Dr. Mosely says its OK to use calculator in PreAlg -- Is that normal? Thanks!!

[Beth in SW WA]

Also, which calculator should I buy?

Thanks!!

[Hoggirl]

For Pre-algebra, (and I did use Chalkdust and am still using it for Algebra) I generally looked over solutions and allowed ds to ONLY use a calculator if the arithmetic "got in the way" of the concept. And, sometimes, I would make him do the arithmetic anyway. So, I would look at the solutions to the problems I assigned and would write "C" in pencil next to the problems on which I allowed a calculator. So, basically, on some big ol' % or decimal-type problems where the division would carry on forever, etc. I bought a TI-83 Plus graphing calculator to use this year, but you wouldn't need it for Pre-Algebra. Prof. Mosely suggests this one or the TI-84. The higher number is newer/fancier, but on the DVDs we have for Algebra I, the 83 model is the one that is shown on-screen. I don't think there are too many differences between them, but I thought it would be easier if the one shown on the DVDs was exactlylike the one my ds would be using.

HTH.

Cynthia

[Hoggirl]

nt

[HSKLNG]

...my dd worked without calculator for a long time. Then I bought her a TI-34 II Explorer plus sometime in 2006 and have her using it. She knows how to do the problems without it, that's why it was ok for me to buy her one. Before that, I let her use cheap ones to learn the hows of all the buttons.

 

She did Pre-Algebra with and without calculator, with Algebra at this time.

 

Last year I got her the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition for her to use this year and we have not opened it yet. Soon, though.

 

Everytime I see her using the calculator to often, I request the problems done by hand or explain to me orally to make sure that she understands what she is doing. I consider NOT using a calculator an art on these days, that I want her to cultivate and keep. You never know.

 

HTH

[Beth in SW WA]

HSKLNG,

Where did you buy your calculator? I see Amazon has it w/ the Dummies book for $134'ish. Is that a good price?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-TI-84-Graphing-Calculator/dp/B0001EMM0Q

 

Cynthia, Thanks for your help, also. Do the Algebra dvd's show Prof. Mosely using the TI-83? Would it be a pain if we had a different model?

 

As for CD, we are loving it. My ds 12 thinks it is such a great math program. I can see us continuing all the way w/ Prof. Mosely.

 

Also, Cynthia, Your bold is a nice touch :)

 

Thanks again!

[Gwen in VA]

We let the kids start using a non-graphing calculator "full-time" starting with algebra 1.

 

Before algebra 1 we just let the kids plug and chug. I have a 6th grader doing pre-algebra this year, and she is working through compound interest right now. Talk about painful! But it builds character and math ability. I keep assuring her that in less than 180 days she will have access to a calculator full-time!

[Hoggirl]

I bought mine at Wal-mart (dh works for them), but they didn't have the TI-84. I don't think it would make much difference. Prof. Mosely suggested the TI-84 Plus, but I was just chicken. For *me* I wanted it to match the screen. Not that it matters...ds doesn't have the fear of technology that I have. I got the Dummies book, too (separately), but we haven't used it. Also, even though there are GOBS of buttons on it, he tells you early on that they will be introduced on a "need-to-know" basis.

HTH!

Cynthia! Yea! I made it go away!:)

[Sharon in MD]

Especially if you think your kids will go on to college maths. We are using Foerster for PreCalculus and it requires the use of the grapher. I like the fact though that his problem sets and tests have "no calculator" sections as well. But, you really could not use his course with out it. You really need it to "see" the solutions and to understand what you solving. It makes a huge difference in solving complicated problems, especially where they need to find solutions to multiple equations, find minimums and maximums and so forth. I think there is a lot of value in a visual solution. Plus, it beats the daylights out of trig tables!

 

Another thing to consider is that if a student is going to take the SAT or ACT, and will be using a calculator, they should be very familiar with it or it will actually be a handicap. Do you "need" one on the tests? No, you don't, but they can make some problems faster to solve. Also, a college math instructor told me that he has seen homeschooled kids somewhat handicapped in college math because they have not learned how to use their graphing calculators. I decided right then that we would learn how to harness it.

 

We have a TI-84 plus silver and a TI-89. The 89 was purchased with engineering in mind and because there have been too many times this last year when both ds and I needed to use a graphing calculator at the same time. The reason to buy the 84 over the 83 is that it has a much bigger memory which will not matter at first, but by the time you hit precalc and trig it will matter. The 83 is much slower at graphing complex problems. And the 84 is much slower than the 89, but you can't use the 89 on the SAT or

ACT. You will not have any trouble using an 84 if the demos are done on the 83.

 

One last important point. The manual that comes with any of these calculators is extremely incomplete and won't really teach you how to use it. I'd recommend either the dummies guide (I bought one for the 89) or the complete users manual from TI's website. They are downloadable in pdf form and invaluable. I keep it on the desktop of the pc, we use it that much.

 

Anyway, hope this is helpful to some!

[MaryM]

Agree that it is important to learn how to use a calculator but we only started it with Algebra. If a student has a solid foundation in actually doing the math, they can do it faster on their own many times than with the calculator but more importantly, the practice w/o the calculators cements the concepts nicely.

 

Btw, the TI-89 is allowed on the SAT but not the ACT.

 

Mary

[AngieW in Texas]

I let my kids have a regular calculator (basic four functions along with square root) starting with algebra. I figure I'll get them a graphing calculator when they start Algebra II or precalc.

[Gwen in VA]

One other thought for those with students going into math/science --

 

On tests college profs don't always allow calculators. They do this to make sure that the student really knows how to DO the problem and not just set it up on the calculator. Obviously these problems are less math-intensive, but they will still involve the student being comfortable solving simple stuff with pencil and paper.

 

Unless your child has some kind of diability, I would make sure that he is REALLY comfortable solving basic math problems (even three and four digit long division and compound interest problems) without a calculator. Make your child continues to do some math, especially riview problems, without a calculator.

 

I absolutely agree that you should make ABSOLUTELY sure that your child is comfortable with a calculator before he uses it in a testing situation, but just using the calculator for math for a few months should do the trick.

[Jean in Wisc]

My first 2 started using one in Alg 1. My youngest, however, struggles so with calculations. It occurred to me that if he could use the calculator, he might succeed in math in a way he has not done before. I need to keep tabs on his work now to see if he is doing any better now that he has the calculator--he's in pre-alg.

 

----------------------

 

O.K. I just asked him how much he uses the calculator. He says he uses it on the really long math calculations. His mind has a way of jumping through problems on its own--and along the way, he skips and deletes parts of the process. He has has learning problems all his life, and math has been one where he cannot keep the numbers in head head long enough to get the right answer.

 

He says the calculator has been helping a lot, and he gets a lot more of the answers correct.

 

So there it is.

 

:-)

[Anne/Ankara]

There were a few lessons that required the calculator, but not that many. But we did feel it was important to get to learn how to use the calcultor, but not rely on it too much.

[Michelle in GA]

My dc begin using claculators with Algebra I, although there are some problems in Chalkdust Pre Algebra that I break that rule for. Also- just a friendly warning: Let your kids do pre- calc and calculus without a calculator if they plan on attendning a college that does not allow them. My son is at GA Tech and was more than a little surprised at the," no calculator on tests" rule. I don't know if this rule only applies to Tech schools or not, but be prepared just in case! :)

[Charon]

When I was a TA at Ohio State, I was perfectly willing to let people use calculators for quizzes and such. To the chagrin of a large portion of my students, on one assignment, they all got a point deducted for writing down "1.999" instead of "2" for the answer. All of those guys apparently thought that the square root of two was equal to 1.414. Personally, I never used a calculator until I started taking Actuarial Exams. And, what I really use for that kind of stuff is Microsoft Excel (or Gnumeric, actually).

 

There was a big debate about the role of calculators when I was still in academia. Frankly, I never cared. You can use all the calculators you want in my class. It won't help you.

[coffeegal]

One other thought for those with students going into math/science --

 

On tests college profs don't always allow calculators. They do this to make sure that the student really knows how to DO the problem and not just set it up on the calculator. Obviously these problems are less math-intensive, but they will still involve the student being comfortable solving simple stuff with pencil and paper.

 

And sometimes one forgets to bring her calculator to a 400 level statistics final...:eek: Knowing how to do the math longhand can REALLY save your bacon at times. :D

[Hilary in MI]

My oldest started using the TI-84 graphing calculator in Algebra I; my youngest started part-way through this year, in Pre-algebra (same reasons as Jean in Wisc, above).

 

At the beginning levels the kids are not graphing, but they get comfortable with the keys, etc. I also think the screens are fantastic--we can easily see any typos.

 

My dc must show their work in detail, writing each step. This shows that they know why they are pushing the buttons and, more importantly, helps them develop mathematical reasoning.

 

In the beginning they protest that they can do some problems in their heads, so I explain that they not only are learning the concepts but developing habits essential to success in higher math (taking it step by step, writing neatly in columns, showing work, etc.).

[Beth in SW WA]

Thank you all for your input. Prof. Mosely emailed me back and suggested we go for the TI-84.

[Cindyg]

Wow! You're a tough teacher! :) I remember my first day of Human Anatomy and Physiology the prof said something to the effect of, "Half of you are going to flunk this class." How encouraging! I don't know if half flunked, but it was a very hard class!

[Susan in IL]

Also- just a friendly warning: Let your kids do pre- calc and calculus without a calculator if they plan on attendning a college that does not allow them. :)

 

My ds attends a school that only allows a TI-30II for all math and science, including pre-calc, Calc., Chem I & II, Organic Chem I&II, and Calc. based Physics. He hasn't had BioChem, or Stats yet so he doesn't know about those. He left his TI-83 at home.