Storygirl Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 We're visiting a few schools to consider for the fall, and although we are leaning toward choosing a private Christian school, we wanted to visit the public elementary school to get a feel for the environment and see what they might have to offer. We went in on Friday morning and had a little tour by the principal. She was friendly in a businesslike but impersonal way; I thought she could be more welcoming but decided that she might be stressed, due to it being one of the last few days of school. But there were a few things about our interaction that bothered me. As we walked along, I said that we had NP reports for two of our kids (we have one in hand, and the other will be complete before school starts) and that we thought they would probably need IEPs. She cut me off and said, "You need to know that you can't just walk in here and say you want an IEP." I was taken aback. I just replied that I knew the laws and understood that there is a process. She did not ask anything about what our actual educational concerns are but just went on with the tour..."And here is the gym." A little later I asked if they will do any simple accommodations for DS's ADHD before the IEP is in place, and she cut me off again to say that children with ADHD do not automatically get an IEP (yes I know this). I said that I understood but wanted to know if we could request for him to sit at the front of the classroom (for example). She did say, almost grudgingly, that that was a possibility. She was really close-mouthed about any services that they offer and did not volunteer even a smidgen of information, although when I asked directly she did say they have an O-G teacher on staff (but only for students who have it specified in their IEP). She went on to explain that the children would need to be enrolled for a period of time so that the teachers could get to know them. Then if the teachers had identified any needs, they would have some kind of meeting together to discuss it. Only then if they decided that it was necessary, would they call the parents in for a meeting. I had a definite feeling that she had no interest in listening to the parents' concerns; it was all about what the teachers thought. She definitely put out a this-is-our-business-not-yours attitude. Her attitude was dismissive. (Now, I do realize that I have the right under the law to request evaluations, but I did not bring that up, as I was not about to confront her on the law in that moment.) During the tour, she brought up at least twice that the school was at capacity and needed more teachers. She suggested that we were not actually in that school's service area (we live in a kind of outlier neighborhood) but then conceded that we did. She perked up when we mentioned that we were also touring a few private schools and said (in her most enthusiastic response of the whole visit) that there were some excellent private schools nearby. I felt unwelcome. And I thought it odd that although she asked my children what their names were, she did not ask their ages or grades. She really showed no interest in them. DH chalked that up to being an administrator rather than a teacher, but I don't know. I mean she runs a school; she should show at least a minor interest in children that might be attending. I hope we find a private school that we think will work. I don't feel like going back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 That sounds yucky. At least you know now what the public school's principal is like and what you might encounter when trying to get an IEP or even just an evaluation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I'm sorry. That's very frustrating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Blech. I can almost see her body language and attitude. And how to respond? These sorts of exchanges cut off all hanging threads you can pull to sustain a dialog. Either she didn't want to hear anything meaningful, or she didn't want to leave any details open for you to explore. I'm so sorry. That's an unsettling experience. It does sound like she is stressed about resources; however, I think her dismissive attitude is a red flag a mile wide, even if the rest could be chalked up to stress. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Wow. Very unwelcoming. But I'm glad you got a clear idea of what to expect from the school and its administrators. Better to know now than later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 well at least it makes not going there an easy choice? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Yes, in a way it makes things easier. One less school to put on our list of contenders. And this school only goes through fifth grade. My youngest children will be in fourth, so if we had to choose to go there, at least we would only have to deal with her for two years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'm guessing either she is about to retire, or she has recently dealt with a very high maintenance parent. But I hope you have much better luck at the private schools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Here's the other problem. If they're low on funding (because they're maxed out, the way she was saying), then they're going to offer your kids spartan little. Our school painted it like they were putting an astonishing amount into our IEP, and it's 60 minutes a week with an intervention specialist. Not OG, just some lady, and that's 15 minutes a day, not the hour he would really need. So I don't know everything, but I think our school was able to be generous because they're "Titled" meaning they have extra Title 1 (?) funding from the state for being a poor district. Your district sees you walking in the door with multiple kids needing lots of accommodations and evals and they're seeing the impact on their budget. And no, legally you can request that eval in writing and get it done. But yes, I think you're reading her correctly for how it would be to work with you, and that's unfortunate as the principal is the one you really want as the easy person in your court, sigh. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 A possible piece of good news is that if we end up going to a private school that is in a neighboring school district, the actual evaluations would be conducted by that local school, not the one that we just visited. The unwelcoming school would then have to take the evaluation results and write the IEP, but if they knew they were not actually going to have to be the ones to provide the services, maybe they would be a little easier to work with. Yes, I think that she was probably preoccupied with her inner thoughts about how she would make room in the already-full classes for my kids and how having more learning challenges to deal with would be unfortunate for her. That 15 minutes a day really stinks, Elizabeth. I mean it takes that long just to get a lesson started. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I would have been very put off too. That said, the principal at our PS is much like her, yet the individual teachers have been great and all my concerns have been addressed by them, not by her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Yikes, how frustrating. I hope that your next school visit goes much better! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Story, part of the evals are paid for by medicaid, not the ps budget. So don't feel bad asking for evals. I'm not sure how many are, but I know the psych bills to medicaid. And check, because I think it's first year ETR and IEP by the private school's ps district and the renewal by your district of residence. That would be weird to have a team making an IEP when they didn't do the evals, kwim? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Stay away, stay far, far away! So sorry you were treated poorly. I hope you find a school that fits. FWIW, our local elementary principal very strongly does not believe that learning challenges like dyslexia and dysgraphia exist. She believes it is lazy children with indulgent parents that started this "trend" of IEPs and 504s. She so strongly doesn't believe these things exist that she has jumped through every loophole she can find to avoid providing any evals/services for students in her school and has refused government money on several occasions so she has more control. She has made lives miserable for many families but because standardized test scores are better than most other schools in the area and she has been the only principal since the school opened 20 some odd years ago she is popular and keeps her job. Which is one big reason we started homeschooling... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Stay away, stay far, far away! So sorry you were treated poorly. I hope you find a school that fits. FWIW, our local elementary principal very strongly does not believe that learning challenges like dyslexia and dysgraphia exist. She believes it is lazy children with indulgent parents that started this "trend" of IEPs and 504s. She so strongly doesn't believe these things exist that she has jumped through every loophole she can find to avoid providing any evals/services for students in her school and has refused government money on several occasions so she has more control. She has made lives miserable for many families but because standardized test scores are better than most other schools in the area and she has been the only principal since the school opened 20 some odd years ago she is popular and keeps her job. Which is one big reason we started homeschooling... WOW! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 WOW! Yes. And as a bonus, she is my neighbor. We have lived here roughly 10 years. Never, in all that time, has she ever said hi or even waved. Her husband has. He even came to get me when a pack of dogs killed our cat in his yard. But her? Nope. Nothing. I used to say hi or wave whenever I saw her. I like to maintain a good relationship with neighbors. I finally gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 OneStep, on the one hand I totally agree that raises your eyebrows. On the other hand, just to think with her a minute, I wonder if there's a sense in which some schools are using diagnoses to excuse their failure to teach kids? We've talked on the board here about the discrimination of low expectations. That doesn't help YOUR kids if the school's teaching methods aren't including what your kids need to succeed. But it is true high expectations help a LOT. The ps here has been blown away, because I walk in wanting so much and expecting so much. To them it's usually well he's K5, maybe someday, and for me it's NO, he's gifted, this is what he should be doing, it's not happening, I want him to have all the tools NOW. Expectations matter. I don't even expect reading, and I was talking about that in another thread. I expect SUCCESS. And if his success is ear-reading, I'm cool with that. But I do think there's a sense in which if a kid gets labels and 15 minutes of intervention with someone not trained in OG there isn't really an expectation of success. Our area doesn't expect to be able to help those kids succeed. They just do what they have funding for, what they're required to do, and shove them through. Success or failure of the approach doesn't matter. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Eight years ago...Yes, literally eight years ago I called the local ps and spoke with the special ed services provider and received the same song and dance. The needs are great. Too many children and not enough funding. I have no confidence in the system. OhE is absolutely correct; The ps expectations are too low. The best thing we ever did was not placing our kids in a ps to have their souls crushed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I agree, high expectations are important. We don't want to short change our kids. The local principal is...scary. And has become increasingly hostile towards any child that falls behind, for any reason. A childhood friend of DDs has dysgraphia. Frequently, he was forced to stay after school in the principal's office writing and rewriting his class assignments. She told his parents that his handwriting was bad because they let him get away with bad handwriting and dysgraphia was a diagnosis made up by greedy doctors who cater to indulgent parents. She belittled their son, called him lazy, told him he would amount to nothing. In 3rd grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Stay away, stay far, far away! So sorry you were treated poorly. I hope you find a school that fits. FWIW, our local elementary principal very strongly does not believe that learning challenges like dyslexia and dysgraphia exist. She believes it is lazy children with indulgent parents that started this "trend" of IEPs and 504s. She so strongly doesn't believe these things exist that she has jumped through every loophole she can find to avoid providing any evals/services for students in her school and has refused government money on several occasions so she has more control. She has made lives miserable for many families but because standardized test scores are better than most other schools in the area and she has been the only principal since the school opened 20 some odd years ago she is popular and keeps her job. Which is one big reason we started homeschooling... OneStep, that is terrible! I can't believe that her superintendent doesn't bring her in line with the law and modern thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I agree, high expectations are important. We don't want to short change our kids. The local principal is...scary. And has become increasingly hostile towards any child that falls behind, for any reason. A childhood friend of DDs has dysgraphia. Frequently, he was forced to stay after school in the principal's office writing and rewriting his class assignments. She told his parents that his handwriting was bad because they let him get away with bad handwriting and dysgraphia was a diagnosis made up by greedy doctors who cater to indulgent parents. She belittled their son, called him lazy, told him he would amount to nothing. In 3rd grade. This makes me want to cry. I have to believe that she has never actually watched a child with dysgraphia write, or a child with dyslexia try to sound out a difficult word. When I watch my son do either, the huge amount of effort is obvious. It's heartbreaking that after completing what for them is a difficult, laborious task, a dyslexic/dysgraphic child would be called lazy. :( 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 This makes me want to cry. I have to believe that she has never actually watched a child with dysgraphia write, or a child with dyslexia try to sound out a difficult word. When I watch my son do either, the huge amount of effort is obvious. It's heartbreaking that after completing what for them is a difficult, laborious task, a dyslexic/dysgraphic child would be called lazy. :( Agreed. The effort is tremendous. They try so hard. Yes, if they are belittled and told they are lazy they may very well reach a point where they don't try any more. Why bother when your best effort is not good enough? They don't start out that way, though. Its heartbreaking. Honestly, I have shed many tears over the treatment some of the kids get at that school. I know not all schools are like this. Many schools are quite helpful and have teachers and administrators that genuinely care. I applaud them. Teaching and running a school are hard jobs. But some people should not be in education at all. On the flip side of the learning challenges coin, the principal was wiggy about the gifted program, too. Another of DD's classmates at the little private school we ended up putting her in was there specifically because of the principal at the ps elementary. She had learning issues (not dyslexia but her processing speed was nearly nil, and her working memory was super low and she struggled in every subject). Her brother, who is gifted, was in the GT program at the same school. He thrived in the GT program. The kids in GT are treated like rock stars, giving tons of privileges, etc.. Anyway, without any testing or permission or knowledge of the parents, the principal decided to put the daughter into the GT program, too, even though she was barely surviving in a standard classroom. The daughter floundered terribly and her self-esteem plummeted as soon as she started in the GT classes. She begged her mom to get her out. The mom went to the principal to have her put back in normal classes and to find out why she had been shifted to GT in the first place. The principal told her that she (the parent) was being "rewarded" for all her help at the school. The parent explained that she didn't want a "reward" and that her child really needed to be put back in normal classes. The principal refused and told her it wasn't her choice but the school's. She appealed and was told the same thing from the Superintendent. The mom pulled her out mid-year and put her at the little school DD ended up going to for a while. Bottom line, I don't think our principal should be in education. OP, hoping you find a great fit for your situation. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 How appalling. I am so very sorry you had to deal with that person. I hope you can find a good fit at private school. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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