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My best friends' kid spat in my face!


Meadowlark
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My dear friend traveled 3.5 hours to see us and the fireworks. While she was in the bathroom, I noticed her 7 yr. old son spitting at my 2 yr. old. As in, right in her face. I went over and whisked her away, then said "Johnny, we do not spit at people". Then, he looked right at me and...spit. Yep, I was in disbelief. The dad (who I don't know well) was sitting nearby in his own little world and apparently didn't see a thing.

 

What would you have done? I do not know her kids well as our friendship has evolved over the phone mostly due to her moving around.

 

I'm just letting it go because they live far away and I see it creating a problem if I said something.

 

I know I need to get over it, but I'm honestly still thinking about this kid! What a world we live in when a 7 yr. old spits in an adults face!

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If my child did that to someone I would want to know about it.

 

Is the child neurotypical?

Well, that's the thing and maybe you all can help me with that. I don't know. I've only been around him 3-4 times in the past few years, but my husband and I have definitely noticed that something is not right. Last night, I also saw him licking his sister, chanting, and just otherwise odd behaviors. But, his other 3 siblings were rude too. The 5 yr. old stuck his tongue out at me after I offered him a snack, and he called his mom names, to which she laughed.

 

The thing is-we are SO close and open and honest about our kids (or so I thought). If someone was going on, I really think she would share with me. I know she held him back a year but said it was because of sports or something...I think there's more going on than I know. My cousin was with us too, and she is a special needs preschool teacher. I asked her to watch him and she said she doesn't suspect autism or anything-just rotten behavior. My friend is NOT a pushover so this all is quite baffling to me.

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If all of her kids are pretty rude, I would just chalk it up to that (unfortunately).

Please do tell her. I would want to know if my child did something like that. Now, if she's laughing when they call her names, it could just be that she honestly isn't bothered by the behavior, and since rudeness is certainly subjective (although spitting on someone is pretty universally rude), she may just need a reality check that her children's behavior is, indeed, offending others, even if it doesn't offend her. 

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Well, that's the thing and maybe you all can help me with that. I don't know. I've only been around him 3-4 times in the past few years, but my husband and I have definitely noticed that something is not right. Last night, I also saw him licking his sister, chanting, and just otherwise odd behaviors. But, his other 3 siblings were rude too. The 5 yr. old stuck his tongue out at me after I offered him a snack, and he called his mom names, to which she laughed.

 

The thing is-we are SO close and open and honest about our kids (or so I thought). If someone was going on, I really think she would share with me. I know she held him back a year but said it was because of sports or something...I think there's more going on than I know. My cousin was with us too, and she is a special needs preschool teacher. I asked her to watch him and she said she doesn't suspect autism or anything-just rotten behavior. My friend is NOT a pushover so this all is quite baffling to me.

 

Sometimes parents don't notice or they notice and they are so used to it they don't think about it in the same terms as when others see it.  People are also not always so forthcoming about stuff that casts them in a negative light.

 

She may have just laughed because she didn't want to make a scene under the circumstances.  I have let stuff go in the interest of keeping the peace.  It is not comfortable to start yelling at your kid in front of people or listening to that.

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Oh I'd want to know. That would garner severe penalties in this house if a kid who wasn't an infant spit on an adult. Like, there goes the rest of your visit, you're sitting on the stairs until we leave kind of penalties.

 

Kids just doing weird things with each other, tough to say. My older kids have done some very foolish things because they got more and more riled up and silly and all their sense flew out the window. But that's with each other, not with an adult.

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ETA: My neurotypical 6 year old recently became enamored with licking people. I think his older sister put him up to it. I also vaguely recall my mother saying that me, or one of my sisters, when through a "spitting" phase as an older child. 

I would be upset if my kid did something like that... but I guess (recently) my kids have been doing the sorts of things that I never thought I'd have to tell them NOT to do, so my opinion would be a bit jaded :D

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Oh I'd want to know. That would garner severe penalties in this house if a kid who wasn't an infant spit on an adult. Like, there goes the rest of your visit, you're sitting on the stairs until we leave kind of penalties.

 

Kids just doing weird things with each other, tough to say. My older kids have done some very foolish things because they got more and more riled up and silly and all their sense flew out the window. But that's with each other, not with an adult.

 

And see a big screamy blowout would make me more uncomfortable than the spitting in the first place.  Maybe your kid will sit on the stair quietly if you tell him to.  Mine would not have at that age.  He was a challenging kid so I proceeded carefully.  Now at 10 he is fine.  I never have any issues with him whatsoever. 

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3.5 hours away, rarely visit in person, clearly accepts behavior from her kids that is beyond acceptable in your house (or mine) - I would let it go. I don't see a benefit in telling. It happened ages ago in 7yo perceived time and she will just be modified but unable to do anything effective with the information.

 

Next time, maybe look incredulously to the husband and day "Jonny just spit in my face!??"

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I'd wonder if perhaps the 2 year old had started it.  Maybe not.  But I can't fathom there being no reason. 

Who cares who started it?  The problem wasn't the spit fight between the kids per se, though I would have stepped in just as the OP did.  The problem was that he was told not to spit and did it very deliberately.  

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Well, that's the thing and maybe you all can help me with that. I don't know. I've only been around him 3-4 times in the past few years, but my husband and I have definitely noticed that something is not right. Last night, I also saw him licking his sister, chanting, and just otherwise odd behaviors. But, his other 3 siblings were rude too. The 5 yr. old stuck his tongue out at me after I offered him a snack, and he called his mom names, to which she laughed.

 

The thing is-we are SO close and open and honest about our kids (or so I thought). If someone was going on, I really think she would share with me. I know she held him back a year but said it was because of sports or something...I think there's more going on than I know. My cousin was with us too, and she is a special needs preschool teacher. I asked her to watch him and she said she doesn't suspect autism or anything-just rotten behavior. My friend is NOT a pushover so this all is quite baffling to me.

 

I have a non-nuerotypical kid who is frequently socially inappropriate.  (he thinks he's playing - no one else does)

it becomes even MORE important for the parents to know so the child can be corrected.  these kids are capable of learning appropriate social skills  - it's just a lot more work and baby steps to teach them.

 

from what you are describing - I think the parents either don't care or are lacking in basic social skills themselves.  they need to know the behavior is NOT okay to other people and they *can* do something to stop it.  it would be doing these children a favor to let them know it's not okay, and the parents need to start being parents.

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Sometimes parents don't notice or they notice and they are so used to it they don't think about it in the same terms as when others see it.  People are also not always so forthcoming about stuff that casts them in a negative light.

 

She may have just laughed because she didn't want to make a scene under the circumstances.  I have let stuff go in the interest of keeping the peace.  It is not comfortable to start yelling at your kid in front of people or listening to that.

 

 

I recall my brother laughing at my then two-year old niece being a snot.  I tried to tell him it won't be funny when she's 10. . . . .

 

I have seen an increase in parents who think little kids being brats is "cute" . ...  and the kid thinks it's normal and don't change because they've never been taught otherwise.

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Well, I wouldn't have let Dad off the hook, personally. I would have said something along the lines of "Kid's Dad, can you intervene here? Kid is spitting on my two year old and just spit on me when I picked her up." Then he would have gotten the "I Can't Believe This" stare from me until he responded.

 

Why wait until your friend came back? The adults present can handle it. And if they don't then that tells you something you probably needed to know anyway.

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I don't think I would do anything besides let your friend know of the behavior.  I probably wouldn't invite them back if bad behavior turns out to be habitual.  I would expect a NT child and non-NT to be taught not to spit and to act civilly.  Based on your description of the siblings and mom's reaction, I'd say they were run-of-the-mill rude.

Well, that's the thing and maybe you all can help me with that. I don't know. I've only been around him 3-4 times in the past few years, but my husband and I have definitely noticed that something is not right. Last night, I also saw him licking his sister, chanting, and just otherwise odd behaviors. But, his other 3 siblings were rude too. The 5 yr. old stuck his tongue out at me after I offered him a snack, and he called his mom names, to which she laughed.

The thing is-we are SO close and open and honest about our kids (or so I thought). If someone was going on, I really think she would share with me. I know she held him back a year but said it was because of sports or something...I think there's more going on than I know. My cousin was with us too, and she is a special needs preschool teacher. I asked her to watch him and she said she doesn't suspect autism or anything-just rotten behavior. My friend is NOT a pushover so this all is quite baffling to me.

 

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Before I reply, I really need to know:

 

Does "spit in my face" mean

- tongue out th-bbb-ttt with a grin, spatter on your face

Or

- wind up, hock-tooie, gob in your eye, child glares defiantly

 

Honestly, we stuck out our tonges at each other, laugh, and playfully call each other non-serious names (ie poo-poo-head); we also give "zerbits" (also called raspberries?) all the time. "Th-bbb-ttt" to an adult would be nothing in my family. Doing it to a toddler it would be playing nicely and amusing the small children.

 

Every response here fits with a "hock-tooie and glare defiantly" scenario... But it's a pretty strong reaction if we are only talking about "th-bbb-tt" play. I want to check on that.

 

I don't think my kids are rude... But it might fit some definitions of rude, I guess.

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I would wait until she went back home and then let her know casually in one of your phone calls.  Something very low-key and sweetened up, but a version of...

'I want you to know I am not upset but there was something that happened that I thought you should know about.  When you were here, Johnny spit in Jacks face and then when I stepped in to stop it, he spit in mine too.  I didn't want to make things uncomfortable while you were here,  but also thought you should know that it happened.'  

 

Then see what she says.  If nothing else, if he is accused of doing it again by someone else, she won't be as inclined to disbelieve the victim, as it is easy to do if you kid hasn't done something like that before.

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I would tell her.  Technically, I wouldn't have to, since she, her husband, and the rest of the neighborhood would have heard me dressing down the 7yo immediately.  But after the fact, yeah, I would tell her - stressing that is NOT normal, expected behavior.

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Before I reply, I really need to know:

 

Does "spit in my face" mean

- tongue out th-bbb-ttt with a grin, spatter on your face

Or

- wind up, hock-tooie, gob in your eye, child glares defiantly

 

Honestly, we stuck out our tonges at each other, laugh, and playfully call each other non-serious names (ie poo-poo-head); we also give "zerbits" (also called raspberries?) all the time. "Th-bbb-ttt" to an adult would be nothing in my family. Doing it to a toddler it would be playing nicely and amusing the small children.

 

Every response here fits with a "hock-tooie and glare defiantly" scenario... But it's a pretty strong reaction if we are only talking about "th-bbb-tt" play. I want to check on that.

 

I don't think my kids are rude... But it might fit some definitions of rude, I guess.

I think either of the scenarios you described are equally as offensive actually. I'm not sure what else to say because what you described next as happening between a child and adult, would not be acceptable to me either.

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Well, I wouldn't have let Dad off the hook, personally. I would have said something along the lines of "Kid's Dad, can you intervene here? Kid is spitting on my two year old and just spit on me when I picked her up." Then he would have gotten the "I Can't Believe This" stare from me until he responded.

 

Why wait until your friend came back? The adults present can handle it. And if they don't then that tells you something you probably needed to know anyway.

Yep. in hindsight, I wish I would've done this. I think I was in shock though for a few minutes.

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FWIW, my Aspie had a face spitting phase at about 6 - still young but older than most kids who are more socially aware would do such a thing, in my experience.  I explained to him that it was not acceptable.  I didn't punish him - it was not intentionally done to be rude or mean.  But I redirected and watched him big time until he was able to be socially acceptable (and hygienic) in this instance.  I cannot imagine him being told not to do it though and then doing it.  And thinking back, if I hadn't been in the room, I would have wanted to know about it.  

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I think either of the scenarios you described are equally as offensive actually. I'm not sure what else to say because what you described next as happening between a child and adult, would not be acceptable to me either.

Which one? The zerbitting? The silly names? It all seems pretty playful and relaxed to me.

 

Anyhow, I'm no pushover either... I'm just not offended by kids making funny faces or silly sounds (with collateral spit). I pretty much taught them to make funny faces and silly sounds. Is it that unusual to have zerbitted your baby's tummies? (It's hysterical. You should try it.)

 

I guess it's like wrestling. Really not ok in families that it's not ok in -- and kinda run-of-the-mill in other families.

 

To talk about a kid making mouth noises-with-spit as equivalent to if he hocked in someone's eye in anger; is very similar to mixing up an attempt at a playful wrestle with a violent attack. The kid's intent matters. The kid's context matters... And there's noting terribly wrong with kids and parents who thbbttt at each other for fun.

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Wow, you all are a lot more forgiving than I am.  If a 7 yo spit in my face, I don't care what kind of problems he has, there would be hell to pay.  I would be LIVID.  I would be completely grossed out.  That father would have immediately removed that kid from my house.  My friend could have stayed or not.  Spitting in my face is apparently a deal breaker for me.  I am disgusted just thinking about it.

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Yep. in hindsight, I wish I would've done this. I think I was in shock though for a few minutes.

I can absolutely understand that you were too shocked to react right away. Who would ever imagine a kid spitting at an adult??? :svengo:

 

I would have definitely mentioned it to the friend as soon as she came back, though. I think you should still tell her it happened even though it's after-the-fact, because the next adult or child may not be as kind about it as you were. Most people don't take kindly to being spit upon.

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Why throw the toddler under the bus? It's not that difficult to fathom an older child behaving badly without having a good reason.

 

Nooo I didn't mean that.  I wouldn't mean he would be to blame.  But the older kid could have been reacting to something.  Again, not blame.  Perhaps the 7 year old should know better and be able to control himself, but not all do. 

 

And maybe it had absolutely nothing to do with that.  It's just we don't have all the details. 

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Apparently your friend isn't a pushover except when it comes to her children. 

 

Then again if you have no experience with difficult children, you would absolutely have no idea what it can be like.  Parents can't exactly beat their children.  Well they can, but that's abuse.  I don't think you are suggesting abuse though.

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When similar things have happened to me - someone else's kid behaves in a way that directly impact me - I deal with it then and there 'Hey, that's not on. We don't spit at people in this house.' and walk away. I'm not gonna reward the behaviour with more attention than that.

This was not at my house, thank the Lord. It was at a public park with about 5000 other people waiting for the fireworks.

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Nooo I didn't mean that. I wouldn't mean he would be to blame. But the older kid could have been reacting to something. Again, not blame. Perhaps the 7 year old should know better and be able to control himself, but not all do.

 

And maybe it had absolutely nothing to do with that. It's just we don't have all the details.

To give more details...when I looked over, my daughter was crying and saying "no spit". I then saw him spit in her face at least 3 more times while she was crying. That's when I nabbed her. I looked at him and said in my best teacher voice "we do not spit". He looked up at me and spit enough that I felt it on my face.

 

Also important to know, there was other rude behavior besides this isolated Incident. Of course, rudeness is subjective...but I'm talking about grabbing food out of my kids hands, demanding things from me, never once heard a please or thank you, whining, calling his mom unpleasant names, etc.

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To give more details...when I looked over, my daughter was crying and saying "no spit". I then saw him spit in her face at least 3 more times while she was crying. That's when I nabbed her. I looked at him and said in my best teacher voice "we do not spit". He looked up at me and spit enough that I felt it on my face.

 

Also important to know, there was other rude behavior besides this isolated Incident. Of course, rudeness is subjective...but I'm talking about grabbing food out of my kids hands, demanding things from me, never once heard a please or thank you, whining, calling his mom unpleasant names, etc.

 

Sounds common for kids on the spectrum.  I've encountered kids older than that who would just take the bag of chips out of your hand because they wanted the chips.  Even those who have practiced not doing so over and over and over again.

 

And I have encountered parents in denial of it or who don't notice it to the extent others do.  It's like they get used to it and cope and know exactly what they need to do to ward off problems.

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In the context of this get together, it is "one more thing" that is either outright naughty or just indicative of a lack of social awareness.  But in the greater social context, it is something that is seen as particularly disrespectful, demeaning and of course dirty and that gives it special significance in people's minds.  For a socially aware child, they can be using it as a weapon to show disrespect, to demean others and to gross them out.  A socially unaware child could be doing it for sensory reasons or because it gets a reaction etc. with no additional social context there.  

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If someone was that good of a friend to me, I would certainly feel comfortable enough A) Giving there child a talking to and B) Telling a parent asap. Then again, I come from where the village raises the child, and the parents actually welcome that. If it was one of mine, I would certainly want to address it right away instead of hours or days after the fact.

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When similar things have happened to me - someone else's kid behaves in a way that directly impact me - I deal with it then and there 'Hey, that's not on. We don't spit at people in this house.' and walk away. I'm not gonna reward the behaviour with more attention than that.

That's how we deal with it. All fun stops if someone acts that way either to me or another child. But if it is my kids walking away just means they keep doing it, so they aren emoted for the situation. And if they pitch a fit over being corrected we deal with that, too.

 

We had a nice tantrum in the store today. Good times.

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To give more details...when I looked over, my daughter was crying and saying "no spit". I then saw him spit in her face at least 3 more times while she was crying. That's when I nabbed her. I looked at him and said in my best teacher voice "we do not spit". He looked up at me and spit enough that I felt it on my face.

 

Also important to know, there was other rude behavior besides this isolated Incident. Of course, rudeness is subjective...but I'm talking about grabbing food out of my kids hands, demanding things from me, never once heard a please or thank you, whining, calling his mom unpleasant names, etc.

Yeah. No. That kid gets walked straight over to mom with a clear explanation of what happened and how unacceptable that is to both you and the smaller child. Bodily fluids are kept to oneself. Period.

 

If my children were doing that and I wasn't told but found out later I'd be horrified and slightly upset. I cannot parent if I don't know what is going on, and I cannot be everywhere at once. Fortunately my friends and I have standing agreements that whoever is the mom closest is in charge of the kids and supervises everyone, not just her own children. If it cannot be handled verbally with friend the kid is taken over to their own mom. It works in co op and play dates, both.

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One of my kids went through a spitting phase when he was 5.  It was disgusting and rude.  Otherwise, he was very polite.  He'd just spit on people.  He didn't even have to be mad at whomever he spit on.  We'd of course address it and punish him every time he did it and after a while he'd apologize immediately and soon after that quit all together.  I definitely wanted people to tell me right away when he spit. (He is 100% neurotypical. It was just a rude and gross phase.)

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Given those details, this was not playful behaviour. It was rude, targeted, and somewhat aggressive. I would have taken the child to a parent or called a parent to the child.

 

I'm not sure if I would bring it up after the fact though. I don't know if it would be useful to the parent or child by the time it was too stale of an incident to be parented through. I might, but I might just let it go, and assume that she was largely already aware and doing her best-so-far.

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I think either of the scenarios you described are equally as offensive actually. I'm not sure what else to say because what you described next as happening between a child and adult, would not be acceptable to me either.

Really? I run a fairly tight ship as far as polite and rude behavior goes... but my family (extended included) enjoys what she described (raspberries, etc, done in a playful manner).

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