Working memory

[ssavings]

Are there any resources for improving working memory?

Keep in mind I'm a newbie, and while I can make manipulative that go along with a program, I'm very anxious about making my own programs...

[Crimson Wife]

There were some interesting resources shared on this thread that might be helpful: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/534462-rapid-naming-and-the-king-devick-software-anybody-know-about-this

 

Also, I'm considering the Superduper Hearbuilders program and in a year or two trying CogMed. One of the posters (OhElizabeth IIRC but I'm not positive) had researched CogMed and found that it wasn't proven effective until mid-elementary.

 

ETA: Addie Cusimano's workbooks are supposed to be good as well.

[ssavings]

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

You don't have to look far to decide on Cogmed.  They put the research on their own website, and that's where I read about the recent study of 1st graders, which is why I eliminated it as an option for my socially delayed 6yo.  For my 16, yes, that's our goal, once we finish neurofeedback, to do Cogmed.  (Assuming it's still needed.)

 

Is the working memory issue showing up alone or in connection with another skill?  Remember, that's always your gig, to get it functional.  So you want to build working memory a variety of ways, in a variety of contexts, because then it's functional across all his necessary tasks.  

 

Some of the ways that have been good for us?

-Mother May I type games with multiple steps

-A Fist Full of Coins

-digit spans

-digit spans while doing metronome

-memorization

-using EF/working memory across days (give a number or task today, asking him to remember it for tomorrow)

-tapping out the sounds very carefully in our Barton work and then spelling and using tiles (requiring you to hold all the sounds and STRETCH the working memory)

-games where they have to hold their strategy in their mind or a sequence of steps--Ticket to Ride is fabulous for this, but also Forbidden Island, etc.

 

You'll find more ways.  I figure what I don't accomplish perfectly, I accomplish in the end just by going at it so many different ways, kwim?  Are you doing Barton?  That's a really good one where you can slow down and really make them USE their working memory.  If you're using another program, again, slow it down and don't let them mask that they aren't HOLDING the sounds and thoughts and stretching.  

 

You can't go wrong with games, and really we all need an excuse to play more games with our kids.  The Bible is more important, but beyond that playing games and doing puzzles are two of the BEST things you can do with your kids through about age 12.  You tell me your problem, and I'll solve it with games.  You can improve working memory, math skills, reading skills, social skills, visual perception skills, and more all with good games.  Strategy games, real games, things that stretch them.  

[ssavings]

Nope, no Barton yet. We started LiPS this week. 

It's going both well and sloggingly simultaniously, which is pretty much what I expected. She finally identified that /p/ and /b/ are different sounds, which was an eye-opening moment for her that kind of melted my heart. But she's still doing b/d/p reversals, and we're having to do a lot of review for each set of brothers to get through. Right now we're at the point in the manual where it says to stop and review lip poppers, tip tappers, and tongue scrapers... I anticipate spending at least a few days on that until she really gets those sounds nailed down and the mouth movements sorted into their proper categories.

I bought the Addie Cusimano workbook, a one-year subscription to Hearbuilder online, and I'm looking at A Fist Full of Coins right now. :)  We're going to start digit spans (slowly)... 

[BlsdMama]

Barton is stretching our guy's working memory.  His is super low.  We are now "doing" Learning Rx - meaning I got employment there (gee, maybe that will cover the expense of OT) and am being trained to train, essentially.  It was out of our budget for a long term solution (full year or two.)

[PeterPan]

Nope, no Barton yet. We started LiPS this week. 

 

It's going both well and sloggingly simultaniously, which is pretty much what I expected. She finally identified that /p/ and /b/ are different sounds, which was an eye-opening moment for her that kind of melted my heart. But she's still doing b/d/p reversals, and we're having to do a lot of review for each set of brothers to get through. Right now we're at the point in the manual where it says to stop and review lip poppers, tip tappers, and tongue scrapers... I anticipate spending at least a few days on that until she really gets those sounds nailed down and the mouth movements sorted into their proper categories.

 

I bought the Addie Cusimano workbook, a one-year subscription to Hearbuilder online, and I'm looking at A Fist Full of Coins right now. :)  We're going to start digit spans (slowly)... 

The Kenneth Lane book on VT at home suggests a game where they do things (kinesthetically) with working memory.  For a while there I did a thing where after did his 4 "ears" sessions (what we call LIPS/Barton), we would play the working memory game as a reward.  So it might be a sequence like: clap twice, hop, pat your head, turn around.  He'd have to *repeat* it then do it.  We started low (2 things) and built up.  The last sequence would have him discovering his prize for the day.  

 

Absolutely LIPS will be building her working memory.  I would encourage you just to add *1* thing to your day each day to work on it.  I don't think digit spans, in isolation, are actually the most effective way.  They aren't really functional memory.  Functional is when you can do it with distractions, while motor planning, while using your vision, while speaking (a challenge for my ds), while...  Kwim?  That's why a game like Fist Full of Coins is so good.  Really though, that activity I described to you is getting somewhat of a similar effect.  You don't have to do EVERYTHING to make progress.  Just do something fun each day that in a sneaky way works on it.  If you play Ticket to Ride, that uses a TON of working memory.  Shake it up and make it fun, a little something each day, working in a variety of ways.  You'll see progress.   :)

 

PS.  It's a shame it's not as easy to get compliance out of a 16 yo for this stuff as it is a 6 yo.  :D

[LaughingCat]

The part about adding distractions has been key for my older dd

[prairiewindmomma]

Thanks, OhE, for chiming in as I needed a couple of those ideas!

[BlsdMama]

I have to tell you - I worked with an adult last night and REALLY didn't want to add the metronome (at 120bpm) because it just seemed overwhelming.

 

The director walked by and told me use it - even if it's hard.  I had read in the manual how vital it really is because it organizes their thinking, keeps up intensity (improves recall and retrieval) and just improves the learning overall.

 

So, I sucked it up and turned on the metronome.  I could NOT believe the difference.  I was floored.

 

So - ADD A METRONOME.

 

It takes a few days to get the hang of it, but I'm telling you - whether it's digits or just phoneme drill, a metronome makes a difference.  

[BlsdMama]

This is the one we use:

http://www.amazon.com/Qwiktime-QT3-Qwik-Time-Metronome/dp/B0002F75EM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435346384&sr=8-1&keywords=quicktime+metronome

[PeterPan]

Dude, 120 bpm is really fast!  What's up with that?  IM is done at 54 bpm.  I adjust the speed to what my ds can actually do because of his speech problems.  

[PeterPan]

This is the one we use:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Qwiktime-QT3-Qwik-Time-Metronome/dp/B0002F75EM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435346384&sr=8-1&keywords=quicktime+metronome

Hehe, I had a metronome like that in high school for piano.  :D  Now I just use a free app on the ipad.  You can change all sorts of things with it (sound, pace, accents, etc.).  There's a fun app Clapbox that is nice for variation.

 

I'm not sure anyone in my house gets more *organized* simply by adding in the metronome, so I'm interested to hear what you saw happening.  It might be a difference of age/maturity.  Definitely though, just by adding in the metronome work you're kicking in the EF part of the brain.  It's FREE for people to do with an app and it can be so powerful.

[ssavings]

We started the emory sections on the hearbuilder program, and she's really struggling. 

She passed the first level on her second try - remember three words in order when there are pictures of only those three words on the screen. Now we're on the second level, which is remembering three words in order when there are 6 pictures on the screen. It's rough for her.

I have the Fistfull of Coins game coming, a few workbooks for improving working memory, and other stuff. I'll look at adding a metronome.

This is an area we can make progress on if we're consistent in working through it, right? Even if it's just a little bit of work every day (she can't do more than 10 minutes.. even w/ LiPS, we do 2 10 minute sessions a day). 

[Jenn in CA]

Wait, what exactly do you do with the metronome?

[PeterPan]

Ssavings, how old is she?  My dd is ADHD-inattentive, and as you say with her it was all about the short sessions.  Like maybe even go shorter to see if you could get more sessions.  Like if you want to 7 minutes, could you get 3-4 sessions?  Then after a couple weeks of that try *8* minutes for 4 sessions, and so on...  Short, frequent, intense sessions are better than marathon sessions.  Or maybe take your 2 10s and add in a couple lightnings of 1-2 minutes where you just flash through something, kwim?  Maybe in your lightning you flash through half the mouth pictures or do air writing for the alphabet while saying sounds for the ones you've covered, etc.  Just thinking.

 

Your progress with Hearbuilder is interesting.  I've never used it before.  We had Earobics, which didn't seem to really help ds.  His situation is not typical, because of his speech problem.  I'm just thinking that what you're describing sounds more intriguing than I had realized as far as what skills it actually covers.  Interesting.

 

Yes, just small amounts of work will add up!  Think "nibbled to death by ducks"...  That's not original to me.  SWB said it, and I just apply it to anything where it seems to fit.  :D  Think about it.  If we bring in 3 minutes of working memory 4 times a day, we got 12 minutes in, and it was painless!  In a week that's an hour of cognitive therapy, and all we were doing was playing fun stuff for a few minutes here and there.  

 

Jenn, for the metronome work, google Heathermomster's instructions.

 

Back to something for a minute.  It may not happen with your dc, but I know with my ds whenever we try these new activities I find more holes I didn't realize we had.  So don't be surprised if that happens, that's all.  it doesn't mean you did something wrong.  It just means kids can have some more weaknesses and when we get our approach functional and start using skills across a lot of domains (speech, motor planning, etc.), we're going to start to see the glitches.

[ssavings]

Ssavings, how old is she?  My dd is ADHD-inattentive, and as you say with her it was all about the short sessions.  Like maybe even go shorter to see if you could get more sessions.  Like if you want to 7 minutes, could you get 3-4 sessions?  Then after a couple weeks of that try *8* minutes for 4 sessions, and so on...  Short, frequent, intense sessions are better than marathon sessions.  Or maybe take your 2 10s and add in a couple lightnings of 1-2 minutes where you just flash through something, kwim?  Maybe in your lightning you flash through half the mouth pictures or do air writing for the alphabet while saying sounds for the ones you've covered, etc.  Just thinking.

 

Your progress with Hearbuilder is interesting.  I've never used it before.  We had Earobics, which didn't seem to really help ds.  His situation is not typical, because of his speech problem.  I'm just thinking that what you're describing sounds more intriguing than I had realized as far as what skills it actually covers.  Interesting.

 

Yes, just small amounts of work will add up!  Think "nibbled to death by ducks"...  That's not original to me.  SWB said it, and I just apply it to anything where it seems to fit.   :D  Think about it.  If we bring in 3 minutes of working memory 4 times a day, we got 12 minutes in, and it was painless!  In a week that's an hour of cognitive therapy, and all we were doing was playing fun stuff for a few minutes here and there.  

 

Jenn, for the metronome work, google Heathermomster's instructions.

 

Back to something for a minute.  It may not happen with your dc, but I know with my ds whenever we try these new activities I find more holes I didn't realize we had.  So don't be surprised if that happens, that's all.  it doesn't mean you did something wrong.  It just means kids can have some more weaknesses and when we get our approach functional and start using skills across a lot of domains (speech, motor planning, etc.), we're going to start to see the glitches.

 

she's 6, and an immature 6. I'm going to try to build up to 4 10 minute sessions/day... I've often wondered if she's ADD, but I don't think that there's anything I could really DO about that.  

 

Hearbuilder, thus far, is far better than I expected for the price. In the working memory session, there are numerous options (remembering a series of words, remembering a series of numbers, remembering a description of a person, remembering details from a story)... as you progress, the program starts adding a 'delay' between when you hear the information and when you can answer it. 

There's also a following directions session, which appears to be similar. it goes from single step directions and progresses onward.

I haven't really begun to explore the phonemic awareness session or the sequencing a story session yet. 

 

I knew her working memory was bad.. but I'm surprised it's THIS bad, KWIM? It's really something we're going to have to work through. i'm  sure we'll find more holes as we progress..

 

 

[geodob]

Ssavings, at 6 years of age, she is still at the early stage of developing an integrated working memory.

Which typically develops over an 8 to 9 year timeline.

We actually have distinctly separate working memories associated with each of our senses.

Though auditory, spacial and visual are defined as types of 'cognitive working memory'.

As they can be used for deductive reasoning.

But each of them go through a developmental process, that is actually a 'skills acquisition' process.

With a unique set of skills, for each of our auditory, spacial and visual working memories.

That takes around 6 years to basically develop.

While we are constantly recieving a stream of information from each of these senses, that is processed in their own part of the brain.

They each have their own working memory, which firstly can be used to 'capture' information from the stream.

Which is briefly stored in short term memory,

Where multiple 'captures' can be very briefly held,

That search for instant associations in long term memory.

These 'captures' can then be recalled into their type of working memory, to create a new network of associations.

Where importantly, we can use thinking to rearrange them and form new associations.

 

Though what needs to appreciated, is that the first stage of development, involves developing the skills to use each type of working memory.

Which once established, can then move onto the developmental process of integration.

To form an integrated working memory.

Working memory is actually a dynamic integration of multiple regions of the brain.

[BlsdMama]

Dude, 120 bpm is really fast! What's up with that? IM is done at 54 bpm. I adjust the speed to what my ds can actually do because of his speech problems.

120 - every other beat! :D

 

You could do 60bpm but I think 120 is more rythmic. We go down to 108 if they struggle with the speed.

[PeterPan]

120 - every other beat! :D

 

You could do 60bpm but I think 120 is more rythmic. We go down to 108 if they struggle with the speed.

Hmm, that's interesting.  Yes, 108 but every other beat would be the 54 bpm that Heather was told to use for her IM homework.  

 

I'm just kinda struggling with this idea of only clapping, chanting, etc. with the off beats.  That would be a challenge!  Interesting.

[LaughingCat]

The pace wkbook I have does the every other beat.first or second ( I.e. Harder or easier) I can't remember and not at home to look.

 

For anyone considering metronome work - just had to add that it was extremely hard for my DD and had to be worked on its own and much easier than a metronome at first. I've plenty in other threads on that - just wanted to include here for anyone whose kid does struggle with it -- it was life changing but nothing like as easy as blsdmama says here -- it took weeks for her to be able to keep a simple beat and do an equally simple task. Still our vt place treated me like I was insane about this so probably not near so hard for the majority and still extremely effective as a distractor.

 

Although originally I attacked more in the im/heather monster way - now I use more as a distractor to cement what she I'd doing - which I think is more where blsdmama was going with it.

[PeterPan]

LaughingCat, I get it!  My ds could not even clap a single clap!!  He would hyper-clap, but he could not just slow down and clap.  We spent a long time, hand over hand, just working on basics like clap once, clap twice, clap while we say a row of the alphabet, etc.  Very slow process.  I think it reflects some serious EF issues.  It's why I'm sensitive to the idea of programs (just speaking generically here) that paint it like do our 12 things and your kid will be cured.  Some kids have to back WAY up and need a lot of help even before they're ready for the first step of their 12 steps.

[BlsdMama]

Let's be honest - when *I* started learning metronome training I couldn't clap a single clap UNLESS it was by accident.  My sense of rhythm has long been a family joke.

 

I agree with using it as a distractor, but I absolutely believe it encourages retrieval.  WHY?  Because instead of being able to stop and think about it what you want on a sandwich when ordering at a deli and the delicatessen can add one layer at a time, this is much more like ordering a sandwich from a machine in a hospital waiting room - you push the buttons and the machine must drop it instantly.  In that case you are the machine - otherwise you're the deli man - slowly and retrieving one bit of info at a time at your speed.

 

The more you work on that retrieval/recall, the stronger it gets and enables you to utilize that information (sums, number recognition, phonemes, etc.) while doing function - it frees up more space on the tray (working memory) so you can hold other things while working functions (reading, doing math, etc.)

 

That metronome is a game changer IMO.  And I can't think of anyone who would hate it more than someone who couldn't even clap on rhythm, lol, like me, but seriously, powerful tool.

[PeterPan]

That's interesting to ponder.  Thanks for explaining!  :)

[LaughingCat]

Let's be honest - when *I* started learning metronome training I couldn't clap a single clap UNLESS it was by accident.  My sense of rhythm has long been a family joke.

 

I agree with using it as a distractor, but I absolutely believe it encourages retrieval.  WHY?  Because instead of being able to stop and think about it what you want on a sandwich when ordering at a deli and the delicatessen can add one layer at a time, this is much more like ordering a sandwich from a machine in a hospital waiting room - you push the buttons and the machine must drop it instantly.  In that case you are the machine - otherwise you're the deli man - slowly and retrieving one bit of info at a time at your speed.

 

The more you work on that retrieval/recall, the stronger it gets and enables you to utilize that information (sums, number recognition, phonemes, etc.) while doing function - it frees up more space on the tray (working memory) so you can hold other things while working functions (reading, doing math, etc.)

 

That metronome is a game changer IMO.  And I can't think of anyone who would hate it more than someone who couldn't even clap on rhythm, lol, like me, but seriously, powerful tool.

 

Yes, I agree -- when I called the metronome a distractor, I meant really using it that same way -- to cement retrieval --  that I have found if something can be retrieved easily/well when distracted then it is far more easily retrieved  when not distracted.

 

I have found other things work as well (balance for example)-- but beat related is easiest with best result for my DD  (although I use ball bouncing more than metronome for beat work). 

 

(also I see auto-correct decimated my pp lol )

[MorganTrinity]

I have to tell you - I worked with an adult last night and REALLY didn't want to add the metronome (at 120bpm) because it just seemed overwhelming.

 

The director walked by and told me use it - even if it's hard.  I had read in the manual how vital it really is because it organizes their thinking, keeps up intensity (improves recall and retrieval) and just improves the learning overall.

 

So, I sucked it up and turned on the metronome.  I could NOT believe the difference.  I was floored.

 

So - ADD A METRONOME.

 

It takes a few days to get the hang of it, but I'm telling you - whether it's digits or just phoneme drill, a metronome makes a difference.

 

 

Sorry if this is a dumb question.  Do you just do exercises with a metronome going in the background?  Or do you time exercises with a metronome?

[BlsdMama]

We use the metronome to recite answers. You'd still on every other beat - like drilling phonemes, sums, differences, etc.

[LaughingCat]

Yes, the metronome is used to make the task harder by having the child follow the beat.   Perhaps I will have to rethink my use of the word distraction for this :laugh: --  it is not a distraction in the background, it is a distraction from focusing solely on whatever the task is (say math facts).  It is really doing two things at once -- the math facts and saying them on the beat.     I think of it as a distraction because part of your focus has to be on each thing -- so you don't have full brain power to bear on the math facts.

 

When DD started, the metronome itself was the hard part -- to the point where I had to make the rhythm kinesthetic (tramp first and then ball bouncing) and use a very simple task for other part (counting by ones).  Since her rhythm has improved, I have used metronome/ball bouncing/tramp work for all sorts of things that she struggles with remembering -- months, skip counting, math facts, phone number, reading words etc.  Once she can do it to a beat, it is far more cemented in her memory than without. 

 

Also, as I said above, I do other things as well -- things like having her balance on a balance board.   The other things I have tried work too -- but not as obviously.   It may be I am not hitting her sweet spot for difficulty level. 

[MorganTrinity]

Yes, the metronome is used to make the task harder by having the child follow the beat. Perhaps I will have to rethink my use of the word distraction for this :laugh: -- it is not a distraction in the background, it is a distraction from focusing solely on whatever the task is (say math facts). It is really doing two things at once -- the math facts and saying them on the beat. I think of it as a distraction because part of your focus has to be on each thing -- so you don't have full brain power to bear on the math facts.

 

When DD started, the metronome itself was the hard part -- to the point where I had to make the rhythm kinesthetic (tramp first and then ball bouncing) and use a very simple task for other part (counting by ones). Since her rhythm has improved, I have used metronome/ball bouncing/tramp work for all sorts of things that she struggles with remembering -- months, skip counting, math facts, phone number, reading words etc. Once she can do it to a beat, it is far more cemented in her memory than without.

 

Also, as I said above, I do other things as well -- things like having her balance on a balance board. The other things I have tried work too -- but not as obviously. It may be I am not hitting her sweet spot for difficulty level.

Thanks! I get this now. I've got to try this!

[ssavings]

Would this work for letter/phoneme sounds, by chance? 

[PeterPan]

Would this work for letter/phoneme sounds, by chance? 

Those you want to tackle multi-sensory, so for instance saying the sound while you trace it on a sandpaper letter.  Multi-sensory gives you enough inputs enough ways that they make connections and learn it.  Flashcards and drill are just for automaticity.  Something could look like an automaticity problem when it's really a RAN/RAS problem.  So then if you work on RAN/RAS, you improve their rate of rapid naming of the phonograms without actually drilling them on the phonograms.  And the reason you might not want to drill them on the phonograms, if it's a point of disability, is because you're wanting it to stay positive.  So to me, if the real problem is low RAN/RAS, practice your rapid naming with pictures or colored dots or numbers or something else.  My ds has no phobia about reading right now, no sense of how many disabilities he has, but we disconnect them like this.  

 

It's like when WWE came out and people were complaining about it being too hard with their particular dc, and I asked why they're connecting the disability therapy (low working memory) with a school subject (writing).  In reality, WWE is a huge working memory program.  For some kids that's within reach, no big deal, and they just do it.  For some kids it's going to cause them to hate writing, because you combined their disability with a school subject.  So I say be cautious to separate THERAPY from the school subject and make sure they don't come out hating it.  

 

That was a total rabbit trail, lol.  There are just so many OTHER ways to work on phonograms, kwim?  Use more analysis.  Group them by vowels and consonants.  If you're doing or did LIPS you can group them by how they're formed.  Use multi-sensory.  I think flashcards are probably the *least* effective way because it's easy for them not to notice components of the phonogram (how the letters are formed, which letters are there, etc.).  You can actually only memorize so many isolated pieces (sight words, etc.).  It was a pretty high limit, but still there is a limit according to the dev. optom. people.  So the more you slow it down (rather than speeding it up) and get understanding and get them noticing the parts (how it's formed, what the 2nd letter was in that phonogram, whether there's another phonogram that says the same first sound, etc.), the better.

 

That said, if your dc has no reading disability or they do but you've worked on the phonograms enough that they're already pretty solid, then fine probably wouldn't hurt.  With my dd (non-dyslexic) I drilled the phonograms with flashcards and I don't think it was either particularly helpful or particularly harmful.  In her case we should have continued multi-sensory and focused on the handwriting motor planning a lot longer.  With ds, dyslexic, we do multi-sensory because we have to get him to slow down and feel the components and notice them, not just sorta know the letters there but REALLY know what's there.  So far so good.

[ssavings]

Yeah, her rapid naming is her "most significant" weakness, per her testing. We're slogging through colored dots. 

[PeterPan]

Ok, so there you go.  Are you using my pages?  Not that you have to, but if you are what I did is offer supports and create variety.  So read a line, take a break, read another line.  Use your fingers to track for them if you have to and fade to fingers on each end of the line.  Once he could read the whole page comfortably that way, I went back and added in a VERY SLOW metronome.  But this was weeks and weeks and weeks of daily effort, kwim?  And the metronome we also built up slowly, because he couldn't do that at all.  So for that it was just clap while I touch a letter in the Lauri alphabet puzzle.  Clap when I touch the next letter.  Clap when I touch the next letter.  That was hard!  And when he could do a line like that, then go longer.  So you're using voice rhythm to bridge over to metronome, kwim?  

 

So I didn't ask him to do anything with the dots and metronome that he couldn't already do with the metronome another way, kwim?  We were also doing Focus Moves at that time, and I tried adding metronome into those once the movement was solid.  So each component skill was already good and then it was just bringing it in.

 

Back to dots.  You've probably already thought of this, but we'd read the page two different ways each session.  So maybe narrow way across and then on the diagonals.  Or wide way across and then flip the paper 180 and repeat.  And I made sure he could actually say the words.  And I bribed with stickers.  (Stickers are 6 yo currency!)  

 

I wanted to suggest that you look at your report both for RAN/RAS scores *and* word retrieval scores.  They're two different things. See if you've got issues with both or just the one or the other.  

 

Sounds like you're on-track.  Little steps...  just keep working on it... Have you had her eyes checked by a dev. optom?  You'd feel silly if part of it was that she needed glasses, kwim?  :)

[ssavings]

We only had a few tests done, I don't see word retrieval on any of them, unless it's hiding somewhere I'm not seeing it?

 

[geodob]

You wrote that: ' her rapid naming is her "most significant" weakness, per her testing.'

This can be developed with practice.

Simply using photographs with lots of things that she knows the name of.

Where you point at things, and then she names them.

If you do this for about 5 minutes a day, you will be able to observe her getting quicker and quicker at it.

What this does, is just develop a stronger and more fluent connection between the brain's visual and auditory cortexes.

 

[ssavings]

We're workin' at it!! It's so hard for her - in 80 seconds, she can only name 6-10 objects/colors. But, practice makes perfect. 

[PeterPan]

While it's that hard for her, I would stay with the simple thing of colors.  That way you're not adding any complications like articulation, word retrieval (remembering the names of the different objects), etc.  I think I included some digits pages in the dots folder on dropbox.  If you haven't tried digits, maybe try those next.  

 

Is it possible she's having tracking issues?  Does she have any articulation issues?  For the tracking, does she find it easier if you fold it in half so there are only maybe 3 dots showing in each row across?  You might try that and see what happens.  Have you had her eyes checked?  

 

When something is *unusually* hard, it's really good to make sure you're eliminating all the variables and that the thing you're assuming is the problem is the problem.  It's ALWAYS advisable to get a dc's eyes checked by a developmental optometrist.  Just a regular annual exam and asking them to screen the dev. stuff will do.  You just want to make sure there's not a vision issue or something else making this harder than it needs to be.

 

You could even make a window and cover everything on the page but the one.  You want to see if there's anything that makes this easier or if it really is that rapid naming is that hard for her, kwim?  

[ssavings]

While it's that hard for her, I would stay with the simple thing of colors.  That way you're not adding any complications like articulation, word retrieval (remembering the names of the different objects), etc.  I think I included some digits pages in the dots folder on dropbox.  If you haven't tried digits, maybe try those next.  

We've mostly been doing her colors. I'm not sure why, but on her testing they noted it was unusual that her color naming was worse than her object naming (both were really, really low, though. 1st percentile)

 

Is it possible she's having tracking issues?  Does she have any articulation issues?  For the tracking, does she find it easier if you fold it in half so there are only maybe 3 dots showing in each row across?  You might try that and see what happens.  Have you had her eyes checked?  

Certainly possible that she's having tracking issues. She has a diagnosed articulation delay, but not related to apraxia -  more likely related to her auditory/receptive language issues and her being premature. We have speech therapy going for that.  Eye exam is on the 17th.. wait lists here for the "better" docs and things are crazy. 

 

When something is *unusually* hard, it's really good to make sure you're eliminating all the variables and that the thing you're assuming is the problem is the problem.  It's ALWAYS advisable to get a dc's eyes checked by a developmental optometrist.  Just a regular annual exam and asking them to screen the dev. stuff will do.  You just want to make sure there's not a vision issue or something else making this harder than it needs to be.

we're having the full developmental vision later this month. 

 

You could even make a window and cover everything on the page but the one.  You want to see if there's anything that makes this easier or if it really is that rapid naming is that hard for her, kwim?  

We do cover the next row, so she's only seeing one row at a time. I'll try the window.  She just can't seem to find the word in her head. If she's looking at a red dot, she'll say... what's that name again? It's stuck in my head... and it'll take her a while to get it out - or I'll have to cue her. But if I asked her "point to the red dot", she could do that instantly. Very odd. 

 

[PeterPan]

So she's having word retrieval issues...  But what's curious is, she's having retrieval troubles even after she has used that word several times in the minutes preceeding?  Or is that just the first time?  Like if you review the names of the colors before you start the worksheet, how does she do?  

 

And have you discussed word retrieval with the SLP?  Did she have recommendations?

 

Word retrieval is a detailed issue.  There's a book It's On the Tip of My Tongue that goes into all different kinds.  It's good, but not really aimed at younger kids who are still receiving therapy, more on work-arounds.  Your dd is at the age where you get therapy.  The SLP should be able to dig in on a pattern to the errors and give recommendations, both for therapy and homework.  With my ds, the thing she wanted us to work on is lexicon, ie. getting all the words into the proper file folders in the brain.  

 

Google anomia and search the boards for it as well.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/304234-word-finding-difficulty/

[BlsdMama]

Yes, the metronome is used to make the task harder by having the child follow the beat. Perhaps I will have to rethink my use of the word distraction for this :laugh: -- it is not a distraction in the background, it is a distraction from focusing solely on whatever the task is (say math facts). It is really doing two things at once -- the math facts and saying them on the beat. I think of it as a distraction because part of your focus has to be on each thing -- so you don't have full brain power to bear on the math facts.

 

When DD started, the metronome itself was the hard part -- to the point where I had to make the rhythm kinesthetic (tramp first and then ball bouncing) and use a very simple task for other part (counting by ones). Since her rhythm has improved, I have used metronome/ball bouncing/tramp work for all sorts of things that she struggles with remembering -- months, skip counting, math facts, phone number, reading words etc. Once she can do it to a beat, it is far more cemented in her memory than without.

 

Also, as I said above, I do other things as well -- things like having her balance on a balance board. The other things I have tried work too -- but not as obviously. It may be I am not hitting her sweet spot for difficulty level.

Sustained divided attention, perhaps? ;)

[ssavings]

So she's having word retrieval issues...  But what's curious is, she's having retrieval troubles even after she has used that word several times in the minutes preceeding?  Or is that just the first time?  Like if you review the names of the colors before you start the worksheet, how does she do?  

 

Yes. More with specific words. "Purple" for instance, she has serious retrieval issues with. Even if she's used the word just seconds before. 

 

And have you discussed word retrieval with the SLP?  Did she have recommendations?

 

No, the SLP has been primarily focused on articulation.... I'll ask her. 

 

Word retrieval is a detailed issue.  There's a book It's On the Tip of My Tongue that goes into all different kinds.  It's good, but not really aimed at younger kids who are still receiving therapy, more on work-arounds.  Your dd is at the age where you get therapy.  The SLP should be able to dig in on a pattern to the errors and give recommendations, both for therapy and homework.  With my ds, the thing she wanted us to work on is lexicon, ie. getting all the words into the proper file folders in the brain.  

 

Google anomia and search the boards for it as well.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/304234-word-finding-difficulty/