An interesting take on the enormous wealth of the Ivies.

[FloridaLisa]

This article came across my feed this morning (from my brother and the only one in my memory to go to an Ivy).  I surely don't have my knickers in a knot over this kind of thing, since I tend to think folks can donate or use the money they have as they want. BUT, it was enlightening to see again just how much the Ivies have in ongoing permanent endowment funds. Wow!

 

By way of comparison, our state's flagship university has just under 2 billion in its endowment as far as I can tell.  

 

 

[BlsdMama]

You piqued my curiousity. I found this additionally:

 

 

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2015/01/13/10-universities-with-the-largest-financial-endowments

 

 

Our state flagship has over one billion. Interesting.

[Laura Corin]

Interesting.  I looked it up, and Oxford and Cambridge have four to five billion pounds each ( 6-8 billion USD).

 

The fee structure is quite different however ( USD13,500 per UK student per year), so like all UK universities, they are chasing the overseas dollar.

[plansrme]

Wow.  That was pretty mind-boggling.  I agree that rich people (like any people) can give their money to whomever they want, but yeah--if I had tens of millions to give, I can't imagine that Yale would be the best use of that money.

[maize]

It does seem those resources could have a bigger impact if not limited to such a small number of students.

[Lori D.]

You piqued my curiousity. I found this additionally: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2015/01/13/10-universities-with-the-largest-financial-endowments Our state flagship has over one billion. Interesting.

 

Me too!:)

 

I checked for our 3 state universities (Wikipedia). Apparently, we're a poor state, with 2 schools having total endowments of a bit over $600 million, and 1 just under $100 million… That certainly explains the very stingy scholarships and very high tuition… :(

[Teachin'Mine]

The recent 150M donation to Yale is for a specific project, but it's the large endowments which enable these schools to be so generous with their financial aid.  It's also interesting to see the endowments broken down to an amount per student.  http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html The link only shows the figures for a limited number of schools, but you can calculate it for others.   It's also a good idea to take into account the tuition and COA at the schools when comparing as less financial aid is needed per student if the COA is lower. 

 

Lori that's a problem in a lot of states.  Relatively smaller endowments make it harder for the state universities to attract students who need aid, but can contribute regarding campus involvement and service and who would be likely to be generous in their alumni donations should they be able to do so in the future.  They can't give away money they don't have and any cuts in state aid are felt by all the students.

 

[Crimson Wife]

He's claiming that 99% of those Yale students whose families make between $100k & $200k receive aid but those percentages are only of those students who apply for aid. The ones who apply are presumably those with personal circumstances making them have a greater need for aid than those with similar family incomes who don't apply.

 

My family was upper-middle-class and I didn't apply for aid because my family had savings earmarked for my tuition, my siblings were 4 & 8 years younger so we were never in college at the same time, and there weren't any unusual circumstances like high medical bills. Another student with the same income but little or no savings, other siblings in college at the same time, and/or big expenses would presumably have applied (and likely received) aid.

[Crimson Wife]

It does seem those resources could have a bigger impact if not limited to such a small number of students.

 

Not to sound snotty, but the kids who get accepted to the Ivies and the elite public flagship universities are the ones who are more likely to be leaders in whatever field they choose. We don't have unlimited resources, so I'd prefer to invest in our country's best and brightest rather give a little bit of help to a whole lot of mediocre students.

 

[FloridaLisa]

Me too! :)

 

I checked for our 3 state universities (Wikipedia). Apparently, we're a poor state, with 2 schools having total endowments of a bit over $600 million, and 1 just under $100 million… That certainly explains the very stingy scholarships and very high tuition… :(

 

Lori, the gift referenced in the article that went to Yale could have doubled the endowment of that one state school!

 

He's claiming that 99% of those Yale students whose families make between $100k & $200k receive aid but those percentages are only of those students who apply for aid. The ones who apply are presumably those with personal circumstances making them have a greater need for aid than those with similar family incomes who don't apply.

 

My family was upper-middle-class and I didn't apply for aid because my family had savings earmarked for my tuition, my siblings were 4 & 8 years younger so we were never in college at the same time, and there weren't any unusual circumstances like high medical bills. Another student with the same income but little or no savings, other siblings in college at the same time, and/or big expenses would presumably have applied (and likely received) aid.

 

And my linking the article was not meant at all to slight students at Yale or other Ivies. My brother went to an Ivy and shared the article in his feed. And, yes, many who go to Ivies become leaders in their field; that's why they have money to give! I think the article is not suggesting giving it to other schools so much as giving it to other needy causes. With this one endowment, he could have given a million to 150 local, state, foreign charities that are doing really good work and made such an incredible impact. BUT, it's his money to give for sure and (here's the thing) he gave it. It was just completely enlightening to see how really deep the old schools are. 

[JanetC]

And, yes, many who go to Ivies become leaders in their field; that's why they have money to give!

 

Actually, many who go to Ivies are already part of the elite -- 45% of the families sending their kids to Yale are wealthy enough that they do not have to bother applying for financial aid!  (Source: College board website: 100 minus the percent of students applying for aid.) I also checked several other prominent schools (Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Brown, Chicago), they ranged from 36 to 48 percent of students needing zero aid.

 

 

 BUT, it's his money to give for sure and (here's the thing) he gave it. It was just completely enlightening to see how really deep the old schools are.

 

Yes, definitely his to spend as he likes. But, I also agree with the article that this is not a way to use your money to do the most good for the most people. Also, there's a tax break here as well: the part that would have gone to the tax system means that this new theater is publicly subsidized a bit, too.

 

 

Crimson Wife:

Not to sound snotty, but the kids who get accepted to the Ivies and the elite public flagship universities are the ones who are more likely to be leaders in whatever field they choose. We don't have unlimited resources, so I'd prefer to invest in our country's best and brightest rather give a little bit of help to a whole lot of mediocre students.

 

 

No, we don't have unlimited resources, but I don't think the current allocation in our educational system (from beginning to end) is optimal.

 

The thread around the suicide cluster in Silicon Valley is a case in point. The kids at that high school driving themselves to depression and suicide because they can't count on being part of the 1-percent that gets into Stanford and the Ivies shows that something is out of whack.  If the schools for the top 5-percent were just as good, and the schools for the top 10-percent were pretty darn close, there would be maybe a little more college admissions sanity?

[Teachin'Mine]

Some donations are for the renovation or building of the physical campus, but other donations are made with the hope of changing the world for the better.   In my opinion both are important. 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/dartmouth-grads-end-global-poverty-21-million-scholarship-173537602.html

 

In searching for this particular article, I came across so many programs similar to this at many universities both private and public. 

[Wildiris]

Not to sound snotty, but the kids who get accepted to the Ivies and the elite public flagship universities are the ones who are more likely to be leaders in whatever field they choose. We don't have unlimited resources, so I'd prefer to invest in our country's best and brightest rather give a little bit of help to a whole lot of mediocre students.

 

 

I so disagree. The best and brightest often get turned down from the Ivies and public, flagship universities. There are quotas to fill besides athletes and alumni. And there is good PR to had about the young man who got into 8 ivies. (What happened to Stanford's offer of free tuition?) And don't forget out of state and out of country money to chase (cash poor public universities). There are many, far too many well qualified students who apply to top tier schools and get turned down, and not all students applying for financial aid are mediocre.

 

What kind of leaders are we getting? Opportunists of dubious character-- Zuckerberg? 

[SunnyDays]

Unfortunately, "more likely to be leaders" does not always equal "best and brightest."  More like "better connected" in many cases. 

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

nm

[MBM]

Here is another article from 2008 discussing the scrutiny some universities with large endowments and rising tuition are facing from the Senate Finance Committee.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/education/25endowments.html?_r=0

 

Two paragraphs from the article:

 

The committee, which has a central role in setting tax policy, has been pressuring universities to use more of their wealth for financial aid and threatening to require them to spend a minimum of 5 percent of their endowments each year, as foundations must. The committee pointed out that donations to universities and their endowment earnings were both tax-exempt.

 

Seeking to head off Congressional action, wealthy universities have been rushing in recent months to expand financial aid, in some cases using more of their endowments to increase assistance to low-income and upper-income students alike. Harvard recently said it would increase aid for families earning up to $180,000 a year, and Yale said it would help families with annual incomes of as much as $200,000.

 

 

[MBM]

The best and brightest often get turned down from the Ivies and public, flagship universities. 

 

Yes to what you said, and also, some of the best and brightest are not even applying to the Ivies or other top universities. They are not necessarily at a loss because they don't attend those universities. The best students will inevitably find what they need and forge their own ways. I've seen it happen with some of my kids' friends.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes to what you said, and also, some of the best and brightest are not even applying to the Ivies or other top universities.

But maybe they would if we redirected financial aid from academically unqualified students towards academically qualified ones. As a society we waste an enormous amount of money giving taxpayer-funded aid to students who never finish a degree. Many of these students drop out in the first semester or two.

 

As a taxpayer, I want the money I'm funding towards financial aid to go towards the students who actually should be in college.

[Carol in Cal.]

One reason that people donate to these universities is to increase the likelihood that their (underachieving) children will be accepted there.  The question on all such applications is, what family members do you have from here?  Donation records are checked and play a role in admissions, as do academic and business/personal achievements of family members.  If you think that a Yale degree is a ticket to ride, you will try to get one for your kids if you can.  So you donate and stay active in volunteer work for the school, etc.  Connections are crucial in that rarefied environment, and they WORK.  Look at George Bush, jr., for instance.

[MBM]

But maybe they would if we redirected financial aid from academically unqualified students towards academically qualified ones. As a society we waste an enormous amount of money giving taxpayer-funded aid to students who never finish a degree. Many of these students drop out in the first semester or two.

 

As a taxpayer, I want the money I'm funding towards financial aid to go towards the students who actually should be in college.

 

I am talking about high school students who are auto didacts who don't feel they need a special school to do something for them; they are resourceful enough to find what they need and teach themselves, seeking out individuals to help if necessary. I've seen this firsthand with some of our oldest son's friends who went to Illinois Math and Science Academy. These were kids who did not want to go to the Ivies or other top schools, even though they were more than qualified, but sought out other schools and opportunities for different reasons. Even if they would have been offered generous aid, I doubt they would have changed their plans/.

 

ETA: Here's an article that addresses why students drop out and what people like David Laude and David Yeager are doing to help change that. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/magazine/who-gets-to-graduate.html?_r=0