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Are there any paralegals here?


mellifera33
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I have a few questions. I have an "expired" degree (finished long ago and never used it) and I need to get up and running with some type of training fairly quickly so I can get a job. I am looking at post-BA paralegal certification programs--most of them can be finished in about a year. So.....questions.

 

Did you complete an ABA approved course? There are several available programs in my area, and the most attractive to me is not an ABA approved course. Is this important? Will I have more opportunities if I do an ABA course?

 

How long did you have to do unpaid interning? I was mentioning to my dh that it might take a while to get up and running and making money, and he was skeptical. He seems to think that certificate=instant money. lol

 

I don't have any sort of passion for law-related things. I like jobs where expectations are laid out and I can dot my i's and cross my t's and do a good job and go home at night and not think about it. Is this a reasonable expectation? Do you take work home? I want to be 100% available to my kids when I'm home, because my dh's job takes up every minute of every day. 

 

Thank you! 

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I started out as a legal secretary and worked my way into doing almost all paralegal tasks.  So I got there by experience, not by a specific degree or certification program.  I found it to be very stressful, but I was employed by a large, high powered law firm.  I think how stressful (or not) the job is could vary a lot depending on what area of law, the attorney(s) you were working with, etc.  And that was over twenty years ago, so my experience may not be all that relevant to today's working world.

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Have you seen ads for paralegal jobs in your area?  It might be good to check, for two reasons: 1) as NoPlace suggests, you can confirm demand first, before you start the certificate program; and 2) you can call those particular firms and ask whether a certificate is necessary, and if so, must it be ABA approved, whether you can work while earning the certificate, etc.

 

 

I would check to see if there is a demand for this since I have gotten the impression that it may not be great since even lawyers have trouble getting jobs. Also, I just read an article in the Washington Post that paralegals are one of the jobs likely to be replaced by computers.

 

I haven't seen this article, but this strikes me as odd.  Paralegals do a LOT of computer work; much of it (at least at my firm - but I am not a paralegal) involves document review in electronic discovery databases and flagging documents as privileged, good, relevant to a particular topic, and so on.  Search terms can only get so far, and then a human has to step in for review.  And when there are several million pages of documents, an attorney will want to pass that task to someone else!
 

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I started out as a legal secretary and worked my way into doing almost all paralegal tasks.  So I got there by experience, not by a specific degree or certification program.  I found it to be very stressful, but I was employed by a large, high powered law firm.  I think how stressful (or not) the job is could vary a lot depending on what area of law, the attorney(s) you were working with, etc.  And that was over twenty years ago, so my experience may not be all that relevant to today's working world.

 

I agree with the bolded.  I think there is a lot of variation from firm to firm as to expectations, assignments, overtime, etc.

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Have you seen ads for paralegal jobs in your area?  It might be good to check, for two reasons: 1) as NoPlace suggests, you can confirm demand first, before you start the certificate program; and 2) you can call those particular firms and ask whether a certificate is necessary, and if so, must it be ABA approved, whether you can work while earning the certificate, etc.

 

 

 

Here's a silly question--what is the best way to look for job ads? There are a bunch on Craigslist, but is CL the most common way to advertise for legit jobs? I have to admit, I've never had a real job. I don't even know how to look for a job other than handing in an application for retail. 

 

Regarding item 2--Do firms really hire schmucks off the street with no relevant education to do legal work? I can't imagine interviewing for a position doing something that I've never done before. I really feel out of my element when it comes to employment. I have a hard time lying, which I know is a major disadvantage when job hunting. 

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Here's a silly question--what is the best way to look for job ads? There are a bunch on Craigslist, but is CL the most common way to advertise for legit jobs? I have to admit, I've never had a real job. I don't even know how to look for a job other than handing in an application for retail. 

 

I honestly don't know.  I got my current job 20 years ago.  We've only added two new paralegals in that time, and I know one was hired through a temp agency.  Not sure about the other one.  But that made me think that calling temp agencies and legal head hunters would be a great place to start.

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Regarding item 2--Do firms really hire schmucks off the street with no relevant education to do legal work? I can't imagine interviewing for a position doing something that I've never done before. I really feel out of my element when it comes to employment. I have a hard time lying, which I know is a major disadvantage when job hunting. 

 

Now I've seen your addition.  In our firm, I believe only one paralegal has a certificate, and she was hired 25 years ago.  It depends on the particular firm, of course, but some would rather hire a person with strong computer and communication skills (and one who has a hard time lying!) and teach them the job as they go, rather than hire a schmuck who got a general certificate but can't think or prioritize or be willing to do whatever task is assigned without whining.  Since you already have a BA, I would think you have a leg up on some of the competition.

 

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Now I've seen your addition. In our firm, I believe only one paralegal has a certificate, and she was hired 25 years ago. It depends on the particular firm, of course, but some would rather hire a person with strong computer and communication skills (and one who has a hard time lying!) and teach them the job as they go, rather than hire a schmuck who got a general certificate but can't think or prioritize or be willing to do whatever task is assigned without whining. Since you already have a BA, I would think you have a leg up on some of the competition.

Hmm, the strong computer and communication skills might be a problem. And not being able to lie means that my resume gets round-filed immediately and if I do get an interview, it goes nowhere. I need to have some concrete, specific credential that I can point to and say, see? This piece of paper says I can do this set of skills.

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Logging back on to make it clear that I'm speaking solely from a commercial litigation point of view.  There are also real estate paralegals who, I think, are the ones to run down the checklist, make the phone calls, order the services and paperwork, and complete all the forms.  I would think those jobs are much more 9-5.

 

I really think calling a head hunter would be the best place to get info for your area (although, if you're rural, there may be few or none - I'm in a city).

 

 

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I am in Canada so not completely relevant, but thought I would add that here paralegal positions have most certainly increased over the years but are generally in direct relation to the size of firm. If you have a few big firms near you, I would call up their HR department and ask them directly what they are looking for qualifaction wise. If you don't have many bigger firms nearby it maybe a much harder road to employment. Here those kinds of positions are still largely filled by legal assistants with experience.

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I was a legal secretary for 15 years.  I would never pay to get a paralegal certificate.  I've worked for a small firm (4 attys), a medium firm (~10 attys), and a large firm (~90 attys). We made as much as the paralegals but had none of the responsibility--no worries about billable hours, minimal overtime during mega-deadlines or trials.  The few legal secretaries who were interested were hired into paralegal positions.  I have never understood why anyone would pay to get paralegal training, or honestly, why a firm would hire someone with a certificate over someone with practical legal experience.  Particularly in smaller firms, the lines often blur between paralegal work and secretarial/legal assistance work anyway, although I also billed hours occasionally for the large firm.

 

 

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What kind of law interests you? I think the demand for paralegals and type of certificate needed is going to be very market/location dependent. Our firm has been hiring paralegals with 12 week certificates from a local university over other applicants in a small claimant's practice. Large litigation firms would want the long program, and they would pay more, but you'd be driving downtown and working longer hours in a more formal situation. The big defense firms in my area of law weeded out their older paralegals who were making $$$ in favor of hiring less experienced paralegals with the lesser certificates to save money. Ours do not take work home and are not supposed to access work emails/files from anywhere other than work computers.

 

Talk to people who have completed the program and people at the type of firms you'd prefer.

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  I have never understood why anyone would pay to get paralegal training, or honestly, why a firm would hire someone with a certificate over someone with practical legal experience.  

Hmm...I don't have any legal experience, and don't know how to get hired without some sort of credential to show that I have some idea what I am doing. When I went to a temp agency a few years ago I was told that they couldn't help me because I wasn't even qualified to be a receptionist. At that point I just gave up and worked a few really crummy jobs. I quit work when I had kids, homeschooled for a couple of years, discovered I have no talent for it, and now am looking for a field that won't require years and years of education before I can work. I was hoping that paralegal certification would be a way to get a foot in the door.

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I was a legal secretary for 15 years. I would never pay to get a paralegal certificate. I've worked for a small firm (4 attys), a medium firm (~10 attys), and a large firm (~90 attys). We made as much as the paralegals but had none of the responsibility--no worries about billable hours, minimal overtime during mega-deadlines or trials. The few legal secretaries who were interested were hired into paralegal positions. I have never understood why anyone would pay to get paralegal training, or honestly, why a firm would hire someone with a certificate over someone with practical legal experience. Particularly in smaller firms, the lines often blur between paralegal work and secretarial/legal assistance work anyway, although I also billed hours occasionally for the large firm.

I agree about smaller firms and lines blurring.

 

I do think times have changed and without prior legal assistant experience or training you would be hard pressed to get a legal secretary job. I know for sure my city it is nearly impossible to get a legal assistant job without a two year diploma program. In fact the main 6 big law firms in my city hold at least 2-3 recruiting events a year and ours generally hires 8 students every year. They wouldn't bother looking at someone with no background knowledge.

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I do think times have changed and without prior legal assistant experience or training you would be hard pressed to get a legal secretary job. I know for sure my city it is nearly impossible to get a legal assistant job without a two year diploma program. In fact the main 6 big law firms in my city hold at least 2-3 recruiting events a year and ours generally hires 8 students every year. They wouldn't bother looking at someone with no background knowledge.

 

Yeah, I just looked at an ad for an "entry-level legal assistant" and it stated that only "qualified and experienced" applicants would be considered. So I'm assuming that "entry-level" either means just graduated from a program, or experienced with no certification? 

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Your best bet is to call several possible employers and ask for the HR person/department.  Explain your situation and ask what you would need to be considered for an entry-level position.  Some concentrations have more employment opportunities than others too, so ask about that.

 

Some years ago when I was exploring which way to go work-wise, I looked into becoming a paralegal or a public school teacher.  I already have a graduate degree, so becoming a licensed teacher would be a 1-semester graduate program. Becoming a paralegal would take 9 months at the local community college.  Cost-wise, they were nearly the same.  I called a number of law firms and school systems always found people who were willing to briefly talk to me about the basic qualifications of their new hires. 

 

Unfortunately both were somewhat unsure unless I was willing to accept a long commute.  Neither would have easily led to a local job right away. A friend of mine went the teacher route and had a 90-minute commute each way for two years despite graduating #1 in her "career-changer" teacher program.  Then she got a local job.  Another middle-aged person I know got the community college paralegal certificate and still has a rough commute four years later.  But they like their work and make decent money too.

 

As it turned out, I found work that didn't require additional education that meshes with my family's needs, so I never went that way.

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Do you have any administrative skills? Typing? Software expertise? If not, maybe check out your local community college or government employment office to see about classes to develop those skills. From there, you'd have something to list on your resume and a possible foot in the door for higher level positions.

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Hi! I'm a lawyer and was an instructor for an ABA-approved paralegal program. I'm going to be blunt with you: being a paralegal is tough. I wouldn't get a certificate and then jump into a firm environment if you haven't already been in a firm as a receptionist, secretary or file clerk.  The legal field can be super demanding (depending on specialty), and there is little guarantee of an 8-5 job. I don't know how much research you've done, but as a paralegal in a firm, you'll need to meet billable hour requirements. In government and corporate environment, you'll be less likely to have to do billable hours. 

 

Here is what I would do, in your shoes, if you're serious about breaking into the paralegal market: I'd get a job in a firm--whatever job to get your foot in the door. File clerks generally have the least training/skills, and need filing skills, light typing and organizational skills. Basically, it's a runner position. You could also try for a receptionist position -- handling phones, ushering people to conference rooms, organizing people. Both file clerk and receptionists should be 8-5. Take some time to get to know the people -- lawyers, paralegals, the firm administrators. See what practice areas you like and dislike. Make friends. The legal profession is a lot about relationships. Take four to six months to figure out if the legal profession is for you. If you think it is, then talk to firm administrators about your interest in training to become a paralegal. Our staff administrators were all super, and really helpful in working to find people career paths that they were interested in. They might permit job shadowing and a some side training. My firm did training for associates at lunch that anyone could sit in on. Obviously, firm administrators aren't all wonderful, but there are some good ones. You'll be able to tell once your in on the ground. Once you have your first legal job, it becomes a lot easier to find other ones. 

 

When I was teaching, about half my students had legal experience (current paralegals, file clerks, etc) and the other half were unemployed and going into the profession cold. The portion of students that had legal experience, even just a few months of it, were so much further ahead just in understanding the culture and the way the legal profession works that is was really startling.

 

Best of luck in your decision. Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions. 

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