So frustrated (update post #40)

[kbutton]

Well, I could always go with the academic angle.  In 8th grade his reading and writing performance was at a 3rd grade level.  

 

If you currently have performance discrepancies, those should be documented. They look at 1-3 years (with a new IEP, they will be most interested in current and the last year).

 

The various worksheets on the website and their directions might be able to give you an idea of what they are looking at in this regard. You should try to find out how much failure needs to be there to matter to them--there will be kind of a gold standard they want to see, but factoring in some other things might give you more leeway (behavioral/compliance issues plus a small discrepancy vs. a big discrepancy but a compliant kid, etc.). I don't know if you can use more than one worksheet to qualify--things don't look exactly like this in my state. You'll have to read it all. I would be familiar with anything and everything that applies and be ready with answers. Again, specific statement of a problem, followed by an anecdote. One or the other or both should make a direct connection to how that affects school performance and what it looks like, esp. in a classroom setting.

 

Our states form has three parts: Summary of Assessment Results, Description of Educational Needs, Implications for Instruction and Progress Monitoring. Honestly, it's like restating the same data three times, BUT you emphasize and restate it in a way that suits each section. Our state allows observations to be used in the Summary of Assessment Results section, and a person can even pull in some checklists and such from standardized sources (we used a social skills survey that we gave to various adults from Sunday School, etc.). You just have to specify where the data you are discussing comes from. I didn't look at your forms, but you might have something very similar. Use every angle you can, but keep things brief but descriptive, on target/applicable, specific anecdotes for each broad generalization you make, and significant.

 

One reason to document every area of concern is that even if one particular problem doesn't rise to the level of needing an IEP, if he does get an IEP, they will often include those other areas of concern. For instance, my son didn't qualify because of academic need, but if he were in school, he would get supports to help him with speed of computation (assistance learning math facts to automaticity, for instance) simply because that is a weak area, and he qualifies for an IEP in the area of social skills.

[PeterPan]

Dawn, if you go to your state dept of ed and search IEP process, what turns up?  Our state dept of ed has flow charts, brochures, etc.  Remember, they're typically accommodating parents who are not teaching their kids.  The parents just kind of get shuffled through the process.  It's confusing to us, because we have to both shuffle AND be a very active participant. 

 

I think the first thing to figure out are all the labels.  I don't know how it is in every state.  In our state the parent or teacher makes a written initiation, and they have an initial meeting to determine if an MFE (multi-factored eval) is warranted.  If it is, they sign paperwork specifying exactly what categories they will look at.  This is a legal document, and these are the ONLY evals they will do.  This is the first place to stop and make sure you really UNDERSTAND what you're signing.  Be nice, but make sure EVERYTHING you were concerned about AT ALL, in any fashion, is getting addressed there.

 

The school team does the MFE (multi-factored evals) and then they come together for a report meeting.  There is a document they use in our state, an ETR (Evaluation Team Report) that each person on the team contributes to.  Kbutton has shared that her school allowed her to contribute to this.  I contacted our state dept of ed, and in our state *typically* what happens is the parent contributes paper trail to the psych, psych sifts and culls and puts essentials into his pages of contribution to the ETR.  It MUST be in the ETR to get it used as evidence to justify the IEP (individualized education plan).  

 

So an actual IEP is drafted by the school team USING the information reported in the ETR.  There is nothing mysterious.  If you want to contribute, you need something quantifiable, standardized, etc.  They have fancy words for it, but that's the jist.  It's not going to be vague.  It's going to be this was in the ETR, so we cite that and use it as the reason for saying he needs this thing to happen in his IEP.  The IEP writing process is entirely formulaic, and in our state the forms are on the state website.

 

So for our state, as a homeschooling parent, if you want to know precisely what will be going into those forms, you can either study the forms carefully in your meetings OR pull them up ahead of time as pdfs from the state dept of ed website.  Either way works.  

 

1. meeting to determine need for evalution.  Parent signs form authorizing evals.

2. team does evals

3. team meets with parent to report on evals and compiles ETR

4. team drafts IEP

5. team meets with parent to explain IEP

 

At various points you are asked to sign whether you *agree* with things at that point.  It is VERY important that you slow down and make sure you understand.  

 

I suggest you talk with someone else in your school district who has gone in asking for an IEP for autism.  It may be much more uphill than you imagine.  You want to know their lingo so you know the things you need to bring to their attention.  Anything that affects his ability to get to school (like whether he can get dressed), his ability to participate in school, etc. is fair game.  

 

Your FAPE is your child's legal right to a Free and Appropriate Public Education.  Not cadillac, not fair, just free and appropriate.  In theory that means a gifted child with disabilities is not receiving an *appropriate* education if they use the disability's affect on the giftedness to say average is fine.  Discrepancy and appropriateness matters.  There *is* a place on the IEP where a parent can contribute their thoughts verbatim and get them in.  I'm not sure what good it does, but it's there.  You have the legal right to disagree with the ETR (evaluation team report) or to disagree with the IEP.  You can put put in a position where you find yourself feeling pressured to accept ANY IEP because you need it for access to a program.

 

The types of accommodations and goals put into an IEP are easily found online, so you can google autism IEP goals etc. and see what you find.  The school saw things in my child that I had never thought of, both with abilities, disabilities, and ways they would provide supports in a school environment.  MAIN thing is to make sure you mention EVERY category of concern and hold NOTHING back at this beginning stage.  If you have an INKLING of concern, get them to eval it.  You want OT, hearing screenings, anything and everything that you've had concerns with.  Now is the time to lay it all out.  I sorta thought Oh, I'll just walk in and they'll figure it out.  It's not like with a private psych.  It's almost like if you say his left hand hurts, they'll test the left and not the right, lol.  Not exactly, but almost that pigeonholed and stupid.  Assume NOTHING.

 

Good luck.  Pray hard.  You can do it.  :)

[PeterPan]

Adding: Although I did not contribute specifically to ds' ETR or IEP, I gave EXTENSIVE documentation to the psych.  Journals, logs, any kind of paper trail you have.  The school has a process called RTI (response to intervention), so any time they see a problem (reading, social, whatever), they're going to do this RTI thing rather than jumping right into an eval/IEP process, kwim?  Call it obfuscating, and legally they're not supposed to do RTI for an *unlimited* amount of time.  Nevertheless, that's the gig.  So one of my goals was to demonstrate we had done the equivalent of their RTI on our issues.  If that applies to anything you're dealing with, it's something to consider.  Flood them with paper and evidence.  :)

[kbutton]

The school team does the MFE (multi-factored evals) and then they come together for a report meeting.  There is a document they use in our state, an ETR (Evaluation Team Report) that each person on the team contributes to.  Kbutton has shared that her school allowed her to contribute to this.  I contacted our state dept of ed, and in our state *typically* what happens is the parent contributes paper trail to the psych, psych sifts and culls and puts essentials into his pages of contribution to the ETR.  It MUST be in the ETR to get it used as evidence to justify the IEP (individualized education plan).  

 

 

Our school sort of allowed me input. The psych didn't really tell me that I was supposed to do this. He asked me questions that didn't seem relevant without explaining why they were relevant. He didn't exactly clue me in that my responses weren't as inclusive as they should have been, nor that my talking to him was the way in which my concerns would be included. He gave me the ETR format as my son's classroom teacher and allowed me to fumble with it--not answering my questions, losing it three times when I turned it in, telling me how terrible and unhelpful the form was how and how all the team members hated it, etc. However, it galvanized me when I could see that people weren't giving me information, and I totally stumbled onto some relevant details by accident. So, I went crazy and wrote down all the stuff, made all the connections, etc.(I used to be tech writer, and it appeared to me as though I was being invited to a meeting without being told what the meeting as about--and he wanted me to feel that way. So, I documented my own case just like I did when that used to happen from time to time at work, lol!) It wasn't because he included me--it was because he'd torqued me off, and I didn't know what else to do. Enter the ETR meeting (where they go over results and determine eligibility). The team members came right out and said that my explanations were exactly what they needed to hear--they needed to see how the psych eval and specific learning problems looked in real life and in a classroom, how it affected his ability to work and be with peers, and I had done that. So, I wouldn't be so generous as to say I was included--just that I was not excluded, and that they considered me his classroom teacher, and they needed input from someone who'd seen him at work. OhE was really kind of excluded in her process to some extent. I had NO IDEA up front that what I'd done was the right thing--in fact, I had been made to doubt this by the psych to the point that I threw in the towel and risked embarrassing myself by being presumptuous and out of line pushing in with my information. Only it wasn't embarrassing--it was exactly what they needed to hear. The psych definitely behaved in the meeting like he'd been routed, which was terribly fun once I could relax and see the others responding favorably. He'd really stepped in it by marginalizing me because that is exactly what made things coalesce in my mind. 

 

I am not a stubborn person generally, but if you back me into a corner, and I see it coming, I will come out armed to the teeth, so to speak.

[PeterPan]

I contacted the state dept of ed, and their position in writing was that the school was *not* required to allow the parent to contribute but that the parent's comments SHOULD go through the psych.  If I had thought it would have made a difference, I would have fought it.  In our case, I would have had to fight MUCH harder.  Basically our school never did anything more in the end than they had predetermined in the beginning.  There was never any open-mindedness or inquiry at all.  The evals were merely justification for what they had already decided.  

 

My conclusion is schools differ and to take cookies.  I think it just varies.  There was only a show of discussion at our ETR meetings.  Everything had already been decided ahead.  There was no sleuthing in the evals and no room for persuasion or discussion in the report meetings.  

 

To bust out of that would have required signing that you disagree and requesting independent evals.  Apparently that's considered the norm in our district.  That's why it's good that Dawn's district is now *trying* to be helpful.  You'll just have to gauge how your district is.  Maybe they just go man, totally obvious, we're there with you, and are immensely helpful.  That would be best case scenario.  It's just a gov't system and they have quite a bit of power they like to wield.  That's the only way you explain something as absurd as them denying ds even has ADHD when 2 private psychs diagnosed it AND when they were using it as the explanation for certain low test results.   :lol: 

 

[PeterPan]

Btw, I know you probably know this Dawn, but they're going to pull two stunts with you.  

 

1. medical diagnosis vs. school diagnosis.  In theory what this means is a pediatrician or single practitioner diagnosis is a medical diagnosis and a school diagnosis is multi-factored.  But don't worry, they'll be happy to tell you your multi-factored diagnosis isn't a school diagnosis either.   ;)  And remember, the school "diagnosis" is going to be by someone who has NO qualifications.  Don't even get me started on this one.

 

2. whether it affects their ability to receive a free and appropriate public eduction.  Remember, if his diagnosis doesn't affect his ability to receive an education IN THEIR SCHOOL with their system and normal supports, they STILL don't care that he has the diagnosis.  And because a dc might go into a new environment and act differently from normal, they might not see all the things you're seeing, things that will come out later, as he gets more comfortable and starts to be himself.  This process is as much about DENYING service as providing it.  They're not there to give you things.  You only get things into the IEP as there is mounting evidence that they MUST.  

 

Well good luck to you.  You'll get through it!   :)

 

[kbutton]

I contacted the state dept of ed, and their position in writing was that the school was *not* required to allow the parent to contribute but that the parent's comments SHOULD go through the psych.  If I had thought it would have made a difference, I would have fought it.  In our case, I would have had to fight MUCH harder.  Basically our school never did anything more in the end than they had predetermined in the beginning.  There was never any open-mindedness or inquiry at all.  The evals were merely justification for what they had already decided.  

 

My conclusion is schools differ and to take cookies.  I think it just varies.  There was only a show of discussion at our ETR meetings.  Everything had already been decided ahead.  There was no sleuthing in the evals and no room for persuasion or discussion in the report meetings.  

 

To bust out of that would have required signing that you disagree and requesting independent evals.  Apparently that's considered the norm in our district.  That's why it's good that Dawn's district is now *trying* to be helpful.  You'll just have to gauge how your district is.  Maybe they just go man, totally obvious, we're there with you, and are immensely helpful.  That would be best case scenario.  It's just a gov't system and they have quite a bit of power they like to wield.  That's the only way you explain something as absurd as them denying ds even has ADHD when 2 private psychs diagnosed it AND when they were using it as the explanation for certain low test results.   :lol: 

 

You did things just fine. They were being difficult, and you are right that they had made up their mind. I just wanted to note that they pulled a fast one for me--they wanted my input but didn't really specify what it was on the parent side. They told me I could contribute as his teacher with the ETR and then tried to lose it while also refusing to help me understand what I was supposed to put in it. So, I was "allowed," but it was as his teacher, and I don't think anyone expected me to use the form effectively. I don't want anyone to think they extended me some big courtesy--it was more like they denied that you are his teacher.

 

I will be interested in seeing whether they let me put information into the ETR when it's due for re-evaluation. Our district has not really had homeschoolers who sought out an IEP, so I think they will be more careful in the future, unfortunately. But, they've set a precedent. I also encourage other homeschoolers to call themselves the teacher so that they might have more ability to inform the process. 

[DawnM]

Thanks guys.  I did know what Free and Appropriate Ed was but had never seen it referred to a FAPE!  Ha.

 

Thanks for all the great info. I will spend more time reading over all of this within the next few days.

 

I just got a call from the Charter school saying that there IS room for my son for next year!  This is the school that does have the program I think he would fit in to.  So, hopefully the IEP can lead to that or get the ball moving in the directly towards it and I can push for it when we have finished all the evals.  

[DawnM]

Soooo........

I get a call today from the school where I am getting the IEP .....they said I needed to come in and bring something in writing to request the IEP.



SO glad I sent that letter certified with return receipt. I was able to tell hem, "I have already done that, and someone in the front office signed for it."

[PeterPan]

Take in your copy and a photocopy (so your copy never disappears).  Do you have the return receipt?  Don't lose it, mercy.  

 

My school did the same thing.  It got better and we got through it.  I think until your case gets assigned to a single person, things are just sort of scattered and drifting.  Once they get you assigned to the psych or coor who is running your case, it will go better.

[DawnM]

Take in your copy and a photocopy (so your copy never disappears).  Do you have the return receipt?  Don't lose it, mercy.  

 

My school did the same thing.  It got better and we got through it.  I think until your case gets assigned to a single person, things are just sort of scattered and drifting.  Once they get you assigned to the psych or coor who is running your case, it will go better.

 

 

I told her to go check with the VP who called me saying he received it.

 

Unfortunately, they are closed all next week, so nothing will be done, and she called when I was across town and couldn't get back in time anyway.

 

But I think they will find it on their own.  

 

I am getting things together this week to start a 3 ring binder, which will include my letters and return receipts and dates.

[PeterPan]

On your state dept of ed website there should be a flowchart of the timeline for an IEP.  It's kind of weird, because they have this total number of days (90), and benchmarks along the way too. So you want the 30 and 60 day benchmarks too so you know you're always on track. Any time the school got balky with me and said couldn't, I just asked really politely (in writing, with cc to the principal as well as the coor) if we were going to be able to get X done by the 30 or 60 or whatever day deadline.  That's using the law.  Some schools are really scared on that and attentive and some aren't.  I usually just cited it and said I was available at any time to meet with them to make that X happen.

 

Btw, the other thing you REALLY want to do is create paper trail after meetings.  I read it in the NOLO book and at first it seems like oh why bother.  Well you want to do it anyway.  Any time you have a meeting, you follow up with an email (because that's paper trail) and you state what happened, the future plans they said they would do, and thank thank thank and kiss kiss kiss.  You can take it down to one thank and no kiss if you want.  When they receive that email, EVEN IF THEY DON'T REPLY it becomes part of his official paper trail.  That way when they say OH WE NEVER GOT THAT or OH WE NEVER SAID THAT, you have an official paper trail.  If they *disagree* with something you put in that email as to your summary of what went down at the meeting, then they have to reply and clarify/correct.  Otherwise, your paper trail stands.  That can be incredibly powerful and it just takes a little extra effort.  It shows that you're serious about getting this done and not waiting around, so it helps your case stay on their front burner.

 

In other words, when they know you know the law, they will treat you better.  Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but plan on it.

[Storygirl]

Dawn, get the NOLO IEP book if you don't have it. I'm just making my way through it in anticipation of doing the IEP process this next school year, and it is chock full of information and advice.

[DawnM]

It has been 2 weeks and they have not contacted me at all.  

 

Clock is ticking.......

[PeterPan]

Did you email a follow-up note from your meeting with them?  The NOLO book says to follow up EVERY interaction with an email.  The reason is you want paper trail and documentation.  Your summary of the meeting creates a legal paper trail, even if they don't reply.  If they don't write back and disagree with the representation, it stands as an accurate summary of the meeting.  That's incredibly important to have.  

 

So if you did not write a summary/thank you note, then you could write them saying:

-thank you for the meeting and your cordiality (lie, kiss butt, suck up)

-we accomplished these things

-thank you for agreeing to do such and such

-ask a question about whether they're ready to schedule that next step

-state your availability

 

And if you did write a follow-up thank you/summary note, then it's a contact, but same deal.  

 

Whatever you do, CC TO THE PRINCIPAL.  If the SN coor is coordinating your case, cc to the principal or whichever school rep is the additional person at the table (principal, vice principal).  If the psych is coordinating your case, then CC the principal and the SN coor.  It's not rude.  It's keeping them in the loop and politely pointing out that you know they have a boss and the boss needs to know (because he's responsible in the end) and that you're aware of the time and want it done.

 

Smile, kiss butt, but do it.  Do not just sit around and wait for them.  And if you do that and they don't get back to you within a reasonable amount of time to answer your questions you pose (3-4 days, no more than a week), then call your state dept of ed.  The state talks with the schools, and the state dept of ed can create pressure.  If you want them to follow the law, sometimes you have to politely help them remember the law and to remember that you care if it gets implemented.  But bringing in that school representative (principal or vice principal) can be very powerful.  Then that person jerking you around knjows someone else is watching, that they aren't getting away with it.  

[DawnM]

Did you email a follow-up note from your meeting with them?  The NOLO book says to follow up EVERY interaction with an email.  The reason is you want paper trail and documentation.  Your summary of the meeting creates a legal paper trail, even if they don't reply.  If they don't write back and disagree with the representation, it stands as an accurate summary of the meeting.  That's incredibly important to have.  

 

So if you did not write a summary/thank you note, then you could write them saying:

-thank you for the meeting and your cordiality (lie, kiss butt, suck up)

-we accomplished these things

-thank you for agreeing to do such and such

-ask a question about whether they're ready to schedule that next step

-state your availability

 

And if you did write a follow-up thank you/summary note, then it's a contact, but same deal.  

 

Whatever you do, CC TO THE PRINCIPAL.  If the SN coor is coordinating your case, cc to the principal or whichever school rep is the additional person at the table (principal, vice principal).  If the psych is coordinating your case, then CC the principal and the SN coor.  It's not rude.  It's keeping them in the loop and politely pointing out that you know they have a boss and the boss needs to know (because he's responsible in the end) and that you're aware of the time and want it done.

 

Smile, kiss butt, but do it.  Do not just sit around and wait for them.  And if you do that and they don't get back to you within a reasonable amount of time to answer your questions you pose (3-4 days, no more than a week), then call your state dept of ed.  The state talks with the schools, and the state dept of ed can create pressure.  If you want them to follow the law, sometimes you have to politely help them remember the law and to remember that you care if it gets implemented.  But bringing in that school representative (principal or vice principal) can be very powerful.  Then that person jerking you around knjows someone else is watching, that they aren't getting away with it.  

 

 

I have not actually had a meeting yet!  It was all via phone and it was just a "we got your stuff, we will get back to you."  That as IT.

 

Dawn

[PeterPan]

Your state dept of ed should have an IEP process timeline.  Is it on their website?  It will actually show the precise documents and steps, so each stage is clear to you.  That way you know what you're asking for, whether they're on-time, and whether it's getting done.

 

So you made your formal written request.  They have, in our state, 30 days (iirc), to have the meeting where they sit down with you and determine whether there is indication to warrant a multi-factored eval AND sign the parental constent form for that eval.  That parental consent form has a number.  Your state probably has documents, and it's the same everywhere.  So that's what you're trying to get done.  

 

Since all that *can* happen in one meeting they are not yet necessarily behind, odd as that sounds.  They're probably going to drag it out to the end of the 30 days, because they can and because it's more convenient for them.  The law allows them to do that, and you're working with gov't junk, so I guess get used to it.  Now if you had to get EVALS done in the next two weeks, that would be different.  But just to get the people back i their offices and get this all scheduled so you can have that meeting, determine the need for evals, and sign the consent form? They may be fine.

 

Thing is, read that timeline for your state and make sure you're supporting that process.  They're NOT necessarily going to jump from one point to the next.  They can totally shut you down at this stage if you don't show up with evidence or something that convinces them.  So what you could do is frame your email as:

 

-thanks for the helpfulness of your phone call

-x date is 30 days from your written request when they need to have done the meeting to determine the need for evals

-is there anything you could bring to support the process (school work samples, psych reports, etc.)

-you are available at their convenience for the meeting

blah blah

 

You already know what you're going to take there, but that's not the point.  They might even say something useful or have a suggestion you hadn't thought of.  The point is it's showing you're serious, that you have evidence, REMINDING THEM OF THE DATE (because yes they really could just lose it), and just sort of politely being the squeaky wheel.  CC that to your school rep, the SN coor, and whoever is coordinating your case.  If you don't know, then the person you talked to plus whoever is higher up the chain of command.

 

I would remind them because things DO fall through the cracks.  An email is not bugging people, not if you're polite like that, and it creates legal paper trail.  They may have lost the dates.  Really though, my guess is people are on vacation and they're hoping you lose track and they can wait till mid-August when their staff comes back.  If you want it sooner, get writing.

[DawnM]

I have already given them the full psych eval and did that when I started the process.  They have  had it for almost 21 days.  

 

 

[PeterPan]

Then your email is cc'd to that case coordinator's boss and you politely ask if they're ready to schedule that appt. to accomplish xyz (determination of need and signing of consent form, whatever) by the 30 days, that you're available and want to be helpful.  Then as soon as you email that I'd call your state dept of ed and get squeeking.  They definitely talk and can apply pressure to get them to follow the law.  Keep logs of everything.  Then, if they don't get it done by the 30 days (or whatever your state's laws specify) when you've done all that, file the complaint with your dept of ed.

 

Sorry it's not easy or an honest process.  Hopefully they'll come through for you.  Be persistent.  When you're DONE with all this, it will have been good.  It's just getting through it that can be the torture.