I have one of those "Do you think my 2 year old is gifted?" questions...

[Sarah CB]

Ok, first off I know how dumb the question is. But, having one gifted child already (eldest) and then having one child with learning challenges, and then having a very quick (but maybe not gifted) child - this last one is blowing me away.

 

He's 2 and will turn 3 in October. Last year at this time he was barely speaking (mom, dad, truck, etc.). By Christmas he was talking in sentences and he hasn't stopped since. He's got a great grasp of grammar (I, me, he, she, his, her, am, are, etc.) and his pronunciation is actually better than my 6 year old for some sounds. He was saying the "j" sound before his older brother.

 

But, it's the things he asks about. About six months ago he asked me where the sun was going when it goes down - he's talked about it a lot since then. When playing games if he's looking for someone he'll say things like, "Where's my brother? Maybe he's disappeared!" Dh was playing peek-a-boo with him a few days ago and ds was saying, "I can't see you - maybe I need glasses." In the car this week (out of the blue) he said, "Daisy, I was just thinking about your shoes. How much were they?"

 

It seems strange to me to have a child who isn't 3 yet and is thinking about this stuff. Then again, since I also had a ds who barely talked at all until he was 3.5 and then needed two intense years of speech therapy perhaps my experience is just skewing my idea of normal.

 

So, is it weird that he's saying things like this or am I just experiencing a typical 2-3 year old?

[In The Great White North]

Statistically, siblings are within 5 points of each other on IQ tests, so, yes, he's probably gifted too.

 

And one can be gifted and have learning disabilities, the middle child probably is too.

[Jen500]

And one can be gifted and have learning disabilities, the middle child probably is too.

 

:iagree:

Of my 3 kids, I'd have guessed that my youngest was gifted. He was a bit of a late talker, but when he started talking, it was long sentences and with a large vocabulary...it was obvious that he had just been listening and thinking about everything. Then, for other reasons, I had my older kids' (who had several years of speech therapy) given the WISC, and their scores fell in the gifted range.

[beansprouts]

I agree that your son's questions seem to be very perceptive. Maybe :001_smile:

[katilac]

Much like spontaneous reading, being verbally precocious almost always means a noticeably bright child, but not neccesarily a gifted one. Correct pronunciation isn't relevant. I think the comments about the shoes and glasses show simple verbal precocity; the remark about the sun, and the fact that it's ongoing, is more indicative of lotsa thinking going on behind the scenes.

 

I think the data supports a strong genetic correlation for IQ; that is, if one child is gifted, it's more likely than usual that siblings will test gifted as well, and they will almost certainly test in the bright to very bright range (unless something like Down's Syndrome comes into play).

 

Personally, I'm not quite as sold on the 'siblings generally test within 5 points of each other' data - - that's a very strong statement, pretty much equivalent to saying siblings will have no discernable differences in scores. Scores vary from test to test, especially in the higher ranges (by test to test, I don't mean different tests, but the same test given at different ages/times). And if the initially tested child is profoundly gifted, I certainly don't think the sibs will tend to test within 5 points.

 

I don't have the knowledge to pick the research apart, but I see data for sibling correlation originating in many places. The 'five points' data I have only seen from gifted centers that sell testing and other services to parents. Specializing in gifted services might mean a high level of expertise, but it also means they have a horse in this race - - research that indicates gifted children have gifted siblings definitely serves their financial interests.

 

That doesn't mean their research ISN'T accurate (and, again, I don't have the chops to prove it one way or the other), but it makes my cynical little self leery of their findings.

[Storm Bay]

I think the data supports a strong genetic correlation for IQ; that is, if one child is gifted, it's more likely than usual that siblings will test gifted as well, and they will almost certainly test in the bright to very bright range (unless something like Down's Syndrome comes into play).

 

Personally, I'm not quite as sold on the 'siblings generally test within 5 points of each other' data - - that's a very strong statement, pretty much equivalent to saying siblings will have no discernable differences in scores. That doesn't mean their research ISN'T accurate (and, again, I don't have the chops to prove it one way or the other), but it makes my cynical little self leery of their findings.

 

I'm a bit leery of the 5 points, too, but mostly based on family stuff. My uncle was tested genius, and clearly is pg (and it showed in his life and career when he did his science degrees with tons of scholarships, won prestigious research awards, doesn't do well with small talk as many pg people don't, etc, etc), but there's no way my dad is also pg (but hg for sure). Even my birth siblings and I didn't all test hg, although all were at least moderately gifted. Of course, I'm skeptical of testing in general, because there are some areas of thinking and giftedness you just cannot measure in a test, and I'm thinking of things such as aptitude in philosophy, music, etc, which certainly aren't something you can truly test in a 6 yo (particularly ear for music on a written test), no matter how brilliant they are.

[Sarah CB]

I'm a bit leery of the 5 points, too, but mostly based on family stuff. My uncle was tested genius, and clearly is pg (and it showed in his life and career when he did his science degrees with tons of scholarships, won prestigious research awards, doesn't do well with small talk as many pg people don't, etc, etc), but there's no way my dad is also pg (but hg for sure). Even my birth siblings and I didn't all test hg, although all were at least moderately gifted. Of course, I'm skeptical of testing in general, because there are some areas of thinking and giftedness you just cannot measure in a test, and I'm thinking of things such as aptitude in philosophy, music, etc, which certainly aren't something you can truly test in a 6 yo (particularly ear for music on a written test), no matter how brilliant they are.

 

We're pretty skeptical on testing as well. The IQ tests are so limited in so many ways. Dh did his undergrad in psychology and I guess a lot of his professors were also skeptical of IQ tests.

 

There's a 22 point difference between my first and second children. And yet, the second (who had the lower score) is driven in his own area of interest, is incredibly sensitive and intuits things the other kids would never think of and is much more spiritually sensitive than the others. In some ways, his "gifts" are more pronounced than dd's intellectual gifts. And the one area on the test that he scored in the gifted range for was "abstract reasoning". He's also the child with the most challenges, anxiety issues, possible OCD, tics, etc. I suspect he may have some degree of CAPD and I'll be taking him in for testing in that area.

 

The littlest one is blowing me away right now mostly, I think, because it's been so many years since I had a child this age who actually talked. Last night he noticed the moon (half moon) and was demanding to know where the rest of it was because "it's supposed to be round!" I don't think any of my other kids have ever wondered about that. We all keep looking at him and asking, "where did you come from?" when he comes up with this stuff...and he answers, "God made me."

[Nan in Mass]

I suspect my brightest child is my middle one, the one who has struggled in school all his life. I think there is a lot going on in his head and he just doesn't pay attention to things like academics much. He is definately gifted in people. The oldest is gifted mechanically. That sure isn't going to show up on an intelligence test. He didn't really struggle in school, but he didn't shine, either. The youngest is the one other people would consider the brightest - learned to read young (the others didn't read smoothly until 4th grade), loves strategy games, is academically brighter than the others. I think he's probably the same amount bright as the oldest, really, but he would certainly test brighter. They all were high strung, didn't talk until 2, and then blew people away with their questions and comments. I don't have any feel for how big a gap 5 points is, but I think probably my youngest and oldest are close, with the middle one higher. And yet if you tested them, the oldest would be well below the youngest and the middle one probably wouldn't test well at all because he has things he is distinctly slow at.

[beansprouts]

I suspect my brightest child is my middle one, the one who has struggled in school all his life. I think there is a lot going on in his head and he just doesn't pay attention to things like academics much. He is definately gifted in people.

 

OT: I am beginning to wonder this about my 4 year old. Developmentally he is the most "normal" of the three, and yet...

[Storm Bay]

I suspect my brightest child is my middle one, the one who has struggled in school all his life.

 

And yet if you tested them, the oldest would be well below the youngest and the middle one probably wouldn't test well at all because he has things he is distinctly slow at.

 

 

This reminds me of an old thread where someone brought up (maybe this came up more than once on the old AL boards) that sometimes someone who is gifted is so because they're a deep thinker. Deep thinking takes time. Timed tests are a real problem because speed is a factor. (I'm sure I don't remember the posts in detail, but his is my interpretive summary.)

[Sarah CB]

This reminds me of an old thread where someone brought up (maybe this came up more than once on the old AL boards) that sometimes someone who is gifted is so because they're a deep thinker. Deep thinking takes time. Timed tests are a real problem because speed is a factor. (I'm sure I don't remember the posts in detail, but his is my interpretive summary.)

 

And now that speed is a bigger factor in the tests it can really drag a score down...

[Misty]

He's also the child with the most challenges, anxiety issues, possible OCD, tics, etc. I suspect he may have some degree of CAPD and I'll be taking him in for testing in that area.

 

Sarah,

You might also want to request testing for high-functioning autism, specifically Asperger's. The things you listed are all co-morbids of Asperger's.

 

I have one daughter who has tics, OCD, and a host of other things. She is suspected to have Asperger's. Her little sister almost certainly does have Asperger's, but we haven't received an official diagnosis yet (still waiting).

 

Please remember that children with Asperger's can seem completely normal to most people so you really should learn more about it before you rule it out completely.

 

And by the way, your youngest son does sound very bright! It's usually hard to tell by speech alone, but I would say with his advanced speech, inquisitive nature, and a brother with a high IQ, then it's probably a good guess that his IQ is up there a little too!

[Sarah CB]

Sarah,

You might also want to request testing for high-functioning autism, specifically Asperger's. The things you listed are all co-morbids of Asperger's.

 

I have one daughter who has tics, OCD, and a host of other things. She is suspected to have Asperger's. Her little sister almost certainly does have Asperger's, but we haven't received an official diagnosis yet (still waiting).

 

Please remember that children with Asperger's can seem completely normal to most people so you really should learn more about it before you rule it out completely.

 

And by the way, your youngest son does sound very bright! It's usually hard to tell by speech alone, but I would say with his advanced speech, inquisitive nature, and a brother with a high IQ, then it's probably a good guess that his IQ is up there a little too!

 

 

You know, you're the second person this week who has mentioned Asperger's. I've had concerns with this child since he was 15 months old. For awhile I was convinced he had autism - eye contact was nearly impossible, he couldn't function at all in a group, at 3 1/2 he had at least an 18 month speech delay, big tantrums, etc. The dr we saw at that time completely dismissed my concerns (in about 5 minutes) and said it might be adhd.

 

We went through two years of intensive speech therapy, began Suzuki violin (which has done wonders for him in so many ways), and just lived our lives. He still now does really well in small groups, Ok in large groups (though sometimes he'll retreat to somewhere quiet), and most people would be suprised if I mentioned any underlying concerns. I was at the point where even I was dismissing my earlier concerns, but then the last six months have been rough. The tics started in a severe way, he was having night terrors more nights than not, the anxiety was getting in the way of regular life, and his frustration level when something wasn't "perfect" began to escalate.

 

We're having the CAPD test next week and we also see a new pediatrician next week. I'm hoping that we get some answers.

 

Thanks for your post.