Is it time to leave CLE math?

[sixpence1978]

We have been using CLE for math for the past few years.  We've used from 206-510.

 

The first year after switching to CLE, our standardized test scores increased dramatically.  Last year, after the 400s though, they were a bit low again.  I chalked it up to a bad testing day.  However, this year scores were still low.

 

Now, I don't place all my eggs in the test score basket so to speak, but it does make you wonder.  My DD, overall, has had an amazing year with CLE this year.  She really did seem to learn a lot.  Her tests throughout the year have been around the 90% mark.

 

So I got to thinking about it.  She still struggles heavily with word problems.  And, let's face it, overall CLE is weak in word problems (IMO).  She doesn't get much time to practice it.  I have the Process Skills books as well as CWP here to supplement, but our CLE math takes an hour each day even with crossing out some of the review section.  She's a daydreamer who would rather be painting than doing math, even with me there reminding her to stay on task.  So, any supplementing is constantly pushed aside.

 

Also, I'm wondering if CLE has enough varied review.  The spiral review is absolutely necessary for my DD, but CLE presents the review the same way each time.  It could be very easy to skate through without much thought.

 

Looking ahead to what is taught in the 600s, I love some of the topics that are covered, but the word problems don't look any more difficult.

 

My DD really likes the look of Horizons 6, but it covers much less than what CLE 600 covers.  Maybe it would be good for her to solidify her skills there before moving on to Pre-Algebra though.  I'm perfectly comfortable teaching math, so the TM doesn't worry me.

 

I would consider Saxon, since it has a bit more of what I'm talking about, but it isn't a good fit for DD for various reasons.

 

I'm open to other options and thoughts.

[Critterfixer]

I would hesitate to leave something that is making a math-phobic child have some confidence in math. We are in the same boat with scores (required to test by the state) and in the same place with word problems. Even CLE 4 (which is what my guys testing into after a year of Saxon 5/4 and good scores!) with its very light-weight word problems gives them fits. 

It's not the math in it. It's the figuring out of the problem itself. Half of the time, they don't want to even try. 

 

I'm sympathetic, because I know exactly how they feel. It's nothing short of disturbing in the extreme to know you are intelligent, you've at least got a decent brain, and then to get beat by a word problem that really turns out to be a pretty simple problem in the end. 

We don't need more word problems. We need to be less afraid of the ones we have to start with, and we need to start seeing more complicated problems as a puzzle that is fun to solve, and not out to trick us. 

 

To that end, I purchased Zaccaro's book Becoming a Problem Solving Genius and I think we're going to use this for our Math study sessions this year. We don't have them every day of the week, but we have them about twice a week and I usually serve something nice, like hot cocoa, or some fruit and cheese, and it's very low stress, very relaxed and we discuss instead of working alone. The evening turns out to be a very good time for us to work on supplemental materials. I only have two boys, at the same grade level, and after they've had their school day, been out to play for a while and are ready to wind down, an evening study session, if presented two to three times a week as a short, enjoyable time to work on something together tends to be well accepted.

 

So you might take the supplements you already have, and do them as a study session instead of changing all the curriculum. I don't know how this is going to work for us, but I'm hopeful that it will begin to take some of the deer-in-the-headlights look out of their eyes when faced with word problems.

[SilverMoon]

I'd also hesitate to fix something that isn't broken. You can add Zaccaro books, Alcumus, and such for problem solving.

 

 

On the other hand, Horizons is a solid choice. It is not behind in the slightest. My DS jumped from Horizons 5 to AoPS prealg and has thrived. Horizons gave him an excellent foundation.

[OneStepAtATime]

My suggestion?  

 

1.  Look at the standardized tests and target specific areas of weakness separately from the CLE lessons.  

 

2.  Only do CLE 4 days a week.  Skip the quizzes if you need to save some time.  And keep crossing out a lot of the review in areas she is solid.  On the 5th day, work specifically on word problems maybe through some of the sources you already own or what was mentioned above.  Do it together on a dry erase board.  Work on terminology.  Help her create her own word problems for you to solve.

 

3.  Play mathy games, maybe incorporating art, to help explain concepts.

 

4.  Possibly look at doing something more conceptual and more colorful on the side on that 5th day, such as Beast Academy.

 

5.  And try to really dig in and discover why it is taking an hour to get through her CLE lesson even with crossing out some review.  Are her math facts still weak?  Does she maybe need to exercise or engage in a more physical activity before starting math to help her focus?  Can you do part of the lesson on a dry erase, together?

[Critterfixer]

My two routinely take about an hour for a CLE lesson on an average day. Give them an incentive, and they can charge through two lessons a day in about an hour and a half. What's math class if you don't try to talk to Mom or argue with your brother or make sure the chickens are okay by looking through the window every ten minutes or so? :tongue_smilie:

And that's with me sitting there and keeping people on task. I do my algebra while they work on their math. 

So the hour per CLE lesson doesn't really bother me all that much. I've got two little daydream believers at my house, too. Only in my case it's drawing circuit boards and planning out the latest breeds of dragons to populate their stories.

[3andme]

Did the test given any results broken down by category? The ITBS breaks it down between concepts, problem solving and computation for example. Is there one area dc is weak in or are the results lower across the board?  Was the test timed? I think speed and fluency might be an issue. One hour for CLE math with items crossed out does seem fairly long in my experience. Are you sitting down with dc and reviewing new concepts periodically? I find even with older grade levels this is important to ascertaining if they really understand things.

[sixpence1978]

Keep in mind, DD was registered as 6th grade this year, while finishing CLE 500.

 

It was the ITBS test that she took.  She tested lowest at Concepts & Estimation (23rd NPR), followed by Computation (33rd NPR), and then Problem Solving and Data Interpretation (38th NPR).  Now, all tested were timed.  She finished all with time to spare, with the exception of Computation.

 

Her math facts are about as good as we are going to be able to get them.  Her dyslexia primarily affects her memory skills.  So she uses Touch Math for most of her calculations.

 

As far as why I think it takes her as long as it does, she daydreams, drops her pencil, and struggles with writing.  She is my only student at home so I teach her every lesson and watch her work for mistakes with undivided attention.  CLE has definitely made her more confident in math, but she still says it is her least favorite subject.

[FairProspects]

Do you accommodate her for her dyslexia on the ITBS? Do you give her double time or time and a half? You can also accommodate with a calculator on the first half of math concepts and all of math problem solving. What about ability to write in test booklet and use a scribe for the bubbles? How about reading the word problems to her? Would that change her scores any? I guess I'm not sure how much of this is actually a math issue vs. a dyslexia issue that is not allowing her to show what she knows. There are lots of aspects about achievement testing that can be very difficult for dyslexics.

 

My ds would be a mess without his accommodations but once he uses them he scores very well (even though he still strongly dislikes testing).

[3andme]

I'd be puzzled by those test results as well. There is definitely a disconnect with the CLE test performance even given the 1 grade difference between CLE level and test grade. The thing that surprised me the most is her strongest performance was on the Problem Solving and Data Interpretation. Especially with dyslexia, you might expect this to be the lowest. I might suggest you try a much more detailed online math assessment tool like ADAM. It's a relatively inexpensive ($20) adaptive math test and breaks down the results into detailed categories.  I'd be leery of changing a program that dc likes but it does seem worth reassessing as you're doing.

[Critterfixer]

If she was testing at a sixth grade level, while finishing grade 5 in math, I'm not sure I'd be all that surprised at lower than expected scores. 

I'd be tempted to assess, as you are doing, where her weaknesses lie, and working on those while continuing math at the level that makes sense to her and enables her to have confidence in math.

 

Just my two cents. My guys are working about a year level behind while having to test at their grade level. One of these days, maybe I'll be able to accelerate the pace, but for now, it's just what it needs to be.

[happycc]

We are planning to alternate. During summer we are doing CLE 300 and  moving pretty quickly right now and during the fall Math IN Focus grade level and my main focus is for exposure not necessary mastery when it comes to grade level stuff and if we have time CLE 400. But definitely go back to CLE during the summer to shore things up.