So frustrated (update post #40)

[DawnM]

My 17 year old falls in the cracks of any school out there except the $20K per year special school.  In fact, I think it is up to $23K per year now.  We cannot afford it but we make too much to qualify for any aid.

 

I have talked to the PS and they say his IQ is too high for any kind of inclusion classroom, but he can't function in the mainstreamed classroom.

 

I need something for him.  He is refusing to do any work for me and it just turns in to arguing, fighting, and me throwing my hands up and telling him if he wants to learn, let me know.

 

This is not anything new.  This is over 10 years of butting heads, him getting frustrated, blah, blah, blah.

 

He has Asperger's and LDs (non-specified).

 

I am trying now to get him tested through the school district but they are telling me it will take 90 days, longer than I have before school starts.  They suggest I throw him in the regular ed classes so they can observe him.  Um, no.....that isn't fair to him or the students in those classes.

 

I can't fight this fight anymore at home.  It has probably taken at least 10 years off my life.  It is so stressful to know that every singe thing I ask him to do academically will turn into a heavy sigh, an argument over it not being relevant to anything he does in real life, and just plain anger and frustration on his part.

 

Yesterday I went to talk to a guy in a PS Occupational program.  He says without an IEP, he can't admit him in the program but he looked at his scores and IQ and said he is too high of an IQ for the program.

 

I am going to talk to another charter school next week about some sort of a plan at their school, but I am not holding my breath.

 

 

[PeterPan]

That 90 days starts from the day you make your formal WRITTEN request.  So if you go drop that letter off today, signed and dated, keeping a copy for yourself, that starts the ticker.  Don't you think maybe they were giving you the run-around and blowoff?  They only have 90 days, even in the summer, and seems to me whoever has to do it will want to get it over with.  If you've already had evals, this could probably be done relatively quickly.  

 

When are the staff back to school?  Around here it's the middle of August.  If you make your written request now, the worst that happens is they have to get the IEP done by the middle of September.  That's only 1-2 weeks into the school year.

 

Talk with your state department of ed and see what your rights are.  They can put pressure on the school to get it done.  

[DawnM]

That 90 days starts from the day you make your formal WRITTEN request.  So if you go drop that letter off today, signed and dated, keeping a copy for yourself, that starts the ticker.  Don't you think maybe they were giving you the run-around and blowoff?  They only have 90 days, even in the summer, and seems to me whoever has to do it will want to get it over with.  If you've already had evals, this could probably be done relatively quickly.  

 

When are the staff back to school?  Around here it's the middle of August.  If you make your written request now, the worst that happens is they have to get the IEP done by the middle of September.  That's only 1-2 weeks into the school year.

 

Talk with your state department of ed and see what your rights are.  They can put pressure on the school to get it done.  

 

Yes, I do know that.  I called yesterday around 3pm and they said due to summer hours they will not be open today.  I will deal with it on Monday.  I need to go talk to the Middle school about enrolling my youngest anyway and the high school is right next door.

 

Part of the issue is, I am NOT putting him at this school (my local school), it would be a disaster.  I am putting him in a charter.   The charter said that they cannot start the 90 days until the first day of school because even though I am filling out the paperwork for him to go there, he is not officially enrolled in the charter until he shows up the first day.

 

UGH.  I wish I had known all of this a month ago.  We had 60 days where I came from, at least up until 10 years ago.  But the problem is, we had no idea we were looking at sending him or any of my kids to school at that point.

 

I do plan to talk to the EC director of the charter next week.  

 

Thank you.

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

But my main concern is not getting the IEP.   I know what his issues are.  My concern is finding out what school could actually work for him.  I have spoken to two EC folks and they say, "Well, we can't tell you what accommodations he would get until WE see him in the classroom and can evaluate for ourselves.  So, go ahead and just enroll him as a regular student."

 

Um, no, believe me, you don't want that and I don't want that.

[OneStepAtATime]

No good suggestions but  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .

 

I know this gets really expensive but what about specialized tutoring services?

 

The other possibility might be relocating?

[PeterPan]

If you got the IEP through the ps and then enrolled him in the charter, how would the charter handle that?  They'd use the IEP?

 

[prairiewindmomma]

A few thoughts:

 

1. If the plan is to do anything post-secondary with him (trade school, community college on a slow pace), I'd consider doing a trial at the charter more seriously. Yes, it's likely to be a hot steaming mess, but there's something to be said for letting everybody know how awful things are. If it is really terrible (meltdowns when frustrated, walking out of classrooms, etc.), I can't imagine that they are going to let that go on for long. It will also be a "yes we tried this and..." if he is going to want to go to community college or something later on.

 

2. Is he already in counseling? 

 

3. What about a tutor?

 

I totally understanding needing to pull yourself out of the educational picture. Best wishes to all of you!

[DawnM]

If you got the IEP through the ps and then enrolled him in the charter, how would the charter handle that?  They'd use the IEP?

 

 

Yes.  It has to be done in a school apparently.  I have a School Psychologist who I paid $$ to 3 years ago but they said that doesn't count.   I still don't quite understand why.  In CA, a private assessment most certainly DID count and there were all kinds of reasons why parents opted for private.

[DawnM]

A few thoughts:

 

1. If the plan is to do anything post-secondary with him (trade school, community college on a slow pace), I'd consider doing a trial at the charter more seriously. Yes, it's likely to be a hot steaming mess, but there's something to be said for letting everybody know how awful things are. If it is really terrible (meltdowns when frustrated, walking out of classrooms, etc.), I can't imagine that they are going to let that go on for long. It will also be a "yes we tried this and..." if he is going to want to go to community college or something later on.

 

2. Is he already in counseling? 

 

3. What about a tutor?

 

I totally understanding needing to pull yourself out of the educational picture. Best wishes to all of you!

 

 

We HOPE he can do something post secondary, but right now we are just hoping.

 

Yes, he is in group therapy and individual therapy.

 

Tutors on top of all the therapy would be out of the question.  We have looked into tutoring and the local place that works with LD students is $500/month min.

 

However, the charter requires all teachers to offer several days a week of free tutoring and they said hardly any students use it, so that might be a great resource.

[DawnM]

No good suggestions but  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .

 

I know this gets really expensive but what about specialized tutoring services?

 

The other possibility might be relocating?

 

 

We cannot afford specialized tutoring.  We are paying through the nose for his therapy needs right now.

 

Relocating is out of the question.  My husband's job is very stable and my kids are entrenched here.  My oldest son is getting the most excellent therapy I have ever seen anywhere.

 

So, we do need to work within the system.

 

Besides, I honestly don't know that anywhere else would be better.

[City Mouse]

Public schools can choose to accept the private eval, but they are not required to do so, but even if they did, it is 3 yrs old and it is too old to be acceptable.

I am sorry this process is so frustrating for you, but what they are telling you sound reasonable.

The IEP is what spells out services, so the school's can't say what services they can provide until the student has an IEP that staes what kind of services are needed.

[DawnM]

Public schools can choose to accept the private eval, but they are not required to do so, but even if they did, it is 3 yrs old and it is too old to be acceptable.

I am sorry this process is so frustrating for you, but what they are telling you sound reasonable.

The IEP is what spells out services, so the school's can't say what services they can provide until the student has an IEP that staes what kind of services are needed.

 

I do understand that, but I do know what he needs, and I have an eval, that while outdated, DOES outline issues he has.  His issues haven't changed. He still has Asperger's.  He still struggles with fine motor skills.  He still has a learning disability.  Those things will not change.

 

I asked specifically if I could just get an updated report done at the private place I went to and he said NO, it has to be done in the school.  I guess I should double check on that because I have never heard of that before.  I really do not mind paying for an eval if it would help the process along.

 

And the district we came from had a 60 day window, not 90.

 

But really, they do not want him in a regular classroom.  If they insist, I guess I can say they have been warned.  

 

But I will still go talk to the principal this week if possible and explain and tell her we have requested an IEP and see what she says.

[DawnM]

I called the school today.  The secretary called me back and said there is no one who has time to talk to me but I should wait until July 6th and enroll my son and then wait to get the IEP until after school starts.

 

I tried to explain that we want to start the 90 day clock now and she was quite rude and condesending.

 

SO, I have now written a letter to the school and to the district with all necessary paperwork enclosed, dates on the papers, and sent it certified, return receipt.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Bingo.  You don't have to wait for permission.  You write the letter and it starts the clock.  They're just telling you what's convenient for them.  Good for you.  

 

PS.  Did you make copies of everything?  Make sure you keep a copy of EVERYTHING.  Make notes with quotes and dates and names.  Every time you call anyone, any email, anything.  Our school wasn't purposely dingbatty, but they misplaced dates and papers when it was to their advantage, didn't follow up on things, etc.  It was only after I started calling the state dept of ed that things suddenly began happening in a flurry, but I actually had to produce copies of the original request letter I had given them (with the date) because they had "lost" it.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Bingo.  You don't have to wait for permission.  You write the letter and it starts the clock.  They're just telling you what's convenient for them.  Good for you.  

 

PS.  Did you make copies of everything?  Make sure you keep a copy of EVERYTHING.  Make notes with quotes and dates and names.  Every time you call anyone, any email, anything.  Our school wasn't purposely dingbatty, but they misplaced dates and papers when it was to their advantage, didn't follow up on things, etc.  It was only after I started calling the state dept of ed that things suddenly began happening in a flurry, but I actually had to produce copies of the original request letter I had given them (with the date) because they had "lost" it.  

Agree. Start a journal specifically for this, along with something to keep all paperwork in.  Note every single phone call, time, date, name of the person you talked to, what you sent and when, etc.  Keep it as accurate as possible.  Looks like they want to play hardball.  Your best weapon is to be more organized and prepared than they are.  

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[kbutton]

You also need to look on the state department of education website to see what qualifies a student as needing an IEP and what will not work to qualify them. You need to look at the forms that they review to see what they say. Our state's form has a spot where they are not required to give an IEP due to lack of appropriate instruction, for instance. Anyway, once you know what gets you and IEP and what does not (and it includes behavioral stuff sometimes), then you need to to keep that in front of you and connect those dots--"My son struggles with this, it's on x list of yours (what qualifies him for an IEP), and this is how it looks in real life in school and affects his education." Over and over. 

 

We also had a list of evaluations we could agree to at the outset. Check every box, whether you think it applies or not. In our case, it includes things like behaviorial, speech, etc. Social skills were the nail in the coffin for us--our son did not qualify academically, and everything else could be accommodated with a Section 504. Social skills got us the IEP, and those were under speech. I had no idea until someone told me that, so be sure that you have them look at everything. 

 

Provide your own observations with lists of symptoms/difficulties and anecdotes about how it played out in the context of schoolwork. They may or may not include those in their report, but when you meet with the IEP team, you can bring your own copies to distribute and discuss. You are a member of the IEP team, and they have to listen to your observations as well. 

[prairiewindmomma]

You are getting great advice.

 

We also had feet-draggers and paper-losers and 504 v. IEP issues.

 

My phone log, duplicate copies, and outside evals that they had to "consider" were key to just being able to get to the table.

[kbutton]

You are getting great advice.

 

We also had feet-draggers and paper-losers and 504 v. IEP issues.

 

My phone log, duplicate copies, and outside evals that they had to "consider" were key to just being able to get to the table.

 

Add 3 lost e-mails, every one of them being the same message with MY INPUT for the IEP meeting--never with someone else's data. My husband hand-delivered the documents at the last minute, and I told the person who "lost" the messages that if I'd used lost e-mails as an excuse in my real job, I would've been in trouble. I told him that he should contact IT to find out what was happening to my messages since he knew he was supposed to be getting them. One of the three magically appeared in his inbox that afternoon. 

 

Be prepared for "You know it's going to be hard to find suitable IEP accommodations for your 2e kid." I told them that I knew of other gifted kids in another school district who had IEPs, and that I suggest they call that school district if they were at a loss for ideas (all while assuring them that I knew they could figure it out). (My neighbor teachers honors calc classes in another district, and she has students with IEPs. I was grasping at straws, but it kept the psychologist having to prove that he was making an effort to service our needs.)

[DawnM]

I have already looked up what qualifies and what doesn't.  In the request, I listed specifically why he needs an IEP (ASD as well as NS LDs.)  I also made a copy of the form that states the law requiring them to give me an IEP regardless of his enrollment in the school.

 

 

[DawnM]

I finally did get a call from a Spec. Ed teacher who was the rudest person I have talked to yet.  He basically to me to enroll him in reg. ed and let THEM, "the experts" decide if he needs an IEP.   He also said they don't have the staff in the summer so I should just enroll him in the Fall.

I explained that the info given by the district offices stated otherwise and he got really defensive and said, "It isn't that simplistic Ma'am" in a very condescending tone.

 

He also kept saying, "Well, I don't know about that, so you should just do X"  I finally said, "Is there someone there I could speak to who would know the answers to these questions?"

 

That didn't sit well with him and he got so angry and curtly responded with, "Ma'am, as I have ALREADY said, you need to enroll him and let us do the deciding."

 

I ended up tell him he was rude and hanging up.

 

It is beyond what I thought I would ever have to deal with.

[prairiewindmomma]

If you haven't brushed up on your reading of Wrightslaw's From Emotions to Advocacy, I'd add that to your stack of summer reading. Their tips on how to get past gatekeepers and how to create a paper trail are helpful.

 

 

[DawnM]

If you haven't brushed up on your reading of Wrightslaw's From Emotions to Advocacy, I'd add that to your stack of summer reading. Their tips on how to get past gatekeepers and how to create a paper trail are helpful.

 

 

I have gone on the site but haven't spent a lot of time.  Not even sure where to start there!

[kbutton]

The NOLO book is supposed to be good too.

 

I used this book, but not for getting past the gatekeepers: http://www.amazon.com/When-School-Says-How-Get/dp/1849059179

 

We had to supply certain information for the school's database/whatever system that they used to enroll kids so that they could generate the right paperwork and start the process. In our state, this is not the same as enrolling the student. I asked a lot of questions to be sure because I didn't want to mess up our homeschooling paperwork by accident. I also withheld certain information that they would need if he were a student there, such as emergency contact information, to make it very clear that he wasn't going to be attending school. Maybe this is what he is trying to tell you.

 

I found that people frequently gave me incorrect information, though on the district level, we were kind of unicorns, and they wanted to do it right so that they didn't have negative repercussions. At the higher levels, they didn't care at all and fed us information that was totally incorrect. 

[Carol in Cal.]

You can't believe what they tell you without question.

It is not in their best interests to provide 'an appropriate education' to your son, although they are required by law to do so, because it will be very expensive and non-standard.  If they can stall long enough, he will age out, and they will be completely off the hook.  I'm not saying that they are all corrupt like that, because there are many good people with integrity who work in that system and do great things; but you do have to understand that the incentive is against helping you, and that that COULD influence some who are not as trustworthy as they should be.  So you have to figure this out yourself, and do all the right things, regardless of what they tell you.  And document, document, document.

[kbutton]

I finally did get a call from a Spec. Ed teacher who was the rudest person I have talked to yet.  He basically to me to enroll him in reg. ed and let THEM, "the experts" decide if he needs an IEP.   He also said they don't have the staff in the summer so I should just enroll him in the Fall.

I explained that the info given by the district offices stated otherwise and he got really defensive and said, "It isn't that simplistic Ma'am" in a very condescending tone.

 

He also kept saying, "Well, I don't know about that, so you should just do X"  I finally said, "Is there someone there I could speak to who would know the answers to these questions?"

 

That didn't sit well with him and he got so angry and curtly responded with, "Ma'am, as I have ALREADY said, you need to enroll him and let us do the deciding."

 

I ended up tell him he was rude and hanging up.

 

It is beyond what I thought I would ever have to deal with.

 

Gently...they don't really care if your son has ASD and LDs. He can have all of those things and still be in regularly ed if he's not failing badly enough on their testing. It's a different model than what you are thinking, and it's not straightfoward. This teacher should not have been so rude to you, but honestly, even the nicest educators I talked to during out IEP experience couldn't find a straightforward way to explain this to us. Even the ones that felt like my son needed an IEP but weren't sure he'd qualify. And if your son's only reasons for failing or not doing well are behavioral, then you need to make the case for the IEP on a behavioral basis as well, if that is something they factor in in your state and in high school evaluations. They will test your son, and they will decide if he is allowed an IEP. My son wasn't doing poorly enough academically to qualify for anything. Speech (social skills/pragmatics) got us qualified. They threw in some other stuff that would've gone in a Section 504 plan once we had the IEP, such as supports for composition and writing, based on his dysgraphia diagnosis. Academically, they tested his reading (and couldn't determine a level because he blew up the test), and math (tested on grade leve because he works too slowly to finish the timed test). That's all they cared about besides OT, PT, speech, behavioral, etc. You can have every LD in the book, but if you pass their testing, then you don't supposedly need an IEP. 

 

So, he can be completely right and still be rude, and i'm just trying to help you understand how.

 

We all know that passing the test doesn't necessarily mean that a child doesn't need services, but it gets awfully hard to obtain them otherwise.

[DawnM]

Gently...they don't really care if your son has ASD and LDs. He can have all of those things and still be in regularly ed if he's not failing badly enough on their testing. It's a different model than what you are thinking, and it's not straightfoward. This teacher should not have been so rude to you, but honestly, even the nicest educators I talked to during out IEP experience couldn't find a straightforward way to explain this to us. Even the ones that felt like my son needed an IEP but weren't sure he'd qualify. And if your son's only reasons for failing or not doing well are behavioral, then you need to make the case for the IEP on a behavioral basis as well, if that is something they factor in in your state and in high school evaluations. They will test your son, and they will decide if he is allowed an IEP. My son wasn't doing poorly enough academically to qualify for anything. Speech (social skills/pragmatics) got us qualified. They threw in some other stuff that would've gone in a Section 504 plan once we had the IEP, such as supports for composition and writing, based on his dysgraphia diagnosis. Academically, they tested his reading (and couldn't determine a level because he blew up the test), and math (tested on grade leve because he works too slowly to finish the timed test). That's all they cared about besides OT, PT, speech, behavioral, etc. You can have every LD in the book, but if you pass their testing, then you don't supposedly need an IEP. 

 

So, he can be completely right and still be rude, and i'm just trying to help you understand how.

 

We all know that passing the test doesn't necessarily mean that a child doesn't need services, but it gets awfully hard to obtain them otherwise.

 

It is all in the private assessment that they won't accept.  I will not throw him into their school.  It would be like throwing him to the wolves.  

 

However, I will throw him in the charter if necessary in the reg. ed.  They seem more willing to work with him.  But if he is bullied or picked on, or so frustrated that he starts having melt downs, I will have to homeschool him again.

 

We have had a lot of issues with him at home.  But I guess they probably don't care about that either.

 

He has been in therapy, both group and individual, for almost 2 years now.  He still cannot cope with large groups, social issues, or loud sounds.  He will walk out of the classroom.  He will have to.  And if he is stressed he will shut down completely and refuse to do anything.  

 

They may not care if my son has ASD or LDs, but according to their website, these do qualify him to receive an IEP.

 

Dawn

[kbutton]

It is all in the private assessment that they won't accept.  I will not throw him into their school.  It would be like throwing him to the wolves.  

 

However, I will throw him in the charter if necessary in the reg. ed.  They seem more willing to work with him.  But if he is bullied or picked on, or so frustrated that he starts having melt downs, I will have to homeschool him again.

 

We have had a lot of issues with him at home.  But I guess they probably don't care about that either.

 

He has been in therapy, both group and individual, for almost 2 years now.  He still cannot cope with large groups, social issues, or loud sounds.  He will walk out of the classroom.  He will have to.  And if he is stressed he will shut down completely and refuse to do anything.  

 

They may not care if my son has ASD or LDs, but according to their website, these do qualify him to receive an IEP.

 

Dawn

 

You probably don't have to enroll him to have the school district run their tests, but I don't know how much this varies from state to state. But they do have to run their tests. They may factor in the private report. They may agree with it totally but find that they have no basis for providing an IEP because of it. 

 

Our state's website seems to suggest that ASD or LDs qualify kids too, but the reality is that failing/falling behind qualifies kids, and to what the school district attributes that failure gets them an IEP or allows them to withhold an IEP. If you continue to state that he needs an IEP without waiting to see how the process unfolds and educating yourself about it, you will get pushback. They do see pushy parents as well as parents who have kids with legitimate needs.

 

Some kids have things in their Section 504 plan or IEP that allow them to move to a more calming location (back of the class, adjoining room--depends on the setup of the school and classroom). 

 

I would find out about the behavioral angle and how it can be supported in an IEP or Section 504 plan.

 

Do you have to have an IEP, or would a Section 504 plan help? Are you assuming that he'd be in a spec ed classroom if he has an IEP? My son would be pulled out for special tutoring and help, but he would be in a regular classroom (and possibly gifted programming) for most of the time. He would not be in a self-contained resource room. Few kids are. Some districts have behavioral rooms or even behavioral schools. I don't know if an IEP triggers that, or if that's only for kids who have a bad behavior track record (throwing chairs, etc.) and/or a mental illness diagnosis.

 

I am a little unclear as to why you want an IEP vs. whatever gets him accommodations. In our state, an IEP gets you access to scholarship money for therapies, tutoring, private school, etc. Otherwise, I wouldn't care whether my son had an IEP or a Section 504 plan as long as he got what he needed to succeed.

[PeterPan]

Dawn, Kbutton is right here.  There are a shocking number of kids in the ps with ASD with NO IEP.  It doesn't matter if your dc has ASD.  It's not that ASD automatically gets you an IEP, anymore than any other condition.  It's only if the condition prevents the dc from receiving a free and appropriate public education by their measures and observation.  They don't give a rip what he did at home, and it may be that he will act differently, at least initially, in the school environment.  I know because that's what happened to us.  In fact, they even got more bizarre.  The observer watched him in a classroom but not in social settings like a playground and then filled out none of the social questions on the forms even though we're talking a social diagnosis!!  

 

To get an ASD label by the school for an IEP you have to fight, at least in our area.  There's big, big, big, BIG money involved, and they're not going to accept your evals.  They also don't have the team to do evals.  So basically, in our area you have to go pay for them privately, using a place that does multi-faceted (SLP, OT, psych, etc. all in the practice, all concurring), which means basically a hospital eval, which is a place that at least around here uses students.  

 

If he doesn't do for them in the classroom the things he's been doing to you at home, they won't care about his long-standing ASD label.  If he can receive an education in their setting, even if it's by ugly means (like he just shuts down or goes home and melts down every day), they don't care.  His ASD label will NOT automatically get him an IEP.  

 

Maybe what you should do is consider finding an IEP advocate in your state and talking with them.  They'll know your state laws and how your district rolls.  They can come with you to meetings if you want.  They can soundboard and help you determine if the school is being straight.  This is not a fair process or one that's likely to go like you thought.  You're going to have a team of people without qualifications making important decisions about your child's care in the school.  You *do* have legal rights to fight it, but you have to know the law and be very calm about it.  This is the hardest scenario.

 

The curious thing to me, and I'm just being straight, is to wonder what actually *would* happen with him in a school environment.  I have no doubt what you said is true about his behavior.  It's also true that things can be surprising.  If you really feel he needs this IEP, you're probably going to need an advocate.  How to find one?  Call around, google...

[PeterPan]

Yes, in our state they will redefine things.  You would have to take them to court, use an advocate, etc.  This is an ugly, stressful process.  It's why I finally just gave up and walked with what I got, because it wasn't worth one more iota of anything from my family. It was easier to pay for the rest myself than to fight for more.  

 

You should probably figure out for yourself what you're trying to accomplish with the IEP.  Not vague but really specific.  You want them to provide certain therapies?  He needs an aide in class?  Something else??  

[Storygirl]

Dawn, since we are not likely to be in the same state, this may or may not be helpful, but I thought I'd mention that our neighbors are former homeschoolers who enrolled their children in a private Christian charter school last year and went through the IEP process for their children. We are heading down the same path (getting ready to enroll in private school; thinking two of the kids need to be evaluated for IEPs), so I've asked her a few questions. Here's what I learned from their experience:

 

* The private school asked that they have time to have the kids in the classroom with their teachers before initiating the IEP process. The family complied. Because of the delayed start (halfway through the school year), the children did not receive their IEPs until the very end of the school year. Yes, it took the entire school year.

 

* Even though they are enrolled in the private school, the public school writing the IEP required them to register or enroll. It seemed ridiculous to the mom, since the children would never go there, but the school insisted. They never attended classes at the public school, so maybe this enrollment process was just some kind of registration, not true enrollment. Whatever the case, it was confusing to the parents, but they just went along with it.

 

* When I had a question of my own a year ago, I called the state department of ed, and they told me that students did NOT have to be enrolled in the public school to be evaluated. So there is some kind of disconnect between what the state's official policy is and what the school says they require. I suspect this is not at all unusual. I asked how I could educated my school district about how the law pertains to homeschoolers, and the state said to tell them to contact their state support team for guidance (I didn't take this step, so I don't know how that suggestion would have been received). I don't know if your state has this kind of support network, but I suspect there must be some higher level that the school can appeal to for help. You might want to find out what this support team is for your state so that you can ask your local people to consult with them.

 

* Our same friends said their child has obvious sensory issues and has been treated for them in the past with OT but does not get services for sensory in her IEP, because the behaviors do not show up in the classroom. This goes along with what Elizabeth said about things having to be present in the classroom to be included in the IEP. I suspect that many of the problems homeschoolers run into when trying to get IEPs is that the teachers must write the IEP based on what they have observed, and their normal observation comes by working with enrolled students. Maybe it's hard for them to think outside that and figure out how to go through the process with a non-student. "But we have to observe them in the classroom. Therefore, they must be enrolled. There is no other way we can figure out how to do this." It's a stumbling block. Somehow we have to show them how the law provides a process for out-of-the-box situations. They are so used to doing things step by step and going through their process and filling out the paperwork that generates the next step that it requires a change of mindset for them to see it differently. Not just a change of mindset, but an education about the law and a polite insistence that they comply.

 

We have not gone through the IEP process ourselves (yet), but I did make some initial inquiries last year, and I found the same resistance in both my old school district and the new one (we recently moved). I think it may be typical, unfortunately. I think I may have triggered some automatic resistant responses by using the words, "I think my kids will need IEPs." The principal bristled and made sure I knew that they were the ones to decide whether an IEP was warranted. "You can't just walk in here and say you want one." Sigh. I think the next time we think about starting this, I will make sure to say that we are requesting evaluations, not that we are requesting an IEP. Because they are required to evaluate, but they are not required to write an IEP unless and until they get to the point that it is proven to be needed.

 

So I guess my advice to myself down the road would be: 1)Know my rights and politely insist upon them. 2) Try not to tick anyone off, because I will need to be working with them through the process and don't want to start off being adversaries. 3) Even so, don't concede when I know we are right (for example, my friend should not have given the school so much extra time to get to know her kids before starting the process; it seemed like a fair request, and she didn't know better). Which leads to 4) Don't rely on the school to tell me how things will go, but know the process ahead of time.

 

Anyway, I'm glad you wrote your letter. Hopefully that will get things moving.

[PeterPan]

Storygirl, the issue with the enrollment is a soft enroll to create a student identifier number.  It doesn't change your legal status.  If the state does not use SSN, then they have to create a number, which is the purpose of the soft enroll.  It's nothing nefarious.  :)

 

Yes, when I talked with officials it was requesting an MFE to see if they qualified for an IEP to qualify for the disability scholarship.

[MomatHWTK]

14 ago, I transferred a student (my nephew) from one ps to another.  The first had done no evaluations.  When I mentioned that my nephew had reading difficulty and asked about evaluations I was told it would take 6 months.  The school did however choose to put him in a reading assistance class after he enrolled rather than wait for the full evaluation.  In the end I never made a formal request and he was never evaluated.  But, he did finally learn to read, something his previous school had never bother to teach him. 

 

 

More recently, I've been told by DS' therapist (she is a PhD in ed psych) that if we chose to enroll DS in ps, the school district would not accept her evaluations but would go through their own agency.  She did feel given his condition at the time he would not be in an integrated class and would probably spend some school time in therapy daily.  I assume this is based on her familiarity with the local schools via her other patients. 

 

IEPs and 504s are legally required and must be fairly implemented. I know as a parent it is frustrating.  But the reality is, last to sign up goes to the back of the line and there has to be proof for ever accomodation provided to justify the cost.  We chose to homeschool because we weren't willing to risk DS' health in order to prove his need way back when our "only" issue was severe food allergies.  :mellow:

 

 

 

[DawnM]

I know not all ASD kids need IEPs.   But I also know that if he has one he qualifies to receive an evaluation for an IEP if I request it.

 

I spoke to a Spec. Ed. teacher yesterday.  She goes to our church.  She was less than helpful and said basically that it isn't fair to the local PS to get an eval from them if my son isn't even going to school there and that she "hates" giving IEPs to homeschoolers.  Sigh.

 

After thinking more last night, and feeling that this district won't ever see  him in a classroom, I really think maybe putting him in the classroom at the charter is a better idea.  Once he is enrolled, I will go and talk to the principal and explain to her what is going on.  A friend of mine has a son there who is VERY similar to my son in terms of what issues he has.  He is in the Occupational Program.  That is all I want, for him to go into the OP.  I don't want special accommodations from the regular classroom.  

 

I feel like everyone is just telling me to give up.  

 

Unfortunately, he falls between some huge cracks.  

 

 

[DawnM]

14 ago, I transferred a student (my nephew) from one ps to another.  The first had done no evaluations.  When I mentioned that my nephew had reading difficulty and asked about evaluations I was told it would take 6 months.  The school did however choose to put him in a reading assistance class after he enrolled rather than wait for the full evaluation.  In the end I never made a formal request and he was never evaluated.  But, he did finally learn to read, something his previous school had never bother to teach him. 

 

 

More recently, I've been told by DS' therapist (she is a PhD in ed psych) that if we chose to enroll DS in ps, the school district would not accept her evaluations but would go through their own agency.  She did feel given his condition at the time he would not be in an integrated class and would probably spend some school time in therapy daily.  I assume this is based on her familiarity with the local schools via her other patients. 

 

IEPs and 504s are legally required and must be fairly implemented. I know as a parent it is frustrating.  But the reality is, last to sign up goes to the back of the line and there has to be proof for ever accomodation provided to justify the cost.  We chose to homeschool because we weren't willing to risk DS' health in order to prove his need way back when our "only" issue was severe food allergies.  :mellow:

 

Yes, I do know that.

 

Unfortunately, he is at the point where he is refusing to do work at home.  He hates school.  He is bored.  He is angry.  After 15 years of this, I am just so tired and frustrated that I can't do it anymore.

[DawnM]

Yes, in our state they will redefine things.  You would have to take them to court, use an advocate, etc.  This is an ugly, stressful process.  It's why I finally just gave up and walked with what I got, because it wasn't worth one more iota of anything from my family. It was easier to pay for the rest myself than to fight for more.  

 

You should probably figure out for yourself what you're trying to accomplish with the IEP.  Not vague but really specific.  You want them to provide certain therapies?  He needs an aide in class?  Something else??  

 

 

I just want him in the Occupational Program.  That is it.  I don't want anything else from the IEP.  I want him at the OP at the charter school.

 

When I went to speak to the Charter School OP director he said he needs an IEP to get in.  He said he couldn't do it yet, because my son isn't actually a student there until the first day he shows up as a student.  SO, he recommended getting an IEP over the summer at my local school district so that he could start at the charter immediately in the program.

 

However, last night I started thinking that maybe it would be better to talk to the principal of the Charter, who I have heard is wonderful, and explain the situation to her and see what she suggests.  

 

He might even do ok in their smaller classroom environment regular ed for part of the day.  But I don't know if that is an option.

 

The OP is mostly computer based so that they can cater it to the student's needs.  There are only 9 kids in there right now.  They have room for 15.

 

If I could afford the $25K schools around here that cater to his needs, I would send him.  But we can't. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I know not all ASD kids need IEPs. But I also know that if he has one he qualifies to receive an evaluation for an IEP if I request it.

 

I spoke to a Spec. Ed. teacher yesterday. She goes to our church. She was less than helpful and said basically that it isn't fair to the local PS to get an eval from them if my son isn't even going to school there and that she "hates" giving IEPs to homeschoolers. Sigh.

 

After thinking more last night, and feeling that this district won't ever see him in a classroom, I really think maybe putting him in the classroom at the charter is a better idea. Once he is enrolled, I will go and talk to the principal and explain to her what is going on. A friend of mine has a son there who is VERY similar to my son in terms of what issues he has. He is in the Occupational Program. That is all I want, for him to go into the OP. I don't want special accommodations from the regular classroom.

 

I feel like everyone is just telling me to give up.

 

Unfortunately, he falls between some huge cracks.

The school employees probably ARE hoping you will give up. This is a pain for them. Since you aren't immediately jumping through their innefficient, convaluted hoops they are probably REALLY hoping you will give up.

 

However, as far as I can tell, no one who has responded to your post is actually telling you to give up. They are saying this can be HARD. They are being honest. They are all giving you as much advice and knowledge as their experiences allow.

 

This will not be an easy process but that doesn't mean it can't be done. People here want to help. Reread the posts upthread. There is good advice there. Maybe not the answers you were hoping for but still there are useful answers.

 

Best wishes.

[DawnM]

The school employees probably ARE hoping you will give up. This is a pain for them. Since you aren't immediately jumping through their innefficient, convaluted hoops they are probably REALLY hoping you will give up.

 

However, as far as I can tell, no one who has responded to your post is actually telling you to give up. They are saying this can be HARD. They are being honest. They are all giving you as much advice and knowledge as their experiences allow.

 

This will not be an easy process but that doesn't mean it can't be done. People here want to help. Reread the posts upthread. There is good advice there. Maybe not the answers you were hoping for but still there are useful answers.

 

Best wishes.

 

Oh, I didn't mean on this thread, although it is very discouraging to read people's stories and experiences.  Sorry.  I just mean the school district.  The district offices, the local school, and even the Spec. Ed teacher from church who has nothing to do with my district at all.

 

I guess when the guy at the charter said, "Go get it this summer from your school district," I thought it would be a very different experience than what I am receiving.

 

And now I have the strong feeling that the district will insist that THEY evaluate him once he is in the classroom, which I will NOT be putting him into, ever.

 

Dawn

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, I didn't mean on this thread, although it is very discouraging to read people's stories and experiences. Sorry. I just mean the school district. The district offices, the local school, and even the Spec. Ed teacher from church who has nothing to do with my district at all.

 

I guess when the guy at the charter said, "Go get it this summer from your school district," I thought it would be a very different experience than what I am receiving.

 

And now I have the strong feeling that the district will insist that THEY evaluate him once he is in the classroom, which I will NOT be putting him into, ever.

 

Dawn

Hugs.

 

I sympathize. Our local principal for the elementary school is so opposed to providing any services whatsoever that she has jumped through tons of hoops and refused a lot of government money so she can tell parents to basically take a hike. She believes that kids that struggle in school do so because they are lazy and have a bad attitude. Period. I am hoping someone will finally get her removed but it won't be me.

[kbutton]

I just want him in the Occupational Program.  That is it.  I don't want anything else from the IEP.  I want him at the OP at the charter school.

 

When I went to speak to the Charter School OP director he said he needs an IEP to get in.  He said he couldn't do it yet, because my son isn't actually a student there until the first day he shows up as a student.  SO, he recommended getting an IEP over the summer at my local school district so that he could start at the charter immediately in the program.

 

However, last night I started thinking that maybe it would be better to talk to the principal of the Charter, who I have heard is wonderful, and explain the situation to her and see what she suggests.  

 

He might even do ok in their smaller classroom environment regular ed for part of the day.  But I don't know if that is an option.

 

The OP is mostly computer based so that they can cater it to the student's needs.  There are only 9 kids in there right now.  They have room for 15.

 

If I could afford the $25K schools around here that cater to his needs, I would send him.  But we can't. 

 

This is very much like my family and OhE's family needing an IEP for the scholarship money. She got more pushback than me, but I had more data in the social areas and about how my son performs in a classroom. You can request and evaluation, and they have to give you one without enrolling your son in school (just getting the data for an identification number, etc.). You might need to bone up on the school and IEP process terminology--not understanding that leads to big difficulties. Make a cheat sheet so that you can refer to it easily. 

 

If your IEP does not have to be specific to autism or an LD, then see if you can get one for behavioral. If they do that at his level, then that is your ticket. Really. You clearly can paint a picture of what happens when his is in a classroom. Give data points and anecdotes. Get video if you can. If he's been in any group activity in the last three years, document what happened when things weren't going well. Sign him up for some innocuous short-term summer class that you know will push his buttons, document what happened, and have the teacher do that as well (even if it's a hobby class!). I used a lot of older data from my son's three years in school and more recent data from a gifted program we attend. I explained what happens when he misunderstands something and acts under pressure. It was vivid. OhE's son is young enough that the bar is lower, and she doesn't have the same age/track record discrepancy. She will the next time the IEP is updated, and then she'll probably have no trouble (of course, the same personnel may be involved and still be wrong). But she will definitely have more ammo.

 

Don't be discouraged. Be empowered. I think re-reading this information over a few days, comparing it to the terminology online, etc. is a great idea. You are so very frustrated for good reason, but I think if you can see even a tiny, tiny way forward, that crack with add more light to the situation. I really think you can start building a case. We're all trying to help you see how, and it's much easier for you to see how it won't work because the problems are always more obvious than the answers--we've ALL been there! Truly. And if you can pull up the bootstraps a couple more times, we'll be glad to answer questions along the way for you. But, you'll have to summon the energy to look at possibilities that right now look like a big no. We're trying to turn those variables upside down and give a new perspective that we all know is very, very hard to see alone. We'll wait until you've got your boots on and are ready to step into the muck. If you need some time, take it, but don't wait too long. Summer is actually a good time to initiate an IEP because it puts pressure on the school--that clock ticks while they are on break. You can use that pressure to your advantage. Keep slowing the process and dragging (not by being obstructive, but by being helpful and asking lots of questions, not showing your whole hand in a tight spot, etc.). It's worse for them to be out of compliance than for them to have to issue an IEP, I think. 

 

We're in your corner! 

[DawnM]

HEY, HEY, HEY!

 

Good news!!!!!!!!!

 

I got a call from the lead Psychologist for the entire district today.  He was beyond helpful.  He asked me questions and said based on what I have said, he definitely qualifies for an evaluation and they can certainly do that WITHOUT enrolling him first.

 

He asked what I had done so far and I told him about the interaction with the special education teacher and what that teacher told me and he said, "Oh my word, that isn't even correct information!  I am so sorry."  I asked that this particular teacher NOT be on the eval team and he said he fully understood and I could definitely request that.  He also said, "I am glad you called him on that.  He needed to be called on it and I apologize."

 

I also told him that based on their unwillingness to work with me, I have sent certified letters to the school and the district and he said, "That is absolutely what you should have done.  That will get the ball rolling."

 

He asked what I wanted out of the IEP and I told him and he said, "I think that is reasonable."

 

SO, we are moving forward positively now!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh, and he is a homeschool dad!  :hurray:

[PeterPan]

Yay!!!!!!!!   :hurray:   :hurray:  :hurray: 

 

Like you said, you just needed SOMEBODY in your court to help you.  At our school it was the principal.  I could always look over and say is this the way it would be done for any other student in your school and she'd back me up.

 

Well awesome, I'm happy for you.  It's a learning process, and that's rough.  Our State Dept of Ed had a lot of the forms up as pdfs so people could see them ahead.  I didn't realize this when I started, and it made the whole process a lot more mysterious than it needed to be.  So that would be a thing to do, just going onto the dept of ed website for your state and seeing what they have there for forms.  Or find the name of the forms and then google for a pdf.  When I finally saw those (because kbutton told me how to find 'em, lol), things made a LOT more sense.  

 

Well good.  I'm so happy they're helping you.  You pay taxes just like all the other people, and they should serve you just like anyone else.  I actually had someone at the school tell me I had given up my FAPE by homeschooling, and that is NOT legally true!!!  They'll just make up anything.  But think about that, that in their minds, at least that person, they were justified in denying me things because I had supposedly given up my rights by choosing to homeschool.  Baloney.  We pay taxes, plenty of taxes, and we have the legal right to walk in and get certain things.  Maybe not everything in every state, but you DO have rights.  

 

Well good.  Keep us posted.  :)

[Lecka]

Awesome!

[kbutton]

WOW!!! That should relieve some serious stress! Please keep us in the loop as this goes along.

[DawnM]

And now I have gotten TWO more calls from the school.  One an apology from the VP for the special ed teacher.  

 

Now they are being clear, concise, and straightforward!  WHOOHOO!

[prairiewindmomma]

Fantastic!

[MomatHWTK]

:hurray:

[OneStepAtATime]

Totally awesome!!!!

[DawnM]

Yay!!!!!!!!   :hurray:   :hurray:  :hurray: 

 

Like you said, you just needed SOMEBODY in your court to help you.  At our school it was the principal.  I could always look over and say is this the way it would be done for any other student in your school and she'd back me up.

 

Well awesome, I'm happy for you.  It's a learning process, and that's rough.  Our State Dept of Ed had a lot of the forms up as pdfs so people could see them ahead.  I didn't realize this when I started, and it made the whole process a lot more mysterious than it needed to be.  So that would be a thing to do, just going onto the dept of ed website for your state and seeing what they have there for forms.  Or find the name of the forms and then google for a pdf.  When I finally saw those (because kbutton told me how to find 'em, lol), things made a LOT more sense.  

 

Well good.  I'm so happy they're helping you.  You pay taxes just like all the other people, and they should serve you just like anyone else.  I actually had someone at the school tell me I had given up my FAPE by homeschooling, and that is NOT legally true!!!  They'll just make up anything.  But think about that, that in their minds, at least that person, they were justified in denying me things because I had supposedly given up my rights by choosing to homeschool.  Baloney.  We pay taxes, plenty of taxes, and we have the legal right to walk in and get certain things.  Maybe not everything in every state, but you DO have rights.  

 

Well good.  Keep us posted.   :)

 

 

What kind of forms am I looking for?

 

What is a FAPE?

 

I admit that even after 17 years in public education, special education is still quite foreign to me.  I just never dealt with the special education department.  The little that I knew pertained to CA state and even that is far different in NC.

 

Can you give me any buzzwords or phrases I should know and be familiar with?

 

I have just ordered a book and since the IEP officially won't take place until they are staffed the week of July 6th, I have time to read through it and read some online and take notes and LOOK like I know what I am talking about.

 

Thanks,

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

Dawn, Kbutton is right here.  There are a shocking number of kids in the ps with ASD with NO IEP.  It doesn't matter if your dc has ASD.  It's not that ASD automatically gets you an IEP, anymore than any other condition.  It's only if the condition prevents the dc from receiving a free and appropriate public education by their measures and observation.  They don't give a rip what he did at home, and it may be that he will act differently, at least initially, in the school environment.  I know because that's what happened to us.  In fact, they even got more bizarre.  The observer watched him in a classroom but not in social settings like a playground and then filled out none of the social questions on the forms even though we're talking a social diagnosis!!  

 

To get an ASD label by the school for an IEP you have to fight, at least in our area.  There's big, big, big, BIG money involved, and they're not going to accept your evals.  They also don't have the team to do evals.  So basically, in our area you have to go pay for them privately, using a place that does multi-faceted (SLP, OT, psych, etc. all in the practice, all concurring), which means basically a hospital eval, which is a place that at least around here uses students.  

 

If he doesn't do for them in the classroom the things he's been doing to you at home, they won't care about his long-standing ASD label.  If he can receive an education in their setting, even if it's by ugly means (like he just shuts down or goes home and melts down every day), they don't care.  His ASD label will NOT automatically get him an IEP.  

 

Maybe what you should do is consider finding an IEP advocate in your state and talking with them.  They'll know your state laws and how your district rolls.  They can come with you to meetings if you want.  They can soundboard and help you determine if the school is being straight.  This is not a fair process or one that's likely to go like you thought.  You're going to have a team of people without qualifications making important decisions about your child's care in the school.  You *do* have legal rights to fight it, but you have to know the law and be very calm about it.  This is the hardest scenario.

 

The curious thing to me, and I'm just being straight, is to wonder what actually *would* happen with him in a school environment.  I have no doubt what you said is true about his behavior.  It's also true that things can be surprising.  If you really feel he needs this IEP, you're probably going to need an advocate.  How to find one?  Call around, google...

 

 

Well, I could always go with the academic angle.  In 8th grade his reading and writing performance was at a 3rd grade level.  

[kbutton]

What kind of forms am I looking for?

 

What is a FAPE?

 

I admit that even after 17 years in public education, special education is still quite foreign to me.  I just never dealt with the special education department.  The little that I knew pertained to CA state and even that is far different in NC.

 

Can you give me any buzzwords or phrases I should know and be familiar with?

 

I have just ordered a book and since the IEP officially won't take place until they are staffed the week of July 6th, I have time to read through it and read some online and take notes and LOOK like I know what I am talking about.

 

Thanks,

 

Dawn

 

Forget that you've ever been a teacher in a school. Seriously. It's probably not going to help you out--you will try to talk yourself into thinking that this should be a reasoned and rewarding process, that these are all friendlies (hopefully they are, but maybe not), this is "your" territory. That's a dangerous line of thought when you need to be an advocate and need to try to stay in control (quietly and casually) of the process. What most teachers know about special education (the nuts and bolts of how it happens, etc.) would probably fit in a thimble. That's not knocking teachers; I think it's typically something that administration and the spec. ed. people handle with minimal input from classroom teachers. At least that's the vibe I get from teachers I know in real life. Most of them don't even like to contemplate the exceptional side of things--their jobs are big and broad enough without all of that.

 

FAPE = Free and Appropriate Public Education, and one of the guiding principles is that this education takes place in the least restrictive environment. LRE is a term you want to know. IDEA is the federal guidelines for individuals with disabilities. Our state has an IDEA booklet and uses IDEA definitions to qualify children for services. http://idea.ed.gov/and http://www.parentcenterhub.org/repository/idea/ 

 

http://ec.ncpublicschools.gov/policies/forms/statewide-forms  I recommend printing a screen capture or something with this page on it, and then downloading and viewing the links. You can then annotate the list, and you also have a visual prompt every time you need to revisit the site or talk to people about the forms. Some of the forms will not apply, but you'll have to figure it out form by form. These documents will likely all be bundled together at the end, but they are used by administration in pieces and parts during the process. The law states just how these forms are used and the timing of them. You have to sign in about a million places. This is both a pain, a confusing element, and a safeguard to be sure you aren't turning down things you have a right to know about. However, informed consent is usually minimal--they tell you only what they have to, and they may or may not tell you the entire significance of it--just as much as they have to in order to comply with the law. They will be sure to talk about how laborious it is to fill out all these forms, but look how they are taking care of you...see, if your child spoke English as a second language, they would have to get an interpreter or have them tested in their native language! It's sort of smoke and mirrors that they use so that you won't see them downplay the parts that apply to you. :-) 

 

***DEC 2/Prior Notice is probably the MOST IMPORTANT form you need early in this process. Check all the boxes. I repeat, check all the boxes. This sheet determines just how many rocks they'll turn over in looking for issues. If they don't turn over all the rocks, you are letting them potentially miss something important, and they won't necessarily let you go back later. The Other box is very important. You can try to have specific tests and results included here (outside psych reports, your own data, a specific test you want run or have had run). It's good if you can find out what tests they run in each category (it varies with age, expense and sensitivity of the test, what they are qualified to administer, etc.).

 

Eligibility Determination DEC 3 is a huge deal. Read those checkboxes!!! This is your guide to be sure all the rocks were turned over, all the evidence is in, and the best case has been made for giving your child an IEP. If any of these metrics are not met, then he doesn't get an IEP. So, measure all the data that you bring and the school brings to see if it meets this test. BTW, you probably won't see the school's data until the big meeting, so make sure you can make a decent case yourself. Don't assume that the team will interpret the data--the IEP team members won't see each other's work or your data until they get to sit at the table together. You MUST connect all the dots between the data and make the case for how that means your son needs an IEP. You must use their criteria, their data, etc. along with yours (and yours needs to be specific (data and anecdotes from the past 1-3 years), and you must make a case with it. You can't assume anything. They will show up at a meeting, discuss the highlights of what they've never clapped eyes on before that moment, and then vote (you don't have sign anything then--you can take time to think about it), but they will not be deliberating a long time, more than likely. If anything is nuanced, you must make it plain and direct. No inferencing required on the part of those who have a vote.

 

I strongly recommend this book, not just books about laws and rights: http://www.amazon.com/When-School-Says-How-Get/dp/1849059179 .It's not about law--it's about the process and about how to gain consensus about your student's needs. The idea is that if everyone can agree about the need (based on evidence), then they can't really deny you whatever remediation that need requires. The tricky part is to document that need and to keep the cart in front of the horse. The book gives great examples of what that means. If you allow them to rush the process before you get consensus on the need, then you will lose the game. It also has ideas about what to do when that isn't working--how to still get something as close as possible to what you need.