was supposed to be about, which is whether or not SB277 is right. I devoted the rest of my post to my thoughts on that issue using actual reasoned arguments and without insulting anyone. You could say that I schooled him :lol: What was the response?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I would probably not push or debate it. I would probably type something like. "Interesting" and leave it at that. He knows you homeschool. There is no hook to start a debate but he knows it's from a homeschooler and it may make him think. You never know he may actually feel ashamed but it doesn't back him in a corner so that he starts getting defensive and creates an argument. Â Â I once typed "Do you really believe that?" on a facebook page and it disappeared quick. There are circumstances where the answer would be a resounding yes, but I think in that case the person wasn't thinking things through and just needed a nudge to do so. Â I wouldn't use that line in this case since he may actually believe that but he needs to be reminded that there are real people he is talking about and the Interesting comment would do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I have lots of friends on FB with strong views, many of which I don't agree with, but the tone of that post was belittling. I am a firm believer in vaccinations and don't mind engaging in intelligent conversations about the subject, but I think the tone of the email is that all parents who homeschool their kids have a "doctorate of medicine from Google's college of medicine" is  disrespectful and obviously wrong since the OP clearly vaccinates her kids. Not to mention this part of the post, "Plus without any schooling or socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. Win win." Bluck. Rude. It's a good thing her kids aren't getting their socialization at home. Not nice. Not to mention (while I'm ranting) who educates their kids to be "above" other people's kids.   Edited to add important comma. This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I would probably not push or debate it. I would probably type something like. "Interesting" and leave it at that. He knows you homeschool. There is no hook to start a debate but he knows it's from a homeschooler and it may make him think. You never know he may actually feel ashamed but it doesn't back him in a corner so that he starts getting defensive and creates an argument.   I once typed "Do you really believe that?" on a facebook page and it disappeared quick. There are circumstances where the answer would be a resounding yes, but I think in that case the person wasn't thinking things through and just needed a nudge to do so.  I wouldn't use that line in this case since he may actually believe that but he needs to be reminded that there are real people he is talking about and the Interesting comment would do just that. I'd be tempted to post my kids yearly testing scores, but would ultimately decline to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 What was the response? Â Â No response so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm in the fortunate position to be able to say:  Hmm, my oldest got into college with merit aid and graduated in 2014 with a job using his major immediately following graduation. He's still happily working at that job.  My middle has a 3.96 currently at his Top 30 Research U and is now working for the summer at Stanford in a paid internship where they accepted 13 out of 240 applicants. He's been a TA in 3 classes and gotten terrific reviews from his students. He's been an RA in freshmen halls for the past year and will be again next year.  I'm thinking he might be doing ok in spite of our homeschooling...  My youngest (chose to go to ps for his high school years) is heading into sophomore year at college having struggled a bit both academically and socially his first year/semester respectively.  It gives me pause as to whether we should have let him make his choice as he did, but what's done is done. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicai Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm in the fortunate position to be able to say:  Hmm, my oldest got into college with merit aid and graduated in 2014 with a job using his major immediately following graduation. He's still happily working at that job.  My middle has a 3.96 currently at his Top 30 Research U and is now working for the summer at Stanford in a paid internship where they accepted 13 out of 240 applicants. He's been a TA in 3 classes and gotten terrific reviews from his students. He's been an RA in freshmen halls for the past year and will be again next year.  I'm thinking he might be doing ok in spite of our homeschooling...  My youngest (chose to go to ps for his high school years) is heading into sophomore year at college having struggled a bit both academically and socially his first year/semester respectively.  It gives me pause as to whether we should have let him make his choice as he did, but what's done is done. I love hearing these stories! So encouraging! Thanks for sharing :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSmomof2 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Following up on EKS's response, posting the diagrammed sentence (screenshot from 1aiway) would be funny! Â http://1aiway.com/ Â This would be so perfect! Just the diagrammed sentence.....say nothing else. Although, it's very possible he and those 'liking' his post won't get it, since they don't seem to be too bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm in the fortunate position to be able to say:  Hmm, my oldest got into college with merit aid and graduated in 2014 with a job using his major immediately following graduation. He's still happily working at that job.  My middle has a 3.96 currently at his Top 30 Research U and is now working for the summer at Stanford in a paid internship where they accepted 13 out of 240 applicants. He's been a TA in 3 classes and gotten terrific reviews from his students. He's been an RA in freshmen halls for the past year and will be again next year.  I'm thinking he might be doing ok in spite of our homeschooling...  My youngest (chose to go to ps for his high school years) is heading into sophomore year at college having struggled a bit both academically and socially his first year/semester respectively.  It gives me pause as to whether we should have let him make his choice as he did, but what's done is done. Yes, this! And how interesting.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 "One of the greatest things about SB277 passing is that all the "concerned parents," who have an honorary doctorate from Google's college of medicine, will now be homeschooling their children and creating smaller classes for my children to succeed! Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. It's a win win!" Â This is a Facebook post written by my next door neighbor a few days ago in reference to the California vaccine bill (SB277) that was just signed into law, the most stringent in the United States. It dictates that no child may attend any school, daycare, preschool, or aftercare program unless they have received each and every required immunization. Â My neighbor is a friend, or at least we thought so. We have been friends with he and his wife for the last 7 years. Our kids play together and we babysit them. My kids love their whole family. This post was such a slap in the face, not because of his stance on SB277, but because of his insults to homeschoolers, and therefore my kids. He knows how bright and articulate they are, how kind to their children, everything. Yet he posted this on Facebook knowing my husband and I would see it, and perpetuating this to tons of people. A number of people I know personally liked his post. Â I'm glad you replied. Â This may indeed be one of those "beginning of the end" moments, but I don't let people put me down with my permission. Â I personally wouldn't let it go. Â We had a situation like this some years back in our neighborhood, and we broke off the relationships. Through a series of events we found out what they really thought of us (not much), and that was that. Â The funny thing is that my oldest graduated from homeschooling this year with far more honors and opportunities than any of the kids of the families that put us down for being backward and silly. Â But someone I barely know who probably doesn't know that we're homeschooling? I'd probably let it drop unless they were engaging me with the drivel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Lava Mama Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I might proudly display my degree from the Google College of all Knowledge.  :laugh:  SparklyUnicorn: My 5yo dd loves the dancing bacon in your signature. She comments on it every time she is within eye-shot of my computer. :) Hot Lava Mama 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I love hearing these stories! So encouraging! Thanks for sharing :)Hang out on the high school and college forums here on the WTM. Encouraging stories abound. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I love hearing these stories! So encouraging! Thanks for sharing :)   Yes, this! And how interesting.     Hang out on the high school and college forums here on the WTM. Encouraging stories abound.  :iagree: and couldn't have said it better.  In my circle IRL I can talk about my kids and allude to others.  In our Hive family there are many showing that my kids aren't necessarily exceptions.  I absolutely won't say homeschooling is always better in every situation, but I can say sweeping judgments like in the OP are not accurate.  And I have absolute proof.  (As do many of us.. ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm glad you replied.  This may indeed be one of those "beginning of the end" moments, but I don't let people put me down with my permission.  I personally wouldn't let it go.  We had a situation like this some years back in our neighborhood, and we broke off the relationships. Through a series of events we found out what they really thought of us (not much), and that was that.  The funny thing is that my oldest graduated from homeschooling this year with far more honors and opportunities than any of the kids of the families that put us down for being backward and silly.  But someone I barely know who probably doesn't know that we're homeschooling? I'd probably let it drop unless they were engaging me with the drivel. I used to be like you when I was younger.  Now I remember my objective. My objective is to maintain peace in the neighborhood and not make enemies who can make my life hell.  I'd keep my mouth shut now-at least until I was moving. Now on a certain day when I'd just had enough, I might be tempted to post an article about how homeschoolers rank against public/private schoolers on every measure - without comment, of course.  But my kids and their accomplishments would also demonstrate the inaccuracy of their views too, as yours have done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that I'm sorry that your friend said that. I guess now you know she they really thinks.  I hope you can get this resolved some how. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 nm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I do think that ps teachers see the other side of homeschooling--the side where it didn't work for whatever reason. Also, from what I can tell, the "studies" that claim that homeschoolers have better achievement scores compared to traditional schoolers are flawed at best. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 When my district rezone and people pulled their kids out, the class size actually went up and the number of teachers went down. The district was trying to get as close to 30 a class as possible (including having mixed grades classes) to save on number of teachers. Â So smaller class size is not a confirmed outcome of people pulling kids out of public school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Didn't read the other posts, I will later. Sorry if this is a repeat.  Before you go getting upset, let me ask you some questions: 1. Do you think people who homeschool because of vaccines will the best homeschoolers you've met? 2. Of the particularly bad homeschoolers out there (who will invariably get press when they've done a terrible job) how many are homeschooling because rigorous academics and intentional, positive socialization are their top priorities?3. Of the people who are homeschooling, not because they're strong advocates of tutorial education, but because they don't want the government involved in their lives like a. having legal documents b. making decisions about what medical status large groups of children in close quarters 6+ hours a day 9 months a year should meet to avoid outbreaks, etc. c. setting mandatory evaluations for academic progress (standardized testing) in taxpayer funded schools, how many of them stand out socially an academically as homeschoolers?  I think it's possible that the person who posted that has made a guess about what kind of subset of homeschoolers the person who opts out of mandatory vaccinations might be. I have to say, while I respect the right of parents to homeschool for whatever reason they like, I'm wary of people who are here because of something entirely unrelated to educational philosophy. That's not making a categorical statement about everyone who isn't a philosophical homeschooler and at the same time another about those who are philosophical homeschoolers, I'm saying the subset who would homeschool because of the vaccine law might be more prone to lower academic and social standards. It's a theory and my 15 years of homeschooling experience is entirely anecdotal, but I see it as a real possibility. Maybe your neighbor does too. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 At least you know a little more about this man. Maybe you will limit your own dc's interaction with him and his dc, knowing that he can be two-faced, and rather stupid. Maybe he just cut and pasted someone else's thoughts, and he doesn't really know what he means? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaE Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 This is so tough. Â As a high school teacher, I saw some homeschoolers when they entered high school. Â Completely unprepared as to the rigor. Â Prior learning was also an issue. Â However, after reading WTM, and comparing that curriculum design to state standards, I cant possbily imagine anyone going through WTM not prepared for high school. Â The rigor that this program sets forth is completely higher than my states standards. Â Having a child sit and work on their own, that in and of itself is an amazing study skill compared to my high schoolers. Â My high schoolers couldn't read, couldnt write, had the hardest time comprehending word problems, didnt understand place value (students thought 0.4 was different that 0.40 - and different in magnitude not significant figures). Â Could not budget their time effectively. Â Constantly complained if there was an iota of homework assigned. Â Were complete disenchanted with learning (especially science). Â In fact it was teaching over the past two years at the high school that thoroughly convinced me to homeschool my children. Â Â 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Yesterday, my father asked my children, "Is your mother finally going to send you to a real school this year?" He asks this every year. We ignore him completely, as if we can't hear the question. I really haven't come up with anything more effective than that.  FWIW, my husband occasionally posts stuff on FB that I disagree with and am sometimes mortified by. Oh well. His Facebook, his opinion. I don't do Facebook. :tongue_smilie:  This.  Except I will let my husband know privately (& loudly) when he oversteps. He would never openly insult people, but he has posted opinions on controversial topics before. I once had to explain to him that childbirth is controversial after he posted some pro-homebirth comments. I don't think he realized how touchy a subject it is or really thought through the fact that his comments would be seen by a friend of mine who is a L&D nurse at our local hospital.  Just to point out that I wouldn't assume that your friend's husband speaks for her or that they are privately trashing homeschoolers. It's possible that this is how they really feel about homeschoolers, but it's also possible that they are just generally pro-public school. I wouldn't take it personally without evidence that it was personal; I doubt he was thinking about you at all when he posted. However, I would proceed cautiously with the overall relationship, because I would worry about what they might say to my kids about homeschooling when I'm not around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 This is so tough. Â As a high school teacher, I saw some homeschoolers when they entered high school. Â Completely unprepared as to the rigor. Â Prior learning was also an issue. Â However, after reading WTM, and comparing that curriculum design to state standards, I cant possbily imagine anyone going through WTM not prepared for high school. Â The rigor that this program sets forth is completely higher than my states standards. Â Having a child sit and work on their own, that in and of itself is an amazing study skill compared to my high schoolers. Â My high schoolers couldn't read, couldnt write, had the hardest time comprehending word problems, didnt understand place value (students thought 0.4 was different that 0.40 - and different in magnitude not significant figures). Â Could not budget their time effectively. Â Constantly complained if there was an iota of homework assigned. Â Were complete disenchanted with learning (especially science). Â In fact it was teaching over the past two years at the high school that thoroughly convinced me to homeschool my children. Â I've seen both really good homeschoolers enter high school and those who likely didn't school beyond perhaps some workbooks. Â Homeschoolers, like ps kids, cross the whole bell curve. Â But the ps where I work? Â The standards were too low for mine. Â Even if my kids had gone there and gotten straight As, they wouldn't have the foundation I wanted or felt they needed to have to go to college. Â And yes, the vast majority are learning as a task - something for the test - then delete or write over those neurons. Â I wanted more. Â Youngest - who went to ps for high school - started off as a "genius" with straight As. Â By senior year he had slacked off to meet the norm. Â He never lost his love of learning at least, but he also learned he didn't have to put forth much effort. Â :glare: Â That did NOT help him when he entered college. Â "Deadlines? Â You mean they're real?" Â Some complain about this with hs kids, but... that will depend upon the hs I suppose. Â All of this also depends upon the ps. Â I went to a very good one myself. Â They differ. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaE Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Probably getting a bit off topic but I wanted to comment on deadlines. I was told I had to accept things late due to legal repercussions. Parents at my school would lawyer up when it came to their kids grade. Also I had to let students retake tests semesters after the class ended. i would completely laugh at the ridiculousness of this. How are we preparing our kids for college and career by not honoring deadlines as well as retaking tests at will whenever. I have taught at the college level, these kids are in for a rude awakening in a few years. Â What my high schoolers did learn is they can just run to the principal to get their grade changed. In my first year of teaching, a student who slacked all year was getting an F in chemistry. He asked what he could do to pass the class. I told him that he could do the project I assigned in third quarter. He opted not to do it ( the project might have taken an hour tops). I failed him at 59.6 %. Kid went to the principal and she changed his grade to passing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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