"This Really Isn't Kindergarten Anymore"

[merry gardens]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/05/04/this-really-isnt-kindergarten-anymore/

 

This article left me feeling a whole lot better yesterday about how my five year old is doing over here in our home.

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Yup!

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes.  1,000,000,000 times yes.

[Princess Ariel]

Great article.  I remember lots of play time, singing, marching, art, etc., when I was in kindergarten.  Even into grade school we had two or even three recess periods a day, lots of time for jump rope, hopscotch, etc.  Now, many kids have to go to OT to learn those skills!

[OneStepAtATime]

DS has already stated that he intends to homeschool his own kids because he wants them to have a childhood full of laughter and play. DD isn't sure she will ever want kids but she thinks DS should homeschool his, unless the ps system radically changes its current approach. :)

[Tiramisu]

We had a well-check this week. I've known our ped for a long time and we have kids with similar issues. She has always supported our homeschooling and has envied our ability to accommodate. I told her how I was worried that my third grader will only write a few sentences a day total. She told me her son is in private school where the first graders have to write for forty minutes a day. Even though I don't think this is developmentally appropriate, I left the well-check feeling very insecure. 

 

When I was in the early years of school myself, I don't think we did any writing outside of worksheets. I have no memory of really writing in second, third, or fourth grade, but at some point we began writing sentences to practice our spelling words. In fifth grade, we started writing stories for the first time, and I got a lot of attention because my stories were pages and pages long. I got decent SATs, did very well in college, and went on to get a fellowship and graduate degrees, so the late start didn't hurt me at all.

 

This early push on writing doesn't seem to have made better writers in the long run, maybe because kids aren't getting enough developmentally appropriate experiences, like the author of the article suggests. The same is true for reading. There's an expectation in our ps that most first graders will come in reading. But I noticed that my dd who is in 7th grade in ps isn't reading much more challenging works than she did in 3rd grade. There's a big push early on in reading and writing and then everything stagnates.

 

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Agreed, Tiramisu.  And pushing hard really early on means that a lot of kids that are not yet ready will come to think they are incapable when all they really needed was more time.  There are SOOOOOO many things wrong with our system right now.  

 

 

[Heathermomster]

We had a well-check this week. I've known our ped for a long time and we have kids with similar issues. She has always supported our homeschooling and has envied our ability to accommodate. I told her how I was worried that my third grader will only write a few sentences a day total. She told me her son is in private school where the first graders have to write for forty minutes a day. Even though I don't think this is developmentally appropriate, I left the well-check feeling very insecure. 

 

When I was in the early years of school myself, I don't think we did any writing outside of worksheets. I have no memory of really writing in second, third, or fourth grade, but at some point we began writing sentences to practice our spelling words. In fifth grade, we started writing stories for the first time, and I got a lot of attention because my stories were pages and pages long. I got decent SATs, did very well in college, and went on to get a fellowship and graduate degrees, so the late start didn't hurt me at all.

 

This early push on writing doesn't seem to have made better writers in the long run, maybe because kids aren't getting enough developmentally appropriate experiences, like the author of the article suggests. The same is true for reading. There's an expectation in our ps that most first graders will come in reading. But I noticed that my dd who is in 7th grade in ps isn't reading much more challenging works than she did in 3rd grade. There's a big push early on in reading and writing and then everything stagnates.

 

 

How does the 40 minutes per day of writing count?  Does she count that writing across all subjects or does the teacher set a clock, turn her back, and drink coffee while the students have a go at a free write?

[Heathermomster]

Kell, don't believe for a second that force feeding 25 unique individuals with 40 minutes of copywork in a classroom equates to the loving, direct, and individualized instruction that your children receive every day, all day.

[Guest lm johns]

Why aren't we (our nation's school age kids) getting smarter if we are staring off with such intense kindergarten? I have been told by a public educator that they now have to know letters and numbers before they start...is that true?

[Tiramisu]

How does the 40 minutes per day of writing count?  Does she count that writing across all subjects or does the teacher set a clock, turn her back, and drink coffee while the students have a go at a free write?

 

I'm rather sure it's 40 minutes of what is basically free writing, probably following something like the writer's workshop model that my kids did in ps, where they discover their author's voice.

 

I never thought of the coffee, though it's very likely smart phone time. ;)

[Tiramisu]

Why aren't we (our nation's school age kids) getting smarter if we are staring off with such intense kindergarten? I have been told by a public educator that they now have to know letters and numbers before they start...is that true?

 

Yes, I think this is true.

 

In our ps, they hold a kindergarten round-up where each four year old is taken out and given a short assessment. I wouldn't be surprised if the kids who didn't know their letters and numbers would be flagged since nearly every kid is sent to pre-school. I have a friend who got a shocked response when she told them her son did not go to pre-school. 

[Tiramisu]

Kell, don't believe for a second that forcing feeding 25 unique individuals with 40 minutes of copywork in a classroom equates to the loving, direct, and individualized instruction that your children receive every day, all day.

 

 

I wish my dd would see my homeschooling her as loving. :(

 

We are starting play therapy today, because improving our relationship will be necessary for us to continue homeschooling. I can't take being fought with and yelled at everyday with everything else going on.

[mellifera33]

Why aren't we (our nation's school age kids) getting smarter if we are staring off with such intense kindergarten? I have been told by a public educator that they now have to know letters and numbers before they start...is that true?

 

My impression is that the public schools are trying to cram in as much learning as possible before being smart isn't cool anymore, and they lose the kids' attention. 

[Arcadia]

My local school K was hands on and play based so it was fun for my oldest. 1st grade is when they ramp up the seatwork but the writing time is in short blocks and it is more of write a few short sentences and draw something to illustrate.

 

I have been told by a public educator that they now have to know letters and numbers before they start...is that true?

My district tests all the kids that registered for kindergarten after they were assigned a school. We have overcrowding so schools get assigned in April. The admin says it is to ensure the load is spread as evenly as possible. They do need to know how to write their first name at the start of K.

 

The testing was started after my boy was in K. The secretary did ask how many letters and numbers he knew when I did K registration. Each parent was interviewed by the secretary on academic skills.

[merry gardens]

We had a well check up this week.... I told her how I was worried that my third grader will only write a few sentences a day total. She told me her son is in private school where the first graders have to write for forty minutes a day. Even though I don't think this is developmentally appropriate, I left the well-check feeling very insecure. 

 

 

Insecurity is my nemesis!

 

I shared this article here on this forum because so many of you here know the struggles one of mine has faced with dyslexia. Sometimes early intervention is appropriate, and I know now to recognize the early signs of dyslexia. But, my dd 5 doesn't show signs of dyslexia--she shows signs of being 5 years old.  

 

My daughter was making progress in reading, BUT she didn't like it, and she said she didn't like school, so I pulled back on doing academics with her. Shortly after, another mom in my daughter's dance class (who has a child in public school kindergarten) shared what their doing for reading in her daughter's class.  Then a short while later, I talked with another homeschool friend who has children of similar age, and her 4 year old is reading lots of words by sight. When I heard all that, I questioned my ability to teach kindergarten. But while some children are ready to read early, reading many words by sight is not a kindergarten skill. I know it's not!!!! Nevertheless, I question my child and myself.

 

There's something wrong with schools when they've forgotten the meaning of the word "first"--as in "First Grade." And we as insecure homeschoolers can get caught up in the insanity of trying to push academics on children when those children should be busy developing other skills.

 

Last year when doing pre-school, my youngest seemed quite bright. Then this last September, she started homeschool kindergarten, and low and behold, it turns out she's not ready for doing first and second grade work! She can read a few little words. She can count some and gets many of the general concepts, but tires quickly when doing math or just starts to get silly.  She glued the pages of her math book together, making a great big mess when I was doing something besides sitting right next to her. And she wants me (or the others) to play games with her. She loves to sing and color. Instead of feeling defeated that she's not doing what some other children are doing in kindergarten, I should be rejoicing, because she can enjoy kindergarten the way kindergarten was meant to be.

 

Go away, insecurity! My daughter is only five. She has many years ahead of her to do academics, but not much time left for that special magic of having only lived as many years as she has fingers on one hand.

[Lecka]

My kids are in public school.  My daughter is in Kindergarten.  They are working on learning to sound out words, and phonemic awareness.  She has just gotten to where she can sound out words (CVC) pretty reliably and smoothly (one word at a time).  Her little readers seem appropriate to me.  They only do a very few sight words.  

 

She is in the average reading group at her school.

 

But I think keep in mind, the other parents, public school parents, are also hearing these proud moms, and wondering, too, if their child is behind.  

 

B/c there are reading groups in Kindergarten, some kids are in the advanced group or whatever.  

 

I feel like it is no concern of mine.  

 

We do not have pushed-down 1st grade.... our parent nights often have the K teachers saying "hey, it is not like what you read about in all these posts on Facebook about how there is no recess anymore."  It is full-day, though.  I am not saying it is perfect, but in our state and region, we do not have this kind of K-is-the-new-1st-grade situation.  

 

But I do think -- the parents whose kids are just picking things up so quickly, do have a tendency to share it around.  They have no idea that it is not what other kids are doing, they are just so happy their child is learning so easily in front of their eyes.

 

But I have never had this experience of having a natural reader.  

 

My daughter has a late birthday, she turned 6 two months after Kindergarten started, too.  It is a good fit for her.  

 

But really -- I think hearing those bragging moms -- it is not like it is not bothering probably every other person in the room!  Not every kid in public school is doing all these advanced things!  The parents just brag.  

 

Somebody kind-of bragged to me today about his pre-school daughter, not meaning it as bragging.  He just didn't know that my kids did not just "start to pick up words" while they were in pre-school.  If you know what I mean!  But yeah, his pre-school daughter is picking up words in pre-school just from being read to.  I wonder how she would do in either public or homeschool Kindergarten, you know?  She is just one of those kids who picks it up easy.  

 

I really excuse myself from a lot of discussion now, or do not even hear it spoken around me, since I have a kid who has autism.  People seem to save my feelings a lot, it is nice.  But a lot of people just assume it is that easy for every other kid in the class who doesn't have obvious special needs.  They just do not know any better.  They have no idea.  

 

Nobody thought my oldest son might be struggling to learn to read.  Nobody at all.  It is quite a lonely feeling when other people are saying this kind of thing!  But I think that is why I like this forum!  

[PeterPan]

If you believe the observer at the ps, my ds whom they diagnosed with 3 SLDs, who slogs in Barton 3, who does Ronit Bird for math, walked into the ps K5 today and was gloriously brilliant, professor-like, and fit in easily with the academics.  So I think there must be some variation.  My guess it's it depends on the economics of the district.  ;)

[merry gardens]

My kids are in public school.  My daughter is in Kindergarten.  They are working on learning to sound out words, and phonemic awareness.  She has just gotten to where she can sound out words (CVC) pretty reliably and smoothly (one word at a time).  Her little readers seem appropriate to me.  They only do a very few sight words.  

 

She is in the average reading group at her school....

 

Lecka,

I feel really old, having gone to public school kindergarten several decades ago. It was half-day kindergarten, and in those few hours away from home, my kindergarten time included a daily nap.  We sang the alphabet song and worked with letters, in ways similar to what's in pre-school now. We didn't read stories--stories were read to us. There were no reading groups, no readers with CVC words--nothing of the sort! We did great art projects like making space-man helmets out of KF buckets, life-sized outlines of ourselves (I wore my favorite striped dress!), and repeated combinations of paint colors until the pretty colors all turns brown.  We sang and played and did art projects. That was kindergarten.

 

You, Elizabeth and the article described something far closer to my first grade experience. First grade--that was the FIRST place where we really worked on anything one would really consider academics. (Hence we used the word, "First".) Teachers first started formally teaching us to read in first grade, but it continued into second and even third grade. My memories of reading groups are from second grade. I have memories of my third grade teacher discussing "schwa" sounds. Absolutely nothing like reading groups or CVC readers used to happen in kindergarten.

[LaughingCat]

 

I feel really old, having gone to public school kindergarten several decades ago.

Really old is... there was no public school kindergarten when I was K age. :lol:  

 

FWIW I did go to a private half day K but I don't remember anything about it except where it was and that at recess they would give us each a half of those two stick popsicles that you could break in half (remember those??)

[Arcadia]

FWIW I did go to a private half day K but I don't remember anything about it except where it was and that at recess they would give us each a half of those two stick popsicles that you could break in half (remember those??)

I had that many times, the chocolate flavored twin popsicles, and I was born in the the 70s. I went to a catholic kindergarten which was very play based. I know we were taught five times table so as to read the clock.

[OneStepAtATime]

I remember the double Popsicles!  Yep, they broke them in half.

 

Honestly, I remember very little about Kinder except for the nuclear bomb drills where we hid under our desks and covered our heads.  I did 4k twice.  The first time I was too young.  The school let Mom put me in anyway, but my report card was mainly "She is very friendly."   :)  Second time we were in another state, I was a bit older, and even though there was a bit of structured learning, we honestly played quite a bit, listened to stories quite a bit, worked on social skills, etc.   It was fun.  Kinder we were in yet another location and I just don't really remember much about it.

 

1st grade was really fun.  I had a great teacher, Mrs. Johnson.  She was very loving and supportive.  She was also very encouraging.  I liked the academics we were doing, although I don't recall specifics at the moment.  I liked her class.  My only frustration was that we were separated into reading groups and I got put in a lower reading group even though I read all the time at home and loved reading.  I had not done well on some written test and so was placed in a lower reading group.  Drove me bananas since I was reading waaaaay beyond that group.  Other than that, I liked 1st grade.  My handwriting wasn't very good, but she never belittled me (unlike my 3rd grade teacher that stuck Messy Monkey stickers all over my papers). We had recess maybe twice a day, plus if we got all our regular work done, we could play board games in small groups at the end of the day.  

[SKL]

My KG was a mix.  It was a half day, but we did reading and worksheets including very basic arithmetic.  We had to help compose and then copy the KG contribution to the school newspaper, however often that came out (weekly or monthly).  It was a short paragraph.  But we also did a lot of that social play stuff, puzzles, snack, nap, and probably recess, all in a morning.

 

Honestly, I hated the social part of KG.  I didn't feel like playing house with my classmates.  I also had no love for wooden puzzles.  I got in a few tiffs with my teacher over it.  I was happy to read and write.

 

I do remember some kids being frustrated over reading, and some getting swatted with a ping-pong paddle if they failed at self-control.

[Lecka]

That is true.  I remember only learning letters of the alphabet for all of Kindergarten.

 

They are working on letters and letter sounds both from the beginning of the year, and do have sight words from early in the year, and are doing phonemic awareness leading up to blending for the whole year. 

 

My daughter does still have an art table where she can go and work on art projects.  They mix paint.  She did get to do an outline of her body and coler her clothes on. 

 

It is true, it is more than when I was in Kindergarten. 

 

It is also true, it is not like things I read about are happening in other districts and other parts of the country. 

 

What is hard here -- there is a large pre-school that is more academic than public school Kindergarten.  A lot of kids from there start Kindergarten already having covered a lot of the K reading --- and they need to do something, so they have their own reading groups.  I think it is desirable for those kids. 

 

I used to debate and debate my mother, when she said "she didn't teach reading" in Kindergarten and my older son couldn't be behind, that it was not possible to be behind in reading in Kindergarten.  Yet when I talked to her - - she did teach letters and letter sounds when she taught.  She did not do much on paper or with worksheets, but she said she had blow-up letters and kids would sing songs about them, she would say words and kids would say the beginning sound, all as part of a fun game or activity.  Well -- this is what my older son couldn't do in Kindergarten.  My mom just does not remember any kids having trouble with beginning sounds.  I don't know if she taught it well and so kids who would be at-risk now, just learned from her..... of if my son was on the severe side.  I still don't know. 

 

But I see my kids as having a nice atmosphere, lots of recess, lots of emphasis on playing and getting along, etc.  They do also have reading and math.  My daughter's reading is appropriate for her, and she is happy and happy with herself.  From things I read - -she would be in trouble in other locations.  My oldest son otoh was identified as at-risk while he was still in Kindergarten.  But I don't know what would have happened to him if he was in Kindergarten 40 years ago.  Since my father-in-law and my husband both had reading problems in school, I have assumed that he probably would have had trouble then, too. 

 

I think I would have liked to do more than match color words to colors in K, since I did already know how to read.  I was never bored, but I didn't get a lot out of the alphabet books we made as far as learning letters.  I am sure it helped me in other ways, and I liked it.  I think it would have been fine for me to be in a higher reading group, though.  I don't find myself wishing my kids had my exact experience. 

 

Edit:  I think it is true they have added more, but I don't think it is pushed-down 1st grade, either.  I think it is the old Kindergarten plus a little more.  But I personally had issues with being bored in school, not in Kindergarten, but in 2nd-5th grade I had a lot of trouble with being bored.  So I am happy to think that the more advanced kids are not getting bored. 

 

[Tsuga]

I could read in kindergarten and I remember not being allowed to sit and read. I didn't like the other kids. My kids are much better though the wee one only learns words in the foreign language.

 

Our report cards are all the same: At or above expectations, doesn't pay attention.

 

Yeah, because we're already above expectations for the grade level.

 

They do more sitting but they also do a lot of exploring, puzzles, singing and so on. Two recesses per day plus snack.

[LaughingCat]

We also had nap mats in first grade and the whole day was about 5 hours (through grade school).  Our local school is 7 hours and no naps for K much less 1st.   However, other than that I think our K matches Lecka's assessment of hers -- they are not doing 1st in K here.  They are not doing a play focused K either - but somewhere in between - focused on pre-reading skills -- sounds, rhyming, patterns etc.  but also lots of stories and fun activities and even lots of recess.

[Lecka]

My now-4th-grader's K teacher asked for a show of hands, whose kids still napped after lunch.  Nobody raised his/her hand.  She said, "well, we will just have quiet time then." 

 

My current kids -- one does have a nap time.  The other (I have twins) allows/encourages kids to lay down if they want (and if their parents want) but they don't have to lay down.  She said she does not wake kids up from their nap unless parents have asked her to wake them up. 

 

So -- I have one who lays down and rests on a mat.  I have one who doesn't lay down, but lights are dimmed and it is quiet for kids who do lay down and nap.  There is an expectation that kids are giving up their naps over the course of K. 

 

 

[Heathermomster]

DS napped in pre-k.  Technically, he didn't nap.  DS just laid there refusing to close his eyes because he felt that was lying since he wasn't tired.   :lol:

[Tiramisu]

I just talked to a friend who has older kids and now a son in K, so she's seen a big change. 

 

When her older kids were little in ps K, they were just learning the letters of the alphabet.  Now her youngest son has to write three full sentences for homework and is learning that each sentence should express a complete thought. He is completely confused and totally shutting down. 

[LatteMama]

In the 80's, kindergarten was all about "color, cut, and paste." And I guess we learned the alphabet. Ahhh... the good ole days!

[PeterPan]

I just talked to a friend who has older kids and now a son in K, so she's seen a big change. 

 

When her older kids were little in ps K, they were just learning the letters of the alphabet.  Now her youngest son has to write three full sentences for homework and is learning that each sentence should express a complete thought. He is completely confused and totally shutting down. 

So are people in that district redshirting a lot?  Seems like they'd have to.  Wow, three full sentences.  

[Tiramisu]

So are people in that district redshirting a lot?  Seems like they'd have to.  Wow, three full sentences.  

 

That's exactly what I first thought, and I think they are. Before I started to homeschool, I went in to sign up one dd for the kindergarten roundup. On the form above where I wrote dd's name and birth date I noticed there was another child with the same birthday but a year earlier.

 

My friend's son is on the older side for K.

 

My third grader doesn't like to write three sentences at a time. Since we're kinda-sorta starting to write paragraphs, she's just beginning to write that much at a time. She keeps her sentences short to avoid writing much, and usually one sentence in the paragraph is a single word sentence. I'm just happy to see progress so I'm giving her free rein with her stylistic devices. I'm sure if she were in ps, she'd find a way to manage but it would be very stressful, and she'd probably come home each day and either meltdown or go to sleep.

[KSinNS]

Got a new Ker coming along, so I've got skin in the game again. 

 

Here K is definitely more like Grade 1 when I was a kid. In my day, K was 1/2 day of colouring, naps, playtime, scissors and glue, and a few letters. Now K is reading, math, journalling, and a little free play.

 

My oldest was an early reader (he learned most of his oral language from reading), and he learned with very little teaching. But, my others have learned to read around age 7-which makes them very normal. Ditto with other stuff. My current kid starting K in the fall, shows little reading interest and readiness, and she doesn't have much fine motor skill, so I think I'm going to go old school with her K and teach her letters and numbers and work on fine motor stuff. I think so much at that age is developmental, like teaching them to walk. You can't hurry it. So why poison them on the subject, when they will get it in a year or two? Not to say that you shouldn't challenge the kids who get it early! I guess I figure we should honour the huge variation in kids at that age, and treat them differently depending on their developmental level rather than chronological age. Of course, that's really tough to do in a school rather than at home, though I suspect that's what all the redshirting is about. 

[Minerva]

I still feel a tightening in my chest whenever I read or hear what my kids "should" or "could" be doing in school. Just reading on the WTM boards a few weeks ago a post about "Could Your Child Read Before Kindergarten?" practically gave me heart palpitations. When my dd was little, we did a very relaxed kindergarten. I figured she would learn to read on her own time. Turns out her own time was never without serious intervention. I spent a lot of time feeling guilty for not pushing harder when she was younger since there is a lot of commentary out there that says early intervention for dyslexics is key.However, here comes little learner number two. He is obviously profoundly dyslexic, and guess what...pushing harder doesn't mean he is learning faster. Every single day I have to remind myself that inspiring my kids to want to learn is a more important job than trying to cram sight words into their heads, unfortunately that doesn't make me immune to the pressures of the outside world. Whenever I hear moms talking about their seven year old reading Magic Treehouse (or Harry Potter!) I have to plug my ears. I am truly happy for them (maybe a little jealous) but since I know this isn't a reality for my family I work really really hard at making our house full of joyful learning and our own individual timelines.  

[Lecka]

I read my son Magic Treehouse and Harry Potter!  He didn't miss out :)

 

My ending-K daughter is not writing any sentences.  She did write To Mom From E I Love You on her Mothers Day card, and that is the most writing that has come home from school this year.  It is up on the refrigerator now :)

 

I am really appalled by thinking of 3 sentences a day.  It is just..... I don't see how many kids could do it.  

 

My daughter took a lot of pride in the card she gave me, I don't see her having this joy and pride if she were getting pressured to churn out 3 sentences a day when she was really ready for writing I Love You, three weeks before summer vacation.  

 

I have a thing -- I don't want people to think that I send my kids to "that kind" of Kindergarten environment.  I do not like it, I am happy my area of the country has not succumbed to it, and I don't want people from the Internet to think I have my kids in that kind of place.  

 

I think it is a sweet, developmentally appropriate place, overall.  But sure -- it is not perfect, and it is not a fully individualized learning environment.  It is just not something that seems actively harmful to me, the way "3 sentences a day" does. But I don't know where my grandchildren will grow up someday -- I hope my kids will not think it is an okay place to send my future grandkids!  I hope they would consider homeschooling instead.  

[Terabith]

I'm still stuck on half day kindergarten having naps.  Who needs a nap in a half day program?  Well, maybe if it's an afternoon program?  I work in a preschool with two year olds half day and they don't nap.  They nap after lunch, when they go home. 

[Heathermomster]

DD attended a 3 hour Kinde class last year on Fridays with our cover and missed 4 consecutive weeks of indoor playtime because she wasn't completing her handwriting sheets in time.  I spoke with the teacher and corrected that.  DD still remembers missing the play time and speaks of it with disdain.  I took her to OT but only because of her brother.  As it turned out, DD absolutely needed the OT.  

 

Fast forward one year.  She turned 7 after Christmas and started writing sentences like mad in January.  Prior to January, she could think up all sorts of complicated sentences for me to scribe.  DD would even write stories in her Innotab with me helping her spell words as she hunted and pecked on the digital keyboard.  DD would have hated the classroom and been considered behind.  

 

I don't really remember Kindie.  I know that my dad didn't like it because my mom took a part-time job to pay for the private tuition.  Back then, public schools didn't offer public Kindie so I attended a half day Lutheran school.  I do recall 1st grade and it was fabulous.