2E: Do you ever just get overwhelmed with the remediation or balance of strength-based learning to weakness remediation?

[FairProspects]

Functionally, I feel like our year has been successful. Younger ds is reading close to grade level and spending tons of time absorbing huge amounts of language by Immersion Reading, older ds's writing has exploded and he is using text-based resources to do intensive research and projects. Both are at the top of their outside classes in classroom environments and when I put older ds in a community-based learning experience that incorporated tons of school-based skills and in which he was the youngest by at least 1-2 years, he blew it away and succeeded far beyond my expectations.

 

But...when we try doing anything skill-based like testing, all I can see is the issues! Older ds *can* read at a high level and has been remediated for dyslexia but if he hits a passage of 8-10 paragraphs, he bails and starts working from the questions to find answers instead of reading the passage. Younger ds absolutely bombed the spelling even though he did much better than expected on the reading. Both kids excelled at science and social studies but fluid computation is still a huge issue.

 

These are the same issues we've had forever - is this all going to come together at some point? We've done nothing but work on intensive phonics and math facts for years - will they ever be able to read normally? Will they be able to succeed in math and remember enough facts to proceed? I feel like as soon as we remediate one area, another one becomes a problem or they hit the next level of work and we are back to needing to get the reading & number fluency even higher!

 

I guess the good news is that they are doing so well practically, which means they must be compensating and their supports are working, but if those supports aren't present it isn't pretty. Not sure if I should be worried about that or not. It is frustrating, because I feel like I've done a good job balancing a strength-based education this year with the remediation and I'm still not seeing the progress I would like to see in the basic skills. Do I need to be more patient? Will those skills eventually come in this late-blooming profile?

[Julie of KY]

I think mom's instinct is usually right on - and if you feel that you've had a successful year, then I bet you are on the right track.

 

I've dealt with 2E issues in multiple kids. (All test very gifted with learning disabilities).  It's hard when you "know" you are doing the right thing, but friends, society, testing, scouts, etc. then look at you crazy that your child can't do something expected.

 

My oldest is severely dysgraphic - I scribed through 9th grade (and expected to need to continue), but he started doing all his own writing this year.

 

My third child is severely dyslexic - started reading fluently in middle school.

 

My fourth is not a reader yet at 8yo.

 

I'd encourage you to keep asking questions. Are you doing the right thing? Do I need to seek further professional testing? How do I build reading fluency? Just because one (or two or three) professionals say there's nothing more you can do, keep asking questions and seeking help if that is what you feel like you need to do. I had 3 people tell me not to persue vision therapy for my oldest for handwriting, but I kept asking questions and had a COVD doc convince me that he thought he could help. (At that time I wasn't even asking if my oldest could be helped, just my daughter with convergence insufficiency). After months of VT, my son started picking up a pen and writing on his own for the first time. Everyone will have advice (and most are well meaning), but you have to filter what is best for your child. Sometimes I will give an issue another year to see if it works itself out, but at some point you may have to go back and start asking new questions.

 

 

[hornblower]

IME, yes. It will. & I say this as parent to a 17  & 20 yo. It will.

Keep plugging away at the skills but also make sure to find different ways of stuffing their brains with knowledge. Videos, audio books, field trips can all convey lots of info without relying on extensive reading. Scribing for them & information discussions/debates will help them work on developing logic and narrative skills while you wait for writing & spelling to catch up. It will all come together.

Keep remediating, keep accommodating, provide as rich an environment as you can, let go of what 'school' is doing (aka worksheets and tests etc which I think are all geared to 1 teacher/lots of kids & the need to place/level everyone). You KNOW they're progressing, that's what matters.

[Heathermomster]

I have always understood that these kids are like wine and improve with age.  Some subjects are never going to be easy so you have to just dig in and consistently encourage, target the areas that continue to improve, accommodate, accommodate, start teaching test taking strategies, and accommodate.  

[texasmama]

My gut says that you and your kids are doing great, and you just need more patience.  :)

 

I have a 1E kid - he didn't get the giftedness, just the LD's and ASD so I don't relate to the 2E world, but he does have clear strengths and weaknesses.  My goal has always been to plug away at good programs, however long it takes.  I am more interested in the learning than the speed at which it occurs.  I trust that if he and I are both "suiting up and showing up", progress can happen.  This is a marathon, not a sprint.  (I know you realize all of these things, but as a mama with a 14 year old, I am a bit down the road so I offer that up as a reminder.)

 

I play to his strengths, remediate his weak areas, and make sure he has an activity (basketball) at which he excels.  That excelling has been hard-fought, not a natural talent sort of situation, but with much time and effort, he is good at it.  Everyone needs something to excel at which builds confidence and gives a positive identity.

[texasmama]

I felt so strongly that I said it twice.  :D

[PeterPan]

Just as a slight aside, isn't working from the questions the correct methodology for standardized tests?  That was my assumption that it was.  I think it's a recommended strategy for the SAT or ACT, yes?  

 

My dd's computation improved at 12.  You haven't gone through puberty yet either.  Give yourself some grace there.  

 

The things that seem really frustrating and important now might turn out to be irrelevant later.  Spelling, so long as it's adequate enough to work with dictation or spellchecker and know you've got the word you intended, is good enough.  Ditto computation.  These are not the things they're going to be crying over when they're 30.  I think, and this is just me, that if you're teaching them to use (and OWN the use of) technologies for their disabilities as well as remediating what you can, I think they'll definitely bless you for that years down the road.  I think you should take consolation in that and think long-term about what they'll be glad for vs. what is a short-term statistical bump.

 

On the reading, my only out of the box bit of advice (to build on the check to see if you're doing everything you can sentiment) is to consider working on RAN/RAS.  It's easy, FREE, and scores in that directly correlate to reading.  Here's a link to some free files you can use.  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4rcl6f0uo70esmv/AAAaGAHw3_YTMEQZSw_WI-t_a?dl=0

Or make your own using whatever you like (words, numbers, anything).  

 

 

[wapiti]

My dd's computation improved at 12.  You haven't gone through puberty yet either.  Give yourself some grace there.  

 

As an aside, when, exactly, is this magical puberty for boys?  Someone here must know.  (Tex?)  I'm worried it may not be until the end of 10th grade  :glare:

[prairiewindmomma]

We saw the beginnings of puberty at 11, and some re-wiring occur at 12. It really is wild. To some extent, it really is like teaching a different brain.  I'm hoping the process continues for a few more years.

 

Back to your original title: do you ever just get overwhelmed with the remediation or the balance of strength to weakness..... With a 2E kid, don't forget the strengths. I was reminded by our neuropsych that remediation is good, but there has to be a balance. School needs to contain a goodly amount of both---and our neuropsych thinks even swaying towards strengths > weaknesses.

[PeterPan]

As an aside, when, exactly, is this magical puberty for boys?  Someone here must know.  (Tex?)  I'm worried it may not be until the end of 10th grade  :glare:

Unfortunately, the numbers I'm hearing from people are more like 14-16 for boys.  :(

 

Prepare to enjoy the ride.  Once that happens, they're GONE.  Poof.  And that's sad too.

[EKS]

I found that what ends up happening is you go from being remediation focused (which is exhausting) to being accommodations focused.  Somewhere in the early teen years I realized that my son's dyslexia was as remediated as it was going to be and that from then on he would have to learn to work with accommodations to help himself succeed.  Part of this process was learning how to advocate for himself in an institutional setting (which he did when he went to the CC and they didn't want to hear from me).  We also got an evaluation specifically for getting accommodations on the SAT/ACT when he was 14yo.

 

As for looking at the questions first--my son found that on the ACT he went quite a bit faster if he didn't read the passage first.  In practice, he wasn't able to finish the reading section (in time and a half) when he read the passage first, but he was able to when he did not (and he ended up getting a 31 on the reading section).

[texasmama]

As an aside, when, exactly, is this magical puberty for boys?  Someone here must know.  (Tex?)  I'm worried it may not be until the end of 10th grade  :glare:

My boys seem to be early puberty dudes.  My 14 year old has hairy armpits, hairy legs, and he is 6 feet tall.  My 12 year old has the beginnings of hairy armpits, and he is 5'5".  I will say that we are a tall family (5'10" for me and 6'6" for dh)

 

I just asked my boys when they thought puberty happens, and ds14 said it starts between 10-11 and then hits full force about 12.  But again, I think they are on the early side.  I don't think not going through puberty at that age is abnormal in any way.  

 

My ASD kid has been pretty easy to parent except for his SPD, anxiety, and emotional meltdowns over math. (Yes, I know that sounds hard, but he was always TRYING to obey and be cooperative.  His neurology just overruled his desire to behave himself.  He was my easiest kid until puberty.)  When puberty hit, he became angry and difficult to parent, which continues.  That hit at about 12 1/2-13.  He still wants to do well in his schoolwork, but he struggles with EF issues.  I am giving him about four years to mellow out. :)  A lot of his issues are about the ASD and EF.  I think that without the testosterone blast (or once it levels out), he will be more mellow.  I am hoping so.  But my dh is pretty high testosterone, as I call it.  

 

This has wandered into a different area, but those are my free of charge thoughts.  I do think there is a very wide variation in puberty and when it hits.

[PeterPan]

I wasn't tying that developmental spurt where things finally come together to hormonal puberty, since I'm not sure they're linked.  I'm just saying I've heard stories of it being in that range of 12-16.

[wapiti]

FP, I would hang my hat on the doing well practically.  I think you should be patting yourself on the back!!

[Heathermomster]

FP, around aged 10-11, the human brain goes through a synaptic pruning process.  Any dendrites that are not being used are removed with ruthless efficiency.  I believe that pruning process is what enables grammar staged/concrete thinkers to shift and become more abstract thinkers.  Add hormones to the equation and you have a stinky pubescent, challenging authority and who knows what else?

 

My 15 yo is a laid back firstborn and a pleaser.  He genuinely wants to please and be accepted by his friends and loved ones.  Puberty was full blown by 7th grade.  He was mouthy for a time, but DH and I worked together to manage him.  My child has lots of currency, so I exploited that.  During the school day when things were not going so well, DS went to bed and took naps multiple times after being fed a pbj.  Gird your loins and be patient.  If you are a Christian maybe consider reading Bringing up Boys by James Dobson.  With DS, DH really stepped up and helped me because contrary to popular opinion, teenage males really need positive role modeling fathers to help navigate the emotions and bodily changes that they are experiencing.  Things do improve, which I am thankful for because I genuinely covet the relationship that I have with both my children.