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Test scores, help me decide how to proceed in math


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My kids are both working ahead in math.  They get A averages in math based on tests only.  

 

Yearly Testing however, is always awkward.  They haven't seen the material b/c they are working ahead.  So it's like seeing something out of the blue you used to know how to do, but haven't done in a long time.  Up until now it's never been an issue.  This year however, it was a big issue.  

 

I can't decide if I need to repeat some math, or just supplement, OR do test prep next year ;-)  ??  

 

DS was going to do a review year for 8th.  For 7th he ended up with a 90 for algebra 1 based on tests only.  But he's lacking in word problem abilities.  I had planned Understanding Algebra1(critical thinking book) and Challenge Math(zacarro) to keep the algebra current and work on applying math to real life problems through word problems.  

 

DD was going to do TT algebra 1. She also had a 90 for pre algebra this year.   (with the intention of doing another algebra and the challenge math in 8th)

 

Their math results were mixed.  Like  being able to multiply fractions but missed most of the add/subtract fractions.  And similar in decimals.  Can subtract them, but not multiple or add.  Both were weak in estimation and multiple step word problems.   And in the CogAt both were weak in the quantitative area.  Compared to a few years ago the scores are way lower.  Is it a sign of issues or just harder material we weren't prepared for?  

 

I honestly think if we had reviewed these topics it would have been better.  Should I just go about my plan and add in test review come spring?  or should we consider going back and redoing a level of math somewhere...but which one for each kid?  It is really the first time I have seen scores drop so much so I have concerns.  Obviously neither wants to repeat anything...but being ahead I wonder if we should. Or blow off these test scores b/c we didn't prepare and move on? 

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I don't see this as a testing issue and am concerned about the specific topics missed. If a child has mastered fractions, she won't forget how to add/subtract fractions. I see this rather as an indication of insufficient prealgebra mastery as of missing test prep - these topics need to be rock solid forever, if the student is to succeed in algebra.

I would critically evaluate whether the speed at which they are progressing through math is producing adequate long term mastery, and, if necessary, go back to prealgebra now to cement those vital concepts.

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This is why I do arithmetic review with my students even when they're in algebra and geometry.  Not just because they might have trouble on standardized tests, but because if they're forgetting things, it means those things haven't gotten into long term memory yet.

 

I disagree slightly with regentrude (which almost never happens!).  Sometimes things in math can be mastered (or at least thoroughly understood)  *at the time they are learned* but then forgotten due to lack of distributed practice.  I don't consider a skill truly mastered until it is never forgotten, but sometimes this takes *years* of intermittent review to achieve.

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I agree.  When I've tutored high schoolers, the vast majority of them who were struggling needed to better internalize how to handle fractions for algebra and chemistry.  Sometimes that meant going back to a super simple approach...elementary level manipulatives or pictures to thoroughly understand WHAT the denominator means, and WHY we need it to be a common denominator for addition and subtraction.  Same idea for decimals.  And likewise, they also needed to know why and how multiplication and division are different than addition and subtraction...WHY do we multiply denominators? WHY do we cancel out common factors? WHY does multiplying create additional decimal places?

 

At the point where they are trying to balance equations with polynomial fractions, or express chemical quantities in scientific notation, they have to understand conceptually at that very basic level, or it will absolutely fall apart as they try to memorize procedure after procedure for complex problems.  It sounds to me like they memorized the arithmetical procedure easily at the time, but didn't take the time to absorb the concepts well enough to build their quantitative reasoning.  I'd try to go at it from more of a discovery approach if possible...for example, if I do 3 x 1/2, is that bigger or smaller than 6?  Draw your answer.  Make them draw whole number problems first even, like 3 x 2, 3 x 5, and 3 x 1. Let them roll their eyes, but have them look at their examples and tell you what multiplication means. Then ask them to draw three times a half.  Try it a few different ways. Try it by piecing together three halfs. Try it by starting with three wholes, and take half from each.  Same quantity? How does the procedure compare to working with whole numbers?  And then, if they need to see how it connects to Algebra to not feel like they're regressing, you can give them a simple problem with a variable, such as 3 times 1/x.

 

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I disagree slightly with regentrude (which almost never happens!).  Sometimes things in math can be mastered (or at least thoroughly understood)  *at the time they are learned* but then forgotten due to lack of distributed practice.  I don't consider a skill truly mastered until it is never forgotten, but sometimes this takes *years* of intermittent review to achieve.

 

I am just wondering how a student can possibly be doing algebra if he is unable to add fractions. That is a skill that is automatically continually reviewed since it is needed in algebra all.the.time.

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Has their yearly tests always been off compared to their chapter tests for math? If it has always been off then it could be they don't test well when topics are all mixed up in an annual exam. It could be a retention issue and/or a not use to switching from topic to topic in an exam.

I'll spend the summer reviewing and just download any state test for algebra for your son to try at the end of summer just to see what the weak areas are.
My oldest did three years of grade level state testing while in PS which does not correspond to the grade level of the math he was studying. We did a past year paper to prep and that was enough for him.

Some kids need more math practice to boost their quantitative scores. Especially if you are doing a timed test.

Read Kathy in Richmond reply in this thread

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/552116-anyone-else-watch-richard-rusczyks-wtm-conference-session-tonight/?p=6367047

 

ETA:

NY state test link for algebra

http://www.nysedregents.org/algebraone/

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I am just wondering how a student can possibly be doing algebra if he is unable to add fractions. That is a skill that is automatically continually reviewed since it is needed in algebra all.the.time.

 

This is why I said I only partially disagreed with you...

 

It is really only needed in Algebra I (at least in the old Algebra I) for rational expressions and equations.  Which is really only a chapter or two in the book.

 

Yes it is reviewed, but not all.the.time.

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It is really only needed in Algebra I (at least in the old Algebra I) for rational expressions and equations.  Which is really only a chapter or two in the book.

 

Yes it is reviewed, but not all.the.time.

 

I don't understand - you need to add fractions whenever you solve quadratic equations using the quadratic formula, since there are two terms in the square root, or when you solve linear equations and systems of linear equations as soon as there are multiple terms and  coefficients in front of the unknown. I don't see how you can get around this. Not sure what else you'd do in algebra that does not involve fractions in some form...

 

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I don't understand - you need to add fractions whenever you solve quadratic equations using the quadratic formula, since there are two terms in the square root, or when you solve linear equations and systems of linear equations as soon as there are multiple terms and coefficients in front of the unknown. I don't see how you can get around this. Not sure what else you'd do in algebra that does not involve fractions in some form...

 

I would agree with this. When my older did algebra and now pre cal. I feel those basic stuff are constantly used.. Not reviewed.. But used in problem solving

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Well he did OK in algebra. He loves the quadratic formula! I worked with him almost daily and fractions were not an issue.

 

So could it be a testing issue? Feeling rushed? I know for the reading comprehension sections he 'didn't feel like reading' so he just guessed the answers, sigh.

 

Dh thinks I should test a grade higher to see how he does.

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I disagree slightly with regentrude (which almost never happens!). Sometimes things in math can be mastered (or at least thoroughly understood) *at the time they are learned* but then forgotten due to lack of distributed practice. I don't consider a skill truly mastered until it is never forgotten, but sometimes this takes *years* of intermittent review to achieve.

This is very much our experience here. We need constant spiral review to maintain and often have 2-3 different math programs at once to achieve said spiral. I watched DS miss an alcumus question today due solely to arithmetic--he had the set up correct.

Eta: to address a specific question, we've had several chapters in Aops prealgebra and nary a fraction operation at all.

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OP can you run them through the Key to series for fractions, percents, etc. this summer?  Then plan on adding in some targeted review of just a few things each day alongside the normal math program you are planning to use.

 

FWIW, I limped along through High school math barely functioning in fractions.  It was a terrible way to deal with Algebra and Algebra II.  I wish with all my heart I had been much more solid on my basics and that I had had some targeted weekly review in basic skills.  By the time you get to Algebra, the book is assuming you know this stuff solidly.  If you don't, there is no helpful side instruction to remind you on how to accurately do something.  You limp along but don't really achieve mastery, KWIM?

 

Maybe Khan Academy review might help.  You might even consider doing MUS fractions with them to really solidify those concepts.  Again, though, just because they learn something doesn't mean it will stick long term.  They may need periodic, targeted review, over an extended period of time, not just using those skills once in a while in their primary math program.

 

Good luck.

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I would review and then give them end-of-year exams that are not multiple choice.  For your ds, I'd have him do both algebra 1 and prealgebra exams and for your dd a prealgebra exam.  I'd choose something from another program or something online (there are many online practice exams posted by schools) or simply make your own.  If there are problem areas that indicate a need for further work, that should be clear on the exams.

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thanks everyone for the input.  I am going to get the Key To series and spend summer reviewing.  And in the fall will retest or do the Alg. test to see how they are doing.  They have always done spiral math before, so yeah, they may just need more review here and there.  I'm going to stop freaking out now.  :laugh:

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I think repeating a year next year will be very demotivating for them, so whatever you do - try and make it look like they are moving forward. 

 

What curriculum were you using?  I know that I realized (after the fact) that some curricula didn't work as well as others - and then we had to backtrack a bit with another curriculum before moving on. My kids all were ahead of where they should have been with math but if the curriculum wasn't teaching them to think, they didn't do very well in testing (this was the worst when I used Teaching Textbooks).

 

Life of Fred and Singapore (the latter I only used until Algebra) worked really well for us. Life of Fred is fun but heavy on word problems. My one son particularly love LOF and would do tons of it just to find out what happened next. My youngest daughter did LOF and Singapore and I got her to take the SAT in 8th grade and she score higher on math than her brothers did in 11 th grade :). And no, she isn't "gifted" - good at math, yes, but no genius.

 

I would second the suggestion to try Khan Academy. With the gamification element it may not seem like doing "school" in the vacation and the good think is, they will keep getting the same problem types appearing until they master them. I got my daughter doing Khan as a supplement to LOF Algebra and I tied the points she earned to rewards she could earn. This made the whole thing fun and she didn't object to doing it and worked of her own accord to earn the things she wanted.

 

Kids' feelings about math seem to have a strong influence over how they do, so just try hard not to let your children feel like they are bad at math, or to let them feel upset at having to work on math in the summer. Obviously you need to do make sure they know what they are doing, but the more "stress-free" you can make the process the better.

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OK I looked again at the scores...

 

What DS attempted on fractions he got correct. He bombed the decimals.

What DD did...she bombed fractions and decimals.

 

 

I ordered the Key To series for both topics for both kids to do over summer. Then will do algebra placement tests to see how they fare. And decide level and curriculum then.

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