maths tests

[kiwik]

Hi. Could you just confirm something for me?

 

I read heaps of complaints about kids failing tests because they didn't 'show' how they worked out 7+8 or something.

 

I saw a test ds8 did last week (unusual to see it) and I couldn't see how they could do any working. It was 2 A4 sheets compressed on to one. The extra working space was about 1 by 5 cm. The Kids would have had to have tiny writing to fit in any more than the answer. The first half or so was OK but the second half had 3 digit addition and subtraction which basically had to be done entirely mentally. Does this strike you as odd?

[Tsuga]

I would expect them to be able to regroup in a very small space and to use the area around the space for regrouping.

 

As for the legends of common core ruining lives / requiring a PhD in math to do a single addition problem, it hasn't come to pass here. My kids are getting basically the same math education I got, with the exception of more diagrams and optional write-your-logic sections. You get points off for not showing work at all, but not full points off. And indeed, the same was the case when I was in K-1-2 in 1982-4.

[Grover]

kiwik, you're here in NZ, aren't you?  It will be a NumPa / numeracy project assessment, and yes, they are meant to do it mentally / without "regrouping" etc.  Algorithms are not taught until much later if at all under the current regime.  I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that that'show they do it at the moment. 

[kiwik]

yes Grover in NZ. I think he is not physically capable of writing that small. He could have done the problem mentally in normal circumstances but he must have been having an off day. I am all for mental arithmetic but in that format it seemed to ask for guesswork. I also think it was a pretest but like I said it is pretty rare to see a test. I was just surprised because DS is one of the better maths students and he made a lot of mistakes and struggle to fit the answers in the spaces.

[Tsuga]

kiwik, you're here in NZ, aren't you?  It will be a NumPa / numeracy project assessment, and yes, they are meant to do it mentally / without "regrouping" etc.  Algorithms are not taught until much later if at all under the current regime.  I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that that'show they do it at the moment. 

 

How would you mentally do three-digit subtraction without regrouping??? Or you mean, without writing down the regrouping?

[kiwik]

 

How would you mentally do three-digit subtraction without regrouping??? Or you mean, without writing down the regrouping?[/quote

 

387-190=387-200+10

 

It must be difficult for kids whose working memories aren't good.

[SKL]

 

How would you mentally do three-digit subtraction without regrouping??? Or you mean, without writing down the regrouping?[/quote

 

387-190=387-200+10

 

It must be difficult for kids whose working memories aren't good.

 

Yes.  One of mine at 8yo is just starting to be good at breaking down numbers and finding shortcuts.  But they expected her to do these kinds of problems (mentally) well over a year ago.  She told me she did them "apartment style in her head."  Whatever works.  It's not like they are going to need to apply these skills IRL any time soon.  I don't understand what the hurry is with some of the stuff Singapore does.

[Grover]

 

387-190=387-200+10

 

 

or 390 - 100 = 290 - 90 = 200 - 3 = 197

 

or 400 - 200 = 200 - 13 + 10 = 197

[kiwik]

or 390 - 100 = 290 - 90 = 200 - 3 = 197

 

or 400 - 200 = 200 - 13 + 10 = 197

And it is the way I do things mostly despite being taught using new maths textbooks in a rote manner. But he is going to need to write things down in higher maths. Do you happen to know when they let them use a pencil and paper? Not so much for using algorithms but for sketching,trying different methods and checking their work.

[Grover]

. Do you happen to know when they let them use a pencil and paper? Not so much for using algorithms but for sketching,trying different methods and checking their work.

 

In most schools, not until intermediate / high school age.  HIgh school maths teachers hate the numeracy project.

[Tsuga]

 

 

How would you mentally do three-digit subtraction without regrouping??? Or you mean, without writing down the regrouping?[/quote

 

387-190=387-200+10

 

It must be difficult for kids whose working memories aren't good.

 

To me, that is regrouping.

[kiwik]

In most schools, not until intermediate / high school age. HIgh school maths teachers hate the numeracy project.

It must be difficult to teach kids to write out their working and check their work when they are used to doing everything mentally. Ds8 told me that year fours are expected to know the answer without writing so I guess he will feel like a failure when he can't. Lucky we are doing the Process Skills books.

 

Tsuga. Guess our terminology is a bit different.

[VANURSEPRAC]

 

How would you mentally do three-digit subtraction without regrouping??? Or you mean, without writing down the regrouping?[/quote

 

387-190=387-200+10

 

It must be difficult for kids whose working memories aren't good.

 

 

This is the way I have always done math in my head and always assumed it was because I was too dumb to do 387-190=387.

 

I never new this was mental math......well good to know I am not as dumb as I think.