Breaking work down into manageable chunks vs. being overwhelmed and unable to function.

[dsmith]

I'm not sure how to work with ds on this issue, and it has been a constant one with school and now with work. He just started working with his dad in our company, and dh asked him to put labels on some large postcards, while other cards need to be put in envelopes and then have address labels added. Some of the cards need return address labels on them, and all of the pieces will need stamps. If you look at the table in our basement it is covered with piles of cards that have sheets of address labels on top of them, other piles that have envelopes next to them and labels on top, and a few piles that have return address labels as well as address labels. Ds can't look at this pile and figure out where to start. He can only see the piles all together and feels overwhelmed, unable to choose a pile to start with even. This is the kid that when given a sheet filled with math problems became so overwhelmed that he would jump all over the sheet, skipping some, missing the beginning or end, etc. and eventually get so frustrated that he would rip it up. I guess this is an executive functioning issue? With math I started giving him half sheets at a time with certain problems highlighted, and that would be ok, but I don't really want to be micromanaging his work, kwim? I have my own work that I am often behind on. :sad:

[Starr]

Hand him one pile at a time. Maybe there is too much on the table just like too many problems on a piece of paper. 

[Lecka]

Can you make labels and boundaries for the different stacks, and then move the piles into the proper stacks?  

 

Can you have an example with each section, or a list that says "here is what to do now?"

 

I think you need to try to break it down for him in some way.  Maybe he could have his own table, and take one stack to his table at a time, so that he is not "seeing" all that there is to do.  

 

I think you can try things like this -- templates of directions, labels, dividing the space, etc.  

 

But I think you also might need to think about him having a different job or a different responsibility.  If there is another option for him, that might help a lot, too.  

 

I do also think, you might need to devote some time to working out a system with him, and gradually doing less and less with him.  That may be what is realistic.  

 

Expecting him to teach himself or learn on the job does not sound like it is realistic, so I think that means reality is -- try to hold his hand for a bit, but also try to set up systems he can follow, and try to reduce the help he needs.  

 

I also think ----- and this is how I am ------ I think you might set out an amount that is reasonable to do in one day or one time period.  If it is a never-ending shuffle, then that would overwhelm a lot of people.  Giving people chances to feel like "hey, I got my stack done, good for me" is part of being a good manager, imo.  I have had times when it seems like "well, it will never be finished, so I might as well take my time."  That is my response to having a never-ending pile, but when I have an amount I can finish, I do a lot better.  This is something I know about myself, so I try to make things go this way for me.  But if your son can't organize that for himself, it might help if you organize that for him, and just consider it part of having an employee that you want to keep, b/c I do think good employers and managers do think about things like this and make the effort.  

[FairProspects]

Um, that would overwhelm *me*.  I am generally missing the organizational gene (which I credit to my fabulous creativity, of course).

 

I would also hand him a pile at a time or help him make a list/mind map of steps. In our house, the lack of breaking down into steps is due to the dysgraphia. This is one of the ways dysgraphia can manifest (but there are probably other reasons too). Once I help ds's get organized though they usually blow me away with what they can accomplish. They can see the big picture and have very interesting ideas - they just can't get from the start to the finish without some organizational help.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Read Smart but Scattered and ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life.  Doesn't matter if anyone is ADD or Smart but Scattered.  Those books might help you understand where the disconnect is and how to address it, not just for this project but for the long term.

 

Best wishes.

[Citrusheights5]

Can you color code the area? We have a large Ikea table (the extra long one)that we have devided in half with a large line of duct tape. one side has a large plus sign and each area is a different color, and on the other half is his work area. We use this is many ways. I can say go do the red things.. and he will get the items from the red area and take it to his side and work on it and put it back.then he can work the system one chuck at a time.and then stamps on the last, so that once all quadrants aRe done, all can get postage.

Some times I will flow work from one area to another. All labels is one,quadrant, inserts,another, all envelopes in another, and all postage is the last and so he can know each needs to be in each completed item. I'm trying to color code because I believe it is something my son can use at any job site without too much disturbance. My son has internalized a color patern, red blue green yellow. That is top left, bottom left,top right, bottom right.

 

Point is to come up with a system that he can use that will not impact others overly much. But you will have to teach him the system. Great books have been sugested, but you really have to find out where the break down is and determine a way for him to overcome that breakdown.

[dsmith]

Thanks for all the replies! So he totally shocked me this afternoon. This pile has been sitting there since yesterday morning untouched with ds complaining about it being too much work. I talked briefly with him again after I posted here, about grabbing a pile at a time, but I've been very hesitant to get involved. I really want him to go to his dad with this stuff. During dinner (he ate earlier) he suddenly sat at the end of the table with one pile, asked me to time him on my iPad, and then did three more piles. In 25 minutes he got through a third of the work and decided to take a break. He says he will do the rest at 9 pm.

 

I guess one of the things that was really bothering me about this situation is all the complaining and whining has been to me, not dh. The other work he has been doing is very technical involving servers and checking backups, and dh has him filling out log sheets, so it is very methodical. That has been going well and he seems to enjoy it. I admit the pile looked daunting to me, and I find clutter and unorganized work very distracting. I joke that dh is my brain and helps me figure out where to start with overwhelming projects, so I know where ds is coming from. But I also feel that he is leaning on me too much, which is why I want to be hands-off on this. School has been very difficult with this kid and independence in many areas, not just education, has been hard to attain. I will look into the books recommended and definitely check if dysgraphia may be playing a role in this. He does have it, but I've never thought that it may relate to executive functioning, but I guess that makes sense. Anyway, if anyone has made it through this rambling reply, I would appreciate any additional insight.

[kbutton]

It sounds like he's trying to wrap his head around the stress of the job and this task in particular. He made his peace with it, and then he just did it. My ASD kiddo is like that. And complaining isn't always complaining--it  can be thinking out loud. It can be anticipating change, It can be dealing with something. It can be blowing off steam and looking for feedback without really knowing how to ask. He might not be sure what to ask, and so talking it out will elicit something potentially helpful to him that might ring a bell. But once he's sure he can do it, he just does it.

 

And by stress, I mean the adjustment to new responsibility, new tasks to be diligent about, new routines, etc. It's a lot to process for many people. You can get a kind of a high with the success and also be edgy because it's all still new. 

 

If you have been his primary educator, it will take time for him to learn to go to his dad. It's also a boy thing to not want to look foolish in front of dad. My kids will also tell me that sometimes they know my husband will react first and think later--that's not terribly unusual for dads. They do tend to make quick decisions that can put off a kid that is uneasy about something without realizing it. They don't necessarily think they'll get an easier answer from me--more that they'll get a more nuanced one, lol!

 

I do think that if you can take time with some new tasks and talk to him, he might be able to talk himself through them. Esp. if you have a finished product for an example. I totally get the overwhelm. When my son was little, he wouldn't eat if his plate was too full even though he had and still has an enormous appetite (very high metabolism). If we gave him small amounts of food at a time, he'd plow through and ask for more, more, more. 

[Lecka]

Sometimes the beauty of making a template, is that you can start re-directing to the template.  

 

Like -- he comes and whines "it is too much work blah blah" and you can just say "go look at your list, you know what to do."  

 

I mean, it is not perfect, but if he basically has a good attitude but is overwhelmed, which is what it sounds like, then it is a possibility for helping him to be more independent.  

 

If you have gotten into a dynamic that is not working anymore, then I think you CAN set limits by having a response you give, and then you re-direct him (to his dad, to the list) after you have talked about something once already.  

 

You can also, if this might work, just *go somewhere else* sometimes, so that maybe he will figure it out with your husband and not you, or figure it out himself.  Or you can *suddenly be busy* and need him to make an effort for about an hour (or whatever) and then you will come check on him and help him if he needs help.  

 

I do think you should think about:  is this *really* a continuation of the same troubling dynamic from high school?  If it is, what can change about your relationship and how often you are called on to play this role?  Are there areas where you can step back?  Are there areas where he still needs help but maybe could be helped by someone besides you, or where with some time investment he could be more independent, or you could make a plan for how you will send him to other resources and/or teach him to use other resources for help?  

 

And then, if it is not, then I think you should step back and really try to think of him as a high school graduate, and try to spend time thinking about how he "used to" do some things in high school, but now he "is not doing them anymore."  Spend some time venting.  Spend some time praying.  It sounds like it was a hard, stressful time, which I can TOTALLY believe, and maybe you didn't have a lot of options for sending him to public school or to do various things, which I can also TOTALLY believe.  AND, get a break somehow.  Or get a lot of breaks.  I think taking breaks can go a long way.  And, feeling like it is not all on your shoulders.  It sounds like too much is on your shoulders, maybe, and I think you need to look for options.  And, I think you may have to set boundaries, too.  But sometimes the easiest way to set a boundary for me is to just be unavailable or gone.  

 

If you are afraid to be gone or unavailable, b/c of bad things that have happened in the past..... if it is very long ago, maybe it is time for another try.  If it has not been long but things did not go well, then I think it is time to look for help some more.  If volunteer work in an option (and I understand it may not be) then if he was doing volunteer work with someone/someplace where he could see that he could do some things without your help, or ask someone for help besides you, then that might be helpful, too.

 

Also, keep in mind that asking for help is a really stereotypical problem with ASD.  So -- if you want him to have this skill of "asking people besides mom for help" ----- if this is what he is doing, and not just venting to you (in which case -- I am more in favor of boundaries/not always being available to be vented to)..... then that might mean going all the way back to "sometimes we need to ask other people for help, it is normal, this is how you do it."  I think there is stuff like this at socialthinking.com.  I am not familiar with their stuff for teens and adults, but I know they have a teen and adult section, and this is the kind of thing they have.  

 

I really do think that he is old enough, though, you can have boundaries of "this is not a good time for me, I can talk to you later" and things like that.  I don't think you need to become super-strict this way.  But if right now he is coming to you and it is bothering *you* then I think something needs to change.  And just knowing that you can say "hey, this time I am busy," even if 75% of the time you may be ready -- I think that goes a long way mentally.  I also think if he is re-hashing things -- and his only method of rehashing things -- is to come and vent to you -- and that is stressful to you or it seems like it is something you are ready to put it in the past (since you have been doing it a long time)....... then maybe if you are less available he will develop some different coping skills.  Maybe you have an idea for some coping skills (or you set him up with coping routines that you direct him to do ----- you could have a list of things for him to do, or other options he has, that you go over, and if you know he is capable of them, you can re-direct him to do those things when you are busy) b/c maybe he won't just suddenly cope on his own ------ but I don't think that means you cannot get to a better place than you are at now, wrt this kind of thing.  

 

But otoh ----- if this only comes up when he has something new to do ----- then I think that is something where, maybe this is just how it is when there is something new, and it is reasonable that he needs the extra help.  But you get to have the extra help happen in a way that works for you, if he is bothering you with complaining, you have a right not to be bothered excessively.  

 

But remember when you want to change a behavior:  there are several sides to it.  A  necessary side is providing/teaching/allowing a replacement/alternative behavior.  What is the alternative behavior you want him to have?  "just figure it out" is a nice idea but let's say it is not realistic.  Then moving on to Plan B -- my ideas are:  tell him to ask for help from other people, or set him up with a template/list/organizational system.  You also need your son to have a motivation.  He may not be motivated if you are always available and that is working out fine for him.  Then you also need him to like the new system b/c it works for him.  

[dsmith]

Thanks for the additional insight kbutton and Lecka. He had another difficult day but last night we sat together and worked out a system that seemed to help. We put down 4 different colors of 18" construction paper and separated one stack of cards, envelopes and the two different labels on each color. I also talked over with dh about the card pile - he had about 100 extra cards on the pile, so it was actually 45 cards that needed to be addressed, etc. Once we reduced the pile and separated it he was able to do the job. I don't think I made it clear, but he is still in school. He hasn't been able to do much school since he started working, but hopefully after a transition period he will be able to handle more. I'm also realizing dh doesn't quite understand what ds may find overwhelming in a working environment as he rarely gets involved in our homeschool. He does more of the hands-on type things, like taking computers apart or building a garden bed, which ds has always done well with. Dh is also one of those people that has clutter all over his desk and it doesn't bother him. :001_smile: Well, at least this experience has been a bit of an eye-opener for dh while I've been able to see other areas where he may have difficulties in the future.