CA personal exemption for vaccines stricken except for homeschoolers

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ca/201506300.asp

 

I realize vaccines are a contentious issue, and it is my hope that this thread doesn't turn into a debate of the merits or dangers of vaccines. However, I just learned that the CA law passed today that removes personal exemptions. I also learned from the attached HSLDA article that homeschoolers are exempt, which I find interesting since we legally do not have homeschoolers in CA. However, it seems it listed small private schools to cover homeschoolers.

 

This is interesting to me. As a new resident of CA, I must say I was looking forward to the leniency under the previous law so I didn't have to deal with the hassle on a particular vaccine with family history issues. I am, above all, an advocate for parental rights even though I understand the benefits of vaccines. I digress...I said I didn't want to start a debate.

 

However, I would assume that those in charter schools or PSPs would not be allowed to employ the personal exemption under the new homeschooling loophole.

 

Do you think CA will see a surge of new independent homeschoolers from diehards in the anti-vaccination community?

 

(Edited to amend some personal medical information I unwisely posted on a public forum.)

[amiesmom]

Our charter sent out an email stating something along the lines that if any children attend classes at their learning centers or participate in school field trips, they must have vaccination records on file (when the law goes into effect), however if we are only using the charter to homeschool and do no classes or other activities with them they would not need the vax records. I'm wondering if that will hold true, as they are technically public school students.

 

I have all my kids up to date, but I signed the waiver for one of my kids simply to avoid going to the Dr. before I enrolled him a few years ago, so I'll need to send in his updated records.

[Lawyer&Mom]

My understanding is that students in public school independent study programs are exempt. This would seem to include homeschooling through a charter. Basically they don't want you in an actual classroom without your shots.

[Ellie]

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ca/201506300.asp

 

I realize vaccines are a contentious issue, and it is my hope that this thread doesn't turn into a debate of the merits or dangers of vaccines. However, I just learned that the CA law passed today that removes personal exemptions. I also learned from the attached HSLDA article that homeschoolers are exempt, which I find interesting since we legally do not have homeschoolers in CA. However, it seems it listed small private schools to cover homeschoolers.

 

This is interesting to me. I do vaccinate my kids, but there is one vaccine I do not give them. I had reactions to it as a child. But some doctors have been difficult to work with on that issue. As a new resident of CA, I must say I was looking forward to the leniency under the previous law so I didn't have to deal with the hassle. I am, above all, an advocate for parental rights even though I understand the benefits of vaccines. I digress...I said I didn't want to start a debate.

 

However, I would assume that those in charter schools or PSPs would not be allowed to employ the personal exemption under the new homeschooling loophole.

 

Do you think CA will see a surge of new independent homeschoolers from diehards in the anti-vaccination community?

 

It still isn't clear to me what it is that private schools are supposed to do. Are they required to notify the state of students who are immunized?

 

And why wouldn't PSPs not be allowed to employ the personal exemption under the homeschooling option? Because students enrolled in PSPs are homeschooled children.

 

ETA: As a former PSP owner/administrator, I would personally be considering and encouraging my parents to consider civil disobedience.

 

[SeaConquest]

I am friends with the co-author of the bill, who is also an attorney. My understanding, in speaking with her, is that you are exempt if you file a PSA or if your charter does not have onsite classes. If you take onsite classes through a public homeschooling charter, you will need to vax. My son's charter had a 47% vax rate, so those people will either file a PSA, obtain a medical exemption, or work with their ped on a catch up schedule. However, people who already have a PBE on file will be grandfathered in until the next time their kid moves up to either Kindy (if they have a PBE in daycare/preschool) or 7th grade. I don't know how it will affect PSPs. If they are private schools, then presumably they would have to collect vax records as well.

[SeaConquest]

The CA Homeschool Network seems to believe that PSPs are exempt:

 

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/legislation/currentbills/

[Ellie]

I am friends with the co-author of the bill, who is also an attorney. My understanding, in speaking with her, is that you are exempt if you file a PSA or if your charter does not have onsite classes. If you take onsite classes through a public homeschooling charter, you will need to vax. My son's charter had a 47% vax rate, so those people will either file a PSA, obtain a medical exemption, or work with their ped on a catch up schedule. However, people who already have a PBE on file will be grandfathered in until the next time their kid moves up to either Kindy (if they have a PBE in daycare/preschool) or 7th grade. I don't know how it will affect PSPs. If they are private schools, then presumably they would have to collect vax records as well.

 

Most PSPs do keep vax records, because most keep some sort of cumulative records for their students. I can't speak for all of them, but for myself, I requested immunization records (the ones you get when you vax your dc) when children were first enrolled, and I filled out the Health Dept. form, on the back of which is the exemption that the parents sign. 

[sassenach]

It's an unbelievable violation of parental rights. I will be donating to organizations who will be fighting this in the courts. I will also be working to recall my reps, who both voted yes. Recall petitions are already underway.

[sassenach]

And to the question, yes, this will raise homeschooling rates, but not right away. The grandfather clause will create a slower build. I fully expect new homeschool legislation in the next 2-4 years.

[SeaConquest]

And to the question, yes, this will raise homeschooling rates, but not right away. The grandfather clause will create a slower build. I fully expect new homeschool legislation in the next 2-4 years.

 

There is already a steady increase in homeschoolers in CA. I think that it would be difficult to tease out the effect of the bill, unless we see a spike. But, I agree, I don't think there will be a spike -- both because of the grandfathering provisions and because most people are simply unwilling or unable to take on homeschooling.

[Ellie]

Ok...CHEA of California has the most comprehensive information about this right now. (Scroll down to the "Health Forms" section. Don't worry about the other stuff.)  You have to read through lots of words, lol, but it looks to me as if no, the PSP would not have to report anything to anyone, which was my concern. The parents have to go through the hassle first, but once they have their paperwork in hand, they just give it to the PSP administrator, who presumably will stuff it in the children's cum files.

[SeaConquest]

Ok...CHEA of California has the most comprehensive information about this right now. (Scroll down to the "Health Forms" section. Don't worry about the other stuff.)  You have to read through lots of words, lol, but it looks to me as if no, the PSP would not have to report anything to anyone, which was my concern. The parents have to go through the hassle first, but once they have their paperwork in hand, they just give it to the PSP administrator, who presumably will stuff it in the children's cum files.

 

Ellie,

 

I didn't see anything about SB 277. The link seems to reference old law. Am I missing it?

[sassenach]

There is already a steady increase in homeschoolers in CA. I think that it would be difficult to tease out the effect of the bill, unless we see a spike. But, I agree, I don't think there will be a spike -- both because of the grandfathering provisions and because most people are simply unwilling or unable to take on homeschooling.

They're underestimating parental convictions about not vaccinating. It will for sure increase homeschool rates. It will also send people packing to other states. Mostly, I think people will find alternative medical practitioners who will give medical exemptions.

 

It's such a huge violation of civil rights, I have real hope that it will be struck down as unconstitutional.

[SeaConquest]

They're underestimating parental convictions about not vaccinating. It will for sure increase homeschool rates. It will also send people packing to other states. Mostly, I think people will find alternative medical practitioners who will give medical exemptions.

 

It's such a huge violation of civil rights, I have real hope that it will be struck down as unconstitutional.

 

I agree with you about the bolded. People will be flocking to the Sears and Gordons of the world.

[idnib]

Is the medical exemption up to the doctor's discretion, or do certain standards have to be met?

 

I think more people will homeschool and leave for other states, but sometimes CA is used as a test case for things and it's possible other states will move in the same direction. I know CA isn't the first state to do this, but a lot of times once something happens here other states do the same.

 

I think the appeal will to the U.S. Supreme Court and they'll probably decline to hear it.

 

The homeschooling exemption is interesting to me. They must think we stay home all the time. I think the Disneyland thing got the ball rolling, so Homeschool Days at Disney are rather ironic now.

[SeaConquest]

Is the medical exemption up to the doctor's discretion, or do certain standards have to be met?

 

I think more people will homeschool and leave for other states, but sometimes CA is used as a test case for things and it's possible other states will move in the same direction. I know CA isn't the first state to do this, but a lot of times once something happens here other states do the same.

 

I think the appeal will to the U.S. Supreme Court and they'll probably decline to hear it.

 

The homeschooling exemption is interesting to me. They must think we stay home all the time. I think the Disneyland thing got the ball rolling, so Homeschool Days at Disney are rather ironic now.

 

It is up to the doctor's discretion.

[Roadrunner]

The homeschooling exemption is interesting to me. They must think we stay home all the time. I think the Disneyland thing got the ball rolling, so Homeschool Days at Disney are rather ironic now.

:)

 

I avoid homeschool days for this reason.

[Ellie]

Ellie,

 

I didn't see anything about SB 277. The link seems to reference old law. Am I missing it?

 

There's no discussion about the bill.

 

One of the things I was wondering about was whether private schools are involved in the exemption process, but apparently they are not.

 

So far, no one has really explained what parents will have to do now to get any exemption at all. The language in the bill itself is way too confusing. o_0

 

ETA: Here's the text of the bill.  As someone has already said, home-based students are exempt from the requirement, so those who file their own affidavits, as well as those who enroll their dc in a PSP, would be exempt.

[Roadrunner]

. As someone has already said, home-based students are exempt from the requirement, so those who file their own affidavits, as well as those who enroll their dc in a PSP, would be exempt.

Home based charter schools are also exempt.

[idnib]

I wonder what it means to be home-based and not receive classroom instruction. Would this mean the library book club is out? A kids' extracurricular cooking class? SAT prep?

 

I also noticed no possibility for a student to submit titer records in lieu of vaccines records for kids who've already had the disease.

[Roadrunner]

I wonder what it means to be home-based and not receive classroom instruction. Would this mean the library book club is out? A kids' extracurricular cooking class? SAT prep?

.

In our area there is a charter school that provides funding, but doesn't offer any classes. All the instruction is provided by the parent at home. There is also another charter that runs classes twice a week at their own facility. The first charter is exempt, the second one isn't.

 

I didn't think about extracurricular. I doubt it affects them.

[Arcadia]

I also noticed no possibility for a student to submit titer records in lieu of vaccines records for kids who've already had the disease.

Back home, a negative TB test would exempt a student from BCG jab. My dad who is a Hep B carrier is exempt from the Hep B jab. The rest of us were tested and didn't need boosters for Hep B. These exemptions are all in the notes portion of our immunization records.

[rainbird2]

So, if a partially vaccinated homeschool child would like to take a science class at a B&M private school that offers a la carte classes, or the child would like to enroll in a class at a community college, is this allowed? 

 

I'm really confused by this bill...

 

All I can think about is all of the Waldorf schools that will be closing down in the next few years...poor Waldorf schools.

 

(p.s. I appreciate how this thread has not turned into a debate.  Let's hope it stays that way!!)

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Ellie,

 

I didn't see anything about SB 277. The link seems to reference old law. Am I missing it?

I think this references the new laws from 2014. HSLDA has detailed information on that.

 

Here is the bill language. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB277

 

It does look like some charter schools may be exempt if there are no classes taken, but I think the individual school could probably opt to require it if they choose.

 

Also, thank you for not debating the vaccination issue. :)

[Ellie]

I wonder what it means to be home-based and not receive classroom instruction. Would this mean the library book club is out? A kids' extracurricular cooking class? SAT prep?

 

I also noticed no possibility for a student to submit titer records in lieu of vaccines records for kids who've already had the disease.

 

Some charter schools have actual campuses with actual classrooms. Students attend daily, just like any other public school. Usually, there is some special reason for the school--its charter--such as one that emphasizes science or math or performing arts; there was talk once of having an all-girls or all-boys charter school, and seems to me there was talk of having one that was run like a military school.

 

Some charter schools are home-based. Either the parents choose instructional materials which the charter school pays for, or the children must do K12 or other Internet-based stuff. In both cases, children learn primarily at home, although there might be enrichment classes at a campus.

 

A library book club would not be out. A cooking class would not be out. SAT prep would not be out.

[idnib]

I also noticed no possibility for a student to submit titer records in lieu of vaccines records for kids who've already had the disease.

 

Any info about this thing I mentioned yesterday? I'm just curious. For example, both my kids have had chicken pox and have not had the vaccine. If I enrolled them would they need the vaccine? I don't have any plans to enroll them, I'm just asking for the sake of discussion.  :)

[TranquilMind]

It's an unbelievable violation of parental rights. I will be donating to organizations who will be fighting this in the courts. I will also be working to recall my reps, who both voted yes. Recall petitions are already underway.

That's the real concern here.

 

Today vaccines, tomorrow...what kind of hoops will the government demand in terms of your personal medical choices?  This should concern everyone.  Some day it could easily be, "No job for you unless you fill out this 50 page questionnaire and submit to these 42 physical and mental exams.  We have the "RIGHT TO KNOW" everything about you "for your safety and the safety of others."

 

It's a code word.  Whenever a government actor begins talking about "for your safety (or convenience)", you are about to be stripped of some autonomy. 

[TranquilMind]

Any info about this thing I mentioned yesterday? I'm just curious. For example, both my kids have had chicken pox and have not had the vaccine. If I enrolled them would they need the vaccine? I don't have any plans to enroll them, I'm just asking for the sake of discussion.  :)

A titer should suffice.

Most older people can provide titers indicating resistance to lots of things, even diseases for which they never experienced symptoms.  It is part of what comes from growing up in a world where childhood illnesses occurred and we survived them and were immune for life. 

[Sneezyone]

Vaccine requirements and other public health restrictions on individual liberty are well-settled areas of law. The same principles allow for quarantines and movement restrictions in the case of pandemics. California's new restrictions are tough but so are Mississippi's. I wouldn't count on a legal challenge getting very far.

[SeaConquest]

That's the real concern here.

 

Today vaccines, tomorrow...what kind of hoops will the government demand in terms of your personal medical choices?  This should concern everyone.  Some day it could easily be, "No job for you unless you fill out this 50 page questionnaire and submit to these 42 physical and mental exams.  We have the "RIGHT TO KNOW" everything about you "for your safety and the safety of others."

 

It's a code word.  Whenever a government actor begins talking about "for your safety (or convenience)", you are about to be stripped of some autonomy. 

 

I thought the intent was not to turn this into a debate thread?

 

Personally, I don't buy into all the fearmongering and slippery slope arguments. The fact is that there are pockets of low vaccination all throughout California. As I mentioned, my son's charter school has a 47% vaccination rate -- well below herd immunity. And there are numerous schools throughout the state that have these sorts of abysmal rates of vaccination.

 

Consequently, with so many people attempting to hide in the herd, outbreaks keep popping up. There was the 2010 outbreak of Pertussis, which had more than 9,000 cases. There was the Measles outbreak at Disneyland. There was another 10,000 cases of Pertussis in 2014. An unvaxed boy in Spain just died of Diphtheria. These are preventable deaths.

 

The PBE was not working. Irresponsible (and one could argue, selfish) parents of healthy children were not vaxing because of "research" they did on the internet or on mommy message boards -- most of whom can't understand a PubMed article and rely on Mercola and sites with an obviously anti-vaccine agenda for their "research."

 

And I say this as someone who had the same fears when my first son was born in 2009. This was pre-Wakefield being discredited and post-Dr. Sears' book -- both of which put a lot of fear into my mind about the safety of vaccines. As a result, my oldest was very delayed and selectively vaxed. In the 6 years since my oldest was born, a lot of research has been done into the safety of vaccines (including the aluminum load -- to Sears' point), the CDC schedule (the 'so many all at once' argument), the Autism connection (let's repeat: there is none). So, when my second child came around, I felt much more confident about vaccinating him on schedule. Thankfully, he has been no worse for the wear.

 

So, I am sensitive to the concerns that parents have about vaccines. But, as the pockets of low vaccination rates and repeated outbreaks evidence, the current system wasn't working. I am not saying that  SB277 is going to be a panacea, but, IMHO, it is a sensible move in the right direction. And other states will be watching to see how this plays out.

[TranquilMind]

I thought the intent was not to turn this into a debate thread?

 

Personally, I don't buy into all the fearmongering and slippery slope arguments. The fact is that there are pockets of low vaccination all throughout California. As I mentioned, my son's charter school has a 47% vaccination rate -- well below herd immunity. And there are numerous schools throughout the state that have these sorts of abysmal rates of vaccination.

 

Consequently, with so many people attempting to hide in the herd, outbreaks keep popping up. There was the 2010 outbreak of Pertussis, which had more than 9,000 cases. There was the Measles outbreak at Disneyland. There was another 10,000 cases of Pertussis in 2014. An unvaxed boy in Spain just died of Diphteria. These are preventable deaths.

 

The PBE was not working. Irresponsible (and one could argue, selfish) parents of healthy children were not vaxing because of "research" they did on the internet or on mommy message boards -- most of whom can't understand a PubMed article and rely on Mercola and sites with an obviously anti-vaccine agenda for their "research."

 

And I say this as someone who had the same fears when my first son was born in 2009. This was pre-Wakefield being discredited and post-Dr. Sears' book -- both of which put a lot of fear into my mind about the safety of vaccines. As a result, my oldest was very delayed and selectively vaxed. In the 6 years since my oldest was born, a lot of research has been done into the safety of vaccines (including the aluminum load -- to Sears' point), the CDC schedule (the 'so many all at once' argument), the Autism connection (let's repeat: there is none). So, when my second child came around, I felt much more confident about vaccinating him on schedule. Thankfully, he has been no worse for the wear.

 

So, I am sensitive to the concerns that parents have about vaccines. But, as the pockets of low vaccination rates and repeated outbreaks evidence, the current system wasn't working. I am not saying that  SB277 is going to be a panacea, but, IMHO, it is a sensible move in the right direction. And other states will be watching to see how this plays out.

My apologies if that violated the spirit of the OP's post. 

 

I simply think the unparalleled invasiveness is the most important thing about that decision, and am not arguing it.  Just mentioning it.

 

Are kids noticeably more sick at your school than at others with high vaccination rates?   

 

Deaths and lifelong disabilities occur with forced vaccination on susceptible individuals as well, which is why it needs to be an informed choice taking into account individual biological variances.  We all are not the same.  We don't all respond in the same way to any drugs.  We have different makeups. 

 

Had we not eliminated all liability for drug companies, they would never have wanted to shift the responsibility away from the parents. 

[idnib]

I thought the intent was not to turn this into a debate thread?

 

Personally, I don't buy into all the fearmongering and slippery slope arguments. The fact is that there are pockets of low vaccination all throughout California. As I mentioned, my son's charter school has a 47% vaccination rate -- well below herd immunity. And there are numerous schools throughout the state that have these sorts of abysmal rates of vaccination.

 

Consequently, with so many people attempting to hide in the herd, outbreaks keep popping up. There was the 2010 outbreak of Pertussis, which had more than 9,000 cases. There was the Measles outbreak at Disneyland. There was another 10,000 cases of Pertussis in 2014. An unvaxed boy in Spain just died of Diphtheria. These are preventable deaths.

 

The PBE was not working. Irresponsible (and one could argue, selfish) parents of healthy children were not vaxing because of "research" they did on the internet or on mommy message boards -- most of whom can't understand a PubMed article and rely on Mercola and sites with an obviously anti-vaccine agenda for their "research."

 

And I say this as someone who had the same fears when my first son was born in 2009. This was pre-Wakefield being discredited and post-Dr. Sears' book -- both of which put a lot of fear into my mind about the safety of vaccines. As a result, my oldest was very delayed and selectively vaxed. In the 6 years since my oldest was born, a lot of research has been done into the safety of vaccines (including the aluminum load -- to Sears' point), the CDC schedule (the 'so many all at once' argument), the Autism connection (let's repeat: there is none). So, when my second child came around, I felt much more confident about vaccinating him on schedule. Thankfully, he has been no worse for the wear.

 

So, I am sensitive to the concerns that parents have about vaccines. But, as the pockets of low vaccination rates and repeated outbreaks evidence, the current system wasn't working. I am not saying that  SB277 is going to be a panacea, but, IMHO, it is a sensible move in the right direction. And other states will be watching to see how this plays out.

 

I don't think it's fair to remind everyone it's not a debate thread and then put up a bunch of debatable stuff.  :)

[idnib]

A titer should suffice.

Most older people can provide titers indicating resistance to lots of things, even diseases for which they never experienced symptoms.  It is part of what comes from growing up in a world where childhood illnesses occurred and we survived them and were immune for life. 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you on the merits of the argument, I'm just pointing out the titers business is not in the text of the bill. It seems it was either overlooked or the intention is the letter of the law and vaccinating those who've had the disease.

 

Or maybe that vaccine would fall under a medical exemption and the doctor could write a note if they could verify. I could not get verification for the fact that my kids had chicken pox. I just kept them home until it was over and never called the doctor. Not that it would have helped anyway, as the doctors don't want you to come in. Anyone could call the doctor's office, describe the chicken pox and be told to stay home, and have it go into the child's record. 

 

Actually, I do have one picture of DS's chicken pox, as he wanted to see what his back looked like.  :tongue_smilie:

[SeaConquest]

I don't think it's fair to remind everyone it's not a debate thread and then put up a bunch of debatable stuff.  :)

 

Fair point.

 

I think I am just exasperated by all the FB posts about this within my local community. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, as long as it is the anti-SB277 one. The minute someone shares a different view, it is a debate and immediately censored. It gets tiring.

[SeaConquest]

My apologies if that violated the spirit of the OP's post. 

 

I simply think the unparalleled invasiveness is the most important thing about that decision, and am not arguing it.  Just mentioning it.

 

Are kids noticeably more sick at your school than at others with high vaccination rates?   

 

Deaths and lifelong disabilities occur with forced vaccination on susceptible individuals as well, which is why it needs to be an informed choice taking into account individual biological variances.  We all are not the same.  We don't all respond in the same way to any drugs.  We have different makeups. 

 

Had we not eliminated all liability for drug companies, they would never have wanted to shift the responsibility away from the parents. 

 

I cannot answer that. It is a homeschool charter with optional onsite classes. Most of the people who attend are not onsite. My son's classes have maybe 15-20 kids in them. I'm not aware of any outbreaks though, no.

 

I actually vaxed my oldest for MMR when he started a French immersion preschool. Many of the students and their families fly back to France during the summer, and I thought that there was a very real risk that one of those families would bring Measles back with them. (The preschool also had a very low vaccination rate and France has quite a bit of Measles.) 

[TranquilMind]

I cannot answer that. It is a homeschool charter with optional onsite classes. Most of the people who attend are not onsite. My son's classes have maybe 15-20 kids in them. I'm not aware of any outbreaks though, no.

 

I actually vaxed my oldest for MMR when he started a French immersion preschool. Many of the students and their families fly back to France during the summer, and I thought that there was a very real risk that one of those families would bring Measles back with them. (The preschool also had a very low vaccination rate and France has quite a bit of Measles.) 

I see.

Both spouse and I had measles and sometimes think about going overseas.  Maybe France is a good option.  Lifelong immunity is a wonderful thing that re-vaccination every few years doesn't provide. 

[TranquilMind]

I'm not disagreeing with you on the merits of the argument, I'm just pointing out the titers business is not in the text of the bill. It seems it was either overlooked or the intention is the letter of the law and vaccinating those who've had the disease.

 

Or maybe that vaccine would fall under a medical exemption and the doctor could write a note if they could verify. I could not get verification for the fact that my kids had chicken pox. I just kept them home until it was over and never called the doctor. Not that it would have helped anyway, as the doctors don't want you to come in. Anyone could call the doctor's office, describe the chicken pox and be told to stay home, and have it go into the child's record. 

 

Actually, I do have one picture of DS's chicken pox, as he wanted to see what his back looked like.  :tongue_smilie:

I didn't read it in its entirety but you are correct that it should NOT have been left out.  That is an interesting legal question.  The point of the bill is protection so by providing evidence that one is already protected, I can't imagine any rational objection to that, assuming it really is about protecting kids and not moving product. 

 

I took my kid who got it to the doctor as I had no idea what it was.  I had never had chicken pox, so the doctor insisted on a titer for me.  I was completely immune because I grew up with siblings who apparently had been exposed at least, though I don't remember any of us having them. 

[TranquilMind]

Fair point.

 

I think I am just exasperated by all the FB posts about this within my local community. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, as long as it is the anti-SB277 one. The minute someone shares a different view, it is a debate and immediately censored. It gets tiring.

Wow, we must be on different sorts of feeds.  I see exactly the opposite. 

[idnib]

Fair point.

 

I think I am just exasperated by all the FB posts about this within my local community. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, as long as it is the anti-SB277 one. The minute someone shares a different view, it is a debate and immediately censored. It gets tiring.

 

Well, I'm against SB-277 for reasons I won't post to avoid starting a debate, but I say this with neutrality. The opponents are much more vocal than the supporters so while there may be debate and censoring in your social media, polling of the state as a whole shows strong support. 

[bgtw]

my son's charter school has a 47% vaccination rate -- well below herd immunity. And there are numerous schools throughout the state that have these sorts of abysmal rates of vaccination.

 

 

Actual vaccination rates are not counted.  From your post I'm guessing 53% of students had PBEs on file?  The vast majority of those students could be vaccinated for everything but one thing (perhaps parents decide to skip Hep B or Chickenpox).  If you skip one vaccine (or even dose) you have to waive all vaccines and file a PBE.  It is the number of PBEs that is counted, not vaccinated or unvaccinated children.  

[SeaConquest]

Actual vaccination rates are not counted.  From your post I'm guessing 53% of students had PBEs on file?  The vast majority of those students could be vaccinated for everything but one thing (perhaps parents decide to skip Hep B or Chickenpox).  If you skip one vaccine (or even dose) you have to waive all vaccines and file a PBE.  It is the number of PBEs that is counted, not vaccinated or unvaccinated children.  

 

I understand that, and believe that is part of the problem. With so many PBEs, the actual vaccination rate is obscured. Not the best way to go about making public policy/health decisions.  

[bgtw]

In our area there is a charter school that provides funding, but doesn't offer any classes. All the instruction is provided by the parent at home. There is also another charter that runs classes twice a week at their own facility. The first charter is exempt, the second one isn't.

 

I didn't think about extracurricular. I doubt it affects them.

My kids attend an ISP charter 2 days a week and we've been told that they are still exempt.  Have you heard otherwise from  this second charter you mentioned? It is my understanding that the "classroom-based instruction" refers to the legal definition for how funds are allocated.

 

• There is a legal definition of "classroom-based instruction" that is used for apportioning funds to charter school independent study programs and we feel that will be the definition that is applied in this law (since there is no other legal definition). Based on that definition, classroom-based instruction occurs only when students are REQUIRED to spend at least 80 percent of their instructional time in a classroom being taught by the school's credentialed teachers. If the child's instruction does not meet these requirements it is nonclassroom-based instruction.

 

• Students enrolled in Independent Study Programs (public/charter) are also exempt from immunization requirements if they are not receiving classroom-based instruction meaning, as explained above, they are not required to receive more than 80 percent of their instruction onsite in a classroom being taught by the school's teachers.

 

from: http://www.hsc.org/immunizations.html

[idnib]

I understand that, and believe that is part of the problem. With so many PBEs, the actual vaccination rate is obscured. Not the best way to go about making public policy/health decisions.  

 

I agree. Were my kids enrolled in school, I would have filed just to have freedom and flexibility. It wouldn't necessarily reflect whether our family had decided to selectively vax or do a modified schedule.

[AimeeM]

That's the real concern here.

 

Today vaccines, tomorrow...what kind of hoops will the government demand in terms of your personal medical choices?  This should concern everyone.  Some day it could easily be, "No job for you unless you fill out this 50 page questionnaire and submit to these 42 physical and mental exams.  We have the "RIGHT TO KNOW" everything about you "for your safety and the safety of others."

 

It's a code word.  Whenever a government actor begins talking about "for your safety (or convenience)", you are about to be stripped of some autonomy. 

Word.

I'll go ahead and note that I'm pro-vaccine. I'm not going to claim to understand why anybody wouldn't vaccinate a child who is physically able to be vaccinated.

But I'm only adding that for context.

I'm appalled by this violation of parental rights, regardless of my personal feelings on the matter. 

 

[shinyhappypeople]

I thought the intent was not to turn this into a debate thread?

 

Personally, I don't buy into all the fearmongering and slippery slope arguments. The fact is that there are pockets of low vaccination all throughout California. As I mentioned, my son's charter school has a 47% vaccination rate -- well below herd immunity. And there are numerous schools throughout the state that have these sorts of abysmal rates of vaccination.

 

 I encourage you to take the 47% vaccination rate with a large grain of salt.  When I homeschooled through a charter I filed a PBE because I have a personal belief that it's none of the school's business and totally irrelevant to the function of the charter whether my homeschooled kids were vaccinated or not. :)  I have direct knowledge of other families doing something similar.  

 

Another scenario I'm aware of is parents who object to some but not all of the vaccines or want to vaccinate on a different schedule.  

 

Count me among the pro-vax parents who are INFURIATED at this usurpation of the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children.

[TranquilMind]

Word.

I'll go ahead and note that I'm pro-vaccine. I'm not going to claim to understand why anybody wouldn't vaccinate a child who is physically able to be vaccinated.

But I'm only adding that for context.

I'm appalled by this violation of parental rights, regardless of my personal feelings on the matter. 

Exactly.

The indifference on this astounds me. 

[TranquilMind]

 I encourage you to take the 47% vaccination rate with a large grain of salt.  When I homeschooled through a charter I filed a PBE because I have a personal belief that it's none of the school's business and totally irrelevant to the function of the charter whether my homeschooled kids were vaccinated or not. :)  I have direct knowledge of other families doing something similar.  

 

Another scenario I'm aware of is parents who object to some but not all of the vaccines or want to vaccinate on a different schedule.  

 

Count me among the pro-vax parents who are INFURIATED at this usurpation of the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children.

Exactly.  They count everyone who doesn't fit in the narrow box as "unvaccinated" in order to keep up the scare tactics.  Many are fully or partially vaccinated on different schedules.   Some parents just keep their business to themselves about many issues.  I actually had a school demand we state our income one year because of some form required for those parents who were asking for free lunches.  I said we did not qualify and would not be filling out the form since it was inapplicable to us.

 

The school demanded the form or it would retaliate against my child.  I struck out the form with a line, wrote in some legal verbiage stating the inapplicability to us and that we were not requesting free lunches and sent it in.  Problem solved but that was ridiculous.   No way was I sharing income level or any other non-academic information with a school. 

[TranquilMind]

I agree. Were my kids enrolled in school, I would have filed just to have freedom and flexibility. It wouldn't necessarily reflect whether our family had decided to selectively vax or do a modified schedule.

This makes sense. 

[momto2Cs]

So, if a partially vaccinated homeschool child would like to take a science class at a B&M private school that offers a la carte classes, or the child would like to enroll in a class at a community college, is this allowed? 

 

I'm really confused by this bill...

 

All I can think about is all of the Waldorf schools that will be closing down in the next few years...poor Waldorf schools.

 

(p.s. I appreciate how this thread has not turned into a debate.  Let's hope it stays that way!!)

 

Reading the text of the bill itself, it looks like anything post-high school (including community colleges) is NOT included in the bill. What I am not sure on is how this will all pertain to DE students, who are technically high school students attending a college.

 

[EKT]

which I find interesting since we legally do not have homeschoolers in CA. 

 

Not to side-track your conversation at all, and please forgive my ignorance, but I'm genuinely curious about this...what do you mean "we legally do not have homeschoolers in CA?" I was certain that homeschooling was legal in all 50 states?! Do you just mean that CA homeschoolers need to homeschool under an umbrella group or something? (I'm on the east coast and my state happens to allow me to be a completely independent homeschooler, but I am aware that some states require umbrella groups.) Thanks to anyone who has a chance to fill me in!

 

 

That said, back to vaccines.... I read an article in the last few months (I think it was in the New York Times?) that discussed how CA was having a big issue with tons of folks not vaccinating their kids. IIRC, apparently lots of upper-class types in the wealthy areas of southern California are not currently vaccinating their kids, citing the exemption. It was something like the majority of kindergarteners in one area were NOT vaccinated. So, this new law is possibly in response to California's high rate of non-vaccination. 

 

I'm very torn on the issue. On the one hand, my kids happen to be fully vaccinated because after I did the research, that's what made sense for our family. On the other hand, I am VERY wary of laws that limit parents' rights in any way. Anyway, the whole issue is very interesting; will be interesting to see how parents react as far as homeschooling, etc. goes.