Organization

[mellifera33]

Things are reaching the boiling point here as far as toy organization. My seven y/o plays by taking everything apart into its component parts, then playing with the little pieces--random legs, a single lego brick, a monopoly piece, one car from the traffic jam game, etc. I have put most of the games on high shelves or in my closet, but the way he plays drives me crazy. There are tiny pieces of everything all over his room. 

 

He probably has ADHD, has low working memory, low perceptual abilities....a recipe for a messy room. Once there are more than a few things out, the mess is too overwhelming and cleaning up causes a meltdown. I can't blame him--I have an internal meltdown every time I have to clean up the mess. I am strongly considering putting a padlock on his toy closet in order to enforce the one toy out at a time rule (otherwise he forgets, or Dad comes along while I'm working on something else and tells them they can get more toys out.  :glare: )  I thought that by seven I wouldn't have to do the locking up toys thing.  What have you done with your kids with ADHD or other organization issues to keep the toy mess under control?

[MomatHWTK]

I think the one toy at a time rule stinks and destroys all hope of creativity.  I love when my kids use something for a new purpose and make up their own play with the item(s).  But then with 4 kids, I've learned to get over wanting a neat child's room.  :)

[Starr]

Keep games put away that need particular parts. Cut back on toys that are in his room, rotate to attic. Have regular clean up time together. And enjoy his creativity!

[FairProspects]

Close the door? Learn to not care?

 

While we do periodic clean-ups and clean outs, I was one of those kids who had a room like you describe and I did get my act together in college with roommates. But I have so many great memories of my room filled with paper dolls and special boxes of beautiful things organized in my own way just how I liked them. I also do think of myself as a creative person - one of my undergraduate degrees is in drama and I've worked for museums in historical costume production in addition to years in the theatre. My creativity would have completely been squelched if I had to pick up all my dolls, costume pieces, and design inspiration at the end of each day. It may look like a cluttered mess to you, but interdisciplinary brains see the potential across objects & purposes and they are busy putting these pieces together in their heads in ways others can only imagine. I wouldn't be so quick to label this a deficiency, but instead see if there is a way you can all live in the potential. :)

[mellifera33]

Pbbbbbttt, you are not helping.  :glare:  :lol:  I could get behind these suggestions, except that when it's time to vacuum, there is an EPIC MELTDOWN. It is actually overwhelming to him, not just me. There are also small daily meltdowns when he can't find something that swears he just had, accuses someone of stealing it, etc. when it's just in the middle of a pile of random stuff. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Put half of it behind locked doors. Friday at lunchtime, pick it all up together and vacuum. Let him decide what he wants to swap out, if anything, from the cabinet, and begin the week anew. We have to vacuum regularly because of allergies. We do a half day of school Friday. We celebrate the end of the school week with a special treat (movie, popcorn, whatever) and they are occupied for a couple of hours while I do my administrative school stuff for the week.

[prairiewindmomma]

Also, stop buying stuff that needs particular parts. Don't feed the monster. :)

[mommymonster]

Little pieces are my nemesis.

 

I have a box, bin, or shelf for **everything.** The boys know that things should be tidy so that we can find things... it is not merely an attempt by mom to torture them.  :001_rolleyes:

 

We do a "Five Minute Pick-Up" before each meal (and whenever stuff is getting nasty). I set a timer and we all try to get whatever we are working on put away. The five-minute time limit keeps everyone from being too oppressed, but it is long enough to cut the mess. We also used to do scaffolding before the five minutes begin so we don't freak out over the time pressure. Something like this: 

 

Me: DS, what are you going to pick up during our clean up? 

DS: Legos.

Me: What do you need to get to clean up the Legos?

DS: The bin.

Me: Awesome, so you're going to go get the Lego bin and then put the Legos in the bin? 

DS: Yes!

 

[Targhee]

ADHD minds have lots of difficulty with organization (materials management, remembering to bring something, staying on task with what they are doing, etc), and it can get overwhelming for them in a mess.  Maybe do not go so drastic as the one toy rule, but have a portion of things stored away that they can rotate out for.  My kids have a couple of robber maid totes which house some toys (their choices).  If they want something from the bins they make an exchange.  They can still have things to play with in creative ways, as they like, but not so many things that they get overwhelmed.  We need evening clean ups in the bedrooms (just to cut a path from door to bed to closet).  On Saturdays we do a deeper clean.  And every six months or so we purge things out.  If my kids have something they are "working on" they can leave it up and clean up the rest (other toys, dirty clothes, books, etc).  Usually those things they have intentionally left out are not the problem.  It's the "drop" problem.  They don't put things down intentionally (either in a created setting or in their proper place), they just drop them out of their hand in a haphazard spot when their attention is diverted elsewhere.

 

Another suggestion - have visible storage.  Two of my ADHD kids like having everything out because then they can "see" where things are ( :huh: ). Their minds aren't organized in a traditional fashion and neither are their surroundings - they need to have things are the forefront.  Having shelves instead of drawers/cupboards, having clear bins instead of opaque, having labels with pictures, all help with those who need a visual reminder of where things are (and what they were doing).

 

If you want to work on organizing personal belongings I suggest starting in family/community areas (like hanging up coats and putting away socks and shoes, or putting away books on the shelf - with bookmarks if they are "in the middle" of 5 books - when they aren't actively reading).  That way they have more autonomy in their room, but they are still getting the much needed life skills reinforced.

 

 

[geodob]

Perhaps what you could do, is setup a dedicated 'work space/ play space' in his room?

That is sectioned off.

Which he takes a toy into to play with and take apart.

Where all of the parts are within the space.

To get another toy out, he first needs to clear the space.

By either putting the toy back together?

Or putting the parts in a plastic bag and labelling the bag.

Then storing the bag away.

 

[Heathermomster]

Until recently, DS used one of these to store pieces parts.  We installed a closet organizer and use clear bins and rope handled tubs for stuffed animals, sporting equipment, and the big stuff.  I periodically go through rooms and pitch things.  DS is a teenaged boy now.  I still have to help him, but it is easier clean if all the parts have a home.  I used to rotate toys all the time.

[PeterPan]

Pbbbbbttt, you are not helping.  :glare:  :lol:  I could get behind these suggestions, except that when it's time to vacuum, there is an EPIC MELTDOWN. It is actually overwhelming to him, not just me. There are also small daily meltdowns when he can't find something that swears he just had, accuses someone of stealing it, etc. when it's just in the middle of a pile of random stuff. 

It's time to get his vision checked by a developmental optometrist.  I'm not joking.  There's actually a train of thought that issues in ADHD/ASD with rigidity, wanting things in the same place every time, finding stuff, etc. are connected to peripheral vision problems, visual memory, etc.  You find a developmental optometrist through COVD.  I would definitely get him checked.  Just start with the regular, annual exam (you know, the $60 thing) and mention to them the problems you're having and see what happens.

 

Also, stop buying stuff that needs particular parts. Don't feed the monster. :)

I know you know this, because you have kids with a variety of labels, but some kids, by the definition of their specialness, play more with parts than the whole and do not use toys as they're intended.  I think at some point if you (the op) want the dc to play a different way, maybe using the toy in a more typical way, you'll actually have to sit down with him and model the play and do it.  Then get over it when it takes it apart and uses it for the parts, lol.  :D  

 

I think you have to decide where you want the mess.  We decided our standard is a clean room.  My ds has an epically clean room. Don't ask what my living room looks like.   :lol:  I have an extremely high tolerance for stuff out.  What I've done with my dd over the years, and you can disagree, is I did the cleaning for her.  She had the flexibility to allow that, and it was easier than asking her to sort and cull her own stuff.  So I went in maybe every 6 months and just cleaned out her room.  I only do it occasionally now.  I did it a year ago when she was gone, and she was actually really happy about it.  I make it nice, like buying pretty hangers and spiffing things up while I'm there. And my policy is I remove things and allow you to have back anything you can remember to ask for.  ;)

 

Ds, on the other hand, is extremely rigid.  (See my hackles doing up in defense cuz he's so rigid.)  With him, we've really, really worked on accepting some structure and being willing to put things away.  There's a lot of getting on the floor doing it with him or turning it into a race.  I keep open bins with one bin for each type of thing.  I keep a miscellaneous drawer in the kitchen (it's a full dish drawer, rather large) where every loose thing goes.  If the thing doesn't have a category and bin, it goes in that catchall drawer.  That's how I make my peace with it.  Down in the basement I have a toy box for loose things but open tubs for every major toy (hex bugs, plastic soldiers, blocks, etc.).  So if it doesn't have a proper tub and it's just this loose thing, in the toy box it goes.  And if the toy box is too full, I pull out stuff, figuring it's time for those things to move on, that they're outgrown.  Well he finds outgrown toys in the storage room and still likes them, hehe.  No matter, at least they're not underfoot.

 

So we have a system that CAN get to clean, but we don't maybe ENFORCE clean as much as some people.  Like FP, my dc have a lot of complex, integrated play.  Right now my ds has this thing taking over the living room where there are two totes, a LARGE box, a lego table top, then the lego table, then a stool, all making this sort of 12 foot bridge.  I have no clue what he's doing, lol.  He has playmobil people lined up on the totes shooting toward the playmobil people on the box.  There's a grappling hook (safety pin) and string.  Scissors, things cut up around the box, a car full of cowboys.  Sometimes he'll do things like fry the fish from a fishing game in his toy kitchen.  Play is just all integrated and it's BIG, bigger than life.  My dd played the same way, and I just don't worry about it, kwim?  She would put on these big things, like one year it was a circus, complete with animal exhibits and carnival games...  

 

It's just how they play.  Deal with it.  They're developing skills with visualization and organization and planning.  These are ubercreative, connected thinkers.  So some type A linear thinker said the only way to live is perfectly picked up every night.  Whatever.  When they want uber creative people who can make stuff happen, they call our kids.  

 

I don't mean to pry too much, but at some point you might want to go ahead and get actual evals, instead of just assuming.  Might give you a better understanding of your situation and maybe connect you to some better tools.  That would be psych evals in addition to the developmental vision eval.

[Targhee]

It's time to get his vision checked by a developmental optometrist. I'm not joking. There's actually a train of thought that issues in ADHD/ASD with rigidity, wanting things in the same place every time, finding stuff, etc. are connected to peripheral vision problems, visual memory, etc. You find a developmental optometrist through COVD. I would definitely get him checked. Just start with the regular, annual exam (you know, the $60 thing) and mention to them the problems you're having and see what happens]

I am curious how many find the bolded true of their ADHD kids? My three ADHD kids don't show any desire to have things in the same place (unless generally on the floor is the same place). In fact it is often a point of contention when I ask them to give something a "home" - their choice of where - and then they don't put it there or even remember where that home is. :-( Does this mean they have *extreme* difficulty with organization, and may for the rest of their lives? I mean, beyond typical ADHD type difficulties.

[PeterPan]

I am curious how many find the bolded true of their ADHD kids? My three ADHD kids don't show any desire to have things in the same place (unless generally on the floor is the same place). In fact it is often a point of contention when I ask them to give something a "home" - their choice of where - and then they don't put it there or even remember where that home is. :-( Does this mean they have *extreme* difficulty with organization, and may for the rest of their lives? I mean, beyond typical ADHD type difficulties.

I was being overly polite.  I sorta get called out for being too blunt.   ;)   Subtract the ADHD from the sentence and it will seem a bit more accurate to you.

 

Technically there can be cognitive rigidity with ADHD, but I don't think cognitive rigidity is the same as the finding things, same place every time, etc.  There the rigidity is more a protective measure because it's not there when you look for it, and I think that's visual memory and peripheral vision, developmental vision issues.  I'm trying to remember what I read ages ago that connected that.  Maybe it was something from the LMB people?  Everybody has their theories and people like to make sweeping statements.  I think it can also happen that someone has a trait and *doesn't* have the label that someone was making the sweeping statement about, which is why I was trying to broaden it a bit.  

 

On the flip side, just because one family's ADHD kids have not had a symptom doesn't mean NO kids with ADHD will have that symptom.  My ds has gone ADHD with social delay by one psych, ASD with ADHD by another psych.  Same kid, same symptoms, same year.  This kind of ping pong with our kids happens all the time.  

 

Your kids sound like typical, happy ADHD kids.  I see no issue.   :D   As to whether they may someday decide it's important to them to compensate for their weaknesses at adopt new habits or structures, I have no clue.  Obviously that's a choice we all make.  Given that there's such a range of things, I just don't tend to view what you're describing as extreme.  They sound like happy ADHD kids.  Happens all the time.   :)

 

Cry or smile, kwim?  A lot of things just don't matter.

 

[mellifera33]

We tried the big nine-square shelf with the fabric boxes, but everything ended up on the floor every day. Now all of the boxes are in a big cabinet that the 7 y/o can open but the younger kids can't. I think that what I may do is to go through all of the boxes with ds7, and let him pick the pieces that he usually uses for his games out and keep them separate. 

 

It's time to get his vision checked by a developmental optometrist.  I'm not joking.  There's actually a train of thought that issues in ADHD/ASD with rigidity, wanting things in the same place every time, finding stuff, etc. are connected to peripheral vision problems, visual memory, etc.  You find a developmental optometrist through COVD.  I would definitely get him checked.  Just start with the regular, annual exam (you know, the $60 thing) and mention to them the problems you're having and see what happens.

 

 

I don't mean to pry too much, but at some point you might want to go ahead and get actual evals, instead of just assuming.  Might give you a better understanding of your situation and maybe connect you to some better tools.  That would be psych evals in addition to the developmental vision eval.

 

I will have to do more research on the dev. opt. stuff. I am not convinced that it is supported by the research. And if the exam is $60 where you live, it's probably $300 here. lol 

 

We have more evals scheduled for the fall. Fortunately, the school is really stepping up and we will be doing lots of different tests and questionnaires to figure out what is going on. I'm relieved, because the ABD psych who diagnosed his dyslexia/dysgraphia is now trying to get more money out of us, three months after we paid in full.  :confused1:

 

Edited to add the questionnaires I'm supposed to fill out during the summer:

 

BASC-2 Parent Rating Scales-Child          This looks like general behavior questions.

 

CONNERS 3- Parent Short                         ADHD screen.

 

Parent Questionnaire for CARS2-QPC       Autism screen.

 

The school psych is also going to do a nonverbal IQ test and some more achievement testing. 

[Targhee]

My kids did go to a COVD developmental optometrist, and did about 8 months of vision therapy. We were faithful about home therapy. I personally didn't notice an improvement of anything, behavior/focus/reading/tracking or anything else. And the optometrist was somewhat hostile in the beginning when she found out we were using meds. I summized she was determined that ALL ADHD symptoms could be improved by vision therapy, and that ADHD wasn't an actual pathology (insufficient neurotransmitters, delayed development in certain areas of the brain, etc). I can't say she represents all COVD optometrists (she was older, retired a year after we were done), just that you should screen your opt. by personality too.

[PeterPan]

We tried the big nine-square shelf with the fabric boxes, but everything ended up on the floor every day. Now all of the boxes are in a big cabinet that the 7 y/o can open but the younger kids can't. I think that what I may do is to go through all of the boxes with ds7, and let him pick the pieces that he usually uses for his games out and keep them separate. 

 

 

I will have to do more research on the dev. opt. stuff. I am not convinced that it is supported by the research. And if the exam is $60 where you live, it's probably $300 here. lol 

 

We have more evals scheduled for the fall. Fortunately, the school is really stepping up and we will be doing lots of different tests and questionnaires to figure out what is going on. I'm relieved, because the ABD psych who diagnosed his dyslexia/dysgraphia is now trying to get more money out of us, three months after we paid in full.  :confused1:

 

Edited to add the questionnaires I'm supposed to fill out during the summer:

 

BASC-2 Parent Rating Scales-Child          This looks like general behavior questions.

 

CONNERS 3- Parent Short                         ADHD screen.

 

Parent Questionnaire for CARS2-QPC       Autism screen.

 

The school psych is also going to do a nonverbal IQ test and some more achievement testing. 

I use large rubbermaid totes with the lids off, one for each type of toy.  They line up under a counter.  That way he can see what goes where and throw them in.

 

I agree with Targhee that these developmental optometrists really vary.  You're best when you're working on something very concrete like convergency insufficiency, not something vague.  My dd had convergence insufficiency, no true depth perception, and poor visual memory.  All those things are quantifiable and verifiable and they improved with VT, meaning I'm satisfied.  The exam I was suggesting to you was a basic vision exam, but having it done by the dev. optom. instead of whomever you usually go to.  That way you could ask the dev. optom. to *screen* for some developmental stuff and see if  you actually like them.  As you say, the longer developmental vision eval is dramatically more expensive.

[merry gardens]

After eight children, over twenty years of life with toddlers and young children, and a very large collection of various toys, I've got a system and philosophy that works for us.

 

It's far too easy these days to aquire more toys and stuff than children can reasonably handle. Giving them more than they can handle in a recipe for frustration. They can't even truly enjoy what they have because they have to mine through a mess to find the particular treasure they want. The term "hidden in plain sight" comes to my mind.

 

We keep most of the toys in "deep storage" (closet under stairs or high shelves kids can't reach) then rotate which are within reach. We have one of those train table, (low to the ground, large table with edges to contain parts) that holds whatever building toys or multi-piece sets that are currently out. (Trains, legos, Keva planks, playmobile, etc.) Most of the building and play takes place on the table or can be put there in a short time. It's in the basement where we homeschool. There's another toy box for miscellaneous toys , plus 2 old hampers--one for stuffed animals and one for dress-up clothes. Crayons go in a box near another table where the younger ones homeschool. Chalk and white board markers go by where they are used. Book shelves all over, but there were often barricaded or behind closed doors.

 

We often start the homeschool week on Monday morning after a weekend with putting things in their place. I figure it's an outward exercise that does something similar to what we're trying to do inside there head. We organized in such a way that they can access what they have. Group similar things together. Don't give them more than they can handle - or at least don't give them more than they can handle with your help. They can't do everything at once, so put some things aside until they're ready for them.

 

As far as the deep storage and toy rotation is concerned, it's a bit child directed and a bit mom-directed. Sometimes they ask, other times I decide it's time for a switch.

[kbutton]

My family members with ADHD exhibit a wide variety of organizational trouble, and it's not consistent across the label. Everything I read about these issues talks about intervening at the point of failure, and my family members, unfortunately, don't have the same failure points. Some of the same principles do apply. We also have the issue of too much stuff (in spite of sorting perpetually) and esp. of too many gifts sometimes. Some extended family is starting to get the point, and they are working with us on that.

 

My younger son is the sloppiest and the most forgetful. He truly cannot remember where to put anything unless verbally asked "where does this go" one item at a time, and then it's a 50/50 proposition. We give him easily accessed storage, and it's mostly IKEA bins on shelves in the closet. He plays with his toys all mixed up because nearly all of his toys are imaginative. So, Imaginext, Safari figures (knights and dragons), etc. all get mixed up. They do have their own bins, but they are easy to sort--he can pull several bins out at the same time when putting them away. We used to have a modular (lots of pieces) Imaginext castle that we bought at a yard sale. The kids loved it, but they never wanted to clean it up because it took time and effort to set up. We found a different model at a yard sale (also Imaginext) that folds in half and just goes on a shelf. They agreed to send the original one to grandma's, and now they use the folding one. HUGE TIME SAVER. Maybe some of you have swaps you could make like that if you looked closely at the possibilities. Legos are separate from the other toys. If he has an important paper to keep, he has a clear file box in his bedroom--in it he has several hanging folders for Lego plans (they aren't really sorted--they just don't fit in one folder), a box for birthday cards, and a paper airplane box. He is also allowed to put paper clutter in his desk or on top of his dresser. Both boys received a coat tree for Christmas. My son's had an integrated umbrella stand. We put a wire trash bin on the umbrella stand, and he puts about half of his weapons (nerf, foam swords, light sabers, etc.) in that bin. He hangs swimsuit, towel, jackets, bookbags, etc. on it. If he has something he's worn that could be worn again, he hangs it here. It keeps  lot off of the floor.

 

The other child has a coat tree. He is motivated to keep certain things in certain places, and he did a great job of it for a while. Suddenly, it became one thing too many, it all fell apart, and then he couldn't remember where anything was. That required a big reorganization (with clear storage), talk about goals, and picture-taking of the details of the project for his reference. We've not had trouble since then, and he is very motivated to keep it clean. This child hangs all clothing in his closet, except for underwear, socks, and pajamas. He has one tiny dresser for this, and a couple of drawers in it are for crafts or important personal items. 

 

We tend to do room cleaning when sanitation requires it and/or when the zones that are allowed to be cluttered (top of desk, etc.) are too full to contain stuff. Or someone loses something. The kids are learning to own their own weaknesses and strengths, but I realize that not all kids are ready for that. 

 

Another family member keeps a task notebook. It's not dated, and it's not a planner. It's for "in the moment" notes that he used to lose and that would appear all over the place. This way, old tasks are still there, and new tasks can be added. Once something is complete, it can be scribbled out.  

 

We have a long way to go, but we try to keep things in check so that the kids aren't overwhelmed. If I had a child that liked parts and pieces, I would be tempted to hit yard sales and thrift stores for duplicate games, junk bins, etc. Let him find parts and pieces he likes, and then for any games or things the whole family keeps, put them where he can't get them so they don't have missing pieces. Make finding the pieces an adventure. Let him put everything in one bin, dump, and put it all back. That lets him have his pieces, but it doesn't necessitate constant vigilance that things don't get lost. I bet if you asked around, friends and family members would have spare parts of their own from games that have gotten messed up.

 

My parents' toy storage is basically one big pile. They do separate out block and Lincoln logs and obvious things, but otherwise, it's all just dumped in a big bin while kids are over. (We all live out of town, so we converge for days, and then we go home.) It was much the same system when I was a kid. They often helped with cleanup--they'd supervise, but they didn't do it all either. They just let us borrow some energy and helped us learn to "see" things that were out.

 

A couple of my family members don't see anything at all. It's just easier to go one surface or area at a time and have them pick things up one at a time, and then they can sort "mine/note mine." When it's a big job, or time is tight, it's better for me to start grabbing everything that isn't mind and putting into a pile or box for each person. I think poor visual memory is part of it, but it's not a hill to die on every week (just sometimes, lol!). I have sacred places where NO ONE is allowed to put their junk. It's for bills and such. No one is allowed to check mail unless they bring it directly to me, or they show me what logical place they put it (immediately). There are some areas that I kind of refuse to clean or chores I refuse to do--this is not to be mean, but if they can do something to take a task off my plate, I consider it even since there are some things that (for now), I HAVE TO DO in the name of time or until they mature--things I wouldn't have to do if I didn't live with so many ADHD folks. In our house, I rarely do dishes directly. I will sometimes if we are busy, and there are a lot of them. I do supervise, and i do put my dirty dishes directly into the dishwasher if it's accepting dirty dishes. But I am trying to make this a "not me" chore in our house because I do other, harder things. One of my kids is really good at sorting laundry, and they both are pretty good at using the washer. This is an area I expect to hand over to them eventually as well. 

 

This is slightly off-topic a bit with my answer (which is why I bolded the salient information, lol!), but I thought I would include a bigger picture than just how to handle toys because I find that the give and take where they have areas of responsibility that I pass of to them in return, helps my attitude quite a bit. If your situation makes this not work (or not work yet), maybe you can find your own version of a trade-off that helps to lighten the load mentally.