Dyslexia, Bible reading, music, and church

[PeterPan]

I don't know if this is a rant or an ask, sorry.

 

1. I think ds is finally reading enough that I need to start thinking through Bible apps.  Is your take that a Bible *app* is to be preferred to a printed Bible?  What I think I need is an app that can read it or let him read or do immersion (highlighting) and have a fast Go To menu.  And do all that without being online.   

 

2. Why are people grouching about a simple request like wanting the music list, even just *1* of the songs, two weeks ahead??  All I want is for my gifted dyslexic, apraxic, everything else-ic to get to learn the songs ahead so that he even RECOGNIZES them, even though he can't sing.  Is that too much to ask?

 

3. Will using a technology Bible set him apart oddly or ostracize him?  Should we just let it be the cool thing?  I just have extreme reservations about handing him a print Bible, making it look like that's the "real" way, and then saying oh because you're broken and defective here's this other Bible on audio/e-reader.

 

4. Am I correct in my guess/assumption that a print Bible is never likely to be a fast medium for him?

 

5. Is there anything else I should be doing to head off problems?

 

6. On a total side note, if your dc had no melody and spartan little ability to sing and you did music therapy for it, how long did it take to get some breakthroughs?  It seems like everything I do with him ends up needing more steps and more time.  He eventually gets there, but what takes everyone else 2 weeks takes him months or a year.  I need to make a choice in a month or so on whether to pay for some music therapy myself for the time when I don't have enough funding through the scholarship or to just wait and start 2nd semester.  My main motivation for the music therapy is because he literally can't sing and can't connect with his community in the church.  A church service is half music, therefore in a few years he's going to become uncomfortable and realize he has no place.  At least that's my fear.  And if that means putting up money for music therapy so he can make his voice go up and down and hear sounds, learning to read the songs ahead, etc., we need to do it.

 

What I'm doing right now is trying some techniques from MIT (melodic intonation therapy) where they chant music while tapping on their left hand.  Apparently that engages the right side of the brain where the music is and has the bonus of working on rhythm.  He seems to have taken to it.  We've been working on two simple children's choruses for two weeks now, where he reads, sings/chants (I sing, he gets it out as he can) and taps, and he's now to to the point with those two where he will volunteer.  So I think we can make progress in this.  

 

I guess the answer is obvious on that one--it's going to take a while, sigh.  On the plus side, he's charming to work with.  If the MT will let me sit in on sessions, I can learn and carry the techniques over at home.  The lady I found through the autism charter is AWESOME.  I have no doubt of her ability to handle him.  

 

7. That brings up another question.  Can a dyslexic learn to make music on an instrument?  The MT plays guitar.  If ds took a shining to her, could a guitar actually be doable for a dyslexic?

 

[PeterPan]

Here's a video on melodic intonation therapy.  It seems to be powerful with him as a way to slow him down, help him feel rhythm, help him get the words to rhythm.  The therapy is to use music to recover speech in stroke victims with praxis, but I'm trying to use it the opposite direction, to use speech to develop music.  

 

Melodic Intonation Therapy Demonstration - YouTube

[OneStepAtATime]

Can dyslexics learn to play an instrument? Of course. DH plays drums, piano and trumpet, just as an example.

 

Can they learn to sing? I'm fairly certain that has far less to do with dyslexia and much more to do with whether they were born with the ability to sing.

 

I can sing. My brother cannot. He is not dyslexic. He just cannot carry a tune in any way, shape or form. He also has no rhythm. My dad couldn't sing either. Had nothing to do with being dyslexic.

 

Would music therapy help? Possibly. My brother and father never had music therapy so I have no idea whether it would have helped. I guess it depends on the underlying causes for your son's challenges. With my brother I strongly suspect he is tone deaf. I don't think music therapy could truly "fix" that, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

As for the bible, if he could use his kindle maybe that would be a good thing. DS ended up hating Sunday School because when he moved to the 4th/5th grade class the teacher insisted that everyone read from these tiny print bibles. Between the heterophoria and the dyslexia he just couldn't. She didn't want the kids using a different version and was adamant. We had to pull him out.

 

I do hope your church is willing and able to get you music lists ahead of time.

[Lecka]

Honestly I think you have got a young 6-year-old who is making wonderful progress in reading ----- I think it is way to soon to assume anything about how he will read print.  

 

But, I also think, there is nothing "othering" about technology at this point.  It is just cool.  Lots of people at my church are bringing their Kindle to read the Bible.  It is nice b/c it has the larger print when needed, and it has the dictionary feature.  I think that is enough of a reason.  I don't think it has an implication of "you can't read."  

 

I also think, to be honest, if you want a young 6-year-old to have greater access to the Bible ------- well, who wouldn't want that?  How many 6-year-olds have a reading level such that they can sit and read passages from the Bible?  Ime that is not very many kids.  

 

They are children in Kindergarten and in 1st grade.  They are reading little-kid Bibles if they are reading anything, and the Zondervan easy-reader Bible we have at our church is really basic (my kids have not used it but some families use it when it is right for them, the church has several copies).  

 

But really -- just say you want your son to have access to the Bible, if that is what you want.  

 

And then -- it is not like it is either/or, that if you are giving him access to the Bible now, then he will NEVER read from print fluently.  It is just like --- here are two separate things, they do not have bearing on each other.

 

If you were saying "so should I stop Barton b/c I have read the Ben Foss book and I am afraid my son may never have the same facility with print as a non-dyslexic child" then I would say "that is crazy."  But that is not what you are saying.  There is really no need to worry about that with a 6-year-old who is making rapid progress with Barton. 

 

Also, my older son had a big leap last year and he scored in the 93rd percentile on MAP reading comprehension.  He may never do it again, as he does not have consistent scores, but he did it this time.  This is even though he still got lower scores (like low 90s) on the word-reading parts of his neuropsych testing.  It means he is not doing that as well as other kids his age, but it doesn't seem like it is holding him back.  And I know for a fact, age-for-age he was behind where your son is now, at the same age.  

 

But I also think, kids have different things going on, and maybe your son will be one where he may not use print so much.  But that is just b/c there are no guarantees in life.  

 

But that should not have anything to do with either providing or withholding Bible apps.  

 

I would ask his Sunday School teachers before sending him in, though, just to check with them.  I think it could be something where during Sunday School the teacher controls it b/c it could be a distraction to other kids who think it is for playing games or who want to see it.  If he was at a school then kids would get used to this (they get used to kids who carry iPads just fine at my kids' school) but it is different when kids are in school every day and there is a lot of consistency and worth it to spend a few days teaching kids how to behave wrt "some kids have iPads" and I don't think that may be fair to expect of a Sunday School teacher who is trying to have kids that only come for an hour a week and who are young.  

 

I also think that the norm for this age is "kids cannot read the Bible" so I do not think he will stand out or miss out for just an hour or two a week.  If you are there with him then I think it is different.

 

I also would worry about it coming across like "he has this fancy tech gadget, but not all the families in the church are going to be able to buy a fancy tech gadget for their 6-year-old" and I think that is something to avoid.  

 

If he was older to where I felt like "he needs this" then I would think "he needs it."  But I don't see how he needs it at his current age when I can't imagine that the children are expected to read during Sunday School.  

 

There are also people at my church who read the Bible on their smart phones.  This I think there used to be a bit of "it looks like people are texting or surfing the Internet!" but then I think after a little time we all realize "they are just that young adult age that does everything on their phones, but they are really looking up Bible verses."  There is a high school girl who comes into adult Sunday School sometimes and she uses her phone, and we all see that she is just looking up Bible verses -- I think that has gone a long way in this area.  She can also go to a thing where it lets her look up a Bible verse in multiple translations, and she has done this a few times, b/c sometimes it can help to make sense of a Bible verse that seems like it could have two different meanings.  

 

So anyway -- that is what I have seen.  I do not think this high school girl has any sense that the print version of the Bible is "the real way."  But our pastor has also talked about "is something lost when we have so many ideas for accessing the Bible, are we losing something by making it so easy and on-the-go?"  But it is one of those things, we gain from it even if we may lose from it also.  And we can make a point to read a print Bible, too.  She ended up kind-of saying "if you are taking the Bible for granted by just searching for verses, and you are not really studying the Bible, then you should probably make a point to spend some time with a print Bible."  But she also thought it was nice to have it be accessible in other ways. 

[PeterPan]

Hmm, that's interesting.  I'm googling tone deafness, and it says it applies only to music.  His issue with sound is affecting his intonation and prosody too, both in reading and speech, but that's probably the ASD thing (flat affect and prosody per the ps SLP).  My google fu is saying what you're saying, that tone deafness affecting only speech is pinpointed in a certain part of the brain, affects only music (not prosody/intonation), is genetic, and may respond to therapy.  His goes farther, so that he can't even read a sentence in Barton and give it correct intonation.  We have a problem, Houston.   :lol:   Also, he *can* hear and recognize songs, which the article is saying tone deaf won't do.

 

I have no clue what that means, just saying it's interesting to ponder.

[OneStepAtATime]

Hmm, that's interesting.  I'm googling tone deafness, and it says it applies only to music.  His issue with sound is affecting his intonation and prosody too, both in reading and speech, but that's probably the ASD thing (flat affect and prosody per the ps SLP).  My google fu is saying what you're saying, that tone deafness affecting only speech is pinpointed in a certain part of the brain, affects only music (not prosody/intonation), is genetic, and may respond to therapy.  His goes farther, so that he can't even read a sentence in Barton and give it correct intonation.  We have a problem, Houston.   :lol:   Also, he *can* hear and recognize songs, which the article is saying tone deaf won't do.

 

I have no clue what that means, just saying it's interesting to ponder.

Interesting.  My brother reads but he reads with a monotone.  Even when he speaks it is more monotoneous.  He can hear music and loves music but when he "sings" there is no real change in tone and he has trouble with the beat.  It can be louder or softer, but there really isn't a note change and he can get off on the rhythm pretty quickly.

 

ETA: I just assumed he must be tone deaf.  I have no idea what the real cause is.  I never researched it.   Mom and i always knew at church we were going to sit in the very back so when Dad and Bro "sang" they didn't throw off the whole congregation.   :lol:

[PeterPan]

Well that's interesting!  I'll just let the MT sort it out, lol.  Sounds like this could be a long haul.  And, as you say say, if it's something that inherent, it's not going to be an easy or quick thing to improve if it can be improved.  I just think it can be, me in my own gut.  

 

Lecka, that's an interesting analysis.  My reasoning is bringing into accessible for him things that are appropriate to his age.  You've cautioned me about not letting him get shoved down because of disabilities, and this is something his sister could do at the same age (sit in church with a Bible).  Lightning progress, probably not, lol.  He can read an isolated sentence.  He's overwhelmed by anything longer right now, even if it's fully decodable.  I'm working on it, but that's slow going.  So my theory was to find an app that has a super easy go to function, so he could hear the reference, hit the labels and go to, and then follow along with a single sentence.  

 

It's a little crazy maybe, but I found the Good News Bible app, which has a lovely interface.  I'm going to try it out.  I'm not sure if I can change the font in it or just the size.  I think, like you're saying, that it's not going to be one app with a permanent solution but more of a process of exploring tools.  He enjoys reading single sentences, and I think it would enhance his enjoyment of the service, his independence, and his ability to participate (rather than being relegated to quiet play).  It's within reach for him and is a step of maturity for him, therefore it seems reasonable to do.  It would also help with comprehension, because the GNB uses dynamic equivalence (thought for thought), making some of the language MUCH easier to comprehend.

 

You're right about the SS teacher problem, hadn't thought through that.  This is probably going to require a separate device and some serious controls.  I haven't figured it out yet.  He's too used to playing on his kindle to take that into church.  I think it has to be an ipad that is dedicated pretty tightly to educational stuff and serious stuff.  That way he doesn't go oh, play time.  Also, I'm not sure whether on any of the devices I can lock down particular apps.  I can turn off apps entirely, but I'm not sure about particular apps.  I know android can do user accounts, but I'm not willing to do that.  We're pretty tightly in the apple eco system and kindle is as far as I'm going.  Hate android tabs with a passion.  I also think that would do nothing for self-control.  

 

You're right, I hadn't thought through how people would perceive it.  I think there's a coming out of the closet element too.  We've never actually flat up told him he's dyslexic.  We tell him he's AWESOME.  

[Heathermomster]

OhE, My church has an orchestra.  For the players to be prepared, the bulletins are emailed one week in advance containing the music.   Any member can opt to be on the email list.  Also, the bulletin is posted online ahead of the sermon.  We sometimes practice the hymns at home.  A good friend teaches her young children all of the doxologies and responsive singing ahead of time.  The first 15-20 minutes of children's Sunday school are dedicated to singing hymns...not catchy FM praise tunes, but hymns from the Trinity Psalter. 

 

DS played trumpet 5th-8th grades.

 

As far as Bible goes, who cares what it looks like when your child reads the Bible?  And exactly how much reading are kids his age actually doing while the preaching is going on?  I may open my Bible but mainly listen.  Even in Sunday school, not all students read aloud.  We never call upon a student that struggles to read.  My church purchased straight up ESV Bibles for every Sunday school student at our church.  The Bibles are kept at the Church with the SS teachers, but every student gets a Bible during Sunday school that is opened and in front of them whether they can read it or not.  The kids love them.  

 

DH uses an ESV Bible app but believe there needs to be Internet access.  I will need to check.  The app has a listen option but no immersion.  DS uses the One Year Bible Online study plan to read/listen.

 

I don't know how to sum this up.  DS reads/listens to Bible through the week for about 30 minutes per day. DS does that because he learns best that way, and I don't care how it looks because at the end of the day his comprehension is what matters.  Bible reading is a tough anyways.  I would expect any Church body to be thrilled that their kids studied scripture at all.  

 

As to the music, you should be able to know the hymns one week ahead of time.  I just can't see the difficulty in that.  Maybe ask the music minister and deal directly with him/her.

[PeterPan]

I just wanted to continue this thought about not telling him he's dyslexic.  I haven't told him, because honestly I thought it would sabotage his efforts.  I tell him it's hard for some people and I'm sorry it's hard.  I tell him ear reading and eye reading are equivalent and he can do what works for him.

...

And I'll be hanged if someone is going to tell my top of the charts, 99th percentile vocabulary child that he's so disabled that he can't interact with words, kwim?  If he does it a different way and doesn't do the parts other people think are important (like spelling or text reading or whatever), I don't care.  I KNOW he has stuff inside.

 

So that's kind of sticky, but that's where it's at.  He has such great pleasure in his budding decoding skills and what he's piecing together, I tell him he's AWESOME.  That's all I ever tell him.  And if he has to go in public and say "My mom says I read with an e-Bible" and people have to get over their narrow-ish-ness, then oh well.  Because I'd rather have him be dyslexic and enthused about reading a single verse than NT and not giving a rip like most kids.  

[MysteryJen]

For Bible study, we used a combo of kindle text to speech and a large print Bible. We are Catholic, so we just did "follow along" with the readings and responses. Honestly, daily Mass for a year or so helped quite a lot. The music thing is interesting. Dd1 had/has huge problems with reading music, but can learn songs well with repetition. So clearly going to the same mass with the same music for responses has been huge.

What has helped her the most, honestly, is listening to pandora. She likes to listen to the same songs over and over. It drives her sister nuts, but she likes to learn the words and sing along. Her singing is better and it has helped her memorization skills.

 

Now that I am thinking about it, we used the kindle to read. Looking up verses was a separate skill and was practiced completely apart from reading.

[Heathermomster]

The focus in DD's SS class has been Bible memory, not Bible reading.  At this age, it is assumed that these kiddos are in the process of learning to read.  Maybe request a copy of the memory verses ahead of time and work on those.  That is what DD's SS class does because there are at least two dyslexics and another child with APD/expressive language disorder in her class.  My DD has no clue that there are kids with SLDs in her SS classroom.

 

 

[FairProspects]

We attend a church that is very small and "old school". We requested a separate meeting with the pastor to discuss some barriers we found that hindered the boys' participation in Sunday School (this was after observing and offering to help out). Our boys' class had required reading aloud from the Bible in a Round Robin style. We explained why that would be stressful for a dyslexic and requested that the reading aloud be limited to those who volunteered rather than required for each child. We also requested that the expectations for behavior be clearly explained, as well as reviewed aloud and posted on the wall before any disciplinary measures were taken (our boys were constantly getting in trouble because expectations were not clearly stated & varied based on the teacher's mood). Our pastor was very understanding, implemented the changes, and our boys have not had further problems. But...we did have to get very involved and explain explicitly why some of the current practices were difficult for dyslexic/SPD/ADHD kids. I think sometimes if there isn't a lot of experience with these types of students then pastors & volunteer teachers don't realize how limiting their practices are.

[Plink]

Two weeks is unreasonable for many worship teams because they change songs last minute. Also, leading is a thankless and time consuming job. I'm not sure that the leader would want to take on the task of weekly e-mails on top of their other duties. Ask to attend the worship rehearsal, and listen along there rather than adding to the volunteer's to-do list.

 

As to using tech in church - go for it. It is becoming more and more popular. We use Bible Gateway online.

[Plink]

Oh, one more thing:

Informing a child of their medical diagnosis isn't sabotaging them, pointing out their "brokenness," or halting their progress, it is being truthful. The truth is not something to fear. It is freeing.

[FairProspects]

Our church absolutely would NOT allow a digital Bible in SS. It would be too much of a distraction to students and I do understand that. Adults use them all the time in service and I let the boys use a Kindle when we sit in the main service, but there is just too much of a temptation with other students and all the fun electronic options to allow them in SS. I think you do need to be flexible about that or not have him attend SS. We decided that our boys were learning enough from SS that even if they did not read aloud from their print Bibles and merely followed along as others read that the experience was worth them attending.

[Lecka]

I think in our church, it would be possible in the 3rd-and-up Sunday School, but depending on what the teacher said.  For 2nd and under -- I think it would be difficult for a teacher to manage.  And then you want it to go well in practice -- and I think it would be hard to get that result.  This is like -- maybe something you want to take on.  But I would expect it to be difficult in logistical ways.  

 

If it is for him to be occupied while he is with parents -- I think anything you want to do along these lines is fine.

 

There is really no expectation of reading in our Sunday School for the younger age group.  

 

I would only ask for it if it was something I saw as a necessity for participation -- not something that is more of a nice extra.  I see this as a nice extra as far as "I want him to have it during Sunday School."  

 

I also, honestly, think you have to be aware that it can depend on the situation, but giving a child an electronic device can go two ways.  One way ---- they isolate themselves with the device b/c they can play with it and not have to join in the group as much.  But the other way -- they can use it in a way where they are showing things to other kids, and it helps them to be part of the group.  

 

There is a great deal that has to be intentional with electronic devices, and a lot of conscious decisions adults make to make it go the second way more, where it is like "hey, why don't you show the other kids this thing on your iPad" and things like that.  If it is that kind of situation.  And, I am not sure that this it that kind of situation, and then if it is, it will take a lot of effort on your part to make this happen most likely.  

 

But if you are thinking of it just wrt reading -- then it is not this kind of thing.  But a lot of things with iPads in general are this kind of thing.  

 

So overall -- if it is while he is with you, I think go for it.  If he is in Sunday School, my feeling is -- when he is a little older, I think it would be very manageable logistically, b/c other kids would be more mature and have longer attention spans.  But while he is young enough that a lot of kids are not reading, I do not think he is missing anything.

 

I would personally not be happy with a K-1st Sunday School where children of this age were expected to read and read aloud -- it is just not what I think this age group needs to be doing.  I mean -- sure the Bible verse can be written and the teacher can hold it up ----- but do kids need to read it?  I don't think so.  And for the rest of the stories -- at ours, the teachers reads to the kids, and sometimes shows an animated clip from youtube.  The only reading kids do is, if they are able to, they can choose to read a Zondervan kids Bible during the time they are in the adult service, but they can also color pages of Bible scenes, or they can look at board books or picture books about the Bible.  And really the kids who are reading are few in number.  

 

Maybe this just has to do with the norms for our town, though.  Kids are really not expected to actually read in Kindergarten here.

[PeterPan]

I clearly had not through this completely.  :D   

 

Well I'm bummed because I'm not finding my DREAM app.  He really liked the NIVLive app, which highlights sentences as it reads.  The audio is particularly nice on it.  He said he'd listen, memorize, then go back and try to read along, lol.  I had hoped to find something with word level highlighting, but the best I can find is sentence.  And even then, your choices are limited when you say you want it to work offline, sigh.  

 

The Olive Tree Bible Study app has the dyslexia font but no audio, even unsynchronized.  The font looks AWESOME in Olive Tree, so that would be a really good way to read in church.

 

I need to see if I can turn off individual apps on the kindle or on an ipad.  What may happen is at some point I configure a device just for educational purposes, with no entertainment apps at all.  That way the whole issue of trying to play Goat Simulator (hehe) in church would be a moot question.  I totally agree that it could be an issue with a younger child.  Dd has used an ebible on her ipad for years, and I never asked anyone's opinion.  Unfortunately, I'm not a very good team player on things like that.  ;)  

[FairProspects]

I think part of the consideration for us is that I'm fairly confident that the youth group SS (7th+) would allow digital Bibles with self-control and discretion, so I also see this as somewhat of a temporary issue. Plus, I do want the boys to get familiarity with using a print Bible, so as long as they are not forced to read aloud from the tiny print, it just isn't a big issue for us. My boys are pretty good at following along with print from all the immersion reading that they have done. At home they mostly read the Brick Bible or I read aloud from the NASB.

[Maus]

Would a large print bible be too unwieldy for him?  I only recently learned DD10 is dyslexic, but for both of older kids (DS12 is not dyslexic), if I knew what they would be reading aloud, I printed it out for them in extra large font.  That seemed to help.

 

For the music, if you could locate recordings of the hymns and play them often, that would provide familiarity.  In our faith, there is a traditional once a year service where the children sing the whole program.  They choose that music months in advance and often provide a CD with all the songs they will be singing.  When they don't, I make one.  I put it in the car's CD player so that it is the default music whenever we are in the car.

[PeterPan]

I think part of the consideration for us is that I'm fairly confident that the youth group SS (7th+) would allow digital Bibles with self-control and discretion, so I also see this as somewhat of a temporary issue. Plus, I do want the boys to get familiarity with using a print Bible, so as long as they are not forced to read aloud from the tiny print, it just isn't a big issue for us. My boys are pretty good at following along with print from all the immersion reading that they have done. At home they mostly read the Brick Bible or I read aloud from the NASB.

Hold it, how did I not know about this?  What a hoot!!!

 

So you're saying immersion reading with OTHER books (because I can't seem to find an immersion reading Bible for kindle, not any version, not with word by word highlighting) carries over and gives them the boost to be comfortable when thrown into the print?  Interesting.

[PeterPan]

Would a large print bible be too unwieldy for him?  

Hmm, hadn't really thought about it.  I'll keep the idea in mind.  The Olive Tree Bible Study app has the dyslexia font on the ipad, but it turns out that font is NOT on the kindle version.  However one of the fonts is relatively clear and relatively good sized when you crank it up.  I think what might work (I tried it and it does work) is to put JUST that app into a Freetime account.  That way, when he's plugged in there the ONLY thing he'd be able to do is whatever we put into that Freetime account.  Bummer is, I can't figure out how to have one passcode for the freetime access and another at the lock screen.  It seems like it's the same for both, not separate passcodes.  I'm not having a brilliant moment there.  

 

If I get a little more brilliant and get that figured out, then I have a solution.

[Tokyomarie]

I think it's great for you to be exploring options for your son to read/listen to the Bible in digital format to see what works best at this time. In general, people are using technology more and more for their Bible reading. My dh uses a Bible app on his phone. I have a Bible on my Nook app on my iPad. (I use both the Nook and Kindle apps for reading ebooks.) At our church, many people pull out their phones or tablets, but the Scripture is also displayed on the screen in front. That said, I agree with others who have said:

 

a) be careful not to assume that print reading- of any book, Bible included- is not going to be an effective method of gaining information. Your ds is only 6yo! He has a lot of years to work on speed and fluency and he will ultimately be the one to decide what format he prefers to use. Technology will continue to change and by the time he is a teen, what is common now may not be then. Both of my adult children with dyslexia/language-based learning challenges now read print well. They are both slower readers than others of their academic/intellectual level, but they are fast enough that they can effectively learn through print. My son prefers to read on screen rather than on paper, but he reads rather than listens for most reading. Despite his obvious intelligence, at age 6 he was barely reading CVC words. His skills grew as time moved on.  

 

b) it may be too much of a distraction to other students and the volunteer teachers for your ds to have his tablet in class at the Gr. 1-2 level. I would shelve the idea for now and revisit it when he gets to Gr. 3 (or even Gr. 4), a time when more children who attend church are beginning to read the Bible for themselves.

 

c) definitely, it is asking a lot for the worship team leader to make sure you get the song list ahead of time- especially two weeks ahead. In our church, the songs ARE planned that far ahead, but sometimes something changes. And unless there is a public document that can be easily forwarded to you on an automated basis, it just adds extra work for the leader to do that weekly. I think that it could be possible for the leader to help you create a list of the most commonly sung songs and hymns and find the music on iTunes or wherever and listen to it frequently at home. Again, because your son is so young, most of his peers are not going to be singing along regularly, and certainly not singing in tune all that well. Great to work on at home, yes, but be careful of your expectations.  

[Storygirl]

Elizabeth, I don't have suggestions for you, but I'm following this thread to get some ideas for our own Bible reading.

[PeterPan]

Turns out he really likes the Olive Tree app on the kindle.  Logos, Bible.is, and Gateway (I think?) have audio, but only Bible.is works offline. NIVLive is reasonably nice, but $20, ouch. I figured out that what we can do is put the Olive Tree app into Freetime.  It's a bit of a pain, because I don't normally keep it set up with a lockscreen, etc. to do that.  However I checked it and it will work.  

 

As I anticipated, he likes the app much better than the thought of print.  He's very fast with it and read a whole chapter of Jonah to me.  I think the way it uses abbreviations in the Go To feature will be better too.  To find something regular, he would have to read those words over and over quickly, just to know where he's at as he turns.  This brings the whole process more into reach, and when you're a 6 yo boy who uses the device 10 hours a day anyway, it's just normal to turn it on and read from it.  This is as normal to him as paper books are to other people.  I'm glad to have heard people's concerns and to have the heads-up on how it might be received, but I'm not going to keep him from useful technology just because other people are squeamish.  He can learn to act properly with it and have it as a good tool.  It would be like saying people can't have a service dog because someone might want to pet it.  It's just a tool.

 

My dh says I have a tendency to make waves.   ;)

 

 

[ssavings]

In regard to locking down the iPad to a specific app, I think the feature you're looking for is called "Guided Access".  I can't do cute tiny url links, but check this out, it might be what you want: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=search&src=support_site.globalheader.search&locale=en_US&q=guided%20access

 

 

[kirstenhill]

Not sure if your church plays quite a large variety of songs or not, but one thing I did (for different reasons) was ask the Worship leaders for a list of the top dozen or so most common songs they draw from, and that was pretty easy for them to provide. While there may be other songs occasionally, those are the most common. It may change over time, but I can always ask again next year. ;-). We asked because my DD wanted to start learning worship songs from church on guitar, but also so we could just listen to those songs more often at home so my boys would be more familiar with them.

 

I really like the YouVersion Bible app, which has audio, but not sure about other features. And I agree with others that at our church there is no expectation for kids to read out of a Bible until older than your DS's age. My DD said the students didn't read out of a Bible until 4th grade - prior to that the teacher just read aloud.

[Heathermomster]

I am little confused about the Bible app.  Are you wanting your DS to listen to a Bible app during SS?  or are we talking personal study?  

 

I am not sure that MIT allows their students to listen to audio books during lectures.  Do you think that your DS should wear headphones with the SS teacher mic'd during the class so that he can focus exclusively on him/her?  Would he tolerate headphones?

 

Have you considered speaking with the teacher and getting a copy of the SS literature beforehand so that you review the materials prior to class?  When DS was 4th/5th grades, I was always given prior notice from son's homeroom teacher so that he could pre-listen to literature books that were discussed in class.  

[Heathermomster]

Turns out he really likes the Olive Tree app on the kindle.  Logos, Bible.is, and Gateway (I think?) have audio, but only Bible.is works offline. NIVLive is reasonably nice, but $20, ouch. I figured out that what we can do is put the Olive Tree app into Freetime.  It's a bit of a pain, because I don't normally keep it set up with a lockscreen, etc. to do that.  However I checked it and it will work.  

 

As I anticipated, he likes the app much better than the thought of print.  He's very fast with it and read a whole chapter of Jonah to me.  I think the way it uses abbreviations in the Go To feature will be better too.  To find something regular, he would have to read those words over and over quickly, just to know where he's at as he turns.  This brings the whole process more into reach, and when you're a 6 yo boy who uses the device 10 hours a day anyway, it's just normal to turn it on and read from it.  This is as normal to him as paper books are to other people.  I'm glad to have heard people's concerns and to have the heads-up on how it might be received, but I'm not going to keep him from useful technology just because other people are squeamish.  He can learn to act properly with it and have it as a good tool.  It would be like saying people can't have a service dog because someone might want to pet it.  It's just a tool.

 

My dh says I have a tendency to make waves.   ;)

Your child is reading aloud Jonah, only using the app?  

 

Your child reads better than my DD if that is that case.  I am not seeing a problem here if the audio is turned off.

[FairProspects]

Our perspective is a little bit different. While I won't hesitate to make waves when appropriate, we feel that one of the main purposes of church is community and to worship as a body. That means what is good for the whole comes before what is good for each individual self. While we did speak with the pastor to prevent barriers to worship for our boys, I'm not willing to demand that the church change their views on children and distractions simply to accommodate my kids for one hour of the week. It is good for my kids to learn to be flexible and read print options too, IMHO.  I'm sure this depends on your church and their views or church culture, but I would just caution you that this issue may be more a nuanced choice than you believe. We have chosen not to participate in Awana because the dyslexia caused too many issues, but I certainly wouldn't go in requiring that the Awana rules & memorization awards be changed to suit us. YMMV.

[PeterPan]

In regard to locking down the iPad to a specific app, I think the feature you're looking for is called "Guided Access".  I can't do cute tiny url links, but check this out, it might be what you want: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=search&src=support_site.globalheader.search&locale=en_US&q=guided%20access

Ooo, wow, how did I not know about this!!!  I tried it out, and it's perfect on the ipad!  Now to see if I can find something similar for kindle.  I think what I have to do is use Freetime, which gets there sorta through the back door.  Thanks!  :)

[PeterPan]

Your child is reading aloud Jonah, only using the app?  

 

Your child reads better than my DD if that is that case.  I am not seeing a problem here if the audio is turned off.

Yes, my intention in church is for him to use the app for an e-text, not for audio. At home I'd like him to be able to read with audio but have it downloaded, not streaming.  The Bible.is app can do that.  When you ask for highlighting and audio and downloadable and ESV, that's harder to find.  You can get it for NIV with the NIVLive app.  Sigh.  So I'm figuring multiple apps, each with their own preferred use.  

 

Well I talked with dh about it today, now that I have my ducks in a row, and to him it seemed totally obvious that ds will use an e-bible for church.  If you know him, a print bible doesn't even make sense.  I don't know why that is, just saying that's how it is.  And he felt that as long as we lock it down in freetime or with guided access so that he can ONLY use the reader app, there is no issue with distraction or inappropriateness.  So that's that!  

 

Remember, my ds is right at this age where it's normal to do everything on a device.  His alarms are on there, stories, books, everything.  This child never intersects with printed books.  I have close to 10K books in my house, but everything he does is digital.  It's just a really different experience, sort of like being in a Space Odyssey movie or something.

 

Yes, his reading is coming along.  We work about an hour a day, never as diligently as I wish.  He's not appropriate for his IQ, so I continue to work.  My goal is to get him through as much of Barton 4 as I can before mid-August.  I don't know, just saying that's what I'm trying to do.  He has huge comprehension issues and struggles with larger texts.  He's doing really well when it's at the phrase or single sentence level.  You also realize that I didn't ask him any comprehension questions, lol.  He was just reading aloud. If I then said what was the name of the such and such or what did such and such do, he would have NO CLUE, lol.  

 

I don't know actually what his appropriate for IQ reading would be right now.  Last year, as a newly 6 yo, it would have been late 1st grade.  I've just sort of informally assumed 3rd-ish would be about right.  I assume when we finish Barton 4 we'll be about there.  He enjoys his progress, and I try to keep the sessions manageable.

[PeterPan]

Our perspective is a little bit different. While I won't hesitate to make waves when appropriate, we feel that one of the main purposes of church is community and to worship as a body. That means what is good for the whole comes before what is good for each individual self. While we did speak with the pastor to prevent barriers to worship for our boys, I'm not willing to demand that the church change their views on children and distractions simply to accommodate my kids for one hour of the week. It is good for my kids to learn to be flexible and read print options too, IMHO.  I'm sure this depends on your church and their views or church culture, but I would just caution you that this issue may be more a nuanced choice than you believe. We have chosen not to participate in Awana because the dyslexia caused too many issues, but I certainly wouldn't go in requiring that the Awana rules & memorization awards be changed to suit us. YMMV.

Dh is pretty much of the opinion that this should not be an issue, so I think it's not going to be an issue.  I can see where in some churches it *is* an issue, and I agree with your point on the nuance that it might be appropriate in certain church functions and not others, point well-taken.  And I broached with dh whether ds ought to have an e-version *and* print, so he could use both interchangeably.  He said to him it makes NO sense for ds to use a print version at all.  I don't even know what's going on there.  I'm just saying if you knew him, it would make sense.  It would be like me telling you to take a chisel to church to take notes when you're used to your favorite ballpoint pen.  Chisels work too and people really ought to just stop being so biased against the really traditional ways.  ;)  But I respect your deference to your community.  I think it's an issue that hasn't come up to the community, therefore there has been no edict, therefore dh is going to decide and that's how it will be, kwim?  Small church dynamic, I guess.

 

I think part of it is that he'll actually be much more mature and appropriate with an e-text, as odd as it sounds.  There are no pages to rip, bend, drip on, write on, etc., no pictures, no way to throw it.  A book is just a projectile with him, where the kindle is small and something he knows how to use respectfully.  I think that's it, odd as it sounds, or at least part of it.  He behaves properly with his kindle and can sit there with it quietly and use it for the one purpose and actually do something worthwhile, attempting to follow along and look up verses, where a print book would be a total distraction and too hard for him to do anything with.  

 

He seems to understand abbreviations, so that's my next thing, to teach him the names and let him practice more finding stuff.  He took to it right away, so I'm hopeful.  

[Heathermomster]

I just don't see a problem here.  Maybe you can sit in the back of the SS class quietly and ensure he's not abusing the privilege.  Speak with the SS and just assume a test scenario and play things out. 

 

Once the readings are done, all the kiddos can set their Bibles aside.   

[Heathermomster]

I need to add one thing.  DS started carrying his NEO Alphasmart in class by 4th grade.  At the beginning of the year, the teacher introduced the device to the class.  Son's peers never questioned his use of the NEO.  Students expected him to use the device.  Some went so far as to remind him to pull it out.  There was no issue.  

[FairProspects]

I just don't see a problem here.  Maybe you can sit in the back of the SS class quietly and ensure he's not abusing the privilege.  Speak with the SS and just assume a test scenario and play things out. 

 

Once the readings are done, all the kiddos can set their Bibles aside.   

 

Again, small old school church here, but in our SS the kids never set their Bibles aside (unless they are doing an outside game for a few minutes). They get snacks based on whether or not they bring & are correctly using their Bibles, they have look up races, they are reading from them, reading aloud with them, or they are searching for the answers to questions. The kids are constantly referencing their Bibles for the whole 2 hours per week. OhE, it is probably best to just sit through SS with your ds and see how much of an issue it is or how often he will need to access it and what types of activities they are asking kids to do with their Bibles (ours is a 1st -4th grade class for reference).

[ssavings]

Ooo, wow, how did I not know about this!!!  I tried it out, and it's perfect on the ipad!  Now to see if I can find something similar for kindle.  I think what I have to do is use Freetime, which gets there sorta through the back door.  Thanks!   :)

It's a nifty feature, but one that's not often used. :)

 

On a Kindle, I think I might just create a secondary user name, put parental controls on it to lock out access to everything else, and just put the one app you want used on it. I know you can't actually delete the automatically installed apps like Safari, but you can block browser access, which should accomplish pretty much the same thing. 

[Guest2]

I am so behind the times, checking out those apps. One thing that my DD encountered was that if her bible was not the exact same translation,it got pretty confusing. The words didn' t match up and she didn' t end up reading( she had a print bible, but a different type). Different words coming into her brain at the same time did not work.

[Heathermomster]

Well, thanks to this thread, I purchased a large print Bible for DD and she loves it.  I updated son's Kindle with a student ESV study Bible and carried my Kindle today.  Last night, I spoke with my assistant Pastor about 6 yos with SLDs using Kindles.  He told me that it was none of his business whether a grammar staged child with SLDs used a Kindle in SS.  Half of my church uses devices.  He stated that as long as the device was not abused or a disruption, he was OK with it.  I love my church.