Saxon vs. Singapore

[Guest didpt]

We were at a university model school in the past and are transitioning to full-time homeschooling.  We used Saxon the first 2 years and then our school switched to Math U See for 2 years.  I'm looking to leave MUS.  The things I liked about Saxon were the diverse manipulatives and hands on experiences and meeting time.  What I didn't like was that in the past, my older daughter couldn't process a page of math facts and things would come to a grinding halt.  She's able to handle that now and my younger daughter is very interested in Saxon.  When I re-opened Saxon though, I'm less happy with the scripted text than when I was brand new to homeschooling.  I'm on the fence about Singapore.  I'm drawn to the increased conceptual work and problem solving.  I'm worried that my younger daughter who is more tactile will be bored by the lack of manipulatives.  For those who have used Singapore, did you find that the Instructor's manual, textbook, workbook and test books were all necessary?  Thanks for your input :)

[Ali in OR]

What level of Singapore? For elementary, we just used the textbook, workbook, and challenging word problems. I'm a former math teacher so I didn't need the instructor's manual. We did not do tests in elementary. For 7th and 8th grade we used Singapore's Discovering Mathematics program (before it was updated). For that we used textbook, workbook, and I got the question bank books as an extra resource for writing tests. There is a significant jump in difficulty from the primary math series to the discovering/dimensions math series (from 6th grade to 7th grade).

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Starting at the 5/4 level in Saxon, there are no more meetings. They have warm ups. They do not have workbooks either, and will not face a 100 math fact page. They have 25 problems each day with built in review. They also do not use manipulatives in the upper grades. We just switched from Saxon 3. I do love the manipulatives, but the lack of color, haphazard presentation of math facts and boring fact sheets were killing the love of math here. The k-3 Saxon is completely different than the upper levels.

 

Singapore uses the pictorial approach and is more mastery based where Saxon is more spiral. The Teachers manual is not scripted like Saxon.

 

Are you open to other programs? Are religious publishers an option? You might look at Horizon math. They are spiral, colorful and have built in review. But they have more conceptual thinking than some other traditional programs. They also have a less scripted teachers manual.

 

Whatever you decide, keep in mind that you can always supplement wherever the curriculum has a weakness. If it lacks some conceptual thinking, you can add in LOF or BA as a fun supplement. If it lacks review, you can always purchase an extra review book or use an on,one resource like Khan. And there is no reason you can't add in some manipulatives to your teaching. I still use Saxon manipulatives with our other curriculum. You can always have a fun math game day on Friday, etc. you are the teacher, and curriculum is only a tool.

[Guest didpt]

Thanks for your feedback.  My younger student is entering 2nd and my older student is entering 4th, but after placement testing for Saxon and Singapore, I realized we have some substantial holes to fill in.  I haven't looked at Horizon yet, but have been looking into LOF as a supplement.  Does anyone have any information about Saxon Intermediate 3 vs. Saxon 3?

 

[BusyMom5]

Last summer one of mine was coming out of 3rd grade with a lot of holes.  We did a quick run-through of Saxon 3, and I heavily edited the worksheets to only include the things she needed to work on.  We easily did 2 lessons per day, and usually 3, but we didn't do all of the problems.  For example we needed more help in subtraction with borrowing, so I would circle those, the measurement problem, a few word problems, ect. everyday, and she would do only the ones she needed practice on.  If it was a skill she already had down, like area, we might do one every few days, but I tried to focus on the areas I knew she was weak.  We started in June, and finished the entire thing in September, then started Saxon 5/4.  I've tried various other curricula this year, but Saxon seems to have what she needs, so that's what I am sticking with next year.  I think it would work better to go quickly through, and keep moving forward if you are just filling holes, rather than spend the entire year doing 3rd grade if your student just has holes.  Saxon is also really good about filling holes, since it constantly repeats the skills daily. 

[jessj]

You are probably seeing gaps because of MUS.  Since it only focuses on one single operation a year, it makes it difficult to switch over to other programs.  I would not say your children are behind.  They are only ahead or behind depending what publisher you're looking at! 

We use both Singapore and Saxon.  My two children are very different thinkers.  Personally, I like Singapore better.  Saxon feels way too scattered to me, and to my younger daughter.  But the constant change and review/variety keeps it interesting for my eldest.  It all depends on how their brains work! 

With Singapore we use the HIG, TB, WB - always.  And we do the mental math activities in the HIG.  We periodically also use the IP or CWP.  It does feel like a lot of separate pieces.  But, they are all pretty small and thin.  So yes, you do need to purchase a lot of pieces, but the size keeps them kid friendly. 

We don't give tests at this point. 

[...................]

I used/use Saxon with my oldest and I really don't recommend it.  There are just better options out there for homeschoolers now.  Additionally, the competitive nature of college and high school now in the math arena, makes it important to be able to use facts but really know how to apply all that math!

 

Singapore Math in Focus seems like a great approach because you get the Singapore Methodology with all the extras and hand-holding that are a little lacking in the Singapore Primary Series.  Or, you can use the Singpaore with the HIG and then transition to the Math in Focus if and when you really need a stronger TM and more extras.  

 

Singapore really really works.  When you use the Extra Practice and make sure you drill those facts (Singapore does not include much drill), you will find that you have kids that really understand math and it'll open doors for them.

 

I myself am paying thousands of dollars for a math tutor to undo the Saxon-think and open up new worlds of mathematical problem solving.  She herself recommends Singapore and AOPS...

 

My dd used Horizons K-5 and it's not bad.  We never really had an issue with it and she is better at problem solving than he is although not where I want her.  But still either Singapore option is better.  Back when I started Singapore didn't have the HIGs and there was no Math in Focus so I chickened out and used Saxon and boy what a mistake.  The HIG's were published soon after and I should have switched then.  Live and learn.

 

Saxon is ok if that's all you can figure out.. and I will say the Alg 1/2, alg 1, 2 and Trig books from Saxon do incorporate a lot mroe critical thinking...but still...it's not problem solving the way kids are expected to do these days.....my son is still using it this year just because I am unable to start over..but the tutor is using AOPS's problems and challening problems to switch him over to AOPS fully next year.  

 

And she strongly recommended Singapore for my dd....

 

 

[ondreeuh]

I love, love, LOVE Math in Focus. My youngest is finishing up 2B and it is a perfect fit for him. It is very strong in problem solving, and even in the 2nd grade book there are two-step word problems. There aren't any pages of division problems, but instead pages of word problems where the kid has to figure out if they need to multiply or divide, and then use bar models to demonstrate what they are doing.

 

We fill in with Horizons to add spiral review or take a break. It complements MIF very well, but doesn't have anywhere near the problem-solving aspect that MIF does.

 

My older son used: Singapore for 1B -2A, Horizons 2-3, CLE 3-4, Saxon 5/4, CLE 5, and then we have stuck with Holt's middle school math series. I wish MIF would have been around then, because I would have added Math Minutes to it for more review and I think he would have ended up doing very well.